Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said: Without doubt. ANY crime committed by ANYONE. Not picking out individual crimes or incidents just because they were committed by a race of people you don't happen to like. I understand your point about the singular odd crimes and incidents and I agree with you entirely, but don't let us forget why the vile systematic crimes perpetrated in Rotherham and were not investigated?, it was for much the same reasoning that you are condemning and systematically covered up by the very people employed to prevent and investigate these vile crimes. Once more any crime reported by any member of the public should be rigorously and honestly investigated without fear or favour and not hidden from sight because these agencies are frightened of being smeared with being racist if it happens to be a certain group of people whoever they might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 1 hour ago, Moloch said: I know I crap on about reliable, unbiased sources... http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/21/rt-sanctioned-over-series-of-misleading-articles-by-media-watchdog Russia Today (as it was previously known) has repeatedly been accused of misleading reporting and anti-western bias. It has been found guilty of repeated breaches of the UK broadcasting standards. It always makes me laugh when people hold up RT as a voice of truth in a sea of biased journalism. Regardless of your political affiliation, a government mouthpiece- ANY government mouthpiece- is never going to be an unbiased source of news and information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 3 hours ago, richwwtk said: Of course, silly me, I should have realised that the Muslim community leaders, the police, the politicians and social services all got together and worked out a plan that allowed the abuse to go on unreported. There was me thinking it was actually mistakes made by a few people, partly out of fear of reprisals, that allowed it to go on as long as it did. It could even be argued that scare mongering and demonisation of Muslims by people such as yourself is what contributed to that 'fear factor' and made people who should know better treat the offenders in this case in a different manner to other members of society. Wow, labour politicians systematically covered this up, the Police continued to ignore it even when it became obvious that there was a major problem and social workers who tried to actually do their job and bring the truth out were silenced and threatened by their superiors and victims told they asked for it and parents ignored and fobbed off, but it could be argued that really it's the scaremongers to blame, well i've heard it all now I really have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: Wow, labour politicians systematically covered this up, the Police continued to ignore it even when it became obvious that there was a major problem and social workers who tried to actually do their job and bring the truth out were silenced and threatened by their superiors and victims told they asked for it and parents ignored and fobbed off, but it could be argued that really it's the scaremongers to blame, well i've heard it all now I really have. Best to leave it there EMB, I can see a card being played soon to wriggle out of a desperate situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 2 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: I understand your point about the singular odd crimes and incidents and I agree with you entirely, but don't let us forget why the vile systematic crimes perpetrated in Rotherham and were not investigated?, it was for much the same reasoning that you are condemning and systematically covered up by the very people employed to prevent and investigate these vile crimes. Once more any crime reported by any member of the public should be rigorously and honestly investigated without fear or favour and not hidden from sight because these agencies are frightened of being smeared with being racist if it happens to be a certain group of people whoever they might be. You do like to take the ball and run with it, don't you? I agree with all of this. The point I was making is that our friend in Italy is using horrendous crimes to demonise Islam whilst conveniently failing to acknowledge that extraordinarily similar events have happened on these shores with not a Muslim in sight. Anyway, there's a couple of very interesting posts from red robbo and chip from early afternoon that I see Bb has failed to respond to. Presumably, like genetics, the points raised are a bit too 'awkward' for him to respond to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 You first paragraph could also be said abouts Jews / Israelis, certainly the ones I've met. You previously said you wouldn't let any Muslims into the UK, now you are saying you would so glad to see your views are softening by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: Well ... first of all, you've picked on one video you don't like the source of, ignored the others and missed the whole point - that all hell is breaking out across Europe because of immigration and the Schengen agreement. Do you deny this? I mean, do you deny that many ordinary people are so p1ssed off with immigration that they are now actively resisting their elected governments? Can you not see that? You might also not see some of the stuff that is happening in Europe. For example I just scanned the Guardian for a story about the situation in Bologna yesterday. I've just got back from yoga and I'm shattered so I might have missed something but scanning the home page and World news http://www.theguardian.com/world and Europe http://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news I see nothing about