Lanterne Rouge Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said: Fair enough, I agree with that, but I don't think Andre Gray in particular offers anything especially different. Andy Carroll would have done, and finished the season in form. Kane and Vardy were also in form all season so their selection was the right one. But they all fell apart when it mattered, and that's the biggest problem Allardyce has to resolve - finding a formation that works to get the best out of the best players, and getting the best out of them when it matters. Gray was just an example TBH - I couldn`t think of anyone else off the top of my head. I agree Vardy, Sturridge & Kane should have gone but we didn`t have anything else to change it - your example of Carroll is a good one. If you look at Rashford and how he caused Iceland more problems in five minutes than the rest did all night makes both our points I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 The brave decision would of been Howe or a foreign manager instead the easy choice has been made with "Big Sam" average English managers like Hodgson, McClaren, Pearce, Keegan, Taylor have been an absolute disaster, it won't change with Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 He gets the best out of average players so it should work out fine! In all seriousness, I couldn't give a toss who it is. I'm not interested in international football and England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, alexukhc said: Just like our crap players coming through means crap managers, a manager who has had a 22% win rate in the Premiership and never won a major trophy. What a poo footballing nation we truly have become, what the **** happened? where did it all go wrong? I blame Sky myself and Premiership above all else, with a direct connection to the players obscene wages, pampered lifestyles and foreign imports. Our players might have been taught great technical skills ( which they're also pretty crap at compared to other big nations) but, seemingly, nothing about the 'will to win', leadership, intellectual ability to problem-solve and playing for the betterment of the team rather than yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One BCFC Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I dont care what the haters say, I never thought I would be delighted Big Sam is our Manager, this is what England have come to but he gets the best out of average players which we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 hours ago, RedM said: I expect I'm alone, but anyway...it's a sad state for English football when the answer is Sam Allerdyce. Be brave enough and blame the prem set up and its con of all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaller than a flea Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 52 minutes ago, cynic said: He's had virtually no meaningful success. Which makes him perfect for the job - expect nothing and you are never disappointed. I know what you mean, but I expected nothing from Hodgson and was still disappointed by the appalling displays in 2014 and 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Typical city fans all doom and gloom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I would've looked at Klinsmann as well. If the only choice was Bruce & fat Sam says it all really. The FA know. . sweet FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigratedRobin Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sam Allardyce, Bolton manager circa 2002 would have been great, but I'm not sure about the current incarnation?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COACH2 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Sam has a record of getting the best out of the players he has at his disposal, if he repeats this with England, we will not be going home after the first knock out game, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I reserve judgement, but at the same time am far from inspired. Personally surprised it's happened so quickly, but if it were a choice between him and Bruce, Sam gets it everything for me. If, and it's a big if, Klinsmann was interested in the job, then the FA have missed a trick. Did well with the USA, and couldn't give a crap if he's German or not. At the end of the day, whoever is the England manager has a hell of a job on their hands anyway, because as a team we're not good enough, and I still think that it's partly down to the number of foreigners in the game at the top level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiceRed Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Before I (sort of) lay into Fat Sam, I do think he's probably the best man for the job, from the rather limited pool on offer. I just don't really like him much. This may be my perception, but he seems the sort of guy that claims all the credit when he wins, yet absolves himself of blame whenever he loses. Regarding some of the comments above about him not being afraid to drop favoured players and chose those on form, isn't this a guy who stuck with Kevin Nolan at WH when he was past it, because of previous loyalties? Just the one example I know... On the plus side, despite the absolute shambles of the Iceland game, if Sam can get us to defend a bit better from crosses, which i think he can do, we should be a QF/SF team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Lack of quality English candidates so Big Sam is the best of poor list. I like Eddy Howe but think it's too early for him and would possibly mess up a promising career. If England were to go with one of those damn foreign managers Klinsmen would be a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Lumped a few quid on him at 12/1 a few weeks back. Loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, NiceRed said: Before I (sort of) lay into Fat Sam..... ....so after the non-hilarious ridiculing of ex-City manager Roy Hodgson by loads calling him 'Woy' we're now gonna call Sam Allardyce 'Fat Sam' - any danger of ever giving the England manager a bit of respect?