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Ched Evans


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I think it is a semantics issue you've brought up because in reality the 150,000 signatures haven't signed to specifically prevent him from playing for Sheffield United (although I fully appreciate that you are correct in both the wording of the petition itself and who it was addressed to).  Clearly the issue for the vast majority of those 150,000 is with Ched Evans returning to football at all, not just to Sheffield United.  

Regarding Mark Wahlberg, it was more an evidence of how different people will have different views rather than a direct comparison, I take your point about repentance, although feel it should be noted that in Wahlberg's case this was done a long time after the crime (and his career taking off).  Not only that but due to the nature of the crime rape is the only crime in which you can be convicted based on one person's testimony.  I'm not going to debate whether innocent/guilty, but I would pose the hypothetical:  would you take responsibility and apologise if you were wrongfully accused of rape?

The rest I think we're more or less in agreement, although block may have been a more appropriate word than ban on my part.  while you're right that nobody has banned him from playing there is clearly a distinction to be made between theory and practice.  In practice these complaints make it very difficult for any club to make a positive case to sign Ched Evans.

 

Firstly, Evans hasn't simply been accused of rape, rightfully or wrongfully.  He has been convicted of rape and, whether he feels that was right or wrong, it was based on a lot of more than one person's testimony.  (In fact, in this case, the victim's testimony, which my understanding is that the defence do not dispute. is that she cannot remember what happened.)  The conviction was based on testimonies from Evans, his friend , hotel staff and countless others, CCTV, forensic evidence and a host of other things. Juries do make mistakes but I think it's important to challenge the myth from Evans supporters that he's been convicted at random based on little more than hearsay.

 

In terms  of whether I'd apologise, it's difficult to know without being in the situation, save to say that I like to think I would not set up a website asking the public to judge for themselves based on a one-sided inaccurate view of the case and peddled myths about rape victims.  And I like to think, if I wasn't going to apologise for the damage I did to the victim, I wouldn't instead do a phoney apology for PR purposes that failed to even grasp what I was supposed to be apologising for.  The simple fact is that, even if Evans were innocent, there is still a young girl who went out for the night, got drunker than she expected, blacked out, and then found out after the event that people had sex with her and she had no idea about that.  And that girl has had to move five times due to strangers threatening her over that on Evans' behalf.  And, even if Evans is innocent, the simple facts of the case accepted by both sides are that this has nothing to do with her having made false accusations.  They're due to her simply not being able to remember what happened and wanting to find out - it was the police, the Crown Prosecution Service and ultimately the jury who concluded, based on Evans' own testimony amongst other things, that what happened was in fact rape.

 

I agree the public backlash would make it hard for a club to sign Evans but I don't think there'd be a huge public backlash because 150, 000 people signed a petition.  I think 150, 000 people signed a petition because there would be a huge public backlash.  And yes, it's hard for clubs to make a 'positive case' to sign him and perhaps he won't get signed.  But he's still not banned, blocked or prevented from being signed.  Football clubs have just been made aware that football is a changing game, vastly becoming more family-orientated and welcoming to women, and it's no longer possible to sign unrepentant convicted sex offenders without getting public criticism.  Which I don't see as being a massive problem.  The simple fact is that any club could still sign him - they're just going to need to accept the PR repercussions.  And frankly, whatever the success of Evans' ultimate appeal, I would say these PR repercussions are things Evans has created via a frankly vile website and appalling attempt to curry PR favour with a very poor excuse for a public apology.

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This might be rubbing again the grain a bit, but I actually think he is innocent. 

 

You're entitled to an opinion (although personally I'd recommend anyone who thinks he's innocent to read through the court summaries and reasons for his failure to appeal)  but, in the nicest way possible, what any of us think about his guilt isn't really relevant here.  The simple fact is, as things stand, he is a convicted rapist and, unless he ever successfully appeals that, the club and society as a whole have to work on the basis that he is guilty.

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You're entitled to an opinion (although personally I'd recommend anyone who thinks he's innocent to read through the court summaries and reasons for his failure to appeal)  but, in the nicest way possible, what any of us think about his guilt isn't really relevant here.  The simple fact is, as things stand, he is a convicted rapist and, unless he ever successfully appeals that, the club and society as a whole have to work on the basis that he is guilty.

 

I have read the whole case, twice, for a course that I'm studying for.  I understand what you're saying though, he has been sentenced by a judge and jury, so that must stand, however, as someone who has been part of the justice system (jury), it really didn't leave me with much confidence. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want Ched anywhere near our club however.  SL wouldn't even think about it for a split second anyway.  He is trying to build a fresh brand in "Bristol Sport", and he won't want any negative press associated with that. 

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Round and round we go again. The jury and 2 appeal court sets of judges decided she was incapable of giving consent due to the state she was in. When will you accept that?

How did the other one get off then? ( I admit to not having read the documents)

And also - how is consent actually given? I Promise I'm not trying to just be an absolute belter but who actually asks there wife/girlfriend if they can have sex with them? It kind of just happens?

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Round and round we go again. The jury and 2 appeal court sets of judges decided she was incapable of giving consent due to the state she was in. When will you accept that?

