The Batman Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Come on then, what realistically and logistically can / should the EU do about all of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Bamboo pits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 What Mediterranean migrants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted April 20, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Sadly it seems people will literally do anything to escape their own country for what they believe to be a better life somewhere else. It's not just a problem for the EU it is happening all over the world I guess if someone is desperate enough they will try anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Go to Luxembourg and talk about it I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted April 20, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 What Mediterranean migrants? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32382962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32382962 Oh. If they're from North Africa, send them back. If they're EU, let them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Sadly it seems people will literally do anything to escape their own country for what they believe to be a better life somewhere else. It's not just a problem for the EU it is happening all over the world I guess if someone is desperate enough they will try anything I'd do the same and so would you. We should be helping these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Why don't we just convert Greek debt into a 100 yeah loan of Crete, and use it as a processing centre? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasbuster Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'd do the same and so would you. We should be helping these people. How ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 How ? RedDaves very kindly agreed to open a room in his house to provide shelter. Haven't you Dave? Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCulturalBomb Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 RedDaves very kindly agreed to open a room in his house to provide shelter. Haven't you Dave? Dave? I can only imagine his house looking like a clown car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 These people are leaving their own country as conditions are so bad; fair enough. However, why come to Europe? They are Arabic and Muslim, Europe is neither. Someone suggested on Facebook, they should sek asylum or just a better life in a country with the same religion & traditions as themselves. In other words flee to Saudi or Jordan etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 These people are leaving their own country as conditions are so bad; fair enough. However, why come to Europe? They are Arabic and Muslim, Europe is neither. Someone suggested on Facebook, they should sek asylum or just a better life in a country with the same religion & traditions as themselves. In other words flee to Saudi or Jordan etc. Actually a fair number are black African Christians from countries like Ethiopia, Eritrea, South Sudan, Nigeria and Ghana. Hence the recent ethnic barny on one of the boats where the Muslims threw the Christians overboard, which I'm surprised BB hasn't mentioned. I actually agree with the Daily Torygraph here: the only compasssionate way to deal with the problem in the short-term is to have an EU naval blockade of the Libyan coast, stopping all but authorised shipping from leaving port. An enhanced search and rescue operation is never going to pick everyone up who is prepared to risk it, and there are an estimated one million wannabe migrants queueing in Libya, with untold millions more ready to risk the trip if the EU were to make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Actually a fair number are black African Christians from countries like Ethiopia, Eritrea, South Sudan, Nigeria and Ghana. Hence the recent ethnic barny on one of the boats where the Muslims threw the Christians overboard, which I'm surprised BB hasn't mentioned. I actually agree with the Daily Torygraph here: the only compasssionate way to deal with the problem in the short-term is to have an EU naval blockade of the Libyan coast, stopping all but authorised shipping from leaving port. An enhanced search and rescue operation is never going to pick everyone up who is prepared to risk it, and there are an estimated one million wannabe migrants queueing in Libya, with untold millions more ready to risk the trip if the EU were to make it easier. I wouldn't mind betting Ed and Dave are shitting themselves at the moment, after all of their tough pre election talk on immigration, how will they answer the questions once they start?. Like what are we going to help ease the situation?