PFree Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I'm not sure if I alone here but with the ever rising costs of transfers and wages, we are in real danger of spoiling our great game? When you see transfer fees like our young Kodjia going for £11M plus add-on's, it makes you realise that in time more and more teams will try and chase the dream and end up broke? How on earth can clubs pay this sort of fee and ever end up making any form of profit, after all, football clubs aren't charities? What concerns me is that normal fans are being priced out of the game, and sadly, unless you have pay TV, they aren't able to watch live football at all, it's a sad state of affairs and I fear for the supporters of tomorrow, my children included, as after all, the money has to come from somewhere to support ever rising wage bills and costs? I fear that in due course with fans perhaps not mattering as much as they use to that we'll see more and more empty seats as the price of a ticket gets beyond people, just watch Match of the Day to see how empty stadiums already are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, PFree said: I'm not sure if I alone here but with the ever rising costs of transfers and wages, we are in real danger of spoiling our great game? When you see transfer fees like our young Kodjia going for £11M plus add-on's.... He ain't 'young' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 It's a problem that has one and only one solution: fans stop putting money into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: He ain't 'young' When you are my age he is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 13 minutes ago, PFree said: I'm not sure if I alone here but with the ever rising costs of transfers and wages, we are in real danger of spoiling our great game? When you see transfer fees like our young Kodjia going for £11M plus add-on's, it makes you realise that in time more and more teams will try and chase the dream and end up broke? How on earth can clubs pay this sort of fee and ever end up making any form of profit, after all, football clubs aren't charities? What concerns me is that normal fans are being priced out of the game, and sadly, unless you have pay TV, they aren't able to watch live football at all, it's a sad state of affairs and I fear for the supporters of tomorrow, my children included, as after all, the money has to come from somewhere to support ever rising wage bills and costs? I fear that in due course with fans perhaps not mattering as much as they use to that we'll see more and more empty seats as the price of a ticket gets beyond people, just watch Match of the Day to see how empty stadiums already are... Wow what a fantastic post and cannot agree more, the fact premier league clubs alone will have spent lore than 1bn since end of the seaso is mind blowing. i am with you 100% I have seen some pretty derogatory Hingis said about Kodjia and his transfer, fans saying we have ripped off villa and he isn't worth it. What i can say is that Kodjia is a very very good striker whether people think he is worth 15m or not that is not his fault. He has not strung us along and it has all been done clinically and without any drama. We will be poorer without him. i think it is Arsene wenger who has said that he believes in time this will come to an end and with it many clubs in England will also go down the pan, say what you like about him what he has been is very astute and correct in his thoughts over time. For the first time ever this summer I am starting to get dissalusioned with the game...I mean 89m for pogba someone who didn't stand out at all in the euros. The only players in the world that should cost that money are the ones that guarantee 40 goals at the highest level, messi, Ronaldo and bale. sad state in my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I actually feel it is fan pressure and expectation that also fuels the figures bandied about. You will see various posts on here being disappointed we 'only' spend £2m on Jimmy's replacement, yet in other posts complain that they paid £4 for a pasty or £30 for a ticket. People expect progress and sometime unrealistic targets, but don't want to pay for it. One thing I always wonder is if SL (take away his billionaire status and we were a club that struggled for money) said "if we charge fans £70 a ticket per game, but we will put 75% of this into new signings" would people pay it? No. would they still expect to see transfers in? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Peacock Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 22 minutes ago, PFree said: I'm not sure if I alone here but with the ever rising costs of transfers and wages, we are in real danger of spoiling our great game? When you see transfer fees like our young Kodjia going for £11M plus add-on's, it makes you realise that in time more and more teams will try and chase the dream and end up broke? How on earth can clubs pay this sort of fee and ever end up making any form of profit, after all, football clubs aren't charities? What concerns me is that normal fans are being priced out of the game, and sadly, unless you have pay TV, they aren't able to watch live football at all, it's a sad state of affairs and I fear for the supporters of tomorrow, my children included, as after all, the money has to come from somewhere to support ever rising wage bills and costs? I fear that in due course with fans