Bristol City And Willem Links

[Bristol Rob]

Which would be a far higher proportion of support than those actively involved in the Fans Advisory Network, which you take part in.

Does this mean the Fans Advisory Network should be looked upon as irrelevant?

Didn't realise it was still going.

[Sixtyseconds]

Didn't realise it was still going.

Back on next month after Bar BS3 has finished his important stuff with Merkel and Obama ..

[BITW]

I've been over to Tilburg two of the last 3 trips. The Willem lads are top class and treat us city like royalty over there with free drinks and match tickets etc. It's always a great trip and is brilliant to hear all the Dutch lads over there singing city/anti gas songs.

May not be any historical/playing links between the two clubs but without doubt there is a strong link between the two clubs fans and numbers going on the Tilburg trip are increasing every year.

The 'friendship' we have with Willem is unique and I can't understand why any city fan wouldn't think a friendly was a good idea.

[Phileas Fogg]

Seems to me that those knocking the Willem link are the same that knock the EE/Singer relocation at any opportunity

[Guest]

1. True

2. I want meaning the whole lot of that 300 to be the core, much like we averaged crowds of 12-13000 last season, but the core of that group, i.e the ones who go most, if not all weeks is a smaller amount, same as when we have away games there is usually a group of people that manage the majority of them.

3. at least you arent in denial

4. honestly, would you be as supportive if the club tried to form links with a team that was a low-mid table club in the Portuguese top division before becoming a yo yo side as you would if it was Willem II?

I don't follow the response to 2 im afraid. Cowshed doesn't say it's typically the same people that went on one tour to the next

Re 4 yes I absolutely would. Go the whole hog and make it Portuguese second division for all I care.

There's far more to this than quality of playing staff. For example, I'm thinking what a great experience it could be if a link was forged and academy kids at 16 were sent to Portugal, Holland, Sweden where bloody ever for a couple of weeks or months even. Be a great education for them, great for their personal development and maturity, get some perspectives from different coaches and set ups, come back tell us what drills they do, how they operate yada yada yada. If we reciprocated this what's the cost, a few easyjet flights? What about say Bobby Reid next year... Would you say to Williem II why not take him on trial and see if for a year he'd get any time with you and whether you can kick start him?

Then there is scouting - you pick up the phone and say any gems we should pop out and watch : and remember these clubs will have knowledge of youth teams, reserve leagues/matches and their whole domestic league. With one tie up we could effectively grow our scouting network by a whole country.

Yes there is also fan appeasement. The fact is a fair number have gone to willem and only had good to say of how they were treated by the fans and club alike. Similarly we've hosted and fans involved have done what they could to let them leave with a positive experience. You're right across bases this is a small number, but people learn and reciprocal games would only reinforce it and get more on board. In 5 years time no reason why it couldn't be an eagerly anticipated friendly much more widely.

And most of all, Willem II seem ready, willing and keen. What is to lose?! Financially, minimal; time, not much; reputationally, nothing.

Before casting aspersions about Williem II would it not impress you that they identified early on in their playing career, signed and left for bigger clubs: Marc Overmars, Moussa Dembele, Jaap Stam; and that's domestically. They were also the club that identified his potential and plucked from Nordic football Sami Hyppia. If we had an alumni resembling anything like that since the 90's - international heavyweights, two arguably legends of the game - maybe we could scorn.

[JamesBCFC]

Why have you got a major problem with this.

We have got a link with Willem, you don't like it and don't seem to be able to accept it.

The question I will ask is why?

I don't have a problem with it, I haven't said that at any point. In fact show me where I have.

I don't like the fans making a reason to bring it up and moan about the lack of a friendly at every opportunity, regardless of it being relevant or not. If it was relevant to  the topic when it was brought up this time then I wouldn't have said anything, I even joined the page on Facebook asking for a friendly a couple of years ago.

 

I personally think an actual link between City and a European club would be a fantastic whether it be Willem II or EA Guingamp or  Hannover 96. But it's the cliquey us and them attitude towards anyone that has a differing opinion that makes these debates go on and on needlessly.

[Ian M]

I don't follow the response to 2 im afraid. Cowshed doesn't say it's typically the same people that went on one tour to the next

Re 4 yes I absolutely would. Go the whole hog and make it Portuguese second division for all I care.

