Away kit: NOW RELEASED (Merged)

[Milo]

4 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

75% of our entire fanbase. All 203 of them.

No need for the sarcasm. You know how polls work, no one's claiming that's the entire fan base. It does mean however that it's not unreasonable for fans' representatives to say that blue won't be welcomed by some of the fanbase. I'm totally with WTMS on this one, it's not like there's a shortage of colours to choose from. If you know that some supporters (and that poll indicates at least 150 out of 200 motivated to comment) would rather not have blue for all the well-rehearsed reasons, why take an action that will upset them? For what it's worth, I've heard rumours about blue as the away kit but no evidence. At the last FAN meeting I asked Andrew Billingham to reassure that it wouldn't be blue and he refused to comment. The feedback from FAN members after I asked that question was quite strongly that blue would be unwise and unwelcome. Quite what it says about supporter consultation that Bristol Sport weren't prepared to engage with FAN over the colour or give any feedback as if it were a trade secret I'll leave the reader to decide.

[richwwtk]

6 minutes ago, WTMS said:

Maybe somebody ( yourself?) would like to outline what the benefits are of knowingly doing something supporters would not like?

In answer to your question. City have avoided blue kits for decades because posing fans off, a minority or not simply was not on/ a step too far,  As good a reason as any.

My view is that a football club cannot be run as a democracy with everybody being catered for all of the time. The people in charge of running the club at any point in time are responsible for making decisions such as this and history will judge whether they did a good job or not.

I am not saying that the views of fans should be run over roughshod either. Whilst the people in charge make the decisions they also bear a responsibility to the history and traditions of the club. At the same time, they are forging new history and tradition with every decision, and the blue away kit does make sense when viewed in the overall picture of Bristol Sport. I really don't believe there would be a massive difference in the amount of kits sold, as the away kit is a smaller volume item anyway, and for every person not buying it because it's blue there will be someone else buying it for the novelty value at least.

Were you supportive of the plan to move to Ashton Vale? In my eyes that would have been a much bigger betrayal of our history and culture and was against it, whilst I can't see the same amount of emotion behind the colour of our away kit for a single season. Because it will be a single season, the away kit changes more often than some people change socks!

[Midlands Robin]

We ran out at Wembley in 2000 for the LDV Auto paint van trophy in that awful gold, blue and white kit that must have been offered to City because it was the only one they could deliver by Monday.

It wouldn't be the end of the world for me if we ran out in Navy blue. We could play butt naked for all I care as long as we play well it doesn't matter.

[View from the Dolman]

17 minutes ago, Milo said:

You know how polls work

Yes sometimes they say one thing and then the real result is very different. 

17 minutes ago, Milo said:

It does mean however that it's not unreasonable for fans' representatives to say that blue won't be welcomed by some of the fanbase.

Aaron Wilbraham wasn't welcomed by some of the fanbase. Should we have not signed him on that basis? Should we hand back our medals for something that was won without the full approval of every supporter?

17 minutes ago, Milo said:

If you know that some supporters (and that poll indicates at least 150 out of 200 motivated to comment) would rather not have blue for all the well-rehearsed reasons, why take an action that will upset them?

See: Aaron Wilbraham and his League and JPT medals. That's why. Ok, a blue shirt probably won't win you the league. But an opinion on here won't either. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Charliesboots]

Have I just wandered into an alternate reality or are we seriously debating playing in a Blue away kit?

We do not play in blue kits, we may have in the distant past however recent history is everything against a blue kit. 

We had people writing stern letters to 'That's Life' over our #hashtag inclusion on the latest home shirt and I would suggest we need a UN Peace Envoy appointed pretty sharpish if we roll out a blue away kit. 

We do not play in Blue. 

[WTMS]

16 minutes ago, !james said:

So what about when we removed the robin badge in the mid 90s? A minority of supporters were against this but it still went ahead and was well received

 My recollection was it was not universally well received. I am not sure if we as a fan base were involved. However I would not use this as a parallel to a blue kit. BCFC did think about this during Leslie Kew's tenure, club employees with very good reason stepped in and the tradition of no blue continued.

 

7 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

My view is that a football club cannot be run as a democracy with everybody being catered for all of the time. The people in charge of running the club at any point in time are responsible for making decisions such as this and history will judge whether they did a good job or not.

I am not saying that the views of fans should be run over roughshod either. Whilst the people in charge make the decisions they also bear a responsibility to the history and traditions of the club. At the same time, they are forging new history and tradition with every decision, and the blue away kit does make sense when viewed in the overall picture of Bristol Sport. I really don't believe there would be a massive difference in the amount of kits sold, as the away kit is a smaller volume item anyway, and for every person not buying it because it's blue there will be someone else buying it for the novelty value at least.