perhaps not mattering as much as they use to that we'll see more and more empty seats as the price of a ticket gets beyond people, just watch Match of the Day to see how empty stadiums already are... What is a normal fan? Plenty of normal blokes where I sit in the Williams/Lansdown/West. TV money is how they afford it and parachute payments for the likes of Villa (+ a nut job Chinaman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 On the Villa forum a few mentioned he's worth it even if he's only used for one season providing the team get promoted... then presumably sell him... so yeah, silly money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 The money comes from football fans paying for sky sports subscriptions, until people stop paying, the money will keep rolling in. And with foreign TV rights as well, the bubble doesn't look like bursting anytime soon, but it will one day, and that's when European Super Leagues with a smaller number of teams will really take hold and football will be like the NFL, and clubs like us and many others will be cast aside whilst the world wide brands take it all! But that's when we get football back, as the teams left will reform the league, change the financial rules and take football back to its roots. I'd rather watch a team of 11 Bristolians giving everything than 11 JKs costing £15mil a pop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RightUpInCider Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 I am not sure this is anything to do with ticket prices and normal fans being priced out of the game. The cash in this industry is not from "bottom up" ticket sales. Even if City sold every seat at Ashton Gate for a £1,000 season ticket it would not cover the cost that Aston Villa have just committed on Kodjia. The cash is top down from the TV money and that money will filter down into the lower leagues from players transferring up the pyramid. In time the whole market adjusts. But yes agree there is a risk of more clubs getting in trouble trying to reach the Premiership and the stunning amount of money on offer there. But does the Financial Fair Play not provide some protection. The risk is if/when the TV demand slows and/or the growing rank of foreign chairmen get bored of spending their money on their clubs. I think we are in a fantastic position with Steve Lansdown at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Blame those who have created and continue to support television subscription services. Without those millions giving Sky billions the bubble would burst. Sadly it isn't UK supporters in the main, it's the global market where without Sky you'd get nothing. No obvious solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 29 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said: Wow what a fantastic post and cannot agree more, the fact premier league clubs alone will have spent lore than 1bn since end of the seaso is mind blowing. i am with you 100% I have seen some pretty derogatory Hingis said about Kodjia and his transfer, fans saying we have ripped off villa and he isn't worth it. What i can say is that Kodjia is a very very good striker whether people think he is worth 15m or not that is not his fault. He has not strung us along and it has all been done clinically and without any drama. We will be poorer without him. i think it is Arsene wenger who has said that he believes in time this will come to an end and with it many clubs in England will also go down the pan, say what you like about him what he has been is very astute and correct in his thoughts over time. For the first time ever this summer I am starting to get dissalusioned with the game...I mean 89m for pogba someone who didn't stand out at all in the euros. The only players in the world that should cost that money are the ones that guarantee 40 goals at the highest level, messi, Ronaldo and bale. sad state in my mind This - Wegner's views above - has been said about football in this country since the slump in the early 80s but only a couple of very small clubs in small towns with sub 5k crowds have gone to the wall. And Accrington are back in the league now, too. We've had 92 full time clubs for a long time now. Wegner has his reasons for criticising or disapproving of the money being chucked about (by his rivals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Rojo Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 As long as we're not the ones paying £15m for a player in the Championship I don't care - especially if it puts the likes of Villa out of business. seriously though I understand what you're saying but unfortunately this is the way football is heading very quickly. I think the changes to the transfer system this year don't help either. What worries me is that as clubs know how much we've made from this transfer they will look to rinse us for as much as possible for the next player we buy who's value will suddenly double! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wardy Returns Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 59 minutes ago, PFree said: I'm not sure if I alone here but with the ever rising costs of transfers and wages, we are in real danger of spoiling our great game? When you see transfer fees like our young Kodjia going for £11M plus add-on's, it makes you realise that in time more and more teams will try and chase the dream and end up broke? How on earth can clubs pay this sort of fee and ever end up making any form of profit, after all, football clubs aren't charities? What concerns me is that normal fans are being priced out of the game, and sadly, unless you have pay TV, they aren't able to watch live football at all, it's a sad state of affairs and I fear for the supporters of tomorrow, my children included, as after all, the money has to come from somewhere to support ever rising wage bills and costs? I fear that in due course with fans perhaps not mattering as much as they use to that we'll see more and more empty seats as the price of a ticket gets beyond people, just watch Match of the Day to see how empty stadiums already are... I am far more concerned about the ever rising costs of housing, whilst wages remain static. To be honest. In this housing bubble, your average terraced house in Bedminster will be £11m in twenty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 It's not just football, but nearly every sport in the world. People just aren't going as much as they used to. Look at this List of attendance for figures at domestic professional sports leagues around the world. Numbers are surprisingly low. Who'd have thought Canada has a higher average attendance at football over Italy's Serie A. People watch sport on TV...or do other things these days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reformed_red Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 It's not the money that bothers me. Money is relative, and to be honest, a club like Villa can afford to spend £15million due to the TV money (as others have said). What bothers me is that for young fans, football is just one big money pit. Its all about who has the best players, the best team. It's become so Americanised, and we have hardly even noticed. In the hum-drum of big foreign investors, the soul has been ripped from the game. I recently had a meeting with a guy, who says his team are Real Madrid. He's been to Spain twice. (Admittedly he is a bell cheese but that's another story). My kids go to school with kids who support one team one week, and another the next. The glory supporting in this country is unreal. And the identity is ripped from each club the more the merry-go-round circus continues. Every club wants to / tries to compete to get to the top, to be the best. But they can't be. That's when the bubble will burst. When fans completely disengage. Forget player loyalty, that doesn't really exist. It's not now that worries me. For now, the TV money will be there, because the advertising money is there. The audience won't disappear. But in 1 or 2 generations' time, the fans will disappear, and that's when the real problems will arise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 hour ago, MC RISK77 said: Wow what a fantastic post and cannot agree more, the fact premier league clubs alone will have spent lore than 1bn since end of the seaso is mind blowing. i am with you 100% I have seen some pretty derogatory Hingis said about Kodjia and his transfer, fans saying we have ripped off villa and he isn't worth it. What i can say is that Kodjia is a very very good striker whether people think he is worth 15m or not that is not his fault. He has not strung us along and it has all been done clinically and without any drama. We will be poorer without him. i think it is Arsene wenger who has said that he believes in time this will come to an end and with it many clubs in England will also go down the pan, say what you like about him what he has been is very astute and correct in his thoughts over time. For the first time ever this summer I am starting to get dissalusioned with the game...I mean 89m for pogba someone who didn't stand out at all in the euros. The only players in the world that should cost that money are the ones that guarantee 40 goals at the highest level, messi, Ronaldo and bale. sad state in my mind Worse than 89 million euros for Pogba was the 25 million his agent "earned" from the deal. None of us would begrudge good players earning good money, but we went past that a long time ago as we are now in the era of obscene salaries. The money in the game is a viscous circle. Sky pay a huge increase on their next tv deal, the agents are immediately meeting with chairmen/chief execs to secure an equally huge increase in their players contracts ( with a correspondingly huge cut going into the agents bank account). It doesn't mean the player is that much better than he was previously , it's just that the agent will justify the increase because the players are the ones the fans want to watch and therefore bring in the money. When the reward for the club finishing bottom of the premier league and relegated is to be paid £90m, then it really is madness. We are seeing the results of that madness as clubs like Villa can spend ridiculous amounts on a player like Kodjia , with salaries to match, so that a £10m fee is now being paid for good championship players, when only a few short years ago it was the benchmark for top bracket internationals. I think and hope that we are getting it right and not think we will ever go mad financially chasing promotion - Sl is working for the club being self sufficient financially and the club's strategy with player acquisition is sensibly based. Not every club is so fortunate to have such a wealthy and committed owner as us, and like you I fear for some clubs' futures if promotion is not achieved before the money runs out This country is awash with foreign