it. Incredible. This was a massive demo by a very nationalist party, sort of UKIP on steroids (that has come from nowhere really to spreading it's reach throughout Italy right on the back of the immigration issue) right in the red heart of Italian Communism complete, a hugely significant and deliberate challenge to the status quo here, complete with a counter protest / mini-riot by the usual morons, I mean suspects and -- nothing! See what I mean? I thought I was being pretty consistent in challenging your sources. That was my starting point in this thread - putting up a counter-argument to the Pat Condell video you posted. The Bologna situation is the meeting of the Lega Nord leader, Matteo Salvini with Silvio Berlusconi? There is very little coverage anywhere, not even in the Italian press. I found this in the IBT. The headline is Salvini, i 100.000 in piazza ed il "vizietto" di gonfiare i numeri: come si calcola la dimensione di una folla? (Salvini, 100000 in the square and the vice of inflating the numbers: how do you calculate the size of crowd?) 1 hour ago, Big Brother said: Secondly, there are no unbiased sources, everyone has an agenda, including Auntie, so why not be skeptical about all media sources, pull in a range of things and make-up your own mind? Thirdly instead of castigating my examples how about showing the opposite - whatever the opposite for you is? This reply is also sent-out to chipdawg. Look, mock the sources if you want, that's your prerogative, but don't get into denial about what is happening. There are no unbiased sources. Agreed. And you want me to be a skeptical reader/consumer of news. OK. I promise that I try to be. But surely it is for you to defend your sources and point of view. I am not (intentionally) putting forward an alternative agenda - I am criticising yours. I have been responding to your posts and suggesting that your arguments are flawed. I hope that I have not mocked, and I apologise if you feel that I have been less than respectful at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moloch Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 27 minutes ago, Big Brother said: There are many problems in this world kitr and only 24 hours in the day. I wrote that in the past I didn't have an issue with immigration of people who became part of the UK culture and had a skill to offer that the nation needed. Now there definitely is a problem and I am against any immigration from islamic nations into Europe and would want it rolled back. My views are hardening by the day tbh not softening. Can I ask what you mean by "I am against any immigration from islamic nations into Europe and would want it rolled back." Not meaning to be obtuse, but it sounds like you are saying send 'em back where they came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said: You do like to take the ball and run with it, don't you? I agree with all of this. The point I was making is that our friend in Italy is using horrendous crimes to demonise Islam whilst conveniently failing to acknowledge that extraordinarily similar events have happened on these shores with not a Muslim in sight. Anyway, there's a couple of very interesting posts from red robbo and chip from early afternoon that I see Bb has failed to respond to. Presumably, like genetics, the points raised are a bit too 'awkward' for him to respond to... What I like is balance + 75% of your reply to me is actually aimed at somebody that I have no connection with, which is a little weird to be honest, tell e not I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 16 hours ago, Big Brother said: Berlin yesterday https://youtu.be/PZwpE37YdqI Looks like 80% young fit males to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 10 hours ago, Big Brother said: Well ... first of all, you've picked on one video you don't like the source of, ignored the others and missed the whole point - that all hell is breaking out across Europe because of immigration and the Schengen agreement. Do you deny this? I mean, do you deny that many ordinary people are so p1ssed off with immigration that they are now actively resisting their elected governments? Can you not see that? You might also not see some of the stuff that is happening in Europe. For example I just scanned the Guardian for a story about the situation in Bologna yesterday. I've just got back from yoga and I'm shattered so I might have missed something but scanning the home page and World news http://www.theguardian.com/world and Europe http://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news I see nothing about it. Incredible. This was a massive demo by a very nationalist party, sort of UKIP on steroids (that has come from nowhere really to spreading it's reach throughout Italy right on the back of the immigration issue) right in the red heart of Italian Communism complete, a hugely significant and deliberate challenge to the status quo here, complete with a counter protest / mini-riot by the usual morons, I mean suspects and -- nothing! See what I mean? Secondly, there are no unbiased sources, everyone has an agenda, including Auntie, so why not be skeptical about all media sources, pull in a range of things and make-up your own mind? Thirdly instead of castigating my examples how about showing the opposite - whatever the opposite for you is? This reply is also sent-out to chipdawg. Look, mock the sources if you want, that's your prerogative, but don't get into denial about what is happening. I think perhaps a bit of perspective is required BB. The only British news outlet that have reported on Bologna is the Daily Mail and most of their copy is about Berlusconi and his salacious past. That fact is that no matter how important the events were to you, a demonstration and counter demonstration involving a