Were you supportive of the plan to move to Ashton Vale? In my eyes that would have been a much bigger betrayal of our history and culture and was against it, whilst I can't see the same amount of emotion behind the colour of our away kit for a single season. Because it will be a single season, the away kit changes more often than some people change socks!

So what would be the benefits of causing dismay/disgust/resentment? We are Bristol Sport we do what we want?

I will politely decline putting forward a view on Ashton Vale ... It is history that did not become reality.

[Meh]

49 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Fishing.....?

No - trying to get with the times.  I think we owe one helluva lot to Bristol Sport - this club has took massive steps in the last 2 years and that is all under a vision from our parent company.

Bristol Rugby fans deserve to call the Gate home and whilst it is all red and mainly dominated by pictures of city's success I can't see how that happens.

Im guessing this subject has come up prior? Until 2 weeks ago I have not been on this forum for well over 2 years so am not aware of it but I am wholly serous and if people don't like my view then tough titties.

I work very close to the gate and my company is a corporate member so we have meetings and all sorts at AG. The comments I hear from colleagues about the facilities etc. fills me with pride and as a season ticket holder I feel very much part of Bristol Sport as that is who I pay money too.

After 30 years of going to the gate and watch it slowly over that time turn into a crap hole in terms of facilities and then what it has become now I am eternally grateful.

So no - not fishing - believing in the philosophy and embracing it fully as I can't begin to dream under Bristol Sport where we will be in another 2 years time but I believe it will be an exciting place.

[Milo]

10 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Yes sometimes they say one thing and then the real result is very different. 

Aaron Wilbraham wasn't welcomed by some of the fanbase. Should we have not signed him on that basis? Should we hand back our medals for something that was won without the full approval of every supporter?

See: Aaron Wilbraham and his League and JPT medals. That's why. Ok, a blue shirt probably won't win you the league. But an opinion on here won't either. 

As mentioned earlier, you can't run the football club by democracy, someone's got to make the decisions. The point about supporter representation is that there ought to be a benefit to both Club and supporters if there are people helping to shape the ultimate decision with views of the likely consequences of the action from the fanbase. And if you can have black, white, maybe yellow, purple & lime etc without it specifically upsetting some supporters who feel passionate that we're red and they're blue, why choose blue?

We're not talking about a signing, we're talking about our identity.

[JamesBCFC]

9 minutes ago, WTMS said:

 My recollection was it was not universally well received. I am not sure if we as a fan base were involved. However I would not use this as a parallel to a blue kit. BCFC did think about this during Leslie Kew's tenure, club employees with very good reason stepped in and the tradition of no blue continued.

 

So what would be the benefits of causing dismay/disgust/resentment? We are Bristol Sport we do what we want?

I will politely decline putting forward a view on Ashton Vale ... It is history that did not become reality.

And if the away kit isn't blue that will also be history that didn't become reality, yet the bashing carries on regardless.

At some point Ashton Vale was as much of a possibility as us having a blue away kit next, I'm sure you had an opinion on it then. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

So if the majority in favour is 60/40, that doesn't allow for the emotion that would come from the results.

1) If we got a blue away kit a large minority of fans will be angry.

2) If we don't get a blue away kit the majority will move on really fast.

If the club goes for white or black it isolates no one. If it goes for blue it may actually stop people going. 

For me I don't want blue or yellow (because yellow looks crap as a primary colour). Black, White, Purple, I don't mind but not royal blue. My Bristol shirt will suffice. 

[Silvio Dante]

21 minutes ago, Neo said:

No - trying to get with the times.  I think we owe one helluva lot to Bristol Sport - this club has took massive steps in the last 2 years and that is all under a vision from our parent company.

Bristol Rugby fans deserve to call the Gate home and whilst it is all red and mainly dominated by pictures of city's success I can't see how that happens.

Im guessing this subject has come up prior? Until 2 weeks ago I have not been on this forum for well over 2 years so am not aware of it but I am wholly serous and if people don't like my view then tough titties.

I work very close to the gate and my company is a corporate member so we have meetings and all sorts at AG. The comments I hear from colleagues about the facilities etc. fills me with pride and as a season ticket holder I feel very much part of Bristol Sport as that is who I pay money too.

After 30 years of going to the gate and watch it slowly over that time turn into a crap hole in terms of facilities and then what it has become now I am eternally grateful.

So no - not fishing - believing in the philosophy and embracing it fully as I can't begin to dream under Bristol Sport where we will be in another 2 years time but I believe it will be an exciting place.

