Red-Robbo Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Many Celtic fans have ancestors murdered by the British Army over the Centuries, my grandfathers Brother died in Gallipolli fighting for this country why his fellow countrymen were being executed without trial in kilmainham jail, i can fully understand why they wouldn't wear the poppy, (personally i'm down the Cenotaph every November) many 1000s of Irishmen died fighting for World peace and 99% do not support the IRA or the murder of Kids, you should not be so small minded. Er, I don't want to get involved in this thread really, but for the sake of historical accuracy I should point out that they did have trials - albeit military ones. I think 15 were executed in all - much fewer deaths than had said rising taken place in any of the Central Powers territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Er, I don't want to get involved in this thread really, but for the sake of historical accuracy I should point out that they did have trials - albeit military ones. I think 15 were executed in all - much fewer deaths than had said rising taken place in any of the Central Powers territory. Well said and agreed, we live in a glass house being Englishmen, not the wisest thing to start stoning people imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sglosbcfc Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 My family have holidayed all over Southern Ireland, are clearly British with broad Bristol accents and have never been anything other than warmly welcomed into pubs, cafes, restaurants etc. I think the majority of Irish accept mistakes made by the British in the past can't be held against Brits today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridge Batch Red Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Many Celtic fans have ancestors murdered by the British Army over the Centuries, my grandfathers Brother died in Gallipolli fighting for this country why his fellow countrymen were being executed without trial in kilmainham jail, i can fully understand why they wouldn't wear the poppy, (personally i'm down the Cenotaph every November) many 1000s of Irishmen died fighting for World peace and 99% do not support the IRA or the murder of Kids, you should not be so small minded. I'm small minded when you misunderstand my post? Ha. i'm talking about Celtic supporters. They sing pro IRA songs. The IRA kill children. Celtic fans hate poppies. I think that is bad. Hope that clears up your misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I'm small minded when you misunderstand my post? Ha. i'm talking about Celtic supporters. They sing pro IRA songs. The IRA kill children. Celtic fans hate poppies. I think that is bad. Hope that clears up your misunderstanding. I think you will find that the British (army/loyalist paramilitaries) have killed many more Irish/Catholic children over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Er, I don't want to get involved in this thread really, but for the sake of historical accuracy I should point out that they did have trials - albeit military ones. I think 15 were executed in all - much fewer deaths than had said rising taken place in any of the Central Powers territory. For the sake of historical history my point wasn't just the 15 who were executed for their part in the uprising because that is just a very small percentage of the 1000s murdered by the British army over a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I think you will find that the British (army/loyalist paramilitaries) have killed many more Irish/Catholic children over the years Seems to be a bit confused, that response. Loyalist paramilitaries - despite being born in Ireland - are "British" whereas Irish and Catholic are considered the same thing? Anyhoo, it's all getting a bit sectarian again so I'll just say poppies are remembering the dead in war, whatever their nationality or religion. They are also laid on the official cenotaph in the Republic of Ireland (and indeed sold there) and worn by the president during the Republic's remembrance day service at St Patrick's Cathedral. All of which makes Celtic's "Green Brigade" seem rather silly. (Of course, I realise that the "Green Brigade" do not represent the views of all Celtic fans.) Anyway, I have nothing against Celtic fans, Irishmen, Scots, Catholics or indeed Loyalists. We need to learn the mistakes of the past, not celebrate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftwingfullback Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 For the sake of historical history my point wasn't just the 15 who were executed for their part in the uprising because that is just a very small percentage of the 1000s murdered by the British army over a period of time. The problem is, were they viewed as terrorists by the British? It's like the Taliban and insurgents now. Should they be killed for fighting for what they think is right? Would it be acceptable for any people who are that way inclined to shout songs about it? Like the Muslim protesters at the march a few years back, or the ones that burn poppies. I think the answers no, yet when it comes to rangers and Celtic its acceptable? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTID 72 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 You need to work on your grammar, shocking!! As said by most sensible people there has been no evidence and after the police released a statement yesterday saying there was no such chant I think I shall believe them. Horrible rumour started by people I'm sure most will know who they support. Point scoring over such is vile and sick!! Mate it's a post on a football forum, not an application to Cambridge. The article you refer to says nothing of the sort. The title is entirely misleading, I suggest you read the whole thing. Following Rangers' visit to Bristol I didn't hear of any trouble or serious disorder so, assuming you're a City fan, would you rather have entertained scenes like these? https://www.youtube.com/embed/AiYmiCnzlFw Here's another article from the Hounslow, Heston & Whitton Chronicle. http://www.hounslowchronicle.co.uk/west-london-news/local-hounslow-news/2013/07/24/bees-chief-sorry-for-celtic-bad-behaviour-109642-33650072/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 For the sake of historical history my point wasn't just the 15 who were executed for their part in the uprising because that is just a very small percentage of the 1000s murdered by the British army over a period of time. Sorry when were thousands murdered? In 1916? During the Irish war of independence? In 'the Troubles'? I'm not arguing for Imperialism by any means, but the only time I can think of thousands of civillians massacred was during the Irish Confederate Wars (1641-52) - a life-or-death sectarian struggle to reassert English control over Ireland with the ultimate aim of neutralising the threat of invasion of England by the forces loyal to the Stuart dynasty and their Catholic European backers. Both Catholics and Protestants were massacred then in ways that are entirely typical of 17th Century siege warfare - if you didn't surrender the entire garrison was put to the sword basically. You have to realise that Parliament's motives - its sectarianism in a way - was to ensure a Catholic king did not gain power in England and institute what they had seen the Inquisition do in Spain, Italy, hungary, Poland and elsewhere - burn Protestants at the stake. It really was a life or death struggle. Which... is all a long way from football, 2013 and everyday life in this country. There are some cracking Irish history books carrying reassessments of Cromwell's Irish campaign out in the last few years, incidentally. Well worth a read if like me, you love the past, and have Irish ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Seems to be a bit confused, that response. Loyalist paramilitaries - despite being born in Ireland - are "British" whereas Irish and Catholic are considered the same thing? Anyhoo, it's all getting a bit sectarian again so I'll just say poppies are remembering the dead in war, whatever their nationality or religion. They are also laid on the official cenotaph in the Republic of Ireland (and indeed sold there) and worn by the president during the Republic's remembrance day service at St Patrick's Cathedral. All of which makes Celtic's "Green Brigade" seem rather silly. (Of course, I realise that the "Green Brigade" do not represent the views of all Celtic fans.) Anyway, I have nothing against Celtic fans, Irishmen, Scots, Catholics or indeed Loyalists. We need to learn the mistakes of the past, not celebrate them. Sorry RR, don't understand your first sentence, in the North protestants/loyalists consider the north as British land so are British while Catholics/Nationalists consider it as Irish land so are Irish and in all honesty i have never seen poppys being sold in the Republic where i have lived and visited too many times to count, agree with your comments about learning from the past which a massive majority on the Island are trying to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Sorry RR, don't understand your first sentence, in the North protestants/loyalists consider the north as British land so are British while Catholics/Nationalists consider it as Irish land so are Irish and in all honesty i have never seen poppys being sold in the Republic where i have lived and visited too many times to count, agree with your comments about learning from the past which a massive majority on the Island are trying to do. Well, we won't quibble on semantics but say Amen to your last sentiments Harry. :-) Sectarian divides belong in the dark and very distant past. Look at Syria (etc) to see where they get a nation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Sorry when were thousands murdered? In 1916? During the Irish war of independence? In 'the Troubles'? I'm not arguing for Imperialism by any means, but the only time I can think of thousands of civillians massacred was during the Irish Confederate Wars (1641-52) - a life-or-death sectarian struggle to reassert English control over Ireland with the ultimate aim of neutralising the threat of invasion of England by the forces loyal to the Stuart dynasty and their Catholic European backers. Both Catholics and Protestants were massacred then in ways that are entirely typical of 17th Century siege warfare - if you didn't surrender the entire garrison was put to the sword basically. You have to realise that Parliament's motives - its sectarianism in a way - was to ensure a Catholic king did not gain power in England and institute what they had seen the Inquisition do in Spain, Italy, hungary, Poland and elsewhere - burn Protestants at the stake. It really was a life or death struggle. Which... is all a long way from football, 2013 and everyday life in this country. There are some cracking Irish history books carrying reassessments of Cromwell's Irish campaign out in the last few years, incidentally. Well worth a read if like me, you love the past, and have Irish ancestors. Don't need any more books about Irish history thanks, i already have shelf loads, also my Irish history degree provides me with a little knowledge! of course i'm not justt talking about the various campaigns of the 20th Century but over a much longer period of time and don't even get me started about the way so many were left to starve to death during the famine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well, we won't quibble on semantics but say Amen to your last sentiments Harry. :-) Sectarian divides belong in the dark and very distant past. Look at Syria (etc) to see where they get a nation! No more quibbling RR, good to talk to someone who has a genuine knowledge of the situation though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 