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, shelts said: Lack of quality English candidates so Big Sam is the best of poor list. I like Eddy Howe but think it's too early for him and would possibly mess up a promising career. If England were to go with one of those damn foreign managers Klinsmen would be a good fit. Methinks would be good if Eddie Howe had some form of role in the new set up, with a view to him becoming manager in the medium term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodburyred Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Finally a manager who won't try and make us play like Spain. We are English and should be playing like it fast paced attacking football. Yes it may be direct sometimes but so what. We have what 10 England games a year and they are always so boring and repatative. Wouldn't it be nice to see some goals and attacking play in the international break. He gets the players at his disposal to play to the best of their abilities. Reminds me of a certain hoof ball merchant we had a few seasons ago, cotterball was what we were warned off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 19 minutes ago, Taz said: I reserve judgement, but at the same time am far from inspired. Personally surprised it's happened so quickly, but if it were a choice between him and Bruce, Sam gets it everything for me. If, and it's a big if, Klinsmann was interested in the job, then the FA have missed a trick. Did well with the USA, and couldn't give a crap if he's German or not. At the end of the day, whoever is the England manager has a hell of a job on their hands anyway, because as a team we're not good enough, and I still think that it's partly down to the number of foreigners in the game at the top level. So you bemoan the number of foreign players in our game and say that we aren't good enough at international level because there are so many of them playing in our Premier League and then you advocate us having a foreign manager?! So doesn't it work both ways?! The reason there aren't obvious English candidates for the post of England manager is because there are too many foreign managers at the top level of our game?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiceRed Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: ....so after the non-hilarious ridiculing of ex-City manager Roy Hodgson by loads calling him 'Woy' we're now gonna call Sam Allardyce 'Fat Sam' - any danger of ever giving the England manager a bit of respect?! Big Sam then...I think he refers to himself as that. I can't imagine he cares much about being called Fat Sam. Least of all by the likes of me. I quite liked Roy/Woy. I think that nickname was more affectionate than disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 11 minutes ago, sodburyred said: Mike Bassett would do a job!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxidog Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I went to every one of the Euro qualifiers, home and away, the 3 pre Euro friendlies, and to all the games in France, ending with the shambles against Iceland in Nice. We were never that great in the qualifiers, but got through against inferior/poor opposition with an average team showing occasional flashes of brilliance. As usual, that mistakenly inflated everyones hopes and expectations. Hodgson made a huge balls up in showing loyalty to players who had done quite well in the qualifiers, like Wilshire, Sterling and Henderson and taking them to France despite having been injured for the weeks (and months in Wilshire's case) prior to the Euros. He ignored players in form, like Noble, Defoe, Carroll, Drinkwater and Townsend (who did more in the last 10 mins in the friendly at Sunderland than Sterling did in the entire time in France).He then played confusing formations, could'nt even organise a proper defence, and kept picking players like Kane, and especially Sterling, who were playing abysmally. A bunch of overpaid prima donnas, and no team spirit/will to win (unlike Wales, though I hate to say it). Seeing Rooney lounging on a luxury yacht and Sterling showing off pics of his new mansion a couple of days after the Iceland game, showed typical insensitivity to fans like us who were still hurting really badly after the result and making our way slowly and dejectedly home. The paragraph above illustrates why I therefore welcome Sam - the best available from admittedly a very small list of Englishmen, but who will have massive passion for the job, the most since Venables. We all know he will have to pick from an ever diminishing pool of English talent due to the unbelievable level (far too high) of foreign players in the Premier League, but at least he will organise the defence properly, pick in form players, bond the team, and most importantly let the players know in no uncertain terms that they had better show unstinting passion in representing England or **** off, you're not wanted. No-one will be safe from Sam's axe if they dont perform, which will be very refreshing - so Hart, Kane, Sterling, Cahill, Wilshire,...- it's a long list, watch out !! Ive just heard today Ive got my ticket for the first World Cup qualifier away to Slovakia in Sept - cant wait !! Not so sure about going to Russia in 2018 though !! PS for those who want a foreign manager - apparently none on the interested list was prepared to accept 'less than £5M a year' - considering they're all multi millionaires, the greed element which is ruining our game, is sickening - so for once the FA has done the right thing to tell them to get lost. We've been down the Erikson/Capello route and been fleeced already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 35 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: So you bemoan the number of foreign players in our game and say that we aren't good enough at international level because there are so many of them playing in our Premier League and then you advocate us having a foreign manager?! So doesn't it work both ways?! The reason there aren't obvious English candidates for the post of England manager is because there are too many foreign managers at the top level of our game?! Two completely different scenarios. The number of foreign players in the game, has, and will continue to affect the number of English players playing at the top level. The likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and more recently both Manchester clubs, buy these talented youngsters early, stockpile them, and then buy even more talent from abroad. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as it will help the development of the young English players, but there needs to be a limit. More and more the English players are having to drop out of the top league to get game time, either that or stick it out in the u21s. English players by and large play in England. The talented French,German, Spanish, and so on, play all over the world. Why do they not buy English? As for the foreign manager/coach - why not? Perhaps it's a different type of coaching elsewhere around the world, perhaps we've not caught up with it yet? Let's be fair, there is no English manager that stands out, other than maybe Howe? At this stage in his career, maybe it's too early, but personally, I would have liked him. Don't get me wrong, I'm not for or against foreign or English when it comes to the managers job. It should go to the best person available. Perhaps that is Sam, I don't know. Let's be honest though, there is something wrong with the setup here, and it's been wrong for so long, I don't think anyone really knows what it is. I think it needs a fresh perspective, from outside. England never seem to get it right. We have supposedly, some of the best crop of English players for many years, yet they still look so far off of an average side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 There was a time when i would have been downcast about this. But now, less so. Given the performances of Wales and Iceland in the Euros, it goes to show what being a 'team' can do, even with mainly average / poor / ive never even heard of him players. Lets face it Coleman isn't exactly a stellar manager, most of them wanted him out as soon as he got the job! But he has managed to take the Welsh far beyond what anyone expected. And wasnt icelands manager a part time dentist? Just goes to show, if they fit then they fit. Maybe Big Sam will do that for England. God knows the last time i saw them play with team spirit was probably Euro 96. Twenty bloody years ago! Good luck to him, hopefully we're not all here in 2 years time saying 'for crying out loud - not again...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 I've never been a fan of Allardyce and I reckon he lacks the experience ,finesse or the insight you need to be an international manager. I can't wait for England's next match to see Allardyce chewing his gum........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 hours ago, alexukhc said: Just like our crap players coming through means crap managers, a manager who has had a 22% win rate in the Premiership and never won a major trophy. What a poo footballing nation we truly have become, what the **** happened? where did it all go wrong? How far do you want to go back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 hours ago, redfred said: Absolutely right - anybody conforming to the idea that Allardyce is a footballing dinosaur should read a bit more about his time at Bolton, and his other clubs, as in fact he was ahead of his time. I'm pleased about this appointment and I think the players will respond to him as well as any other appointment. They will believe in him and his methods and Allardyce knows how to play good football, so nothing to fear. Good luck to him. I used to have the mistaken belief that he was a dinosaur but I was wrong. I think he will do well for England.. Every team that has got rid of him have done worse subsequently. He used to think he was too direct but he has tended to work with what he has got. When he has had the opportunity to bring in flair he will E.g. djorkaeff. He is the right age and has the character to stand up to criticism from the press and everyone else. Does not give a **** which is the attitude needed for England manager. I think he knows what he wants and will pick players to suit how he wants to play rather than just picking the best players and muddling along. He is progressive. He will have the best technology and data to aid him and he will do his homework on the opposition. All of his teams have had some steel and determination. He gets results quickly. His work with Sunderland was nothing short of a miracle. Ireland supporter myself, but good luck to Big Sam and England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said: It wasn't a factual argument. No facts were stated. It was a subjective opinion and hers is just as valid as yours. Just as mine is every bit as valid as yours. I've just read the post again and still feel that it suggests they know very little about Big Sam and their comments were wrong in relation to his credentials. Sorry if that upsets you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 For me, its the FA that needs to resign. To appoint Allardyce is a shocking copout. This man was being investigated by the FA 10 years ago for accepting bungs - now he's England Manager? You couldn't make it up! Terribly disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Reminds me of a sort of Joachim Low type of appointment. Most Germans were rather underwhelmed when he got the job but he has not turned out too badly. Maybe finally the FA have woken up to the fact that foreign and high profile and exciting are not what an England team requires, pandering to a bunch of headphone zombies requires a kick up the back side and they've tried it once in soft yet hard Roy and now they need to go one step further and have a hard and more excrutiatingly hard approach in Big Sam. And for the fella that mentioned his touchline gum chewing exploits I can only say that I would much rather that than a nose picker like Low. All of that said I would have preferred Glen Hoddle with Eddie Howe but, assuming they were first choice and unavailable, Sam might just work.. I wish him well. It is clearly the challenge of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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