CotswoldRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) 27 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said: Maybe actual facts don't fit particular agendas? Why do people refer to other people's views as 'agendas'? Do you have an agenda, or would you say otherwise because you perceive your views to be entirely based on facts? Just curious. Edited February 8, 2016 by CotswoldRed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Five pillars? Why don't they go the whole hog and introduce the ten commandments:- 1. Thou shalt honour the five pillars 2. Thou shalt not stand 3.Thou shalt not sing 4.Thou shalt not swear 5. Thou shalt not drink up thee cider .... you can fill in the rest yourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Monkeh said: why do people find it so hard to understand that if the right player came along we will sign them regardless of age, Goldborne for example is 27 kodja was 26, The perfect examples to show it is not rigid. We could probably make a profit already if we wanted to cash in on Kodjia. (Hope we don't) And with Golbourne being a Bristol boy, the fee of approx £300,000 would appear to be very reasonable for one who we may never recoup any money but who may well give us the next 4 to 6 years. That pillar has to be more flexible than some of the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The pillar about signing young player doesn't say older ones won't be signed does it? Pretty sure it's about primarily signing younger players, not exclusively. So that we don't end up with a squad of players past their best, but instead have a squad of hungry younger players, complimented by a few who will have the nous and know how that you get from being experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antman Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Just Red said: Akinbiyi we got a good season out of and then sold on for 3.something million, Thorpe eventually scored us plenty of goals before leaving on a free. These are exactly the sort of players we should be aiming to sign. my point wasn't about the players themselves, it was about the fact we went all out and spent big, but results on the pitch didn't carry through and so SL then pulled the purse strings in again - an example of his endless yo-yoing Don't forget Soren Anderson and Bo 'the Cat' Anderson - or even Benny and the big plans at that time. it all went out the window and we got Pulis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnclosureSurge Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 13 hours ago, LondonBristolian said: I'd be really interested to know what it is about the principles of the five pillars that makes so many of the fans find them inherently terrible. An excellent post, LondonB. I think some fans, myself included, were quite incredulous that we as a club - run by a billionaire whose money was made from a company which surely has a similar set of aims (not similar aims, but a list) - didn't have this in place in either black&white form or just in people's heads/in the Board meetings minutes. What we/I find terrible is that, despite 1982, we didn't seem to even have a whiff of any of this as something explicit among the people running the club. Which leads some of us to think, well, surely they didn't have a list of objectives including those negative attributes you correctly point out (eg the squalid waste of money on people like D James), so what did the club have as stated aims (beyond the usual get to the Prem)? Did we have nothing written or discussed? It's tempting to think this was the case. Also, whilst having nothing inherently against these pillars, we/I are/am concerned they only get trundled out at times of optimism/when things are going well, plus they were easily put to one side by Cotts (youth academy - he point blank said he wasn't going to play kids; £9m financial prudence? I don't see PNE or Hfld spending that yet they outstrip us easily), largely because, it seems, the club didn't have the balls to tell him to stick to them. Either we've got them or we ain't, they can't come and go on a whim. They are good aims, but it's so City to only come to this conclusion later than other clubs and then waver on them. I'm not disagreeing with yr opinion, just a bit hesitant on their tardy creation and implementation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnclosureSurge Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 8 hours ago, gornagain said: The club is also building up a database of young players in all positions to aid in talent identification." And this just makes it worse! I remember the club going on about this database they were heralding ... WTF? Didn't we have a list of players from up & down the country/abroad who would be potential targets? Or did we only go out shopping once we started losing/had injuries? It's laughable that we didn't have lists of players ready to be talked to if/when their contracts were up/we saw a future hole in the squad. Reactive as ever, not proactive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) 53 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said: And this just makes it worse! I remember the club going on about this database they were heralding ... WTF? Didn't we have a list of players from up & down the country/abroad who would be potential targets? Or did we only go out shopping once we started losing/had injuries? It's laughable that we didn't have lists of players ready to be talked to if/when their contracts were up/we saw a future hole in the squad. Reactive as ever, not proactive. We had lists made up and couldnt get deals done mcguire smith dack gray gilby bradshaw gayle clough and these are the players we know about one thing we can't do and lots of idiots fail to understand as they think it's football manager? Is to force other clubs to accept bids or force players to sign contracts we are Bristol city not Real Madrid it most players don't have an ambition to play for us we are tiny compared to 20 other teams in this league Edited February 8, 2016 by Monkeh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Team In Keynsham Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 4 