There's far more to this than quality of playing staff. For example, I'm thinking what a great experience it could be if a link was forged and academy kids at 16 were sent to Portugal, Holland, Sweden where bloody ever for a couple of weeks or months even. Be a great education for them, great for their personal development and maturity, get some perspectives from different coaches and set ups, come back tell us what drills they do, how they operate yada yada yada. If we reciprocated this what's the cost, a few easyjet flights? What about say Bobby Reid next year... Would you say to Williem II why not take him on trial and see if for a year he'd get any time with you and whether you can kick start him?

Then there is scouting - you pick up the phone and say any gems we should pop out and watch : and remember these clubs will have knowledge of youth teams, reserve leagues/matches and their whole domestic league. With one tie up we could effectively grow our scouting network by a whole country.

Yes there is also fan appeasement. The fact is a fair number have gone to willem and only had good to say of how they were treated by the fans and club alike. Similarly we've hosted and fans involved have done what they could to let them leave with a positive experience. You're right across bases this is a small number, but people learn and reciprocal games would only reinforce it and get more on board. In 5 years time no reason why it couldn't be an eagerly anticipated friendly much more widely.

And most of all, Willem II seem ready, willing and keen. What is to lose?! Financially, minimal; time, not much; reputationally, nothing.

Before casting aspersions about Williem II would it not impress you that they identified early on in their playing career, signed and left for bigger clubs: Marc Overmars, Moussa Dembele, Jaap Stam; and that's domestically. They were also the club that identified his potential and plucked from Nordic football Sami Hyppia. If we had an alumni resembling anything like that since the 90's - international heavyweights, two arguably legends of the game - maybe we could scorn.

I was gonna touch upon the scouting side of things myself but you seem to have covered most bases with your post. If the club felt sending a team of youngsters over there was too expensive to do each year, how about sending a few of the key youth coaches over to see how the Dutch approach training?

The only thing I can think of as to why the club might not be so keen on the link up is to do with some of the imagery looking quite aggressive in nature (although this is just the standard European fan group imagery style). Are they concerned that the fan link up is between what they would consider the roudier element?

[JamesBCFC]

I don't follow the response to 2 im afraid. Cowshed doesn't say it's typically the same people that went on one tour to the next

Re 4 yes I absolutely would. Go the whole hog and make it Portuguese second division for all I care.

There's far more to this than quality of playing staff. For example, I'm thinking what a great experience it could be if a link was forged and academy kids at 16 were sent to Portugal, Holland, Sweden where bloody ever for a couple of weeks or months even. Be a great education for them, great for their personal development and maturity, get some perspectives from different coaches and set ups, come back tell us what drills they do, how they operate yada yada yada. If we reciprocated this what's the cost, a few easyjet flights? What about say Bobby Reid next year... Would you say to Williem II why not take him on trial and see if for a year he'd get any time with you and whether you can kick start him?

Then there is scouting - you pick up the phone and say any gems we should pop out and watch : and remember these clubs will have knowledge of youth teams, reserve leagues/matches and their whole domestic league. With one tie up we could effectively grow our scouting network by a whole country.

Yes there is also fan appeasement. The fact is a fair number have gone to willem and only had good to say of how they were treated by the fans and club alike. Similarly we've hosted and fans involved have done what they could to let them leave with a positive experience. You're right across bases this is a small number, but people learn and reciprocal games would only reinforce it and get more on board. In 5 years time no reason why it couldn't be an eagerly anticipated friendly much more widely.

And most of all, Willem II seem ready, willing and keen. What is to lose?! Financially, minimal; time, not much; reputationally, nothing.

Before casting aspersions about Williem II would it not impress you that they identified early on in their playing career, signed and left for bigger clubs: Marc Overmars, Moussa Dembele, Jaap Stam; and that's domestically. They were also the club that identified his potential and plucked from Nordic football Sami Hyppia. If we had an alumni resembling anything like that since the 90's - international heavyweights, two arguably legends of the game - maybe we could scorn.

