glynriley Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, ashton_fan said: You obviously don't get the point, if nobody knows what he does he can't get blamed for anything, that's how most managers operate and why they have fancy job titles You don't sound much an Ashton fan to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 27 minutes ago, RedRaw said: Maybe, during his next interview, MA should hold a can of Natch and have a smearing of Clarks pie down his tie to endear himself to those moaning.......he's from Dudley FFS, can't be that difficult to understand From Dudley eh? How about him recruiting Sir Lenny Henry as Club Comedian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 What's your definition of plain English then? English as spoken in the 1980s? The 1960s? The 19th century? Shakespearean English? Language evolves. Get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Bullshit baffles brains...or so I'm told Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Yeah but, no but, Ashton sounds like a smoothie and with twinge of Brummie. That's why a few of us take him seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 hour ago, spudski said: Have the 'masses' become so dumbed down that they now can't understand plain English? I really don't understand the venom being thrown at MA. He speaks eloquently, is smart and professional in appearance, and since being here the Club have been more informative about what's going on. What do people want...a bloke moaning all the time, talking like a wurzel, and wearing a gold chain and a pot of hair gel and snarling his nostrils...oh....hang on a minute...I get it now ;-) In all seriousness...the club seem damned if they do...damned if they don't. All I can see from certain fans is a reverse snobbery. Anyone that allows their minds to be infested with corporate speak can expect criticism when putting themselves forward in front of Joe Public. I've worked with many people who talk the same way. Never would I would to share a beer with any of them. For that reason its unlikely most will think of him as understanding a fan's point of view. Neither would I. He could do himself a favour by cutting the BS and talking properly. Does this affect his ability to do the job? In most respects, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted February 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, spudski said: Have the 'masses' become so dumbed down that they now can't understand plain English? I really don't understand the venom being thrown at MA. He speaks eloquently, is smart and professional in appearance, and since being here the Club have been more informative about what's going on. What do people want...a bloke moaning all the time, talking like a wurzel, and wearing a gold chain and a pot of hair gel and snarling his nostrils...oh....hang on a minute...I get it now ;-) In all seriousness...the club seem damned if they do...damned if they don't. All I can see from certain fans is a reverse snobbery. Seriously, just offering some kindly advice. Agree, he seems to have done reasonably well since his arrival. The two tough calls - manager and strikers - are the acid tests for me though and the jury is very much out. My original posting was just highlighting that a key skill of a COO is to effectively communicate with people. Use of management-speak words like 'synergy' will get most football supporters reaching for a puke bucket and are best left in the board room. As Mark would say, it's about 'engagement'. You don't 'engage' your football supporter audience by using language that have come out of the latest management manual. At best it can make you appear elitist, at worst, a bit of a prat. Very quickly you lose your audience - as, seemingly, is happening. People become fixated on what your next management -speak word is going to be. You lose both credibility and the entire message you are trying to communicate. Having suffered 'process' for decades in planning, design and then project management, it has a place but it certainly ain't no guarantor of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, ashton_fan said: You obviously don't get the point, if nobody knows what he does he can't get blamed for anything, that's how most managers operate and why they have fancy job titles He's been very clear what he does. If you're too ignorant to find out (it was clearly laid out in his interview with the OS and on Sound Of The City on RB) that's your own look out chum. There has been a lot wrong with the club recently and his stints at Wycombe & Watford were worrying, really really worrying. But he's here now, he's getting players through the door and a head coach within a sustainable set up. Give the man a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Moor2Sea said: Seriously, just offering some kindly advice. Agree, he seems to have done reasonably well since his arrival. The two tough calls - manager and strikers - are the acid tests for me though and the jury is very much out. My original posting was just highlighting that a key skill of a COO is to effectively communicate with people. Use of management-speak words like 'synergy' will get most football supporters reaching for a puke bucket and are best left in the board room. As Mark would say, it's about 'engagement'. You don't 'engage' your football supporter audience by using language that have come out of the latest management manual. At best it can make you appear elitist, at worst, a bit of a prat. Very quickly you lose your audience - as, seemingly, is happening. People become fixated on what your next management -speak word is going to be. You lose both credibility and the entire message you are trying to communicate. Having suffered 'process' for decades in planning, design and then project management, it has a place but it certainly ain't no guarantor of success. Exactly - if fans are focusing on his business buzzwords he only has himself to blame.... and he's showing his lack of engagement by either being unaware of it or unable to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 minute ago, CotswoldRed said: Exactly - if fans are focusing on his business buzzwords he only has himself to blame.... and he's showing his lack of engagement by either being unaware of it or unable to stop it. He doesn't have himself to blame over the tiny but vocal minority of, as Spudski put it so well, reverse snobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: Exactly - if fans are focusing on his business buzzwords he only has himself to blame.... and he's showing his lack of engagement by either being unaware of it or unable to stop it. I think the vast majority of fans are focusing on what he achieves, not what he says. He got rave reviews after his first interview on RB I recall, I've highlighted the quotes from Twitter that don't contain any big words - I have obviously missed the point