hinsleburg

I think the problem for Palmer will be he plays in that 10/RW where we're very well stacked. I can't see Southgate dropping Bellingham deeper so your number 10 position is already filled. Rice Mainoo??? (This second holding position is a concern) Bellingham ??? Foden Kane Really only leaves the RW spot assuming Foden comes off the left wing, would be amazed if Southgate deviated away from Saka even though he's actually having a quiet few months! Think another issue with playing Palmer on the right is he's not going to run in behind Kane at all. With Kane being so effective dropping deep (I like that he does it) then you need players being able to run in behind which is what Saka offers. With somebody like Palmer there we would end up with 4 number 10's essentially and nobody stretching the opposition at all. Think Maddison will suffer with the same issue as Palmer and don't think you can take both, pre-christmas I'd have had Maddison in there all day despite Palmers form but he's not looked as sharp since his injury so wide open! Frustratingly, the answer is to trust Rice to hold by himself and play Bellingham as more of an 8 but I just can't see it happening! Still need to consider players like Bowen, Gordon, Grealish, Rashford, Eze and even somebody like Gibbs-White. Will be a lot of talent not going!

At what point does it become obstruction out of interest? Gordon has made no attempt for the ball and has prevented Phillips from getting there? If Gordon had touched the ball then I agree 100% penalty, but the above logic doesn't work as a player about to cross/shoot in clear control of the ball kicks a player who's attempted a tackle (and missed the ball) would be seen as a foul by the attacker?

If Zak Vyner is our most marketable asset that's a concern in itself! I don't even know where to start with this, don't see any logic or benefit whatsoever...

Clearly Dr Lansdown didn't want the players being 'deconditioned' during the International Break and advised that we just run for two weeks...

I think this post will go under the radar, but that properly tickled me!

I've gone for Tinnion as I think he would do more damage in charge of a summer transfer window than Manning... However, you could argue that them sacking Manning is 'learning on the job' and maybe accepting they've made a massive balls up and start again. Like I said, you could argue that, but you'd be wrong as they're too naive/stupid/proud and we will just begin the cycle again.

What scares me is if Manning goes it'll be Cisse, Mountain and Bell to the end of the season... Then we'll get 'Holdened', they'll get 3 year deals and we will find ourselves living the dream in league 1 once again. The concern for me, I can't think of any manager I would want that would be willing to work under this absolute shit show of a structure and organisation

No you referred to it as 'nonsense created to bash LM' which based on my post and subsequent response isn't true... But hey, keep on patronising

Wait, where on Earth have I mentioned Manning or implied it's anything to do with him!? I think ever since the club (which I think was Pearson to shatter your illusion I'm beating Manning with a stick) went public with a contract offer Conway has seemed more frustrated in terms of body language and attitude on the pitch and to some extent in his press interviews. The interviews have been a lot more guarded rather than full of excitement and enthusiasm like they were last season, even to some extent after the West Ham game too. A lot less comments about the club and how happy he is to be here... He's been clearly more frustrated with his team mates when he's not received passes after making runs or players make the wrong option! What else are we supposed to infer from that? 'Ah, Conway is annoyed that Williams has overhit another pass but maybe he's just frustrated with stuff away from football?' As I said, I don't think that's diminished his work rate at all and given he's isolated with no support who can blame him for being more frustrated? As you've mentioned Manning, it's clear he's not found a way to use Conway effectively and that's a really big issue right now, one of several piling up. But it's also not related to the contents of my post. Stop looking into agendas that aren't there and focus on the post, I wish I was subtle enough to infer and put things between the lines but I'm really not.

As a Father of a 6 year old boy who's hero is Tommy Conway I'm going to be gutted when he leaves in the summer. For those abusing him me and my Son were fortunate enough to meet him and I can honestly say I've never met and spoken to somebody so down to earth and normal. He made such an impact on my boy and whatever happens I'll always be grateful for that. To me, he seems frustrated and there does seem to be an acceptance from him in terms of body language that he'll be off but I wouldn't say that's diminished his work rate at all.

Could argue Leicester did this to some extent just not with a typical target man. The plan was always get the ball forward as quickly as possible to Vardy, from there he'd either run in behind and receive a pass or the ball would end up with Mahrez who would create something from nothing. They also had the 'busy' players in Albrighton and Okazaki permanently picking up 2nd balls. Was so effective and not sure will ever be replicated to that standard

I've said it before, but I don't understand why we're not using McCrorie aerially more. He's going to win most 50/50 balls against an opposition full back and we've got enough 'busy' players to pick up a second ball. The only difference is we're in the opposition half and not our own having played 16 Triangles, 48 passes and made about 4 yards before we end up losing it and having to battle for it back again. I appreciate it's not the way Manning wants to play but feels like we're just cutting our nose to spite our face

So I also sit in lower Lansdown and body language was a real concern. Just stood hands in pockets for most of the game, so uninspiring. We don't need somebody going mental for 90 minutes running up and down the touchline, but we do need some presence.

