TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 This article should be compulsory reading for all. I was away in France when that poor child's body was washed up so was not completely sure I'd translated the article correctly saying the family had been safe in Turkey since 2012.Farage of course, as on so many issues, has been correct about this from the outset, asylum only for a truly persecuted group, the Syrian Christians. I found the comments of the chanting of “Germany” particularly intriguing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne allisons tongues Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 What has happened is wrong and I agree people there need help. But if we as a country can find a billion pound to help them out. Why haven't we spent that money on helping people in this country who are homeless or are using food banks. Just seems a little wrong to me that these people will be homed and fed, whilst people here are left to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 What has happened is wrong and I agree people there need help. But if we as a country can find a billion pound to help them out. Why haven't we spent that money on helping people in this country who are homeless or are using food banks. Just seems a little wrong to me that these people will be homed and fed, whilst people here are left to struggle.All part and parcel of having a Tory government im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 All part and parcel of having a Tory government im afraid.I'm confused by your posts, apart from advocating not bombing innocent civilians, (if they can be differentiated from the ISIS murdering swines hiding amongst them) which I agree with wholeheartedly. You condemn Blair for bombing and invading Iraq, yet, isn't that the same Blair that led mass immigration to our shores, that led to overcrowding of our cities, to extreme pressure on our health service, to extreme pressure on our education service, to extreme pressure on our social services, to a housing crisis because of it, and discord amongst the public. At the same time as all that extra financial and physical pressure, Blair's government spent money as if it were going out of fashion and left the country bankrupt. Now it seems as if you're blaming Cameron for the whole affair. After all, it's all part of having a tory government. That government has had to balance the books from the past socialist government that went out of office with all the money gone "as we've spent it all", just as every government has had to do after the socialists have been in power, for the last sixty years.Never mind eh! we'll blame the nasty party and it'll all be okay, because everyone has short memories.So is it as a result of past policies, or because the Tories are in office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 I'm confused by your posts, apart from advocating not bombing innocent civilians, (if they can be differentiated from the ISIS murdering swines hiding amongst them) which I agree with wholeheartedly. You condemn Blair for bombing and invading Iraq, yet, isn't that the same Blair that led mass immigration to our shores, that led to overcrowding of our cities, to extreme pressure on our health service, to extreme pressure on our education service, to extreme pressure on our social services, to a housing crisis because of it, and discord amongst the public. At the same time as all that extra financial and physical pressure, Blair's government spent money as if it were going out of fashion and left the country bankrupt. Now it seems as if you're blaming Cameron for the whole affair. After all, it's all part of having a tory government. That government has had to balance the books from the past socialist government that went out of office with all the money gone "as we've spent it all", just as every government has had to do after the socialists have been in power, for the last sixty years.Never mind eh! we'll blame the nasty party and it'll all be okay, because everyone has short memories.So is it as a result of past policies, or because the Tories are in office? Not sure I get your point. I have never condoned Blair's reign as PM - infact I despise him. There was not really anything socialist about his government. Although to be fair, much of the financial problems were due to the banks. The tories did a good job on making it look like it was Labour.There are many reasons i dont paticularly like the tories, but thats another thread altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Not sure I get your point. I have never condoned Blair's reign as PM - infact I despise him. There was not really anything socialist about his government. Although to be fair, much of the financial problems were due to the banks. The tories did a good job on making it look like it was Labour.There are many reasons i dont paticularly like the tories, but thats another thread altogether! So the country was run by Labour for thirteen years, but in that time it was the banks that caused the problems and the Tories made it look like it was the Labour party. Can you tell me how much of the country's money the banks actually spent/wasted on free university education, housing benefits for the new immigrants, health care for the immigrants, education for the new immigrants, because I'm of the opinion that it was the government that was in control of government spending, not the banks.Of course the banks gained hugely from the private funding initiatives, put in place by the then labour government to pay for the massive spending spree they had after selling the family silver, sorry gold.But it was nothing to do with Labour, it was all the banks fault, aided and abetted by the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted September 7, 2015 Report Share Posted September 7, 2015 Just watched that video about 20 minutes ago. Raises some great points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Sorry but I think we have to help our own who are really in need. Many English families in poverty. People still living on the streets. Old people dying simply because they can't afford to heat their homes. It was sad to see that boy on the beach but that can't mean we open our borders to them. Last week Cameron was saying all the right things and would only provide financial help howevet it now seems public pressure means a change of heart. Letting them in is only going to send the wrong message and encourage