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Nelson Mandela


Roger Red Hat

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Of course the greater outcome was positive but you cannot praise somebody who shed the blood of innocents in the process, without being called up on it.

 

Fair enough, if all we're doing is reminding ourselves that violence was used in resisting the opressors, then I don't have a problem with that.

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Ok you win, he DIDN'T co-found that group and they DIDN'T commit terrorist acts (sorry, didn't fight for freedom).

 

Congratulations, you just changed history!

No, you're the one changing history.  Presumably you also find the actions of the French resistance and various other resistance movements of the 2nd world war unjustifiable too?

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Nelson - a great, great person, and a massive loss to humanity.

 

On a lighter note:

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCZKZlLvE70

 

 

Now, it's a pretty grotty choice, I admit,  but I would take the backing singer on the right - if you forced me to choose.

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Well, they have certainly be wheeling out all the great and good today, to pay tribute. Including Lord Tebbitt, paying tribute to the Thatcher government's principled and tough stance back then - including correctly labelling Mandela a tourist, and continuing to do business with the white, minority rule Afrikaans chaps - and insisting this was instrumental in bringing peaceful change in South Africa. Well done, Norman! Still fighting! They couldn't have done it without some old white blokes in London - here, here!

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Yes in South Africa but not in England. He is not from this country and had very little to do with us.

Not so sure about that, KC. Remember, Mandela appeared on the popular television programme where you get your garden all spruced up when you're away for the weekend, and it's all a surprise when you come home! Starring Alan Titmarch, a big bloke from Essex, and a ginger bird not wearing a bra. You might have seen it before. Of course, Mandela was "away" for a bit longer than a weekend, but would you believe it (!) they still had a mad rush to get it finished on time. I think Mandela was chuffed that his absence from home was not for nothing. And not a little bit overwhelmed. At the very least, overwhelmed by the ginger bird who forgot to pack everything for the trip....

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What has he got to do with English football?

Well how deep do you want to go ? I'll start by saying I'd imagine a lot of black players, for instance, are inspired by him. Anyway why should English football be so insular ?

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Sadly since he left South African politics, the country is on the slippery slope to becoming yet another failed and corrupt African state.

Yep, unfortunately his ANC party are corrupt to the core and have made many black South Africans poorer than they were under apartheid, even if they are free.

 

Unfortunately I think this can stem back to the acceptance of money from various bad sources which led to many party becoming drunk with the thought of power and money. 

 

I don't think Mandela agreed with this but I not sure he ever distanced himself from it, and to my knowledge never criticised his party for the way it was run making his fight for racial equality and rights for Black south Africans a little hollow. Unfortunately his South Africa is now more corrupt, and money grabbing at the highest level,than it ever has been.  Brutality towards blacks by the government is just as bad as it has ever been, but is massively over looked.

 

I am all for the good will towards Mandela,but I don't think his legacy will be as great as the ideals he stood for.

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