Budding accountants - what we have spent and recovered so far...

[cityexile]

Just thought I would put this out there. Lots of health warnings as just about all fees are 'undisclosed' so these are what in the respective threads were the collective wisdom of OTIB on fees. I will let you be the judge of how much of that we actually have. Feel free to add a bit more on, take a bit more off! I might have got some laughably wrong.

In

Abraham           season loan

Brownhill         - free (may be a modest tribunal fee)

Matthews      – season loan

Magnussen    – £2.5m

Moore             - £1.5m

O Dowda        – £1.2m

O’Neil              – free

Pattison         - £500k

Tomlin           - £2m

Total                £7.7m

Left

El Abd          – free agent

Ayling           - £750k

Agard             - £1m

Williams         - £750k

Kodjia             -  £8m (£11m less fees, sell on etc)

plus  Bolaise - £5m

Total - £15.5m

Net +£7.8m

Compared to last season, it is pretty much a whole team we have signed (by tomorrow might be) - and that is excluding some interesting youth players signed.

It is interesting to me that without the drama of the big bids from last year, we have been busy going about our team building, but still spent circa £7.7m - little old us. £4m on two defenders. Can get lost in all the noise.  

Equally the profit, by the time you deal with fees, payments etc is almost certainly not as high as it shows here. Having said that, I am sure SL was happy to sanction net spending. We should also not forget wages are going to be considerably higher.

That is quite a window, and it is not shut yet. We are far from a 'big' club in this league budget wise, but difficult looking at that lot to say we are a small one either.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

I know we`ll never know for sure what we paid for LT, but when Sky put up the prem ins and outs list they always have 3mil next to him.

[cityexile]

1 minute ago, Red Right Hand said:

I know we`ll never know for sure what we paid for LT, but when Sky put up the prem ins and outs list they always have 3mil next to him.

It is a bit of a guess. Somebody else said that somebody else had said to somebody, the Tomlin fee was not a record for us, so I placed it at £2m.

It is entirely possible that the somebody who spoke to the somebody else before sharing it with somebody, had no idea!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

You shouldn't assume that a loan is fee-free.  I would expect we are paying a hefty wadge to Chelsea for Abraham's services.  Didn't someone say that Baker cost us £1m just for a single season?

[WRERE]

2 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

You shouldn't assume that a loan is fee-free.  I would expect we are paying a hefty wadge to Chelsea for Abraham's services.  Didn't someone say that Baker cost us £1m just for a single season?

IIRC MA or LJ came out and said the fee is dependent on how many games he plays. If he plays a lot then there is no fee

[nebristolred]

EDIT: Delete.

[Chairman Mao]

Could we turn a profit this year?

If Gustav comes in for £2m we have made net £5-6m from transfers, and we have the revenue from the new stadium, could be close!

[Jack Dawe]

36 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Just thought I would put this out there. Lots of health warnings as just about all fees are 'undisclosed' so these are what in the respective threads were the collective wisdom of OTIB on fees. I will let you be the judge of how much of that we actually have. Feel free to add a bit more on, take a bit more off! I might have got some laughably wrong.

In

Abraham           season loan

Brownhill         - free (may be a modest tribunal fee)

Matthews      – season loan

Magnussen    – £2.5m

Moore             - £1.5m

O Dowda        – £1.2m

O’Neil              – free

Pattison         - £500k

Tomlin           - £2m

Total                £7.7m

Left

El Abd          – free agent

Ayling           - £750k

Agard             - £1m

Williams         - £750k

Kodjia             -  £8m (£11m less fees, sell on etc)

plus  Bolaise - £5m

Total - £15.5m

Net +£7.8m

Compared to last season, it is pretty much a whole team we have signed (by tomorrow might be) - and that is excluding some interesting youth players signed.

It is interesting to me that without the drama of the big bids from last year, we have been busy going about our team building, but still spent circa £7.7m - little old us. £4m on two defenders. Can get lost in all the noise.  

Equally the profit, by the time you deal with fees, payments etc is almost certainly not as high as it shows here. Having said that, I am sure SL was happy to sanction net spending. We should also not forget wages are going to be considerably higher.

That is quite a window, and it is not shut yet. We are far from a 'big' club in this league budget wise, but difficult looking at that lot to say we are a small one either.

 

We're not a big club, and we're not a small club. We're a middling club, piggy in the middle. And there's a bunch of them in the Prem (Stoke, Watford, Palace, Swansea, Burnley, West Brom, Hull, even Leicester!) right now, there always is. Why shouldn't it be us some day? They got there by being better organised and making better decisions than us, not by being "bigger" or having greater support. 

[cityexile]

6 minutes ago, Chairman Mao said:

Could we turn a profit this year?

If Gustav comes in for £2m we have made net £5-6m from transfers, and we have the revenue from the new stadium, could be close!

Difficult to say. SL seems to under write running costs by about £10m a year. Income will be up, but so must wages a fair bit. I also suspect what looks like profit gets eaten away by 10% here, 10% there, the odd signing on fee here, so may well be less. Complete guesswork, but suspect he was willing to sanction what we paid out, irrespective of the Boliase and Kodjia 'windfalls' so god bless SL. May he live to be 105.

