cidered abroad Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 37 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said: I don't believe that at all. You need a stable infrastructure from which to build. I'm sure the 5 pillars will evolve as we become more successful, after all the stadium will be built and the training facilities will have been put in place. And in a couple of years, how many more Academy boys will be in the side or knocking loudly on the door? If we get two a year making it permanently to our first team, selling one for a big fee every couple of years, supporters will have a totally different view on the "under 24" pillar. We have started to build and it will not happen overnight, but it will be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: Community Engagement and promoting "health, social inclusion, participation and education" via the Community Trust. Investing in the academy and youth development to bring young players through. Aiming to sign young players with potential who'll increase in value and having a database of potential talent so we have good ideas for future targets in all positions. Financial control and prudence Building a new stadium and investing in training facilities. Right: now, then, cards on the table, I'm a strategist - no, not a gamer, I develop strategies and business plans for a living. Not in football, but hey, it's the same principles. So, my assessment of the five pillars, which are in effect a series of objectives and a kind of mission statement: Community engagement, etc: you always have to have an awareness of the environment in which you work. City are not going to attract floating fans; they can't pull in people via TV; so they have to go out and get 'em. Community engagement is crucial. For a good example, look at Millwall, who've really done a good job. This is a MUST these days, for any organisation - you can't ignore your current and future customers - it's sound business sense SL is rich. Bristol City are not. SL may quit, move on, etc etc. Let's be honest, no-one will join City rather than (say) QPR or Burnley or other Championship clubs - we aren't strong enough. So we need to grow our own. We've all been banging on about this forever, but are finally seeing some fruit - Joe Bryan, for example. See point 2, above. Sound business sense - develop organically from within, acquire when necessary, but don't risk too much - spread the risk and invest in potential growth. It's a cost-effective strategy: you may get the odd duffer, or kid who doesn't quite come through, or it doesn't work out - or you might get a nailed on star. Who the hell had heard of Kodjia before he signed? Yet he looks a real find, albeit a little raw... See point 2, above. We have to live within our means. Bleating about SL getting his chequebook out and moaning that we are a 'big' club is pointless: we have to grow as a financial entity, which will enable us to enhance the team, which will make us better, etc etc. For examples of clubs who over-reached and nearly died, look at...er, us, Portsmouth, Bolton, Bradford, the list goes on... These are the club's main fixed assets, which need to be enhanced to generate revenue. The 'old' AG was crap. Old, cramped, outdated, poorly laid out - but above all, it made NO MONEY outside match days. A fixed asset that sits idle for 6 days out of 7 is a terrible waste of money and potential. And a nice ground and facilities will help attract players; one would imagine some kid who's being chased by 3 or 4 clubs might come to the one with the nicest ground - I don't know - but Bristol's a lovely place, so if the ground's nice as well, this might just swing it. In short - it's nothing earth-shattering or innovative, but it is a sound platform for taking the business forward. It's a plan, and having been a City fan for 40 years it's about funking time we had one! Everyone seems to view these 'pillars' as a joke or corporate BS - but they are not, they are the basis for how the club - ANY club - should be run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMS Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Community engagement. Local football coaches including those involved with football based charities don't rate what BCFC do at the base of their player pathway. The rest. Its the pilau rice strategy. It will be thrown away in the morning ... Again .. Probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanceloto Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 My main problem with the five pillars is that not one of them mentions winning any football matches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, lanceloto said: My main problem with the five pillars is that not one of them mentions winning any football matches... Well, that's kind of the aim of the business: saying "Bristol City - we want to win games!" isn't much of a strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanceloto Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 minute ago, SecretSam said: Well, that's kind of the aim of the business: saying "Bristol City - we want to win games!" isn't much of a strategy. I'm not sure O'Driscoll got that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, lanceloto said: I'm not sure O'Driscoll got that. That would be the same O'Driscoll who got appointed as a coach at Liverpool, that little club in NW England? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Some clubs mentioned ad those who have declined. Bolton won't be back up anytime soon, nor will Wigan they don't have long run fanbase. Blackburn's decline was entirely self inflicted, sacking Big Sam for Steve Kean so they could return, in right circs- prior to Venkys they were really well run. Portsmouth have steadied ship but Championship at best for them anytime soon. Five pillars isn't the worst policy moving forward. Bryan established in the side is excellent and Burns and Reid, time will tell..we had a flawed academy I feel for some time until this, surely a reason why so many managers were reluctant to use it. Now it seems to be on the up. the other pillars I broadly support, agree with so long as we sign experience when necessary. FFP makes these pillars fairly necessary anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishponds_Red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 3 hours ago, 'keepuplino' said: League 1 Ambition..... We'll struggle to maintain Championship status let alone Premier league!!! This explains why no one would join us i suppose, Lansdown wouldn't pay the wages!! Why the negativity?! We've made some great loan singings, we've finally got a spokes person for the board and we've started to hit a bit of form for the first time this season. IMO things are looking up for the first time this season since Brentford at home! 22 minutes ago, lanceloto said: My main problem with the five pillars is that not one of them mentions winning any football matches... This has to be a joke right?