more to travel putting their lives at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/106477 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/106477Oh dear. The person who wrote that can't speak English, so the petition doesn't bode that well really does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Sorry but I think we have to help our own who are really in need. Many English families in poverty. People still living on the streets. Old people dying simply because they can't afford to heat their homes. It was sad to see that boy on the beach but that can't mean we open our borders to them. Last week Cameron was saying all the right things and would only provide financial help howevet it now seems public pressure means a change of heart. Letting them in is only going to send the wrong message and encourage more to travel putting their lives at risk.After World War 2 we had huge numbers of refugees/immigration. That's when the country was financially ruined.Only difference now is that the refugees are mostly from Africa, instead of Europe.The argument that immigrants are the cause of poverty in the UK is completely ignorant and untrue. Been through that on here 100 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Oh dear. The person who wrote that can't speak English, so the petition doesn't bode that well really does it?106,099 Signatures so far, imagine how many more if the person who wrote it could speak "English". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 106,099 Signatures so far, imagine how many more if the person who wrote it could speak "English".And I bet 95% of them shop in Iceland and Argos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 And I bet 95% of them shop in Iceland and Argos.Meaning what, only people who shop in Waitrose and M&S are allowed a voice ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 And I bet 95% of them shop in Iceland and Argos.I think we can call this Collis 1's 'Emily Thornberry moment'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Meaning what, only people who shop in Waitrose and M&S are allowed a voice ? I think we can call this Collis 1's 'Emily Thornberry moment'.I was being facetious. Luckily, I am not a politician so I can get away with it. However, it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to work out that the petition is very wide of the mark. I really don't know where these people dream these things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 After World War 2 we had huge numbers of refugees/immigration. That's when the country was financially ruined.Only difference now is that the refugees are mostly from Africa, instead of Europe.The argument that immigrants are the cause of poverty in the UK is completely ignorant and untrue. Been through that on here 100 times. We really didn't. The biggest group was ex Polish servicemen, who incidentally were vilified by trade unions in Scotland for not embracing the socialist utopia that their home land had become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 So, a scenario, say a mid-aged female charity worker who has paid her tax, national insurance throughout her working life, has no children lives at home with her parents, is on the housing waiting list. She now has to wait a further 20 years for a Council flat because of economic migrants who have five children and another on the way with no way of supporting them. Fair? Does that promote a socially responsible way of life. About time we fully embraced true socialist thinking, as in China with their maximum 'one child per family' policy reward those who are socially responsible, don't reward those who act in a manner that damages the common good. As for our 'Greens' ... what hypocrites! Let them in.... but we'll be the first in the queue to protest (rightly) about building even more houses on green fields and wildlife sanctuaries and complain about unsustainable and cruel factory farming practices that will be even more necessary to feed us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 We really didn't. The biggest group was ex Polish servicemen, who incidentally were vilified by trade unions in Scotland for not embracing the socialist utopia that their home land had become.We really did.Following the end of the war, substantial groups of people from Soviet controlled territories settled in Britain, particularly Poles (about 40,000 in 5 years). That's forgetting the thousands of Jews, and others displaced during the war.We also encouraged immigration from Commonwealth countries (White people can be immigrants too you know). To a large extent this was to help rebuild the country as there was a shortage of labour.Immigration into the UK was at a very slow rate before the war. Afterwards, it began to increase at a steady rate, I believe we took over 2 million in a 30-40 year gap after the war - but thats just an estimate because some were unaccounted for. It kind of makes accepting 20,000 Syrian refugees seem somewhat insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 What price a world where the 6th wealthiest country on earth can ensure it's working citizens (let alone those without jobs) don't have to use food banks AND we can provide assistance to refugees fleeing war and persecution. It seems perverse to me that people are making an argument (not without some justification) that we should help homeless and disadvantaged British people before we help Syrian refugees. We shouldn't have to choose between tax payers being able to feed their own kids and providing basic humanitarian aid to people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I was being facetious. Luckily, I am not a politician so I can get away with it. However, it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to work out that the petition is very wide of the mark. I really don't know where these people dream these things up. Is it though ? Just because its not worded elagantly, does not mean it is how people are feeling. After all the rhetoric that people have had rammed down their throats by politicians and the media perhaps we all just want a bit of straight forward honsety and the right to express a opinion that may upset a few leftie do gooders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 What price a world where the 6th wealthiest country on earth can ensure it's working citizens (let alone those without jobs) don't have to use food banks AND we can provide assistance to