I have nothing against Willem II, and the last question was totally serious, so appreciate the response. The fact that you honestly can say you would support it regardless of the team is all I was after. As I have just put in my last response (I know it wasn't up when you posted this) I completely agree about forming a relationship with a club. What grates is how a number of those pushing for a link with Willem II appear to look for every opportunity to criticise and when that is challenged an "us vs them" type thing is made. One thing I will say though is that I would want such a relationship between City and another club to be one searched for by the Coaches/Managers or part of their staff, as you would hope they would know more specifically about what they want and will get from each club, and not just choose a club because it is popular with fans. (Not a scorn at Willem II, just a general comment)

[WTMS]

I have nothing against Willem II, and the last question was totally serious, so appreciate the response. The fact that you honestly can say you would support it regardless of the team is all I was after. As I have just put in my last response (I know it wasn't up when you posted this) I completely agree about forming a relationship with a club. What grates is how a number of those pushing for a link with Willem II appear to look for every opportunity to criticise and when that is challenged an "us vs them" type thing is made.

What people challenged was the aggressive adversarial nature of your posts e.g. "can we stop wanking over Willem", or a "I just don't buy into bullshit and people trying to force an imaginary link".

In the context of friendlies Willem II are obviously going to be topical, and BCFC - BS poor performance regarding the cancelled game v Villa should not be beyond question.

[Guest]

I have nothing against Willem II, and the last question was totally serious, so appreciate the response. The fact that you honestly can say you would support it regardless of the team is all I was after. As I have just put in my last response (I know it wasn't up when you posted this) I completely agree about forming a relationship with a club. What grates is how a number of those pushing for a link with Willem II appear to look for every opportunity to criticise and when that is challenged an "us vs them" type thing is made. One thing I will say though is that I would want such a relationship between City and another club to be one searched for by the Coaches/Managers or part of their staff, as you would hope they would know more specifically about what they want and will get from each club, and not just choose a club because it is popular with fans. (Not a scorn at Willem II, just a general comment)

Wouldn't disagree with any of that.

I would be slightly more militant in favour of Willem II because in addition to all else it seems there is a genuine desire across the border rather than some suits sitting down. As our first foray into such an arrangement between 'friends' would be better than by tender process in my opinion. The few, but still several fans it would impress is a bonus.

That aside I would genuinely support just about any such arrangement.

[Bar BS3]

Which would be a far higher proportion of support than those actively involved in the Fans Advisory Network, which you take part in.

Does this mean the Fans Advisory Network should be looked upon as irrelevant?

It's far less than the amount of people on our board of directors. Are they irrelevant?

I still haven't noticed you attending any of the FAN's meetings, despite being so opinionated about it.

Come along, I'll buy you a pint.

Yes, I would probably go if we arranged a friendly Vs Williem. That doesn't however mean that it would make a sound official tie between the two clubs. It would just be for the piss up.

[JamesBCFC]

What people challenged was the aggressive adversarial nature of your posts e.g. "can we stop wanking over Willem", or a "I just don't buy into bullshit and people trying to force an imaginary link".

In the context of friendlies Willem II are obviously going to be topical, and BCFC - BS poor performance regarding the cancelled game v Villa should not be beyond question.

I wont pretend to be innocent, I generally respond in kind to how I am addressed and this is a long term thing I have noticed- not just from this particular time, however I accept that today I was short with people about it quickly, mainly because it was being used as a way to bash the club where it wasn't relevant. That being said BCFC/BS could and should have acted better in letting people know about the friendly cancellation.

[WTMS]

It's far less than the amount of people on our board of directors. Are they irrelevant?

I still haven't noticed you attending any of the FAN's meetings, despite being so opinionated about it.

Come along, I'll buy you a pint.

Yes, I would probably go if we arranged a friendly Vs Williem. That doesn't however mean that it would make a sound official tie between the two clubs. It would just be for the piss up.

The Directors of Bristol City and Bristol Sport are hopefully "employed" for their skills, which is of constant relevance

I still haven't noticed you attending any of the FAN's meetings ... Or the hundreds [Maybe now!] of others who make the trip over to Tilburg.

The question was due to the tiny numbers involved in the Fans Advisory Network does this make it irrelevant? The answer is no, particularly not if they are proactively engaging with the wider fan base.

Bristol City is a broad church of differing minorities which then equals collectively thousands. Some care not for the ST&C regarding a statue, but their effort matters. All should be significant, that should be the nature of a "club!"

[Bar BS3]

The Directors of Bristol City and Bristol Sport are hopefully "employed" for their skills, which is of constant relevance

I still haven't noticed you attending any of the FAN's meetings ... Or the hundreds [Maybe now!] of others who make the trip over to Tilburg.