players, at the expense of homegrown youngsters. It is OK having academies with the sort of investment many clubs are now making, but the problem seems to me that the raw material is not good enough, and certainly not to the same standard as other countries are producing at the same ages. How much of the vast amounts going into the premier league are going into grass roots development , not at the clubs, but in the local communities, to train up more coaches so youngsters are getting proper coaching so that when they get to academies they have the skills and abilities to properly compete with foreign youngsters of similar ages? I was around to see the promotion winning team of the 70s when the bulk gf the team was local boys made good and players who had grown through the club's youth system and were with the club for a good number of years. Football evolves and changes, so I think we all realise we will never see that again. My worry is the pace of change financially in the last 2/3 years seems out of all proportion with the previous 20 years and you have to winder, and worry, where it will all end. The other worry is not just player loyalty but that of fans . In my younger days going to see City was a cheap thing to do and it is little surprise that many of the old stagers on here were stood in the East End back in the 60s and 70s ( or in Aizoons case when we got to the cup final!) and are still as loyal to the club as they were then. I can see a real danger that youngsters growing up watching City for the last 10 years might well find themselves and their sons priced out of the game because costs will increase as transfer fees and wages increase still further to the point that for ordinary people it is unaffordable. If we get to the premier league it will be even worse, and the traditional fan will be replaced by the "plastic" variety, lured by the high profile cache of top flight football and they are likely to be the ones with no problems affording the ticket prices. Unfortunately their "support" will only last as long as the club maintains it's appeal, by which time the more traditional fans will be a long time lost to the game and it will be much more difficult to attract them back in the future than it has been in the past. The game is now more cynical, as the local businessman made good, who used to bankroll many clubs with little thought of seeing his money back, let alone a return, has been replaced by the wealthy foreign investor looking for the club that offers him a good return on his investment, reflected glory of being involved with a high profile club in the "best league in the world" and raising his and this business profile back home n the far east or wherever. The new style owners are hard nosed, don't have any thoughts for supporting home grown players, or managers, and heaven help a club where a foreign owners pulls the plug and wants his money back. In a way it seems strange to say that while so much in the game is of concern going forward, for the first time for probably a decade we seem to have got our act together , with people with the right experience in the right jobs on the football side, and a clear plan and strategy regarding financial controls, transfer/player strategy, so I actually feel more confident and optimistic about our fortunes for the next few years than I would have only 3 years ago. For all my scepticism, my main hope is that when youngsters come into Ashton Gate for the first time that they still get the same buzz and rush that I did 50 years ago, and that it makes them want to come back time and again even when the club continually flatters to deceive, disappoints on a regular basis and that the successes are outnumbered by the failures. If so then Bristol City will always be their club, through good times and bad. Sorry for a rambling post but the issues raised in other great posts on this thread do get me so annoyed and frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malago Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Cost of boy's entrance for the open end in 1971, when decimalisation came in, 10 pence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Malago said: Cost of boy's entrance for the open end in 1971, when decimalisation came in, 10 pence. Oooh, matron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 15 minutes ago, reformed_red said: What bothers me is that for young fans, football is just one big money pit. Its all about who has the best players, the best team. It's become so Americanised, and we have hardly even noticed. Not really sure what you mean by that? American sports have a much more level playing field, what with the salary caps and draft systems. Well, apart from baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 8 minutes ago, Malago said: Cost of boy's entrance for the open end in 1971, when decimalisation came in, 10 pence. Well, it was 40p to get in the schoolboys enclosure by the 77/78 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall King Blox Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 20 minutes ago, El Hombrecito said: Not really sure what you mean by that? American sports have a much more level playing field, what with the salary caps and draft systems. Well, apart from baseball. What have the Romans ever done for us eh!..........ah . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Nibor said: It's a problem that has one and only one solution: fans stop putting money into the game. Absolute nonsense! People stopping subscribing to Sky sports would have a FAR bigger impact on the ludicrous money that's in the game nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Just now, Bar BS3 said: Absolute nonsense! People stopping subscribing to Sky sports would have a FAR bigger impact on the ludicrous money that's in the game nowadays. What exactly do you think I meant by "stop putting money into the game"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 Just now, Nibor said: What exactly do you think I meant by "stop putting money into the game"? I took that to mean that fans stop going to games. Apologies if wrong. I wouldn't call Sky Sports subscribers as fans or putting money into the game. Not directly. They are followers, rather than fans and they give their money to Murdoch, not invest into the game. Imho, anybody who subscribes to sky sports and complains about the money in the game is a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 The only figure that is really bad news for me is the cost of a ticket. Simple reality is, paying the mortage, h/hold bills, expenses for the family, means that I can't afford to go to City games full stop. Newcastle is my only home game this year (unless I pick up a friend's spare season ticket for Leeds). In turn, I will not be taking my son or daughter to city games, which probably means they won't care one jot about the City as they get older..... Dread to think how much the club would milk the fans for if we ever made it to the Premiership.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, reddogkev said: The only figure that is really bad news for me is the cost of a ticket. Simple reality is, paying the mortage, h/hold bills, expenses for the family, means that I can't afford to go to City games full stop. Newcastle is my only home game this year (unless I pick up a friend's spare season ticket for Leeds). In turn, I will not be taking my son or daughter to city games, which probably means they won't care one jot about the City as they get older..... Dread to think how much the club would milk the fans for if we ever made it to the Premiership.... How old are your children? If under 12, and assuming you aren't a member, the 3 of you could attend the Derby game for £35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reformed_red Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 45 minutes ago, El Hombrecito said: Not really sure what you mean by that? American sports have a much more level playing field, what with the salary caps and draft systems. Well, apart from baseball. Firstly.....It's the whole "Moneyball" system. Huge overturn of players. Use players like pawns. Buy young, cheap and in enough volume, sell high. It creates a lack of relation between fan and player, dumbing down that deep sense of passion as you become passive about those who represent your club.....The transfer window started that process. Great for Sky Sports News, but not so great for clubs. It reduces the risk of losing players anytime, but forces clubs to often buy needlessly. Also - the "franchise" model. Linked clubs. Feeder clubs. Etc. Creates money at the top of the game, but long term it damages the identity of clubs, in turn again making fanbases more passive. So we have the squad cap, a bit like the roster system. Great...... This in turn creates and field the need for the loan system. (Which has become even weirder this season I still can't quite understand it.) I guess it's similar to the roster / draft system. (similar not the same...). Players like Hart / Wilshere / Schweinsteiger unable to get a game, whereas Kodjia is worth £15million. The numbers and facts are, as the OP suggested, crazy. In general I just see fans becoming even more passive, especially the next geberation. Awesome for the Premier League. Probably pretty good probably for part or most of the Championship. The rest....dunno. These are just my views on it though, and it's a complex topic, granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 27 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I took that to mean that fans stop going to games. Apologies if wrong. I wouldn't call Sky Sports subscribers as fans or putting money into the game. Not directly. They are followers, rather than fans and they give their money to Murdoch, not invest into the game. Imho, anybody who subscribes to sky sports and complains about the money in the game is a hypocrite. I meant putting money into the game, directly or indirectly. Everyone who whinges about the money but then buys Gillette razors or has a Sky subscription or goes to the pub to watch the game on telly is a hypocrite. It's simple economics, the money is there because people choose to pay it and although there are a small handful of very wealthy people pumping in cash in the main it comes from fans, so it's our choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogkev Posted August 30, 2016 Report Share Posted August 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: How old are your children? If under 12, and assuming you aren't a member, the 3 of you could attend the Derby game for £35. Very good point, the quid-a-kid offer is great for a one-off (or saving money for someone who does take their children down frequently), but what if my kids get the buzz and want to go regular? How long until the next similar deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.