Difficult game but three points.

[Robbored]

I thought City just about deserved it against a Blackburn outfit that pretty much did what Cardiff and QPR had done - stopped o our creative midfielders playing their usual game. At one point GoN recieved the ball and within seconds he had three blokes in his face....same with Smith.

Unfortunately neither Paterson or Freeman were able to create much down the flanks so we saw my personal hate, long balls.......although today I could see why that low percentage tactic was used. 

But, yet again City win without playing well. That's gotta be a good sign.

[Guest]

I thought we got lucky to win today. As you allude to, I think our preferred game and system has been 'found out' from a defensive perspective.

We are very guilty of trying to score the perfect goal and as a result are passing far too often in the final third. If our opponents track the runner our man in possession typically gets flustered and loses to ball or tries the impossible pass,  rather than taking the initiative and driving at the defence. 

A really frustrating performance which made Blackburn look more defensively sound than they are and were. 

And who can end a match summary without the following, but typically apt, phrase - worst ref of the season by far!! 

[JoeAman08]

Yea you can tell teams respect us loads more now. Blackburn had 9 men and the keeper behind the ball anytime we had it. Basically a back 9 from 30 yards out. Extremely hard to break down. It was awful to watch but that's a product of our success. We need to figure out how to break these types of teams down though as we will see it more often. It's where Tomlin will make his mark. It's why Joe is preferred at LB. It's why Reid has become vital. We will figure it out but we are for the most part grinding out these tough ones which is a good omen for the season. 

[Red Exile]

Interesting to listen to LJ on the radio. Shrewd chap.  I think we have to appreciate how young this side is and how much they are learning as they go along. And it's a squad game, with many players still getting to know the others around them. And he rated Blackburn, considered them to be in a false position.

As it happens I think we were unlucky to leave both Cardiff and QPR with nothing.

Things are going better than many of us expected. Good times but requiring a bit of patience

[GrahamC]

I thought a draw would have been fair and if either team shaded it, they did.

Poor quality game not helped by an utterly incompetent set of match day officials.

[redapple]

Cardiff and QPR were games where a draw would have been fair results aw well , so it's evened out . 

Referee might as well have been a robot . Letter of the law all the time and no common sense . 

[BobBobSuperBob]

35 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I thought a draw would have been fair and if either team shaded it, they did.

Poor quality game not helped by an utterly incompetent set of match day officials.

Agree Graham - have tbh - thought they were the better side today (just) and thought they looked far more likely to score than we did.

Actually thought the injury to Luke did us a favour - thought he worked hard and was one of the better performers in a 'chewy'!performance , but Joes energy and willingness to run at defenders ; (together with another wily Wilbs contribution) gave us some real momentum for the last 10 minutes mins or so

[Calculus]

4 minutes ago, redapple said:

Cardiff and QPR were games where a draw would have been fair results aw well , so it's evened out . 

Referee might as well have been a robot . Letter of the law all the time and no common sense . 

Thought the ref was poor today for exactly that reason, BUT much to my amazement he didn't blow up for the foul on Tammy and played a very good advantage for Wilbs to score. Would have been very easy to stop the game there and a lot of refs would have, so one good thing in his favour at least.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

I thought a draw would have been fair and if either team shaded it, they did.

Poor quality game not helped by an utterly incompetent set of match day officials.

I would agree in essence with one caveat, we actually looked like the only team that might score.

[BobBobSuperBob]

41 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Thought the ref was poor today for exactly that reason, BUT much to my amazement he didn't blow up for the foul on Tammy and played a very good advantage for Wilbs to score. Would have been very easy to stop the game there and a lot of refs would have, so one good thing in his favour at least.

I don't think he saw it - sure he glanced once Tammy hit the floor

Have a feeling it was another thing he missed rather than any good use of advantage rule

If he had seen it , should have shown a yellow when ball went dead (i.e. When the ball hit the back of your net you time wasting Lancashire ******** !!! )

 

[CotswoldRed]

3 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I don't think he saw it - sure he glanced once Tammy hit the floor

Have a feeling it was another thing he missed rather than any good use of advantage rule

If he had seen it , should have shown a yellow when ball went dead (i.e. When the ball hit the back of your net you time wasting Lancashire ******** !!! )

 

The ref saw it. He raised both arms to indicate that we could play the advantage. 

[city1uk]

Mulgrew was booked immediately after the goal was scored so that confirms the ref did see the foul.

