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#1 Eco

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:02 AM

Did it overstep the mark in it's hatchet job on Ralph Miliband ?






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#2 Barrs Court Red

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:00 AM

Had it been, say the Guardian or Mirror, would you care?
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#3 nebristolred

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:30 AM

If it was the Mirror, yes. If it was the Guardian, yes, but not so much. The difference being that the Guardian, the Independent, etc, while biased, sell it as news, whereas the tabloids sell it purely for the drama and the tittle tattle that the relevant news brings. It really is about time we regulate the press properly.



#4 chipdawg

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 09:22 AM

Massively- not so much in the fact that a paper that supported Franco in the Spanish Civil War and Hitler until the eve of World War 2 (when Viscount Rothersmere continued to complain that we couldn't have allied with the Germans pretty much until they started bombing London), but because the language used in both the original piece harked back to the days of McCarthyism, the Stalinist pogroms against the Marxists, Franco's 'White Terror', etc. In recent history, people have died because of articles written in those terms. I'm not for a moment saying that that would happen today or that The Mail would be directly responsible if such a thing happened, but a line was crossed in my opinion

The difference with The Guardian or The Independent and probably to a lesser extent The Mirror, is that they wouldn't go after someone on those terms- they might accuse David Cameron's father of being a facist (he wasn't as far as I'm aware) but it would be done as investigative journalism rather than a rabble rousing piece predicated on a few lines of an adolescent diary and a political outlook

Even worse that Paul Dacre would write that editorial about a man who served in the Royal Navy for much of WW2 while his own father stayed behind in London to be a 'show business reporter'...

#5 MichaelRobartes

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:03 AM

My local newsagent has offered me the mail for free a few times (I assume that it, mercifully, doesn't sell well around here). I always reply 'no thanks, it's racist/fascist/a rag' or similar. It's funny because it's true.


"The lame will come here and walk, they'll be selling water here, because this defies logic."
George Hook after Munster’s historic defeat of Gloucester 33-6 in the Heineken Cup.

 

O'Gara with the drop at goal has gone between the posts! Ronan O'Gara between the posts! After about 145 phases! O'Gara between the posts! The referee has blown the full-time whistle, Northampton have been absolutely kicked where it hurts most! Munster at the death, Munster with the victory, Northampton are devastated! They might have been brilliant for eight and a half matches, they were fantastic for 79 minutes and 50-odd seconds maybe 85 seconds! Munster, after a hundred thousand phases, O'Gara with the drop at goal, they've beaten Northampton by two points, incredible!

Michael Corcoran after Munster's last ditch 23-21 defeat of Northampton in the Heineken Cup.

 

Oh ye of little faith. Rolling back the years in vintage fashion, Munster defied their own recent formline, the odds, the Gods, the tea leaves and perhaps even the fears of many of their most diehard fans in yesterday's stirring Heineken Cup quarter-final at the Stoop to eclipse Harlequins.

Gerry Thornley after Munster's 18-12 Heineken Cup quarter-final victory against Harlequins.


#6 Esmond Million's Bung

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

Milliband has put his father out there, unfortunately in a way the modern politician do, how many times have we heard the bollox from a UK politician "I remember my father' this and that and how "my father shaped my political view of the world", so for me if his fathers political views are that important to Milliband that he remorselessly bangs on about it, then the public are entitled to know how a guy who shaped the political views of a man who might become the next prime minister.


The Sage's Natural Overleaves

Sages want the eyes of the world to be focused upon them. They love to be the center of attention, and to be in the limelight. They desire to be suave, polished, classy, and graceful in their behavior. Sages can be very much into loving themselves. They want everything coming in to them, and nothing going out. They often use, exploit, and manipulate other people in order to get what they want. In a manner of speaking, Sages view themselves as the center of the universe. That is, they are very subjective about everything — they consider how events in their lives relate to themselves personally: "What does this mean to me? How does this affect me?"

At an extreme, Sages tend to live in their own dreamy fantasy world. Sages often fall prey to their own imaginations, and are victims of their own delusions. They have a hard time facing reality. They are prone to think that the real world works like their imaginary world. Obviously this can get them into trouble when this proves not to be the case.



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#7 MichaelRobartes

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:22 PM

But the mail have misrepresented his old man's beliefs. They're making him out to be some sort of Stalinist apologist, clearly demonstrating that they've never read any of his publications in the process. Mud-throwing is one thing, but to describe him as having an 'evil legacy' is, quite frankly, outrageous.

"The lame will come here and walk, they'll be selling water here, because this defies logic."
George Hook after Munster’s historic defeat of Gloucester 33-6 in the Heineken Cup.