refugees fleeing war and persecution. It seems perverse to me that people are making an argument (not without some justification) that we should help homeless and disadvantaged British people before we help Syrian refugees. We shouldn't have to choose between tax payers being able to feed their own kids and providing basic humanitarian aid to people.... but one day, sometime in the future, UK socialists (and religions) will start talking about 'social responsibilities and the common good' rather than an individual's 'social rights'. That's when I'll join them and not begrudge paying my taxes.... but I'm not holding my breath. It's all about sustainability, which is just basic commonsense but lost in this world of human 'greed' on one side and human 'rights without responsibilities' on the other. Let's hope some sensible humans (Attenborough for one - why the ****isn't he in the House of Lords he talks more sense than the rest combined) can get some traction and start desperately needed change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Is it though ? Just because its not worded elagantly, does not mean it is how people are feeling. After all the rhetoric that people have had rammed down their throats by politicians and the media perhaps we all just want a bit of straight forward honsety and the right to express a opinion that may upset a few leftie do gooders. I understand that many people share that opinion, but it is wrong. Saying that immigration is causing the poverty and inequality in the UK and that migrants are all conspiring to turn the UK into a Muslim country (as the petition you have endorsed says) is utter nonsense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 I understand that many people share that opinion. But I am sorry, saying that immigration is causing the poverty and inequality in the UK and that migrants are all conspiring to turn the UK into a Muslim country (as the petition you have endorsed says) is utter nonsense! No cant see anything in the petition statement that says immagration is causing poverty and inequality in the UK, what its does say is it costs our "goverment millions". Also it also says "many" not all but you read it as you will. Another two thousand added since i posted the link speaks volumes. Any way I should have stopped replying to you when you made predujicial judgements on the kind of people who would sign the petition, making you no different than the originator of the petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Jimmer Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 No cant see anything in the petition statement that says immagration is causing poverty and inequality in the UK, what its does say is it costs our "goverment millions". Also it also says "many" not all but you read it as you will. Another two thousand added since i posted the link speaks volumes. Any way I should have stopped replying to you when you made predujicial judgements on the kind of people who would sign the petition, making you no different than the originator of the petition. The petition says the nasty foreigners are 'taking all the benefits', which is why I made the link to poverty. Infact, they are not. And even so, the welfare bill in this country is still very small compared to the amount of the money that is swallowed up by corporate tax evasion, banks etc.I find it interesting that in your last post you admitted that the author of the petition was prejudiced though?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 £410 billion a year to fund the welfare state is not a small amount.Estimated tax avoidance and evasion don't even total half that figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Its no wonder Cameron is so reluctant to take refugees. He knows that all the cuts his government has made to councils and public services means we dont have the resources to help. The reason we don't have more resources is because of the shift of wealth from the poor to the rich through welfare cuts and tax reductions. The reason why Cameron needs to make cuts is to finance this. The answer is to tax the rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUEBRIT66 Posted September 8, 2015 Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Sorry my mistake should read "according to you" at the end of the sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted September 8, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 We really did.Following the end of the war, substantial groups of people from Soviet controlled territories settled in Britain, particularly Poles (about 40,000 in 5 years). That's forgetting the thousands of Jews, and others displaced during the war.We also encouraged immigration from Commonwealth countries (White people can be immigrants too you know). To a large extent this was to help rebuild the country as there was a shortage of labour.Immigration into the UK was at a very slow rate before the war. Afterwards, it began to increase at a steady rate, I believe we took over 2 million in a 30-40 year gap after the war - but thats just an estimate because some were unaccounted for. It kind of makes accepting 20,000 Syrian refugees seem somewhat insignificant. the immigrants after the war were filling dead men's shoes, now we don't have any spare shoes, so even more people will go barefoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted September 8, 2015 Admin Report Share Posted September 8, 2015 Been some interesting stuff on the radio, the economic reporters were saying that Germany is on downward trend in population and there is likely to be 10 million less German citizens in a few years time because of falling birthrates. They actually need the immigrants and the economic opinion is that they have been clever in offering places to the young and fit who have had the will, determination and stamina to get there, as they will become employed,pay taxes and make an economic contribution. Whereas we are offering to take those from the camps nearest the borders, where the very young, old and less determind are staying, which will give us a long term cost, as the elderly will never contribute, the young adults who weren't determind to get to Europe at any cost won't be driven to succeed and the kids will need schooling etc. until they grow up and contribute.Maybe economists and Frau Merkel aren't so daft after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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