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Mr Popodopolous said: ..we had a flawed academy I feel for some time until this, surely a reason why so many managers were reluctant to use it. I think part of the problem was that we had managers who wouldn't use it. If you develop kids and play them, and they fail, so be it. But if you develop them and don't give them the chance, how can you judge your success? And the academy must be doing something right or big clubs wouldn't keep poaching our players from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanceloto Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Fishponds_Red said: This has to be a joke right?! It was tongue in cheek yes... I'm fine with the Club having the five pillars. Though I'm not sure why they need to share the 5 pillars with us except as an excuse for not winning matches. My fear is that they will hide behind the pillars instead of standing aloft them... Quite deep that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretSam Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 minute ago, lanceloto said: hough I'm not sure why they need to share the 5 pillars with us except as an excuse for not winning matches. My fear is that they will hide behind the pillars instead of standing aloft them... Quite deep that... Because we are effectively the customers of the club, and therefore stakeholders in its success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Chappers said: I presume they have been re-stated. Does seem sensible really, running the club in a sustainable manner. I'd be more concerned with the return of the Four Tops. I'll be there . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishponds_Red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, lanceloto said: It was tongue in cheek yes... I'm fine with the Club having the five pillars. Though I'm not sure why they need to share the 5 pillars with us except as an excuse for not winning matches. My fear is that they will hide behind the pillars instead of standing aloft them... Quite deep that... Yes, i agree they didn't and they could but, to me, MA doesn't seem the sort of guy that's going to hide behind anything. I would guess that we're paying the likes of Baker and Tomlin an absolute fortune and to me that indicates SL was willing to splash the cash for survival, ready to push on next season. Mind you I could be wrong tho! Edited February 8, 2016 by Fishponds_Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, CotswoldRed said: I agree it can be done and I'd like us to do it the same way if possible. We need something more than these clubs can offer better facilities better staff that support them - this would be better than spending £9m on someone like Gray. Splashing money around on players by itself is no good if we cant offer something marketabley better to people that already have too much money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 From the radio interview it seemed clear that neither Lee nor MA would slavishly follow the five pillars re signings Lee talked of short term as well as long term goals and also that one of his main jobs was player recruitment, but he also said there were excellent players in The Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, SecretSam said: I think part of the problem was that we had managers who wouldn't use it. If you develop kids and play them, and they fail, so be it. But if you develop them and don't give them the chance, how can you judge your success? And the academy must be doing something right or big clubs wouldn't keep poaching our players from it. Consistently? O'Driscoll for all of his faults had a reputation for steady development. Golbourne was one who got away, Dave Cotterill great bit of business on one level but he does play at Championship, Liam Rosenior yes. There's three in about 12,/13 years. The rest I dunno, sure others can think of others who have moved onto PL or Championship. I think the academy has improved in recent years but I am struggling to think of too many examples. Skuse of course, absolutely Skuse!! Edited February 8, 2016 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Is it a coincidence that since the introduction of this concept, the only success we've had was when it was, if not abandoned, significantly pushed into the background? Edited February 8, 2016 by Frenchay Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderMB Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) The five pillars in themselves aren't bad, as already said. The problem seems to come down to micromanagement of a head coach. If your club philosophy is ultimately limiting your coaches ability to coach then it's going to be a problem. I think a lot of people look at Millen, McInnes, and SOD now, and they wonder why successful people fail with us, and then succeed again afterwards. Additionally, Cotterill seemed to do away with some of this micromanagement, and we destroyed League 1. Each of the pillars are sound concepts, but we apply them at the wrong time. They would improve a mid table club with a solid foundation, but trying to apply them to a club battling relegation is insane. As the saying goes, premature optimisation is the root of all evil. Edited February 8, 2016 by EnderMB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 While the brickies are constructing the 5 pillars can we ensure at least one of them concentrates on the actual building aka ' First team squad ' Sounds like a job for Moxy, Bomber, Nev n Co..