Good Points/Post and deserves a considered response.

To me, there is a bit of a two way split here - I completely agree that we should all pull together under the BS "brand" and, like you, I welcome the transformation of AG - friends who have not seen it for years are significantly impressed.

I also agree it needs to feel like home for the Rugby, and the small corner they have at the Dolman entrance seems more of a sop than anything else.

However, unlike the away kit (which changes with the seasons), the stadium seating is part of the clubs long term identity. Even teams like Man U who were noted as playing in blue away previously have an all red stadium. The rugby clubs who share with football teams (while noting that they aren't entirely the BS model) also haven't changed seats at the football stadiums. You're really talking an unprecedented move which cuts to what people see as the heart of bcfc's identity - ie we are red. It's veering into Cardiff territory in that respect, although I get the sentiment.

For me, I would make the new West concourses predominantly rugby themed to square the issue of making Briz feel at home. However, I can't see a seating change being accepted - and on a related point, doesn't a stadium look better when the colours are uniform?

So for the reasons of:

- one colour looking better overall

- the huge resistance that would come (think away kit x10)

- The fact we can do other things without disenfranchising people

would lead me to know. Wholeheartedly agree in it together though so need to make the Rugby feel part of the wider club and make more of an effort to include them in the stadium

[richwwtk]

4 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

If the club goes for white or black it isolates no one. If it goes for blue it may actually stop people going. 

 

If anybody at all stopped attending matches because we had a blue away kit they would be a very sad individual indeed.

 

32 minutes ago, Milo said:

We're not talking about a signing, we're talking about our identity.

A blue away kit would not dilute our identity one iota, may even enhance it a little as it would fit within the wider Bristol Sport group.

I was very suspicious and quite anti Bristol Sport in the early days, but surely now just about anybody can see the improved professionalism that surrounds the club now, and it is Bristol Sport that has ushered it in.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

22 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

If anybody at all stopped attending matches because we had a blue away kit they would be a very sad individual indeed.

 

A blue away kit would not dilute our identity one iota, may even enhance it a little as it would fit within the wider Bristol Sport group.

I was very suspicious and quite anti Bristol Sport in the early days, but surely now just about anybody can see the improved professionalism that surrounds the club now, and it is Bristol Sport that has ushered it in.

Some will stop coming I'm sure. But if they keep coming they may feel betrayed slightly, re-instating their doubts of Bristol Sport. 

Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of both clubs but I'm really conscious of them getting too close to the same thing. 

[WTMS]

55 minutes ago, City169 said:

And if the away kit isn't blue that will also be history that didn't become reality, yet the bashing carries on regardless.

 

I do not understand your point. Members of the ST, FAN, admins/mods (they do tend to be informed) of websites and a club sponsor have thought Bristol City adopting blue as its away colours is a possibility for months. Bristol Sport could have quashed the rumours with a the away kit isn't blue.

 

 

[Milo]

13 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

A blue away kit would not dilute our identity one iota, may even enhance it a little as it would fit within the wider Bristol Sport group.

I was very suspicious and quite anti Bristol Sport in the early days, but surely now just about anybody can see the improved professionalism that surrounds the club now, and it is Bristol Sport that has ushered it in.

In a quite literal sense, it would be our identity. It would identify our 10 outfield players on the pitch and our supporters who wanted to wear the away top to away matches.

I agree there's a far greater degree of professionalism than ever before and I personally attribute that to more hands on deck, decision makers with more relevant experience and some high calibre recruitments. It's far from perfect though (I'm a realist, I don't expect perfection) and there's still lots of room for improvement with supporter engagement and involvement. I'm not convinced that any of the achievements that have been made relate to the Bristol Sport project - in other words the improvement relate the individuals and could have been achieved without the need to create an overarching new sport brand (which in my opinion dilutes our identity more than a blue away shirt would).

[JamesBCFC]

3 minutes ago, WTMS said:

I do not understand your point. Members of the ST, FAN, admins/mods (they do tend to be informed) of websites and a club sponsor have thought Bristol City adopting blue as its away colours is a possibility for months. Bristol Sport could have quashed the rumours with a the away kit isn't blue.

 

 

The point is that, much like a politician, you avoid answering a question when it doesn't suit you. Often skating around it, but in this case you flatly said you wouldn't answer the question and gave a reason. I then drew a parallel between the subject of the question you wish to skate around and the one you live to moan about.

[Meh]

48 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Good Points/Post and deserves a considered response.

To me, there is a bit of a two way split here - I completely agree that we should all pull together under the BS "brand" and, like you, I welcome the transformation of AG - friends who have not seen it for years are significantly impressed.