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 We'll do the obvious, and send in Naval resources. Humanitarian relief is something the navy excel at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Actually a fair number are black African Christians from countries like Ethiopia, Eritrea, South Sudan, Nigeria and Ghana. Hence the recent ethnic barny on one of the boats where the Muslims threw the Christians overboard, which I'm surprised BB hasn't mentioned. I actually agree with the Daily Torygraph here: the only compasssionate way to deal with the problem in the short-term is to have an EU naval blockade of the Libyan coast, stopping all but authorised shipping from leaving port. An enhanced search and rescue operation is never going to pick everyone up who is prepared to risk it, and there are an estimated one million wannabe migrants queueing in Libya, with untold millions more ready to risk the trip if the EU were to make it easier. How would that work though? Ships from EU countries could be positioned on the edge of international waters (24 miles is it?) and when a fishing boat with 700 Africans turns up do they stop them coming any further and let them drown in someone else's territory. It's an impossible situation IMO; from a humanitarian stand point we can't let these people drown but assisting them simply encourages more to try their luck. The only solution is to stop them at point of departure but that's frankly impossible at the minute. I think the long term solution is a joint EU asylum system, but that would not sit well with the 'kippers of this world. Then again, one imagines neither will the idea of an 'EU Coastguard' to patrol the med... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 We'll do the obvious, and send in Naval resources. Humanitarian relief is something the navy excel at. Have we still got a Navy?, I wonder HMS Victory is serviceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 How would that work though? Ships from EU countries could be positioned on the edge of international waters (24 miles is it?) and when a fishing boat with 700 Africans turns up do they stop them coming any further and let them drown in someone else's territory. It's an impossible situation IMO; from a humanitarian stand point we can't let these people drown but assisting them simply encourages more to try their luck. The only solution is to stop them at point of departure but that's frankly impossible at the minute. I think the long term solution is a joint EU asylum system, but that would not sit well with the 'kippers of this world. Then again, one imagines neither will the idea of an 'EU Coastguard' to patrol the med... You'd have the Co-operation of Libya's navy and coastguards. As I've read they haven't been paid in a year, there's an easy way to secure that. The blockade will be much closer to shore. No need to actually set foot in the accused place though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 How would that work though? Ships from EU countries could be positioned on the edge of international waters (24 miles is it?) and when a fishing boat with 700 Africans turns up do they stop them coming any further and let them drown in someone else's territory. It's an impossible situation IMO; from a humanitarian stand point we can't let these people drown but assisting them simply encourages more to try their luck. The only solution is to stop them at point of departure but that's frankly impossible at the minute. I think the long term solution is a joint EU asylum system, but that would not sit well with the 'kippers of this world. Then again, one imagines neither will the idea of an 'EU Coastguard' to patrol the med... Actually I think you will find that Farage was the first politician to respond to the crisis in Syria by saying that refugees should be given asylum and has today given a similar response to the Libyan crisis. So much easier to demonize Ukip as xenophobic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Chipdawg always has a blind spot there Marshy. Simple solution is to stop poking our noses into other countries affairs in the first place, we destabilise the country, get out and it goes to shit and we sit back and say, things are much safer now that terrible dictator has gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 You'd have the Co-operation of Libya's navy and coastguards. As I've read they haven't been paid in a year, there's an easy way to secure that. The blockade will be much closer to shore. No need to actually set foot in the accused place though. But with no effective government in most of the country, how would that be sorted? I kind of think that if there was an effective govt and navy in Libya, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. Potentially we could try and prop up the Libyan military, but that's one hell of hornets nest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Send Tony Blair, i'm sure he could sort this if there is enough filthy lucre in it for him and then he can parachute him into Isis held territory to sort that out, after all he is the peace envoy, he would get a wonderful welcome and it's about time he actually earned all this money he making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 But with no effective government in most of the country, how would that be sorted? I kind of think that if there was an effective govt and navy in Libya, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. Potentially we could try and prop up the Libyan military, but that's one hell of hornets nest There still is a Navy and coastguard loyal to the internationally recognised Tobruk government. Obviously any solution would need their agreement. It's not easy to implement, but it's probably better than just saying "Ok, you get here, you can stay ". Can you imagine how many people would come then? We can't solve third world poverty by inviting everyone to live here. That way we become third world ourselves. There is an obvious security element to this too. Can you imagine how easy it would be for jihadists to get to Europe amid boatloads of Syrian, Iraqi and Afghan refugees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Actually I think you will find that Farage was the first politician to respond to the crisis in Syria by saying