[spudski]

5 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yea you can tell teams respect us loads more now. Blackburn had 9 men and the keeper behind the ball anytime we had it. Basically a back 9 from 30 yards out. Extremely hard to break down. It was awful to watch but that's a product of our success. We need to figure out how to break these types of teams down though as we will see it more often. It's where Tomlin will make his mark. It's why Joe is preferred at LB. It's why Reid has become vital. We will figure it out but we are for the most part grinding out these tough ones which is a good omen for the season. 

I'll tell you where we could improve Joe...very simple...movement off the ball.

Our players get the ball, but then have very few options to pass again. Release then move...not release then stand still. Very basic errors today.

Also on occasion today...we had Tammy, Freeman and Patterson, just stood in a line, hanging off the shoulder of their opponent. No movement...just stood still. The only player coming for the ball or moving was Tomlin, and he did it in fits and starts. It's no wonder we were going sideways and backward so much.

The build up play is so slow and methodical...it allows opponents to get organised. We go backwards to try and draw them out...but then the likes of Freeman hang on to the ball for to long.

If we are going to play this way, the ball has to be played crisper and faster...one touch and move. too much fannying around.

I think LJ is alluding to play this way, but the players just aren't doing it atm.

[miketh2nd]

Today wasn't the most inspiring game to watch I think Blackburn were the better team first half and 2nd half we were the better team but not by much. We got lucky with the deflected goal but there has been other games we should of won thus season. 

I think changing the team  every game, most of time  the midfield is really hurting the attacking  side of our game .  I think this is a problem  and why We aren't creating so many chances.I noticed Tomlin and Tammy   sometimes frustrated with their team mates.  I saw both either talk to team mates or show a frustrated face when not passed to early. 

I think Tammy should work the channels a little more similar to how Kodjia used to stretch defences.  Although It seems  he  is told to  stay central because of the constant hoofs to him especially from fielding in the first half. 

I  think we also  missed Reid linking up with Tomlin today. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 hours ago, spudski said:

I'll tell you where we could improve Joe...very simple...movement off the ball.

Our players get the ball, but then have very few options to pass again. Release then move...not release then stand still. Very basic errors today.

Also on occasion today...we had Tammy, Freeman and Patterson, just stood in a line, hanging off the shoulder of their opponent. No movement...just stood still. The only player coming for the ball or moving was Tomlin, and he did it in fits and starts. It's no wonder we were going sideways and backward so much.

The build up play is so slow and methodical...it allows opponents to get organised. We go backwards to try and draw them out...but then the likes of Freeman hang on to the ball for to long.

If we are going to play this way, the ball has to be played crisper and faster...one touch and move. too much fannying around.

I think LJ is alluding to play this way, but the players just aren't doing it atm.

There were certainly two occasions at least in the second half when LF and (I think) JB had the ball wide right, cut a bit inside and were then gesturing to say `someone move for it then`.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

Spot on. I think back to last season where he had the likes of tomlin, Reid and bryan passing in triangles, one touch, sharp passing. And we managed to get to the byline so often, something we failed to do much yesterday. We have had some outstanding performances this season, no doubt about it. But like Johnson has said, teams have sussed us out. I think a problem is that we lack pace in the wide areas. Once Freeman or Paterson beat their man, they can't get away from them so have to come back inside again. Another problem is tammy doesn't play on the shoulder quite like kodjia did. Kodjia got a lot of stick for being offside a lot, but he was more often than not looking for it in behind which created more room for our midfielders. Tammy seems to prefer it played to his feet and is not so fast that teams are worried about him getting in behind. What would suit tammy is a number 10 that goes beyond him, like an alli and kane kinda thing. Of course our front 4 are very good players but they don't really compliment each others game. There was a lack of movement but I think they were trying to keep their shape and go for it more in the second half, having conceded so many first half goals recently. There were 8 one nils yesterday in the championship. And who knows, had we played more attacking, Blackburn may have scored on the break and nicked a 1 nil. Such a high quality league where tiniest mistakes get punished. I think it's only right to point out where we can improve, even with the position we are in. Its that we know we can and surely will improve is what excites me.

I agree with a lot of that...especially the team trying to keep their shape.

That's important...but we seem to be very cautious and slow in doing it. Players are reluctant to get into a forward position and risk leaving a 'hole' behind them.