I also agree it needs to feel like home for the Rugby, and the small corner they have at the Dolman entrance seems more of a sop than anything else.

However, unlike the away kit (which changes with the seasons), the stadium seating is part of the clubs long term identity. Even teams like Man U who were noted as playing in blue away previously have an all red stadium. The rugby clubs who share with football teams (while noting that they aren't entirely the BS model) also haven't changed seats at the football stadiums. You're really talking an unprecedented move which cuts to what people see as the heart of bcfc's identity - ie we are red. It's veering into Cardiff territory in that respect, although I get the sentiment.

For me, I would make the new West concourses predominantly rugby themed to square the issue of making Briz feel at home. However, I can't see a seating change being accepted - and on a related point, doesn't a stadium look better when the colours are uniform?

So for the reasons of:

- one colour looking better overall

- the huge resistance that would come (think away kit x10)

- The fact we can do other things without disenfranchising people

would lead me to know. Wholeheartedly agree in it together though so need to make the Rugby feel part of the wider club and make more of an effort to include them in the stadium

Fair points on the seats - had not really considered that.

Making the West Stand a predominantly rugby and the other Bristol Sport teams would be good and maybe something that stands out a bit to all in the stadium without changing the seats - maybe Bristol Rugby surround on the big screens - after all the screens are mainly to comply with TMO decisions.

[David Brent]

It's a shirt we'll wear a few times this season. If it's blue (not that blue..) then so be it.

This has nothing to do with identity. We still wear red.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Libertine1 said:

It's a shirt we'll wear a few times this season. If it's blue (not that blue..) then so be it.

This has nothing to do with identity. We still wear red.

Absolutely agree that the away kit is not an identity issue. Clubs around the world wear all sorts of different away kits in countless random colours, with very little consistency from one season to the next. If anything I'd say the away kit can be a way to identify a particular season from the past!

Identity is associated with the home kit. For that reason I'm never particularly bothered about the away kit. However for the sake of unity and to avoid unnecessary conflict with a section of the fanbase, it would certainly seem wise to stay away from blue - although personally I'd love a navy blue shirt!

[CyderInACan]

If anyone doesn't want to watch a Bristol City team that plays in Bristol Blue then good luck to them; I hope they enjoy Cribbs Causeway on a Saturday afternoon. Bristol/Navy Blue is NOT the colour the sags play in so there is no issue in my eyes.    

All the fans who go to away games bang on about how "loyal" they are blah blah blah yet they'll be the only ones who see us play in it - if any one of them gives up because of the colour of the shirt then that would be laughable along the lines of the "I would boo" fiasco of LJ's appointment. 

I've seen us have away kits that are Purple, White, Black, Green, "Champagne", Yellow, not to mention the green, black and white hooped disaster from the 90's so for anyone to suggest we have a traditional away colour is wrong. Bristol Blue wouldn't be a disaster people, it's only a ****ing away shirt! 

 

 

[CyderInACan]

4 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

although personally I'd love a navy blue shirt!

Me too. Really don't get the haters salty tears on this one. 

[Milo]

37 minutes ago, Libertine1 said:

It's a shirt we'll wear a few times this season. If it's blue (not that blue..) then so be it.

This has nothing to do with identity. We still wear red.

I'm relaxed that some people see it differently, but we can't pretend we're wearing red if we're wearing blue.

If we end up with blue in the away kit, then we do so with the decision makers knowing that blue is an anathema to many City fans. Whether that's the majority is irrelevant, it's not an in/out referendum, other colours are available. To do so there would therefore need to be a good reason to take such a step. I'd like to suggest that the reason could be because it fits with Bristol Sport branding. If it's to benefit Bristol Sport branding at the expense of the traditional colours of Bristol football, then personally I see it as City's identity eroded at the expense of boosting Bristol Sports'. And if I'm right about that, then Bristol Sport see it as an enhancement to their identity even if you and Rich don't see it as an identity issue. 

[ChippenhamRed]

11 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

If anyone doesn't want to watch a Bristol City team that plays in Bristol Blue then good luck to them; I hope they enjoy Cribbs Causeway on a Saturday afternoon. Bristol/Navy Blue is NOT the colour the sags play in so there is no issue in my eyes.    

All the fans who go to away games bang on about how "loyal" they are blah blah blah yet they'll be the only ones who see us play in it - if any one of them gives up because of the colour of the shirt then that would be laughable along the lines of the "I would boo" fiasco of LJ's appointment. 