that refugees should be given asylum and has today given a similar response to the Libyan crisis. So much easier to demonize Ukip as xenophobic. Don't get your knickers in a twist. If you actually read what I said, I was saying that the 'kippers (though in fairness I should have said 'eurosceptics) won't like the idea of a European asylum system coz, you know, they don't like European stuff Farage was actually very progressive and generous with regards Syrian refugees, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Don't get your knickers in a twist. If you actually read what I said, I was saying that the 'kippers (though in fairness I should have said 'eurosceptics) won't like the idea of a European asylum system coz, you know, they don't like European stuff Farage was actually very progressive and generous with regards Syrian refugees, I agree. Although you can add that it's easy to be progressive and generous as a small party not determining actual policy. And of course the manifesto desire to have an "Australian style" points based immigration system contradicts this generosity. Australia's Tony Abbott gets his navy to tow migrant boats away from OZ to places like Papua New Guinea and Palau where they are effectively held in internment camps. The unspoken truth - which is very sad for those caught in Middle Eastern war zones - is that no Western country really wants migrants from Muslim countries any more. Not in the light of the rise of militant Islamism. It's something all EU countries know, but none dare acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Although you can add that it's easy to be progressive and generous as a small party not determining actual policy. And of course the manifesto desire to have an "Australian style" points based immigration system contradicts this generosity. Australia's Tony Abbott gets his navy to tow migrant boats away from OZ to places like Papua New Guinea and Palau where they are effectively held in internment camps. The unspoken truth - which is very sad for those caught in Middle Eastern war zones - is that no Western country really wants migrants from Muslim countries any more. Not in the light of the rise of militant Islamism. It's something all EU countries know, but none dare acknowledge. Well of course, but you can only take what someone has said on face value. Today he said he didn't have a problem a problem with the guys on these boats that were English speaking and Christian, which is crass bordering on disgusting, but you have to give credit as well as criticism Abbot is renowned as an asshole, but the fact is that the hard line immigration seems to play well in Australia. I would like to think that faced with the reality of what is basically Guantanamo Bay-lite on, say, the Isle Of Man like the Aussies have done on PNG (which is an horrifically challenged country itself) and paying asylum seekers to accept citizenship there, the British people wouldn't be entirely comfortable with it I don't really know whether they're wanted, but I suspect you're right. We take a lot fewer immigrants from Islamic countries than Germany or France though but I suspect they'd think the same thing. The vast majority of Muslims in all three countries though are not recent migrants, though we digress from the original point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Well of course, but you can only take what someone has said on face value. Today he said he didn't have a problem a problem with the guys on these boats that were English speaking and Christian, which is crass bordering on disgusting, but you have to give credit as well as criticism Abbot is renowned as an asshole, but the fact is that the hard line immigration seems to play well in Australia. I would like to think that faced with the reality of what is basically Guantanamo Bay-lite on, say, the Isle Of Man like the Aussies have done on PNG (which is an horrifically challenged country itself) and paying asylum seekers to accept citizenship there, the British people wouldn't be entirely comfortable with it I don't really know whether they're wanted, but I suspect you're right. We take a lot fewer immigrants from Islamic countries than Germany or France though but I suspect they'd think the same thing. The vast majority of Muslims in all three countries though are not recent migrants, though we digress from the original point Hehe there's a germ of an idea there. That'll pay the isle of Man back for all those years of allowing people to dodge tax via accounts "based" there!!! Don't show your reply to Nige!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 RedDaves very kindly agreed to open a room in his house to provide shelter. Haven't you Dave? Dave? I can only imagine his house looking like a clown car. Typical flippant replies as expected. Increased search and rescue operations need to be undertaken along with specific migrant quotas from EU countries to help these people who are fleeing for their lives. These are people getting on a boat that might lead them to their death because they see no alternative. Or you can wash your hands with it and say 'not my problem' I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted April 21, 2015 Report Share Posted April 21, 2015 Genius Dave,I knew we could rely on you. Oh but what happens when the quota is reached? Throw them back into the sea? Is that you plan Dave? Genocide? I preferred it when you were offering a room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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