The question was due to the tiny numbers involved in the Fans Advisory Network does this make it irrelevant? The answer is no, particularly not if they are proactively engaging with the wider fan base.

Bristol City is a broad church of differing minorities which then equals collectively thousands. Some care not for the ST&C regarding a statue, but their effort matters. All should be significant, that should be the nature of a "club!"

I think it's quite different. Some fans meeting up with fans of another team for a piss up. (Often more than that, but I won't go into that here) and a group of people (who are generally elected by fellow supporters) to liaise directly with club officials.

[cider head]

 and a group of people (who are generally elected by fellow supporters) to liaise directly with club officials.

 

Interesting.

 

Who voted? Which fellow fans? and what election process? as i have never voted for a supporter to liaise or represent me? how do you vote?

if so i think some new elections are due as those reps have been very quiet in asking for fan issues to liaise directly with club officials,

the section on this forum is dead when you think there are a number of reps who are members of this forum.

 

I have always thought fans just volunteered if they could be bothered.

 

Just genuinely curious

[Wilksi]

I'll stand. Who's gonna vote for me.

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

you've missed my point totally, there is no link between the two clubs which someone claimed earlier in this thread, that IS imaginary. There is, however,a small link between a minority of the two clubs fans

So why do you appear so offended by the fact that a section of our fans would like to see a FRIENDLY match between BCFC and Willem?

[Bar BS3]

Interesting.

Who voted? Which fellow fans? and what election process? as i have never voted for a supporter to liaise or represent me? how do you vote?

if so i think some new elections are due as those reps have been very quiet in asking for fan issues to liaise directly with club officials,

the section on this forum is dead when you think there are a number of reps who are members of this forum.

I have always thought fans just volunteered if they could be bothered.

Just genuinely curious

I believe details of all the FAN's reps are on the club website.

I think the idea is that re election is due every couple of years although it's been fairly formative until now, so I don't know if this has actually come about as yet.

Each rep does have a section of the supporter base that they represent and would have been nominated and seconded as the rep for that section of support.

In fairness, I don't think there are ques of people waiting to be elected to replace anyone who is currently attending. It would be encouraged for that to be the case.

The more people who attend and get involved the better is how it's viewed.

I was sceptical about it all, that's why I first went along myself, but it's actually very constructive, informative and worthwhile.

[Monkeh]

Most people who don't use the forums or drink in the lions are unaware of the link between the two sets of fans

I'm meh to the whole thing but doesn't bother me that others want something done

[Phileas Fogg]

Most people who don't use the forums or drink in the lions are unaware of the link between the two sets of fans

I'm meh to the whole thing but doesn't bother me that others want something done

Actually I think it is those that drink in the lions that are much more aware of the link than anyone else

[Puckle_red]

I believe details of all the FAN's reps are on the club website.

I think the idea is that re election is due every couple of years although it's been fairly formative until now, so I don't know if this has actually come about as yet.

Each rep does have a section of the supporter base that they represent and would have been nominated and seconded as the rep for that section of support.

In fairness, I don't think there are ques of people waiting to be elected to replace anyone who is currently attending. It would be encouraged for that to be the case.

The more people who attend and get involved the better is how it's viewed.

I was sceptical about it all, that's why I first went along myself, but it's actually very constructive, informative and worthwhile.

Not so. I emailed DL and was a rep for a bit until I soon realised it was an utter waste of time and a talking shop where the club dictates to you rather than openly listens and debates various subjects. There are no elections and nothing of the sort was ever suggested in the 7 or 8 meetings I attended from the start.

The FP members when asked for opinions at the meetings are simply relaying the opinions of that individual not of a wider fan base which was the original idea.

I believe the idea was a good one, but from my experience the club still had it all wrong, they were not there to listen and consult but to tell and lecture, it became a waste of valuable time after a long day or journey at work.

I'm not slamming the club, I'm simply pointing out that it's not what it was supposed to be.

[Three Lions]

Most people who don't use the forums or drink in the lions are unaware of the link between the two sets of fans

I'm meh to the whole thing but doesn't bother me that others want something done

It would be the other way round in the Lions Miners and spanish plus others. Its a case of would like something v wanting or demanding it done as City are not that interested in those sections of support.