few hundred people at a meeting between an Italian MEP and a disgraced politician in a city most famous here for a mince and tomato-based pasta Source is just not going to get the newswires twitching in Britain. History may demonstrate that I was a much bigger moment in the political history of Europe than anyone suspected, but to be honest I doubt it And for the record I do not endorse any particular news outlet, they all do indeed have an agenda to one extent or another. I'm not even saying that everything RT publishes is bullshit. But unfortunately for them, I don't really want to get my news from the Russian government if it's all the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 8 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said: What I like is balance + 75% of your reply to me is actually aimed at somebody that I have no connection with, which is a little weird to be honest, tell e not I. It's not weird in the slightest. You replied to a post I made in response to BB, so what do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 1 minute ago, Big Brother said: Right but my point is exactly that - this demonstration had a lot of political significance (Lega Nord on the Communists' home turf - it was a deliberate 'eff you' from the Lega) and there was a big attendance, but it's not newsworthy in the UK. Ergo, you guys are missing a lot of what is happening here. That was what I was trying to say. But it's just not significant in the UK at this time. It appears to a British person as a dispute between opposing political groups on a regional basis- I don't suppose a clash between an EDL march and UAF in, for example, Sheffield, would set the tongues wagging in Bologna. Perhaps when we look back in 10 years time it will be important, but right now it's only significant to a very small number of people. Lega Nord themselves are perhaps worthy of reportage and they do get column inches, but the fact remains that they are currently a minor (though undeniably growing) political party in a foreign country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 14 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Right but the point is they are a sign of the times and these marches, demos, fights, elections for 'right wing anti-immigrant parties' is happening all over. Yep, and there are loads of articles on UK news outlets about the rise of such parties across Europe and have been over several years. But individual incidents involving these parties are not anywhere near as news worthy at present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 20 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: Nationalism has never brought us anything but wars. It is, as a great man observed, the last refuge of the scoundrel - and it's used very successfully across the world to pull the wool over the eyes of the exploited populace. This is one of the best points that has been raised on this thread and deserves to be emphasized now. What Big Brother is essentially calling for is a kind of revolution - for further persecution of ethnic groups that will lead to violence and bloodshed. He must know deep down that if nationalist parties gained more political power we would have chaos in the streets. Life for our families and future children would be even more unbearable. Look how a nationalist party like the ANC is currently destroying the South African economy and country in general causing suffering to people of ALL races. Your mindset is actually very dangerous. Its clear to me that every solution you have suggested to accomplish your 'goals' wouldn't work in reality anyway. It would just cause anarchy and financial uncertainty leaving your family with no prospects or social security. I guess what I am trying to say is - Be careful what you wish for Big Brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Putting nationalism aside for a moment, globally, two tribes are developing. The first, based on commonsense, believing that world population levels have already massively exceeded sustainable levels, that we are trashing the planet, should live within our means, that other forms of life on on the planet have rights and that decisions should be based on logic. The second, that we can act irrationally but by praying to some (variable form) of super superior-being everything will be alright on the night or, if it isn't, it will be in the next world. Increasingly, I don't think these two tribes mix well. Importing millions (who are breeding millions more) of the 'super being' believers onto land masses occupied by people who are increasingly sceptical that a 'super being' exists is not a particularly bright idea imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 21 hours ago, Red-Robbo said: That and the support for the petty flag-waving of ultra nationalists. Nationalism has never brought us anything but wars. It is, as a great man observed, the last refuge of the scoundrel - and it's used very successfully across the world to pull the wool over the eyes of the exploited populace. Absolutely spot on RR, but in the interests of balance (something sadly lacking by both sides of this debate) attempts by especially politicians and supporters from the left to denigrate anybody for showing 'national pride' by flying our union or national flag, especially during world sporting events or supporting our armed forces is beyond childish and to wrap it under the banner 'it's been hijacked by extremists' is just plain stupid and untrue, racists and bigots will always be racists and bigots whatever flag they march too and as we know for sure from this thread some people are only quick to tar people with that particular brush, without the slightest shred of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 13 hours ago, Big Brother