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) In case anyone was wondering what they looked like (MA just emailed me this and says it also demonstrates the ' pathway forward ' (I think the 'step' idea is a new twist with the appointment of Lee) Edited February 8, 2016 by BobBobSuperBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 As an interesting comparison I also e-mailed Mr Higgs at the Minimal He confirms their plans are also progressing well and like MA was kind enough send me an artists impression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gornagain Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 This is from Adam Baker's interview with Jon Lansdown, published on the Official Website 10/6/13 "Player Recruitment and Talent Identification Revealed by the club’s majority shareholder Steve Lansdown in January, the club has taken a major change in direction with regards to its policy on recruitment. The club aims to sign players aged 24 and under more often than not, with older recruits becoming an exception, rather than the norm. The club is also building up a database of young players in all positions to aid in talent identification." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, gornagain said: This is from Adam Baker's interview with Jon Lansdown, published on the Official Website 10/6/13 "Player Recruitment and Talent Identification Revealed by the club’s majority shareholder Steve Lansdown in January, the club has taken a major change in direction with regards to its policy on recruitment. The club aims to sign players aged 24 and under more often than not, with older recruits becoming an exception, rather than the norm. The club is also prioritising the purchase of FIFA 15 to aid in talent identification." Corrected that for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, bs3 said: Wigan ,Bolton and Blackburn have all had success over the last 20 years that we can only dream and they will be back in the prem before we will. The same goes for Leeds , Portsmouth and others, Clubs will go through go through good times and bad but for Bristol City a good time is the odd couple of seasons in the championship while clubs no bigger or greater and sometimes smaller than ours , are winning cups ,playing in Europe. There is no doubt we are the biggest under achievers' in the country. I think Bolton and Pompey might be stretching it but any of the others could beat us to it; time will tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The five pillars is all very well, but how do vomitories fit into this? And will we need another new roof truss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 36 minutes ago, OddBallJim said: The five pillars is all very well, but how do vomitories fit into this? And will we need another new roof truss? Well. I`m not going to be sitting behind one that`s for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 4 hours ago, Antman said: SL has been this inconsistent over a very long period. The crazy transfer policy that brought in the likes of Thorpe and Akinbiyi was under his control, (SL was finance director) when they didn't work out, we saw exactly the same approach - lock everything down and pull in your horns. Its a terribly approach to business management that is a very effective way of racking up debt (£90 million now in total? some one can check the books and correct me) it also only serves to utterly destroy the fans confidence and given that he is intent on building this whole Bristol Sport ethos, IMO it's a dumbass way of running the show. I can wholly accept the principles of the '5 pillars', in an age when the hugely successful clubs only exist in a distorted bubble, where financial probity is out the window and their survival is dependant on massive benefactors (although maybe we should note that John Henry, the Liverpool owners wealth is equal to SL) to strike out and try and build a sustainable model is laudable, but... You have to accept that you are competing with the likes of Watford and a host of parachute payments for clubs who have visited the Premier League and that means that realistically you will struggle, unless you hit the freak wave and do what we did last year. I genuinely believe last season was largely a happy accident - the seventh wave - that Cotterill was lucky enough to ride on, I'm not convinced how much control he had over events, and that was shown this season. The PR surrounding this club is laughable -the whole billy big bollocks approach to appointing the likes of Mark Ashton and the 'Team' is pretty meaningless if the 5 Pillars threshold is set so low we realistically will always remain a league 1 team. There is an argument that maybe SL ought to give it a go, a proper go and try and get up to the Prem, but that would require strategic, clever and sustained investment at the right moment and I'm not sure that he is capable of that or actually that football is the sport to be trying it !! maybe thats his plan - the rugby is more of a target for him. LJ's appointment is rather like those helium balloons the day after the party - they float around at knee level slowly dropping to the floor, still pretty, but somehow depressingly downbeat. I cannot accept that a moderately successful lower league manager, and forget the hype, thats all he is, however eloquent, is the answer to our plan right now. SL likes his cronies - just look at the board - he thought he had a crony in SC, but it bit him on the backside in the long run - how he keeps the fanbase onside from here on in will be interesting. Akinbiyi we got a good season out of and then sold on for 3.something million, Thorpe eventually scored us plenty of goals before leaving on a free. These are exactly the sort of players we should be aiming to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 why do people find it so hard to understand that if the right player came along we will sign them regardless of age, Goldborne for example is 27 kodja was 26, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: why do people find it so hard to understand that if the right player came along we will sign them regardless of age, Goldborne for example is 27 kodja was 26, Maybe actual facts don't fit particular agendas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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