Lions flag days EE fans events all got nil attention really v a shed, that is the way it is and will probably continue. Maybe it is better that way anyway.

[phantom]

I soon realised it was an utter waste of time and a talking shop where the club dictates to you rather than openly listens and debates various subjects.

 

 

Don't want to take this thread too far off of topic as that was how this thread started in the first place.

 

As soon as there was the meeting when Cotts was there and all he did was speak for nearly the whole time of the meeting, then we had feedback that questions raised via OTIB were not asked due to time constraints, was where it was lost on me.

 

I guess the principle of it is good - but 'in my opinion' still a long way from where it should be - I've never understood why the SC&T don't run this and get their profile back up to where it was in previous years

[cider head]

I think these sort of numbers are a fair size just based on the internet and not just pubs, it is showing a decent interest about this subject.

 

Bristol City & Willem II Fans would like pre season friendly 1,964 members

https://www.facebook.com/groups/bcfcwillem/?fref=ts


So far 1,692 have signed a online petition which has not been online no more than 6 months.

https://www.change.org/p/bristol-city-fc-willem-ii-fc-fans-of-bristol-city-willem-ii-would-like-the-two-clubs-to-play-each-other-in-a-pre-season-friendly#petition-letter

 

It is fair to say there has never been in the past an interest by City fans (or the fans we are asking to play) to ask for a pre season game with numbers shown above so why not give it a try? fans who want to attend will do so and if it's not your thing then don't go, it is just 1 game from many that fans can choose to attend or not.

['Orns]

I don't have a problem with it, I haven't said that at any point. In fact show me where I have.

I don't like the fans making a reason to bring it up and moan about the lack of a friendly at every opportunity, regardless of it being relevant or not. If it was relevant to  the topic when it was brought up this time then I wouldn't have said anything, I even joined the page on Facebook asking for a friendly a couple of years ago.

 

I personally think an actual link between City and a European club would be a fantastic whether it be Willem II or EA Guingamp or  Hannover 96. But it's the cliquey us and them attitude towards anyone that has a differing opinion that makes these debates go on and on needlessly.

 

Isn't it people like you, who want to rubbish the link, 'that makes these debates go on and on needlessly'?

 

I don't think there is a 'cliquey' attitude at all, I'm sure we can all pick out people on here who are involved and could PM them about when the Dutch lads are coming over and go meet for a pint before the game. I get that you don't understand the link, I'm sure many don't - but the title is pretty clear....you could just ignore it. I have no links with it, but I enjoy reading the posts and seeing the photos on facebook, I'm all for it

[JamesBCFC]

So why do you appear so offended by the fact that a section of our fans would like to see a FRIENDLY match between BCFC and Willem?

im not,you are putting words in my mouth from the top of your head

[JamesBCFC]

Isn't it people like you, who want to rubbish the link, 'that makes these debates go on and on needlessly'?

 

I don't think there is a 'cliquey' attitude at all, I'm sure we can all pick out people on here who are involved and could PM them about when the Dutch lads are coming over and go meet for a pint before the game. I get that you don't understand the link, I'm sure many don't - but the title is pretty clear....you could just ignore it. I have no links with it, but I enjoy reading the posts and seeing the photos on facebook, I'm all for it

No woodsy, it isn't normally me as I usually don't say anything, I was even supportive of such a link between City and another club (repeating myself here)

As for the title beng clear- well done, this was the thread made from the posts on the Aston villa friendly thread and moved to here so it didn't clog that one up, and I only commented about the "link" because it was being used to bash city when it was totally irrelevant

['Orns]

No woodsy, it isn't normally me as I usually don't say anything, I was even supportive of such a link between City and another club (repeating myself here)

As for the title beng clear- well done, this was the thread made from the posts on the Aston villa friendly thread and moved to here so it didn't clog that one up, and I only commented about the "link" because it was being used to bash city when it was totally irrelevant

 

Sweet - no need for the sarcasm, flower

[Monkeh]

Yea that's what I meant people who don't drink in any of those pubs or in that crowd are unaware

Maybe the club only want to deal with the official supporters club I don't know but it's really up to the management team who we play in a friendly not the fans or the board (tho the board will get a say)

Maybe a way forward would be to approach cotts or burt and make them aware

[WTMS]

Maybe a way forward would be to approach cotts or burt and make them aware

 

They and other directors already are.