I've seen us have away kits that are Purple, White, Black, Green, "Champagne", Yellow, not to mention the green, black and white hooped disaster from the 90's so for anyone to suggest we have a traditional away colour is wrong. Bristol Blue wouldn't be a disaster people, it's only a ****ing away shirt! 

 

 

Love how you're calling it a "Bristol Blue" shirt. If it happens do I get royalties?!

[ChippenhamRed]

5 minutes ago, Milo said:

I'm relaxed that some people see it differently, but we can't pretend we're wearing red if we're wearing blue.

If we end up with blue in the away kit, then we do so with the decision makers knowing that blue is an anathema to many City fans. Whether that's the majority is irrelevant, it's not an in/out referendum, other colours are available. To do so there would therefore need to be a good reason to take such a step. I'd like to suggest that the reason could be because it fits with Bristol Sport branding. If it's to benefit Bristol Sport branding at the expense of the traditional colours of Bristol football, then personally I see it as City's identity eroded at the expense of boosting Bristol Sports'. And if I'm right about that, then Bristol Sport see it as an enhancement to their identity even if you and Rich don't see it as an identity issue. 

I do actually agree that's it's probably best avoided as its not worth the controversy, though I personally wouldn't have a problem with navy.

[CyderInACan]

5 minutes ago, Milo said:

I see it as City's identity eroded at the expense of boosting Bristol Sports'.

With respect, that's bollocks. We do not have an identity when it comes to away colours. The badge is our identity. Home will always be red. Away kits are entirely changeable. Bristol Blue would be as different to sag blue as it would be if it were pink, lemon, or orange. 

[CyderInACan]

8 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Love how you're calling it a "Bristol Blue" shirt. If it happens do I get royalties?!

Yes. On behalf of Bristol Sport I guarantee you'll have this season's Food Vouchers hand delivered by your personal account manager as a thank you as well as 10% commission on away shirt sales! *

 

*in no way binding, legally, morally or immorally 

[JamesBCFC]

36 minutes ago, Milo said:

I'm relaxed that some people see it differently, but we can't pretend we're wearing red if we're wearing blue.

If we end up with blue in the away kit, then we do so with the decision makers knowing that blue is an anathema to many City fans. Whether that's the majority is irrelevant, it's not an in/out referendum, other colours are available. To do so there would therefore need to be a good reason to take such a step. I'd like to suggest that the reason could be because it fits with Bristol Sport branding. If it's to benefit Bristol Sport branding at the expense of the traditional colours of Bristol football, then personally I see it as City's identity eroded at the expense of boosting Bristol Sports'. And if I'm right about that, then Bristol Sport see it as an enhancement to their identity even if you and Rich don't see it as an identity issue. 

We can't pretend we are wearing red if we're in purple and lime either, or black or white which is what it seems you are suggesting. We won't be wearing blue at the expense of wearing red.

If anything a reboot of the 1909 kit would be reinforcing our identity wouldn't it? If not it is absolutely no different to giving the purple and lime a second run. The purple and lime one that was only particularly well thought of because of our cup exploits in it the first time for many people, the only reason the same thought isn't given to the 1909 kit is because none of us were around to witness it or remember it, the shade is nothing like what Rovers have ever worn, unless you think their pink kit from a few years ago was them throwing away their identity, or the red lines that have appeared on the rovers kit from time to time

[Milo]

4 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

With respect, that's bollocks. We do not have an identity when it comes to away colours. The badge is our identity. Home will always be red. Away kits are entirely changeable. Bristol Blue would be as different to sag blue as it would be if it were pink, lemon, or orange. 

I know that the home shirt is more connected with our identity than the away shirt and I can see that quite a few posters here are not at all bothered at the prospect of a blue away kit. I have to admit though that I'm surprised that some of you are so vehement that it has no impact on our identity at all. Does purple and lime not instantly link you to Bristol City? If Joe Bryan scores the winner at Old Trafford in the fifth round of the FA Cup (I know, just go with me for a moment) would his celebratory fist pump in a blue shirt not become as iconic as Paul Cheesley's header in a white shirt against Arsenal or David Noble's injury time screamer at Palace in black? If we win the Play Off final at Wembley in a blue shirt won't every Premier League supporter identify us as having a blue away kit? And if Bristol Sport see it as a boost to their identity and it becomes perennial, won't it be more entrenched with each year? Maybe I just see the world differently.

[redfred]

Playing in blue is a smack in the face for the majority of supporters who will never accept it for the simple fact that our most hated rivals play in blue.

It's just a joke that it is even an option, let alone looking like it will be blue. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

How many times would we actually wear a blue away kit though? I think we`d probably wear red a lot more than usual due to clashes which we never had with purple and lime or yellow.