hours ago, CotswoldRed said: Why do people refer to other people's views as 'agendas'? Do you have an agenda, or would you say otherwise because you perceive your views to be entirely based on facts? Just curious. In the event you are actually curious, I was merely noting the fact that the agenda of attacking a supposed club policy re player age on recruitment is rendered somewhat pointless by evidence to the contrary. As for me, I am hoping we are getting back to the 5/10 Year Plan of the Scott Davison era, or maybe it was the regime before his: if I recall it involved winning trophies and getting European football. Not sure if it involved pillars, but I do remember some glossy brochures that had me sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, Monkeh said: We had lists made up and couldnt get deals done mcguire smith dack gray gilby bradshaw gayle clough and these are the players we know about one thing we can't do and lots of idiots fail to understand as they think it's football manager? Is to force other clubs to accept bids or force players to sign contracts we are Bristol city not Real Madrid it most players don't have an ambition to play for us we are tiny compared to 20 other teams in this league From memory Bunn and Lees too. Maybe Elliott Bennett on perm, though unsure about him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 hour ago, One Team In Keynsham said: As for me, I am hoping we are getting back to the 5/10 Year Plan of the Scott Davison era, or maybe it was the regime before his: if I recall it involved winning trophies and getting European football. Not sure if it involved pillars, but I do remember some glossy brochures that had me sold. I did like Scott Davidson, but just saying I want to win a cup or get into Europe are aspirations not a strategy to make it happen. That's a bit like Greg Dyke saying England should aim to win the World Cup in 2022. St George aside he has no power or influence over the Premiership clubs to develop and nurture English talent to make it happen. Interestingly, the clubs that are doing most to develop English players are the likes of Tottenham & Southampton. Southampton has always developed talent. After their disastrous spending spree off the back of Bale's money Spurs seem to have taken of different tact. Young progressive manager that is nurturing and developing talent from within and buying promising talent like Dele Alli from outside the club. Sounds like a plan to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The basic concept of Five Pillars is sound, and other than SL spending vast millions, the only realistic way for BCFC to move forward. There will be occasional blips as pragmatism comes to the fore, and we may have to be patient as it takes time to bear fruit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 So are the 5 pillars to be built on the foundation of patience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Does anybody know if shareholders from back in the BCFC82 days can/did turn up at the AGM? I did not get an invite which shareholders usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Interesting to read some considered and intelligent views about the resurrection of the five pillars rhetoric. Have to say there's a lot I agree wth there. Yes, the ideas contained in the blueprint are essentially sound, but frankly they are no more than old-fashioned, down-to-earth common sense and you'd hope they'd be the basic principles on which any competent bunch of directors would attempt to run a club of this size. They ought not to even need stating. The fact that they are reiterated like some sort of master plan devised by jolly clever, switched-on guys in suits only serves to emphasise the directionless muddle that preceded them. What makes people cynical is not that the core ideas aren't right, but the silly, overblown and self-important corporate twaddle in which they come wrapped. That, and the fact that the board have yet to demonstrate that they have the resolve to stick to the strategy long-term and not collectively soil themselves, panic and throw the whole philosophy out the window when in a tight corner and an ability to hold one's nerve and maintain a steady course is called for. In the end you get judged on actions, not words. If we're still consistently implementing this approach in three to five years then much of the understandable scepticism here will have evaporated, but based on recent experience I'm not holding my breath and the occupants of the boardroom still have a lot to do to convince supporters that they can walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 There's nothing wrong with a corporate structure. There's nothing wrong with deciding that your corporate structure is centred around 5 pillars, or 4 or even 1. The 5 pillars that City decided on were met with derision because they were 1) overplayed 2) coincided with a very bad time. SL has remedied the first problem, by removing Jnr from being in such a public position. From being a rigid framework constantly being the reason behind every decision, flexibility was shown under Cotts in terms of the approach, this also helped. As for the second point, many of the culture changes behind the scenes have already been implemented, so it won't seem such a massive change right in the middle of a huge relegation battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good post. Valid points, and well argued. Hard to disagree wth any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 On 2/8/2016 at 11:51, bs3 said: Wigan ,Bolton and Blackburn have all had success over the last 20 years that we can only dream and they will be back in the prem before we will. The same goes for Leeds , Portsmouth and others, Clubs will go through go through good times and bad but for Bristol City a good time is the odd couple of seasons in the championship while clubs no bigger or greater and sometimes smaller than ours , are winning cups ,playing in Europe. There is no doubt we are the biggest under achievers' in the country. Don't forget all our success's in the JPT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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