said: . And leave Pat Condell out of this (if that's who you were referring to), he's a big friend of Israel and a right laugh. I did like his tweet during the "Million Mask March" in London last week. Worth googling it if you didn't catch it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said: I did like his tweet during the "Million Mask March" in London last week. Worth googling it if you didn't catch it The 'million mask march' eh? Someone must have made a killing selling all those to the 'anti-capitalists'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 44 minutes ago, Big Brother said: ... because everything is just fine now. Your mindset is actually very dangerous. ... Imo people with your mindset (not you specifically) are the cause of the problems ordinary people face today: diminishing democracy, debt, lack of social identity, poverty (housing, health, education) etc etc. The ANC are a bunch of lunatics: Do you disagree with what I said though? That giving power to nationalist parties would cause financial and general chaos? Most of them don't know their head from their arse in terms of building a practical society. They play on fear but don't really have a coherent plan if they did get voted in - UKIP are a classic example - their economic policies up until a year or so ago were pure fantasy. I imagine some of the groups that you have been drooling over on here are an even bigger shambles - like the ones who sold meat - utter cowboys! You must have no idea about the current issues in South Africa (I have lived there recently) but the ANC are destroying that country. They make the Tories look like Robin Hood. My mindset isn't dangerous, don't be so condescending. Despite its problems, I know enough about the world to know that living in this country is still a deeply privileged place to be compared to most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 1 hour ago, marshy said: The 'million mask march' eh? Someone must have made a killing selling all those to the 'anti-capitalists'. I'd have thought you'd have some sympathy with their anti-establishment agenda Marshy?! It's a shame really that an interesting political agenda on paper translates into a bunch of morons getting pissed and setting cars on fire whilst wearing shit masks on the street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 1 hour ago, marshy said: The 'million mask march' eh? Someone must have made a killing selling all those to the 'anti-capitalists'. "They're selling hippy wigs in Woolworths man...." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1wcDiOuo6Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 42 minutes ago, chipdawg said: I'd have thought you'd have some sympathy with their anti-establishment agenda Marshy?! It's a shame really that an interesting political agenda on paper translates into a bunch of morons getting pissed and setting cars on fire whilst wearing shit masks on the street ....and setting off fireworks under police horses, nothing more guaranteed to set the British people against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 13 minutes ago, marshy said: ....and setting off fireworks under police horses, nothing more guaranteed to set the British people against them. Oh yeah. There's nothing the British people hate more than animals who're in service of the public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 1 hour ago, chipdawg said: Oh yeah. There's nothing the British people hate more than animals who're in service of the public Que? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 2 hours ago, marshy said: Que? I was being facetious In short, I agree that the masked marchers were largely dicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 9 hours ago, Big Brother said: Why is former Coronation street character Reg Holdsworth in that picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 12 hours ago, Big Brother said: Dicks for hire? You don't generally need to hire dicks, they will more often than not offer their particular service for free This thread seems to be taking a very 'Carry On' turn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 23 minutes ago, Big Brother said: This is strange - anyone know anything about this story from 2013? It's from everyone's favourite source of impartial truth - the BBC: Radioactive canister stolen in Bacup found in Rochdale A canister of radioactive material stolen from a van in Lancashire has been found in a retail park in Greater Manchester. It was taken from the back of a van in Bacup between 16 and 17 February. A suspicious package was found at Point Retail Park in Rochdale at about 12:45 GMT. It was declared safe by police and has been removed. More here: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lancashire-21788687 Don't remember it, though I'm at a loss to understand what it has to do with refugees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted November 11, 2015 Report Share Posted November 11, 2015 36 minutes ago, Big Brother said: Ordinary Europeans doing what they can in lieu of their leaders doing it for them (I know some of you will hate the source, maybe the BBC has also reported this? ;) ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1p1QrEUGX8 Good luck to them- peaceful, non-violent action should never be dismissed or repressed, regardless of whether you or I agree with the motives behind it. I can understand why the BBC (or any other UK news outlet for that matter) don't report on it though; it wasn't exactly the million man march in terms of numbers so I'm not sure the event really constitutes major news in the UK. Was it well covered in the mainstream media in Italy? Or even in Germany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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