So the Celtic fans DIDN'T sing about Lee Rigby? Should I hold my breath waiting for an apology from those who made up this lie? Probably not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 So the Celtic fans DIDN'T sing about Lee Rigby? Should I hold my breath waiting for an apology from those who made up this lie? Probably not You'll be waiting a long time mate, facts and the truth are distant cousins to many on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTID 72 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 So the Celtic fans DIDN'T sing about Lee Rigby? Should I hold my breath waiting for an apology from those who made up this lie? Probably not Is your first line a question or a statement? Either way your sanctimonious second line is a disturbingly arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Is your first line a question or a statement? Either way your sanctimonious second line is a disturbingly arrogant. Well, given that it's followed by a question mark, the first paragraph is probably a question. Judging by your reply, the second may be sanctimonious and arrogant, but is certainly true. BTW Does RTID = Rangers Til I Die? Just asking, like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTID 72 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Well, given that it's followed by a question mark, the first paragraph is probably a question. Judging by your reply, the second may be sanctimonious and arrogant, but is certainly true. BTW Does RTID = Rangers Til I Die? Just asking, like... Then the entire post in question is nonsensical. You're clearly unconvinced the song was sung, and yet feel people owe you an apology. Yes it does, I make no claims of impartiality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 You'll be waiting a long time mate, facts and the truth are distant cousins to many on here. That's rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Then the entire post in question is nonsensical. You're clearly unconvinced the song was sung, and yet feel people owe you an apology. Yes it does, I make no claims of impartiality. I don't deserve or want an apology. Celtic fans might. I'm a little surprised by your interpretation of RTID, though, I would have thought CTID was more appropriate to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy31 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Police deny Celtic fans sang Lee Rigby songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Rangers till I Die 72...... Who knew that the Rockleaze boys got that kind of support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hortonred Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Don't need any more books about Irish history thanks, i already have shelf loads, also my Irish history degree provides me with a little knowledge! of course i'm not justt talking about the various campaigns of the 20th Century but over a much longer period of time and don't even get me started about the way so many were left to starve to death during the famine. Well from reading your posts , those Irish history books certainly don't seem to worry much about balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTID 72 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 I don't deserve or want an apology. Celtic fans might. I'm a little surprised by your interpretation of RTID, though, I would have thought CTID was more appropriate to this forum. Now you're contradicting yourself. If you feel celtc fans deserve an apology you could always visit one of their forums and offer one. My interpretation of RTID is exactly the same as yours so I fail to understand your surprise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTID 72 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Police deny Celtic fans sang Lee Rigby songs See my earlier post mate. Read the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy31 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 See my earlier post mate. Read the article. Just did. "The Chronicle asked the police whether any complaints had been made regarding these allegations and if an investigation was taking place. A spokesman confirmed no allegations of any offensive songs or chanting had been received and added if anyone knew of any specific incidents they should report them to police immediately." So, there are allegations on twitter and on some internet forums, but no reports in reputable media and no complaints to the police. No one, as far I can see, has denied that there was bad behaviour from the Celtic fans, which included pitch invasions and setting off smoke-bombs. This is what your links demonstrate. This thread was started based on the accusation that in addition to this, they sang abhorrent songs about the death of Lee Rigby. I believe that it has been shown that THIS accusation is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 So why on the Celtic forum did other Celtic fans say that there was chanting of a disgusting an obscene manor re Lee Rigby. The police are rarely correct, unless of course you want them to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftwingfullback Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Why is everyone saying about lee rigby, while glossing over the ira songs? It's like, they didnt sing about rigby, everyone's out to get Celtic, without people condoning the ira songs. It's like its acceptable to see pro terrorist songs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy31 Posted July 26, 2013 Report Share Posted July 26, 2013 Why is everyone saying about lee rigby, while glossing over the ira songs? It's like, they didnt sing about rigby, everyone's out to get Celtic, without people condoning the ira songs. It's like its acceptable to see pro terrorist songs You want me to condone people singing pro-IRA songs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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