On many occasions an opportunity arises when we could release players into a more advanced role...but we don't, as you can see the players consciously holding back.

Tammy has been so isolated recently.

I can see what LJ is trying to do. We are playing quite narrow and in sections, as units. Even when we spread the ball...the unit moves close together. Everything is very congested in the middle. Opponents are doubling up on our creative players and packing the midfield. We just run out of space or into a brick wall, as the opponents get so much time to organise themselves.

It's no coincidence we are scoring on the break rather than breaking sides down with movement.

[Dr Balls]

I would suggest that we are still trying to work out how to play both Tomlin & Abraham to get the best out of them. Tomlin needs the freedom to go anywhere, and Tammy is definitely not a target man for long ball hoofing. It's not his game against older and stronger CBs. He seems to play his best when Wilbraham comes on & takes the flak which frees up Tammy.

My suggestion would be to try starting a front 4 of Bryan, Tomlin, Reid & Abraham. Attacking intent and able to cross a ball plus provides support out wide for the midfield pair when we are defending. And if after 60 mins it's not working go 352 & bring on Wilbraham like we did yesterday. Fair play to LJ that that was the right shout.

[JoeAman08]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

I'll tell you where we could improve Joe...very simple...movement off the ball.

Our players get the ball, but then have very few options to pass again. Release then move...not release then stand still. Very basic errors today.

Also on occasion today...we had Tammy, Freeman and Patterson, just stood in a line, hanging off the shoulder of their opponent. No movement...just stood still. The only player coming for the ball or moving was Tomlin, and he did it in fits and starts. It's no wonder we were going sideways and backward so much.

The build up play is so slow and methodical...it allows opponents to get organised. We go backwards to try and draw them out...but then the likes of Freeman hang on to the ball for to long.

If we are going to play this way, the ball has to be played crisper and faster...one touch and move. too much fannying around.

I think LJ is alluding to play this way, but the players just aren't doing it atm.

You're not lying. It drives me mad at times. Everyone either stands still or comes for the ball. Not much pace on the wings either to get in behind. I still think the defences are respecting us more but you're right that the movement isn't good enough. I said in another thread it's hard to appreciate Tomlin in a game like yesterday when everyone else's lack of quality makes him look less stellar. He was the only one likely to make something happen yesterday but many only saw the few misplaced passes. 

 

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

You're not lying. It drives me mad at times. Everyone either stands still or comes for the ball. Not much pace on the wings either to get in behind. I still think the defences are respecting us more but you're right that the movement isn't good enough. I said in another thread it's hard to appreciate Tomlin in a game like yesterday when everyone else's lack of quality makes him look less stellar. He was the only one likely to make something happen yesterday but many only saw the few misplaced passes. 

 

Yesterday we just overplayed everything, and ran out of space and options every time. Short intricate passing isn't going to open up these defences, if it's slow or inaccurate.

Too many little 'flicks' or wrongly weighted balls yesterday. We needed to be more expansive...thought we missed Packs distribution, Bryans runs and options on the left...and Reids movement with Tomlin. Game was crying out for those three imo. When Bryan came on, his directness troubled Blackburn straightaway.

I love LJ...but I reckon he got it wrong yesterday...just my opinion. We won after all...didn't concede...just looking for perfection ;-) 

[JoeAman08]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yesterday we just overplayed everything, and ran out of space and options every time. Short intricate passing isn't going to open up these defences, if it's slow or inaccurate.

Too many little 'flicks' or wrongly weighted balls yesterday. We needed to be more expansive...thought we missed Packs distribution, Bryans runs and options on the left...and Reids movement with Tomlin. Game was crying out for those three imo. When Bryan came on, his directness troubled Blackburn straightaway.

I love LJ...but I reckon he got it wrong yesterday...just my opinion. We won after all...didn't concede...just looking for perfection ;-) 

Think we all are looking for perfection and that includes LJ. I was indifferent about the lineup yesterday. Bobby is injured but when fit he's as important as anyone in the squad for me. Freeman keeps getting starts so I'm not sure what LJ sees in him. I'd prefer O'Dowda or Joe in that spot. It's a toss up with GON and Pack for me though GON seems rated a bit higher but I'm not too convinced. Thinks it's easier to spot what GON does well but Pack isn't far off as a player. Think Pack could've helped with aerial balls to Gallagher. So maybe thinking of it now I'd have had a couple different starters as well but nothing wrong with a grinding 3 points and clean sheet. Just don't think this is a finished squad for LJ. Think we may be keeping Freeman in just to keep him in the shop window and to push COD to win that spot instead of just giving it to him. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yesterday we just overplayed everything, and ran out of space and options every time. Short intricate passing isn't going to open up these defences, if it's slow or inaccurate.