I've not read the whole thread but what stuck out for me today was a lack of fight. There had been such a culture shift within the club last few years and we had a squad of players who would outwork and outfight teams every week. I'm not on about being better physically but having the desire to win 2nd and 3rd balls, that same squad of players mentality has shifted overnight seemingly. Without getting into detail or old debates, I actually think Pearson and Rennie delivered one of the fittest squads I've ever seen and that includes mental fitness too. I'm not talking about injuries,but in terms of 90 minutes we went from whistle to whistle and didn't stop! I'm not qualified to discuss (or about as qualified as Lansdown I guess...) to discuss if this did have an impact on injuries or availability but I miss heading down to city knowing every individual would put a shift in and be accountable. We look sluggish, unmotivated and generally lacking ideas. I said earlier this week sack at end of season if no improvement, but today was enough for me. He should be gone by lunchtime but he won't be.

I think there needs to be a tangible improvement in the style and clear signs of Implementation even with the personnel that we've got. I do actually think there's been glimpses of improvement and spells in games where it seems to be working but largely our style of play has been ineffective. I appreciate it takes time to embed and implement and think the end of the season gives us enough time to assess and judge if there's enough there or if a change of tact is needed. Whilst the argument will be 'we can't keep changing plans' if it's not working with the 'Top 6 squad' we've got then ultimately it's not going to work at all. I'm not expecting us to be 2010 Barcelona but there should be consistent signs as a group and individually of methods working. This means the squad needs a 'tweak' in the summer and not a '3 window rebuild' as it undermines and contradicts everything the board has said previously. Maybe we're at the 'needs to get worse before it gets better stage' but it needs to start getting better by the end of the season, otherwise we're sleep walking into a season of, at absolute best, mediocrity.

Think Tommy will go in a cut price deal this summer to one of the relegated clubs. Can see him scoring 20 next season at this level in the right side and think someone will get a bargain as think we will cash in and it won't be a lot

Sorry I disagree. In the job he's in now he's arguably our most public senior figure given Jon's reluctance to come out. Therefore everything he does or says isn't just a reflection on him but also the club and quite frankly it's embarrassing at times. Not just spelling or grammar 'snobbery' but having social media tantrums and goading people. We need to forget about where he's succeeded (and failed arguably) and assess on the job he's doing right now. In my opinion the club governance and structure is a shambles and in his position he is very largely responsible for that.

Because most of us are in agreement that they're a midtable squad of players and are performing where we would expect. There's no lack of effort of endeavour there, we are just a young side full of inconsistency. Contrast that to the public messages coming out of the club and you think we've got a squad like 2008 Spain.

Without wishing to go back to this shape immediately, I think he'd look brilliant as the LCB of a back 3! Can see him transitioning to CB longer term as seems to have the right physical attributes to do it. I also get the feeling if we keep getting him minutes he'll get better and better with more match fitness. A back 4 of McCrorie, Vyner, Dickie, Roberts on Saturday certainly looks solid and seem to compliment each others attributes quite well. Tough problem to have as subject to a good game Saturday could argue deserves to keep his place ahead of Pring. Competition is well and good but need to manage it correctly, felt Cornick was harsh to be dropped for Tuesday but came on and made a good impact. But then do either Bell or Mehmeti deserve to get dropped after Tuesday's showing...? Somebody's going to be unhappy especially if Twine then comes back in as well (which I wouldn't agree with unless resting or dropping Knight deeper and playing him in the 10...) Starting to feel like a top half Championship squad but means nothing if it's not one at the start of next season

Apologies if it's been done to death on this thread but was VAR in use last night? Be interested in seeing the Forest goal from another angle and what part of the body it came off...

Weird one but could be smart depending on the fee... I've not listened to Mannings presa conference but the narrative on there suggested he was frustrated at a player not signing in time to play tomorrow. Implies another is due unless the terms of this deal were changed last minute to get it done

I think my concern is, this passing style right now isn't leading to loads of chances and opportunities. That's not to say it won't with slightly different personnel and time but not sure it's what we need right now. I guess the other argument is 'if not now then when'. I've been critical of the Twine signing without an option, we aren't going up or down and there's a strong chance we won't sign him end of season so see it as a waste. However, it would then be hypocritical of me to not allow the chance for this new style and approach to develop and embed. We look good in between both boxes but how do we convert that to goals? The answer is probably time coaching, patience and a slight personnel tweak so there isn't a better time for two of those things. I think personally, we've seen enough to give it a chance and get behind it. It's a really tough one, I think what I want to see would lead to more goals the next 6 months, would it lead to more over the next 12, arguably not!

If we are sticking with this formation for me our tactic for me has to be to hit the channels as quickly as we can and win the 2nd ball. In theory McCrorie and Pring will be aerially dominant over most full backs, seems a real waste to not to this and utilise numbers further forward. Means whoever plays in front of Pring/McCrorie (Twine and Sykes when fit?) can attack the 2nd ball and get it to Conway/Wells much quicker and in dangerous areas. It is a great escape route and way to get us up the pitch especially away from home, we won't do it as it's too direct for Manning's style but hopefully we can use it as a way to mix up our play and keep opposition teams guessing. For me, it's also quite exciting when we can get the ball forward quickly and efficiently, people bemoan 'route 1 football' but when done properly with a purpose it gets people off seats and can lead to goals without compromising defensively. Kind of went off on a tangent, I guess the point I was trying to make was I've been impressed with Ross and already adds a different dynamic to our game. Could see him thriving in a back 4!

Finally looks like we might be getting somebody playing closer to Conway!

Apologies, poor wording! More a case of, in my head I'm over thinking that every time he gets dropped or played well we won't end up signing him permanently as much as I want us to. All the noises suggest we definitely will but until he's permanent I can't bring myself to get attached