 

I didn't come on here for an argument.  I've clearly stated above that he has been convicted by a judge and jury and that I wouldn't want him near the club, however, all I'm saying is, its not a clear cut case. Its so full of holes, it looks like a swiss cheese.

 

Anyway, I don't want to argue about it, my opinion is that it isn't a black and white case. There is a MASSIVE amount grey in this, and that is all I'm saying on the matter.  Arguing about it isn't going to change my mind, and it clearly isn't going to change yours.

 

This is an open question.  Why is it ok for 2 players to carry on their careers after killing people, but its not ok for Ched Evans to continue his career?  Its seems more has been made of this than the cases of Hughes and McCormick combined, which were, in my opinion, far worse crimes by a million miles. 

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How did the other one get off then? ( I admit to not having read the documents)

And also - how is consent actually given? I Promise I'm not trying to just be an absolute belter but who actually asks there wife/girlfriend if they can have sex with them? It kind of just happens?

 

The jury decided as she had willingly gone with the other bloke, that implied consent, however Evans turned up in the room later after they had had sex, and decided he wanted to have sex too.

 

She's changed her identity once and moved house five times just to be clear

 

5 identities and 5 moves, go and read the stories I posted links to further up

 

This is an open question.  Why is it ok for 2 players to carry on their careers after killing people, but its not ok for Ched Evans to continue his career?  Its seems more has been made of this than the cases of Hughes and McCormick combined, which were, in my opinion, far worse crimes by a million miles.

I think for me the main difference is the others accepted the verdicts, Evans hasn't, is still pressing in with his appeal and bleating about how he is the victim. He's not sorry at all, he's just sorry he got caught.
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To be fair, our judicial process is pretty solid in this country, is it not?

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been convicted unless there was very strong evidence against him. Just because he denies it doesn't mean he didn't do it. Lots of people try and convince themselves they're innocent and can't admit the truth.

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To be fair, our judicial process is pretty solid in this country, is it not?

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been convicted unless there was very strong evidence against him. Just because he denies it doesn't mean he didn't do it. Lots of people try and convince themselves they're innocent and can't admit the truth.

 

Innocent people sometimes go to prison.

 

Nevertheless he was found guilty and therefore had to serve the punishment.

 

But he maintains his innocence. He might just might be one of those that have unfairly been sent to prison.

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Innocent people sometimes go to prison.

 

Nevertheless he was found guilty and therefore had to serve the punishment.

 

But he maintains his innocence. He might just might be one of those that have unfairly been sent to prison.

True, I'm not naive enough to think they never get it wrong and convict people incorrectly. Having said that, how many convicted criminals admit they're guilty of their crime?

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To be fair, our judicial process is pretty solid in this country, is it not?

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been convicted unless there was very strong evidence against him. Just because he denies it doesn't mean he didn't do it. Lots of people try and convince themselves they're innocent and can't admit the truth.

Is that the same justice system that sends murderers to prison for 15 years, and some for less? That justice system?

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I don't think it will be us for the reason that Adam Baker interviewed Cotts after the Donny match and said "I won't see you before Gillingham" which is on Tuesday and the "unnamed" league 1 club will hold a news conference on Monday (gives them the time to think up a reason that could justify the signing) .Surely City's head of communications would be at this event if it was us ?

 

Anyhow ,however good Evans is,guilty or not, he has morals lower than a snake's scrotum and I would n't want him anywhere near my club.

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Rumours on twitter that oldham are the club. I take it we won't welcome LJ back here as our manager then if he would do such a thing? Hes basically condoning rape right? Or he believes in giving people a 2nd chance.

Condoning rape? Now that is the most stupid post I have read in here

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You're entitled to an opinion (although personally I'd recommend anyone who thinks he's innocent to read through the court summaries and reasons for his failure to appeal)  but, in the nicest way possible, what any of us think about his guilt isn't really relevant here.  The simple fact is, as things stand, he is a convicted rapist and, unless he ever successfully appeals that, the club and society as a whole have to work on the basis that he is guilty.

I agree he's got to win his appeal first before he should think about resuming his career or any club should look at him, I probably also learn towards him not being guilty of the charge, but the fact is at present the court says otherwise so he should concentrate on trying to clear his name before creating all this hysteria around him and the girl involved etc.

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Condoning rape? Now that is the most stupid post I have read in here

How else does he express his approval? Of course he is condoning this man's actions by offering him a contract IF he does, but my take on it is that he is too much of a hot potato, and any club to be foolish enough to sign him would get a huge backlash.

 

No way in a million years would City sign him, and to suggest as some on here have that we might is pure rubbish, and mischief making.   

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How else does he express his approval? Of course he is condoning this man's actions by offering him a contract IF he does, but my take on it is that he is too much of a hot potato, and any club to be foolish enough to sign him would get a huge backlash.

 

No way in a million years would City sign him, and to suggest as some on here have that we might is pure rubbish, and mischief making.   

 

Also in a million years he may have lost a yard of pace .

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He has always said he was innocent (not that I would expect anything else) and they are currently investigating the charge.

IF and its a big IF it is found he was wrongfully convicted there will be a lot of people, some very high profile, who will owe him a massive apology.

It is a delicate situation. McCormack (Plymouth keeper) was charged for causing death by dangerous driving and people were outraged when he was released and offered another chance in football. No ones takes any notice of him anymore.

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