Too many little 'flicks' or wrongly weighted balls yesterday. We needed to be more expansive...thought we missed Packs distribution, Bryans runs and options on the left...and Reids movement with Tomlin. Game was crying out for those three imo. When Bryan came on, his directness troubled Blackburn straightaway.

I love LJ...but I reckon he got it wrong yesterday...just my opinion. We won after all...didn't concede...just looking for perfection ;-) 

I agree spud but he did have limitations in selection with Bobby injured and him being probably the only player who can play the role he does. To be fair as well, Joe has looked out of sorts for the last couple of games so probably didn`t deserve a start (although he looked the part when he came on). It`s the two games a week thing mainly I think, we have to rotate the squad, and what you can be happy about now is that we actually have the personnel to do that unlike last season.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yesterday we just overplayed everything, and ran out of space and options every time. Short intricate passing isn't going to open up these defences, if it's slow or inaccurate.

Too many little 'flicks' or wrongly weighted balls yesterday. We needed to be more expansive...thought we missed Packs distribution, Bryans runs and options on the left...and Reids movement with Tomlin. Game was crying out for those three imo. When Bryan came on, his directness troubled Blackburn straightaway.

I love LJ...but I reckon he got it wrong yesterday...just my opinion. We won after all...didn't concede...just looking for perfection ;-) 

The way Blackburn set up and tactics they used against us was very similar to the way Colin did at Cardiff and JImmy at QPR did so some credit has to go to the opposition for executing their strategy.

LJ acknowledged pre match that teams have found a way to play against us and that he was working on how to change things to counter the oppositions strategy.

That was probably why we saw subtle changes to the line up yesterday. 

 

[Red Exile]

At QPR O'Dowda played on the wing specifically, I'd assume, to offer pace. Which he did in the first half. What he lacked was the ability to beat his man with his final ball...QPR's defenders were every bit as "body-on-the-line" as Blackburn's appeared to be yesterday. One of Brownhill's qualities appears to be his ability to run at opponents with the ball at his feet and create openings. But again, whilst that worked in the first half at Sheff. Weds it's not worked so well since.

Like you Spud I can see what LJ is trying to do and I admire him for it. And I respect the fact that he's seeking to field a side to fit the occasion and opposition. I'd hope (and expect) that as the players get used to each other and grow in confidence the one-touch play will be come more effective. But in the next few weeks we have trips to Barnsley (on a roll), Birmingham (one of the best sides in the division) and Reading and at home to Brighton, who should have gone up last year. Anyone expecting to see us rip any of those sides apart with champagne football may be disappointed! But we can hope and I have more optimism that we can compete at this level than I've had for many years.

 

 

[1960maaan]

15 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I would agree in essence with one caveat, we actually looked like the only team that might score.

Not so sure about that , they seemed to have as many opportunities as we did, FF made the only save (I think it may have been going over) and I didn't think we tested their keeper nearly enough, 

10 hours ago, spudski said:

I'll tell you where we could improve Joe...very simple...movement off the ball.

Our players get the ball, but then have very few options to pass again. Release then move...not release then stand still. Very basic errors today.

Also on occasion today...we had Tammy, Freeman and Patterson, just stood in a line, hanging off the shoulder of their opponent. No movement...just stood still. The only player coming for the ball or moving was Tomlin, and he did it in fits and starts. It's no wonder we were going sideways and backward so much.

The build up play is so slow and methodical...it allows opponents to get organised. We go backwards to try and draw them out...but then the likes of Freeman hang on to the ball for to long.

If we are going to play this way, the ball has to be played crisper and faster...one touch and move. too much fannying around.

I think LJ is alluding to play this way, but the players just aren't doing it atm.

Simplest thing to point out hardest thing to implement  . Any player can pass a ball 10-20 yards, the game becomes easier and the team better if you have players making themselves available. Earlier in the season we did this , the last 3 games teams have made it harder showing us respect maybe but we need to get used to that now we re on more peoples radar.

4 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

There were certainly two occasions at least in the second half when LF and (I think) JB had the ball wide right, cut a bit inside and were then gesturing to say `someone move for it then`.