 

O'Gara with the drop at goal has gone between the posts! Ronan O'Gara between the posts! After about 145 phases! O'Gara between the posts! The referee has blown the full-time whistle, Northampton have been absolutely kicked where it hurts most! Munster at the death, Munster with the victory, Northampton are devastated! They might have been brilliant for eight and a half matches, they were fantastic for 79 minutes and 50-odd seconds maybe 85 seconds! Munster, after a hundred thousand phases, O'Gara with the drop at goal, they've beaten Northampton by two points, incredible!

Michael Corcoran after Munster's last ditch 23-21 defeat of Northampton in the Heineken Cup.

 

Oh ye of little faith. Rolling back the years in vintage fashion, Munster defied their own recent formline, the odds, the Gods, the tea leaves and perhaps even the fears of many of their most diehard fans in yesterday's stirring Heineken Cup quarter-final at the Stoop to eclipse Harlequins.

Gerry Thornley after Munster's 18-12 Heineken Cup quarter-final victory against Harlequins.


#8 chipdawg

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

Milliband has put his father out there, unfortunately in a way the modern politician do, how many times have we heard the bollox from a UK politician "I remember my father' this and that and how "my father shaped my political view of the world", so for me if his fathers political views are that important to Milliband that he remorselessly bangs on about it, then the public are entitled to know how a guy who shaped the political views of a man who might become the next prime minister.

But the point is the public don't know any more about Ralph Milliband than they did before because all the Mail did was print a load of baseless rhetoric based on a couple of lines (none of which even came close to saying "i hate Britain) in a 17 year olds diary. This is a 17 year old who went on to fight in this countries armed forces against a murderous regime that the paper owned and edited by the current owners great grandfather had supported until mid 1939

But even aside from the validity of the content of the article, the language was clearly designed to inflame opinion and cause upset. There was no journalistic value in the piece whatsoever- it revealed nothing of either Milliband, even disregarding the fact that Ed has said on many occasions that he and his fathers politics diverge quite significantly

I don't like Ed Milliband and certainly won't be voting for his party next time round, but there is nothing defensible in that article in my opinion

#9 Esmond Million's Bung

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:06 PM

But the point is the public don't know any more about Ralph Milliband than they did before because all the Mail did was print a load of baseless rhetoric based on a couple of lines (none of which even came close to saying "i hate Britain) in a 17 year olds diary. This is a 17 year old who went on to fight in this countries armed forces against a murderous regime that the paper owned and edited by the current owners great grandfather had supported until mid 1939

But even aside from the validity of the content of the article, the language was clearly designed to inflame opinion and cause upset. There was no journalistic value in the piece whatsoever- it revealed nothing of either Milliband, even disregarding the fact that Ed has said on many occasions that he and his fathers politics diverge quite significantly

I don't like Ed Milliband and certainly won't be voting for his party next time round, but there is nothing defensible in that article in my opinion

 

Fine then if you are correct Milliband should sue, surely no court in the land wouldn't come down on his side.

 

and from one of his own.

 

http://blogs.telegra...uiet-about-him/


Edited by Esmond Million's Bung, 03 October 2013 - 04:10 PM.

The Sage's Natural Overleaves

Sages want the eyes of the world to be focused upon them. They love to be the center of attention, and to be in the limelight. They desire to be suave, polished, classy, and graceful in their behavior. Sages can be very much into loving themselves. They want everything coming in to them, and nothing going out. They often use, exploit, and manipulate other people in order to get what they want. In a manner of speaking, Sages view themselves as the center of the universe. That is, they are very subjective about everything — they consider how events in their lives relate to themselves personally: "What does this mean to me? How does this affect me?"

At an extreme, Sages tend to live in their own dreamy fantasy world. Sages often fall prey to their own imaginations, and are victims of their own delusions. They have a hard time facing reality. They are prone to think that the real world works like their imaginary world. Obviously this can get them into trouble when this proves not to be the case.



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#10 Davros

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

I can't stand the mail or Ed they deserve each other.

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#11 chipdawg

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

 
Fine then if you are correct Milliband should sue, surely no court in the land wouldn't come down on his side.
 
and from one of his own.
 
http://blogs.telegra...uiet-about-him/

You can't libel the dead- how would you prove in court whether he did or did not 'Hate Britain'?

I kind of agree with that link, but I don't object to the Mail writing about his father- he's a frontline politician, you take the rough with the smooth in that respect- it's the tone of the article, the terminology used and the fact that, at the end of the day, there is nothing more than conjecture and f-all substance in that article. They're not trying to discredit Ed Milliband, they're trying to discredit his dead, war-hero father. A fantastic advertisement for self regulating media...

#12 The Kaiser

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:46 PM

Very popular paper around where i live.

Ive always bought it and do out of habit niw.

#13 Mr Mosquito

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 05:52 PM

The Daily Mail is a great newspaper, there always seem to be pictures of Uncle Adolf and Uncle Joe Stalin and Edward and Mrs Simpson in that newspaper. :P



#14 Eco

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:27 PM

Very popular paper around where i live.