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 minute ago, cityexile said:

Difficult to say. SL seems to under write running costs by about £10m a year. Income will be up, but so must wages a fair bit. I also suspect what looks like profit gets eaten away by 10% here, 10% there, the odd signing on fee here, so may well be less. Complete guesswork, but suspect he was willing to sanction what we paid out, irrespective of the Boliase and Kodjia 'windfalls' so god bless SL. May he live to be 105.

And cryogenic technology is advancing at an amazing rate.

[Kid in the Riot]

By my maths the profit on Kodjia is only £6.23m

[cityexile]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

By my maths the profit on Kodjia is only £6.23m

Depends on the sell on clause. I have assumed 20%, and 10% to Kodjia. have seen as high as 40% quoted as the sell on.

[RumRed]

7 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

By my maths the profit on Kodjia is only £6.23m

Not bad for a player that kept us up and then obviously wanted to bugger off.

If all our signings make a return of that % in a year whilst having a good season and on relatively low wages I think we'd take that.

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Depends on the sell on clause. I have assumed 20%, and 10% to Kodjia. have seen as high as 40% quoted as the sell on.

30% on the profit.

[Iron Acton Red]

1 hour ago, cityexile said:

Just thought I would put this out there. Lots of health warnings as just about all fees are 'undisclosed' so these are what in the respective threads were the collective wisdom of OTIB on fees. I will let you be the judge of how much of that we actually have. Feel free to add a bit more on, take a bit more off! I might have got some laughably wrong.

In

Abraham           season loan

Brownhill         - free (may be a modest tribunal fee)

Matthews      – season loan

Magnussen    – £2.5m

Moore             - £1.5m

O Dowda        – £1.2m

O’Neil              – free

Pattison         - £500k

Tomlin           - £2m

Total                £7.7m

Left

El Abd          – free agent

Ayling           - £750k

Agard             - £1m

Williams         - £750k

Kodjia             -  £8m (£11m less fees, sell on etc)

plus  Bolaise - £5m

Total - £15.5m

Net +£7.8m

Compared to last season, it is pretty much a whole team we have signed (by tomorrow might be) - and that is excluding some interesting youth players signed.

It is interesting to me that without the drama of the big bids from last year, we have been busy going about our team building, but still spent circa £7.7m - little old us. £4m on two defenders. Can get lost in all the noise.  

Equally the profit, by the time you deal with fees, payments etc is almost certainly not as high as it shows here. Having said that, I am sure SL was happy to sanction net spending. We should also not forget wages are going to be considerably higher.

That is quite a window, and it is not shut yet. We are far from a 'big' club in this league budget wise, but difficult looking at that lot to say we are a small one either.

 

Sky sports column on premier league teams ins and outs state that Tomlin went to us for £3 million.

they're usually spot on.

[cityexile]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

30% on the profit.

Interesting, thank you.

Profit of £9m, so that knocks off £2.7m. Another £1.1 to Kodjia lets say, so £3.8 off the £11m, leaves £7.2m. Soon goes!

[cityexile]

So if Tomlin is £3m, and 30% on Kodjia, it is about £6m profit, less any new signings.

 

[JoeAman08]

18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

By my maths the profit on Kodjia is only £6.23m

So when you say only, you mean only almost twice our previous record transfer in just profit? That's nothing to scoff at mate. That's also an initial £6.23m rising to close to £8.5m possibly. Also recouped our initial fee. I've seen you say this multiple times like its a bad thing and I fail to see it that way. For the year, we are up 8.4m on Kodjia(initial fee on last years books) and 4m roughly on Bolasie. Plus the gains on Williams, Ayling and Agard. When could you ever say that about our club? When could you ever say that about the club with probably the strongest side it's seen in 40 years? 

[Donkeeebles]

27 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Interesting, thank you.

Profit of £9m, so that knocks off £2.7m. Another £1.1 to Kodjia lets say, so £3.8 off the £11m, leaves £7.2m. Soon goes!

Apologies for the ignorance but I've been reading all day that Kodjia went for £15m, you've put £11m, what am I missing? 

[GrahamC]

Alistair Durden was adamant at the time that Tomlin is not our record signing, so cost us less than Nicky Maynard, therefore not as much as £2.25m.

Magnusson was 2.5m euros (not pounds) according to Juventus, (£2.1m at the time) whereas O'Dowda was quoted as £1.6m, £900k of which was up front. 

Brownhill was widely reported to be £200k and Lucic also commanded a fee so I guess he cost something similar.

The Bolasie sell on was just over £4m.

Looking at the sales we have made (Ayling, Agard, Williams and now Kodjia) plus the Bolasie windfall it seems highly likely that unlike a net spend of between £5m and £10m that was expected, we will in all probability still be in profit by tomorrow night.

[Kid in the Riot]

23 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

So when you say only, you mean only almost twice our previous record transfer in just profit? That's nothing to scoff at mate. That's also an initial £6.23m rising to close to £8.5m possibly. Also recouped our initial fee. I've seen you say this multiple times like its a bad thing and I fail to see it that way. For the year, we are up 8.4m on Kodjia(initial fee on last years books) and 4m roughly on Bolasie. Plus the gains on Williams, Ayling and Agard. When could you ever say that about our club? When could you ever say that about the club with probably the strongest side it's seen in 40 years? 