I'm not against playing wide men on their opposite wings so they can cut in, but they should be alternated so we can get crosses in as Tammy would thrive on that service. I know it's difficult due to our personnel being left footed but surely picking one that would be happy to overlap onto his wrong foot occasionally , Patterson or Odowda maybe as Freeman looks like he's wearing a diving boot on his right foot. I still want to see JB given a run further forward .

I hope the 3points will build confidence and start us getting back to where we were before the last break. 

 

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The way Blackburn set up and tactics they used against us was very similar to the way Colin did at Cardiff and JImmy at QPR did so some credit has to go to the opposition for executing their strategy.

LJ acknowledged pre match that teams have found a way to play against us and that he was working on how to change things to counter the oppositions strategy.

That was probably why we saw subtle changes to the line up yesterday. 

 

and you have to love LJ for that........ review ,  change, improve, progress, review , start again 

It's great he's open minded and happy to lean , not just from mistakes but from others tactics.

[Major Isewater]

I think we just need to up the tempo in the final third . The match yesterday was played at a pace more associated with the 70's ( the years not a veteran's league ).

I believe the instruction was to keep it tight in the first half , LJ fed up with conceding first and having to climb a mountain to get back in the match, so there was understanably safety first but when we needed to accelerate it was n't very cohesive.

I am ok with the possession football we are playing on the whole a bit of fine tuning and we are going places.

Full marks to our fans , by the way,  who are patient and supportive .

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

and you have to love LJ for that........ review ,  change, improve, progress, review , start again 

It's great he's open minded and happy to lean , not just from mistakes but from others tactics.

Indeed. 

Im struggling to recall any previous City manager who was so candid about what he's thinking about any particular match both pre and post match.

[Davefevs]

We've had two 0-0 half-time score lines this season, and won both 1-0 (Leeds and Rovers).  Am I right in thinking we've been 1-0 down in every other, with only Newcastle ending that way?

It was turgid stuff first half, but second half was far better if not necessarily resulting in their keeper making saves.  Their defenders put their heads on the line...blocks from goal destined shots from Paterson, Bryan and Abraham.  Teams do seem to run out of steam against us as the game becomes stretched.  We look less likely to get caught that way (unlike last season).

The important thing was to get back to winning ways.  Ashton Gate (not Bristol Sport, not Ashton Gate Stadium) is becoming a difficult place for away teams to come to.  There's now an expectancy that we can always get something at home.  In the past 0-0 or 0-1 at h/t would've been greeted by boos, now the fans have got a sense of belief.

We are moving in the right direction, but a tough set of games coming up, including Hull, which is important for increased profile of our club.

[Lanterne Rouge]

QPR away was 0-0 but it doesn`t make your point any less valid Dave. You wonder what we would actually do if we went 2 up early doors.

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

At QPR O'Dowda played on the wing specifically, I'd assume, to offer pace. Which he did in the first half. What he lacked was the ability to beat his man with his final ball...QPR's defenders were every bit as "body-on-the-line" as Blackburn's appeared to be yesterday. One of Brownhill's qualities appears to be his ability to run at opponents with the ball at his feet and create openings. But again, whilst that worked in the first half at Sheff. Weds it's not worked so well since.

Like you Spud I can see what LJ is trying to do and I admire him for it. And I respect the fact that he's seeking to field a side to fit the occasion and opposition. I'd hope (and expect) that as the players get used to each other and grow in confidence the one-touch play will be come more effective. But in the next few weeks we have trips to Barnsley (on a roll), Birmingham (one of the best sides in the division) and Reading and at home to Brighton, who should have gone up last year. Anyone expecting to see us rip any of those sides apart with champagne football may be disappointed! But we can hope and I have more optimism that we can compete at this level than I've had for many years.

 

 

This division is so competive rare are the occasions when one team ' rips up ' another. The only times when that happens are when the opposîtion is hit quickly by two quick goals ,a sending off or a contraversial moment which makes them lose it ' mentally ' .

The levels of fitness, technique, gameplanning etc are all very close it is the psychological part which makes the difference ,

Newcastle believe they will win every game because they have the best players ,the best support and the best manager . Aston Villa don't quite believe it at the moment because they have suffered a few years of failure but will undoubtedly get better as their results improve . Rotherham know that they are the whipping boys of this league and will draw when really they should win and lose when really they should draw .