Ive always bought it and do out of habit niw.

The Mail popular in the heart of Toryland, surely not ?! 



#15 Mr Mosquito

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 06:41 PM

The Mail popular in the heart of Toryland, surely not ?! 

 

....as opposed to being unpopular in the Ed Milipede household. :cool:



#16 The Kaiser

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:11 PM

The Mail popular in the heart of Toryland, surely not ?!


Come now, we are not the heartland.
Thats more Buckinghamshire.

We're South Oxfordshire this side of the river. A bit more centrist in outlook....

#17 Aizoon

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:38 PM

Curious that the Stalinists probably had no more dedicated enemy than Ralph Milliband. But then that's a bit subtle for the Daily Blackshirt.

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#18 Red-Robbo

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:48 PM

Milliband has put his father out there, unfortunately in a way the modern politician do, how many times have we heard the bollox from a UK politician "I remember my father' this and that and how "my father shaped my political view of the world", so for me if his fathers political views are that important to Milliband that he remorselessly bangs on about it, then the public are entitled to know how a guy who shaped the political views of a man who might become the next prime minister.


But Miliband hasn't remorselessly banged on about it. In fact he's always gone out of his way to point out that he has never agreed with his father's politics.

#19 chipdawg

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:57 PM

Curious that the Stalinists probably had no more dedicated enemy than Ralph Milliband. But then that's a bit subtle for the Daily Blackshirt.

Indeed. And a Marxist such as RM would have been despised by the Stalinists. But of to the Mail, I imagine that a Red is a Red

#20 King Carrot

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 09:20 PM

Daily Mail? No thanks - piss poor journalism.

#21 Esmond Million's Bung

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 01:34 PM

But Miliband hasn't remorselessly banged on about it. In fact he's always gone out of his way to point out that he has never agreed with his father's politics.

 

They all do it these days, 'my father/parents made me what I am today', look at Brown couldn't shut up about the values his father instilled him, so being a foul tempered misogynist was that part of the values Gordon?.


The Sage's Natural Overleaves

Sages want the eyes of the world to be focused upon them. They love to be the center of attention, and to be in the limelight. They desire to be suave, polished, classy, and graceful in their behavior. Sages can be very much into loving themselves. They want everything coming in to them, and nothing going out. They often use, exploit, and manipulate other people in order to get what they want. In a manner of speaking, Sages view themselves as the center of the universe. That is, they are very subjective about everything — they consider how events in their lives relate to themselves personally: "What does this mean to me? How does this affect me?"

At an extreme, Sages tend to live in their own dreamy fantasy world. Sages often fall prey to their own imaginations, and are victims of their own delusions. They have a hard time facing reality. They are prone to think that the real world works like their imaginary world. Obviously this can get them into trouble when this proves not to be the case.



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#22 Red-Robbo

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 02:24 PM

 

They all do it these days, 'my father/parents made me what I am today', look at Brown couldn't shut up about the values his father instilled him, so being a foul tempered misogynist was that part of the values Gordon?.

 

I guess so, but my point is that the Miliband Bros actively seek to draw a line between their Marxist dad and their own, Social Democratic at best, beliefs.



#23 King Carrot

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:16 PM

 
They all do it these days, 'my father/parents made me what I am today', look at Brown couldn't shut up about the values his father instilled him, so being a foul tempered misogynist was that part of the values Gordon?.


They all do it these days?? People have slways talked about their dead parents in a postive light. Who else do we get our values from? The ******* ice cream van man? The bell ends that write for the daily mail?

#24 Mr Mosquito

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 05:53 PM

They all do it these days?? People have slways talked about their dead parents in a postive light. Who else do we get our values from? The ******* ice cream van man? The bell ends that write for the daily mail?

 

I got my values from my Grandparents, our Dad especially certainly was not a good role model.



#25 Esmond Million's Bung

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

They all do it these days?? People have slways talked about their dead parents in a postive light. Who else do we get our values from? The ******* ice cream van man? The bell ends that write for the daily mail?

 

Another treacle covered piece of Americanism that Blair and his advisors inflicted upon us.


The Sage's Natural Overleaves

Sages want the eyes of the world to be focused upon them. They love to be the center of attention, and to be in the limelight. They desire to be suave, polished, classy, and graceful in their behavior. Sages can be very much into loving themselves. They want everything coming in to them, and nothing going out. They often use, exploit, and manipulate other people in order to get what they want. In a manner of speaking, Sages view themselves as the center of the universe. That is, they are very subjective about everything — they consider how events in their lives relate to themselves personally: "What does this mean to me? How does this affect me?"