I used the word 'only' to illustrate it was less than the £8m suggested by the OP.

I'm delighted at the way the club is (finally) being run.

Jesus.

[JoeAman08]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I used the word 'only' to illustrate it was less than the £8m suggested by the OP.

I'm delighted at the way the club is (finally) being run.

Jesus.

It still counts as 8m though when you add the 2.2m back. It's still the clubs money. You didn't argue the fees for Agard or Ayling. Surely the profit on them is different than what was posted. 

Sorry to nitpick and my main concern was that you were unhappy with the profit. Thanks for clarifying and my apologies for overreacting. 

[Davefevs]

59 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Depends on the sell on clause. I have assumed 20%, and 10% to Kodjia. have seen as high as 40% quoted as the sell on.

Excuse my ignorance, but why do we have to give Kodjia 10%.

I know that if a player doesn't hand in a transfer request the club pay his contract bonuses, but never heard of this?

[JasonM88]

29 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Alistair Durden was adamant at the time that Tomlin is not our record signing, so cost us less than Nicky Maynard, therefore not as much as £2.25m.

Magnusson was 2.5m euros (not pounds) according to Juventus, (£2.1m at the time) whereas O'Dowda was quoted as £1.6m, £900k of which was up front. 

Brownhill was widely reported to be £200k and Lucic also commanded a fee so I guess he cost something similar.

The Bolasie sell on was just over £4m.

Looking at the sales we have made (Ayling, Agard, Williams and now Kodjia) plus the Bolasie windfall it seems highly likely that unlike a net spend of between £5m and £10m that was expected, we will in all probability still be in profit by tomorrow night.

I'll believe what LJ says over Ali Durden. If he says he's a record fee, then he is. 

[Mamballs]

34 minutes ago, Donkeeebles said:

Apologies for the ignorance but I've been reading all day that Kodjia went for £15m, you've put £11m, what am I missing? 

11 million up front with 4 million in add ons.

[Davefevs]

Silly question.....but what are the 'add-ons' if they constitute the £15m being the record?  What are our chances of getting any of the £4m in add-ons.

What I mean is if that's £4m for promotion, and Villa never get it with Kodjia, doesn't that make it £11m and NOT a record?

If it's £11m up front and £4m in a year, then I accept we will get £15m

[The Gasbuster]

31 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

I'll believe what LJ says over Ali Durden. If he says he's a record fee, then he is. 

£2.98M is a figure I have seen several times regarding Tomlin; and I think it might be right.

It's as if we were determined not to hit a £3M ceiling, after what was a long drawn out transfer.

[cityexile]

41 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Silly question.....but what are the 'add-ons' if they constitute the £15m being the record?  What are our chances of getting any of the £4m in add-ons.

What I mean is if that's £4m for promotion, and Villa never get it with Kodjia, doesn't that make it £11m and NOT a record?

If it's £11m up front and £4m in a year, then I accept we will get £15m

Honestly do not know, and we might never.

Likely to be a mix of appearances, promotion, maybe goals (hate the thought of that one in a team sport...). I am seeing it as £11m with maybe some more down the road. Maybe over a number of seasons.

Re your other comment re 10% to Kodjia. Willing amateur here! Read on his thread somebody posting that if a player does not ask for a transfer they get 10%, and took it as gospel. Might be complete Swedish meatballs, but as no one challenged it kind of assumed it was a thing!

 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Honestly do not know, and we might never.

Likely to be a mix of appearances, promotion, maybe goals (hate the thought of that one in a team sport...). I am seeing it as £11m with maybe some more down the road. Maybe over a number of seasons.

Re your other comment re 10% to Kodjia. Willing amateur here! Read on his thread somebody posting that if a player does not ask for a transfer they get 10%, and took it as gospel. Might be complete Swedish meatballs, but as no one challenged it kind if assumed it was a thing!

 

Just read this:

According to the new FIFA regulations, compensation payed due to contract breach can _only_ be payed directly from one club to the other, with NO third-parties involved. This means that neither a player nor an agent can get a percentage of the transfer fee.

However, from what I've read, some players have a specific clause in their contract, saying that if the contract is breached due to a compensation (i.e. a transfer fee), the player must be paid a certain amount of money or a percentage of the compensation. (This clause is forbidden in Norway, btw). This is also known as a "sign-off-fee". So, technically a player _can_ get a percentage of the transfer-fee, but it has to be already specified in his current contract.

Then there's always the better-known sign-on-fee, which is payed directly from the player's new club to the player. If the player used an agent to negotiate the contract, the agent typically gets 5-10% of the sign-on-fee and also of the monthly wages.

[Sydneybcfc]

Question..

Seems the original thread has vanished, i'm not fussed about seeing it again but is there an official explanation of why the wages picture that someone posted has vanished?

Genuine? Removed by poster? Removed by mods? removed by mods at the request of the club?

Just curious really.