today that MA is now speaking in another language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 6 minutes ago, Robin1988 said: He's been very clear what he does. If you're too ignorant to find out (it was clearly laid out in his interview with the OS and on Sound Of The City on RB) that's your own look out chum. There has been a lot wrong with the club recently and his stints at Wycombe & Watford were worrying, really really worrying. But he's here now, he's getting players through the door and a head coach within a sustainable set up. Give the man a break. It was only meant to be a joke, you're obviously a manager and I've touched a nerve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Kid in the Riot said: I think the vast majority of fans are focusing on what he achieves, not what he says. He got rave reviews after his first interview on RB I recall, I've highlighted the quotes from Twitter that don't contain any big words - I have obviously missed the point today that MA is now speaking in another language? And I think some fans only apply that particular rule to people that they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Makes me laugh. One month ago: The board are useless, we need a footballing businessman on the board who knows the business side of the game. Now: I can't bleedin understand any of the new fangled words this corporate suit be using. Why don't thee speak proper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 19 minutes ago, Robin1988 said: He doesn't have himself to blame over the tiny but vocal minority of, as Spudski put it so well, reverse snobs Reverse snobs? What a BS term. It has nothing to do with snobbery - it's about using language that it fit for purpose rather than trying to make yourself appear different from others. I'm sure he can't help it because he's spent most of his career trying to impress similar folk. It's simple - use language that is pertinent to your audience. It's no more complicated than that. For people who've had decades of listening to this garbage at work they probably don't enjoy it elsewhere. It is one of the best ways to alienate your audience. So long as he does a good job I don't really care. If he wants people to get 'on board' with his thinking and (dare I say it) be liked, he'll need to sound less like a politician for me. In a world where most football clubs are becoming increasingly removed from the fanbase, this doesn't help, even if it is rather minor. After his first interview I was quite positive about him. I still am. I just don't wish to endure listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: I think the vast majority of fans are focusing on what he achieves, not what he says. He got rave reviews after his first interview on RB I recall, I've highlighted the quotes from Twitter that don't contain any big words - I have obviously missed the point today that MA is now speaking in another language? MA is our new scapegoat (baaah). He gets it so that Pack, Wilbs, Wes and Little Lee are left alone. Just how it should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Jack Dawe said: MA is our new scapegoat (baaah). He gets it so that Pack, Wilbs, Wes and Little Lee are left alone. Just how it should be Fair play that is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 So hang on... you're seriously telling me the guy who we've appointed in the main corporate role at the club is... a bit corporate? HOLD THE FRONT PAGE LADS, WE'VE GOT A SCOOP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Fair play that is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said: So hang on... you're seriously telling me the guy who we've appointed in the main corporate role at the club is... a bit corporate? HOLD THE FRONT PAGE LADS, WE'VE GOT A SCOOP!!! SL manages to do it and seem reasonably normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: MA is our new scapegoat (baaah). He gets it so that Pack, Wilbs, Wes and Little Lee are left alone. Just how it should be Masterstroke from the club. Well done BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Twisted flax?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Red Right Hand said: Masterstroke from the club. Well done BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Twisted flax?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said: Eye of Horus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Eye of Horus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, CotswoldRed said: SL manages to do it and seem reasonably normal. SL's an accountant by trade. The whole role involves explaining complex things in layman's terms so he's used to it. Do I find MA a bit corporate? Yes, obviously. Could he simplify his communication at times? Yes, although the extent that he goes into corporate babble is wildly exaggerated in this thread. Is it particularly relevant to how well he does his job? Not necessarily. Personally I don't particularly feel the need to like Mark Ashton as long as he runs the club well. The ultimate measure of his success will be how well the club is run in a year's time. Let's hope it's somewhat better than it has been in the past. If he's a bit corporate whilst doing that, that's no concern of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Just now, Esmond Million's Bung said: Eye of Horus? Finally somebody is raising the tone around here... Btw, that's the music question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 39 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: From Dudley eh? How about him recruiting Sir Lenny Henry as Club Comedian? Would n't that contravene the Trades Descriptions Act ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 16 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said: Reverse snobs? What a BS term. It has nothing to do with snobbery - it's about using language that it fit for purpose rather than trying to make yourself appear different from others. I'm sure he can't help it because he's spent most of his career trying to impress similar folk. It's simple - use language that is pertinent to your audience. It's no more complicated than that. For people who've had decades of listening to this garbage at work they probably don't enjoy it elsewhere. It is one of the best ways to alienate your audience. So long as he does a good job I don't really care. If he wants people to get 'on board' with his thinking and (dare I say it) be liked, he'll need to sound less like a politician for me. In a world where most football clubs are becoming increasingly removed from the fanbase, this doesn't help, even if it is rather minor. After his first interview I was quite positive about him. I still am. I just don't wish to endure listening to him. Nail on the head for me. The 'reverse snobs' term made me chuckle also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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