At an extreme, Sages tend to live in their own dreamy fantasy world. Sages often fall prey to their own imaginations, and are victims of their own delusions. They have a hard time facing reality. They are prone to think that the real world works like their imaginary world. Obviously this can get them into trouble when this proves not to be the case.



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#26 chipdawg

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

 
Another treacle covered piece of Americanism that Blair and his advisors inflicted upon us.

I'be always been a fan of my parents and their world view, I kind of pity you if you don't feel similarly about yours

#27 chipdawg

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

Double post

Edited by chipdawg, 04 October 2013 - 10:21 PM.


#28 Mr Mosquito

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 10:51 PM

I'be always been a fan of my parents and their world view, I kind of pity you if you don't feel similarly about yours

 

My Dad had Army friends killed in Aden, not sure that was why the way he was but he hated just about everyone. Still, what conflict has lowlife warmonger Tony Blair's familiy ever served in ?????!!!!!!! Lowlife lawyer Tony Blair is very keen to start wars but I haven't noticed any evidence of his kith and kin ever fighting in any war.



#29 King Carrot

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:50 PM

 
Another treacle covered piece of Americanism that Blair and his advisors inflicted upon us.

Honor thy father and thy mother?

#30 Esmond Million's Bung

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:36 AM

I'be always been a fan of my parents and their world view, I kind of pity you if you don't feel similarly about yours

 

As I have already said, Gormless Brown was always banging on about how he inherited his fathers values and that's why we should trust him, we now know Brown was a misogynist with anger issues, I pity him far more because he has pretty much trashed his fathers influence in a pathetic bid to show a disbelieving public he could be trusted.

 

Honor thy father and thy mother?


The Sage's Natural Overleaves

Sages want the eyes of the world to be focused upon them. They love to be the center of attention, and to be in the limelight. They desire to be suave, polished, classy, and graceful in their behavior. Sages can be very much into loving themselves. They want everything coming in to them, and nothing going out. They often use, exploit, and manipulate other people in order to get what they want. In a manner of speaking, Sages view themselves as the center of the universe. That is, they are very subjective about everything — they consider how events in their lives relate to themselves personally: "What does this mean to me? How does this affect me?"

At an extreme, Sages tend to live in their own dreamy fantasy world. Sages often fall prey to their own imaginations, and are victims of their own delusions. They have a hard time facing reality. They are prone to think that the real world works like their imaginary world. Obviously this can get them into trouble when this proves not to be the case.



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#31 nebristolred

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 09:59 AM

 

Another treacle covered piece of Americanism that Blair and his advisors inflicted upon us.

 

The vast majority of us gain our influences and values from the people that raised us, be it our parents or grandparents. I'd dearly love to know how this is "Americanism", as opposed to normal human upbringing.



#32 Red-Robbo

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 11:50 AM

 

My Dad had Army friends killed in Aden, not sure that was why the way he was but he hated just about everyone. Still, what conflict has lowlife warmonger Tony Blair's familiy ever served in ?????!!!!!!! Lowlife lawyer Tony Blair is very keen to start wars but I haven't noticed any evidence of his kith and kin ever fighting in any war.

 

Blair's father was on active service in WWII and - quite surprisingly - was a communist like Ralph Miliband, before becoming a Tory as he rose through the social ranks.

 

Read about him here:  http://www.theguardi...blair.politics4



#33 Esmond Million's Bung

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 12:55 PM

 

The vast majority of us gain our influences and values from the people that raised us, be it our parents or grandparents. I'd dearly love to know how this is "Americanism", as opposed to normal human upbringing.

 

of course we do I am not denying that, but I suspect you and I are not in the public eye and on this forum we are forever telling each other how are fathers, mothers and other relatives shaped our love of BCFC.

 

Maggie was the first politician in this country to use her parents as credentials as to her working class roots, which is something American politicians have been doing for many, many years (like baby kissing) and it has become endemic in British politics. Brown's use of it was laughable, banging on about it makes you vulnerable to this type of attack baseless or not and given that Ed has set off down a path where he is not only taking on the Murdoch press (having been in bed with them up until the last election) he now wants a war with the DM, well good luck to him.


The Sage's Natural Overleaves

Sages want the eyes of the world to be focused upon them. They love to be the center of attention, and to be in the limelight. They desire to be suave, polished, classy, and graceful in their behavior. Sages can be very much into loving themselves. They want everything coming in to them, and nothing going out. They often use, exploit, and manipulate other people in order to get what they want. In a manner of speaking, Sages view themselves as the center of the universe. That is, they are very subjective about everything — they consider how events in their lives relate to themselves personally: "What does this mean to me? How does this affect me?"

At an extreme, Sages tend to live in their own dreamy fantasy world. Sages often fall prey to their own imaginations, and are victims of their own delusions. They have a hard time facing reality. They are prone to think that the real world works like their imaginary world. Obviously this can get them into trouble when this proves not to be the case.



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