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once again....that Ref!


Antman

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21 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

If advantage is played the ref isn't allowed to send the player off, either through a straight red or second yellow.

100% wrong, of course he can. For instance, if there is serious foul play by a defender but the ball runs to a striker with an open goal ( and the referee sees this and plays advantage)  and he scores, then the referee would give the goal and then send the defender off for serious foul play.

If Mulgrew (who took out Tammy in the lead up to our goal yesterday) had already been booked, then he would have been sent off, as it was he was just booked. 

What your saying is that if the referee plays advantage then it gives players carte blanche to punch players in the face and stay on the pitch!!!

 

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On 22/10/2016 at 18:20, shelts said:

He was extremely fussy . All forgiven for the advantage played for the goal. Cheers ref!

I was very surprised he played the advantage. I remember thinking at the time he's gonna call it back. I thought this because earlier on in the 2nd half there was a foul against us near the half way line. We had possession and the ball was switched to the right where we had a clear opportunity to attack, yet the ref refused to play the advantage and pulled it back. It was ridiculous. 

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9 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

100% wrong, of course he can. For instance, if there is serious foul play by a defender but the ball runs to a striker with an open goal ( and the referee sees this and plays advantage)  and he scores, then the referee would give the goal and then send the defender off for serious foul play.

If Mulgrew (who took out Tammy in the lead up to our goal yesterday) had already been booked, then he would have been sent off, as it was he was just booked. 

What your saying is that if the referee plays advantage then it gives players carte blanche to punch players in the face and stay on the pitch!!!

 

Quite simply, if advantage is played, a red card cannot be issued, trust me, 100% right. If a decision is deemed worthy enough for a straight red, play has to be stopped. 

The only time a red card advantage can be played is if it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity, i.e. An open goal, not even a one on one. In this case, Abraham would have had defenders in front of him, thus no red card could have been issued.

If mulgrew had already been booked, the ref would've had to stop play to send him off, or just let him off. You're wrong on this occasion and I know this as a fact.

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6 hours ago, Up The City! said:

I was very surprised he played the advantage. I remember thinking at the time he's gonna call it back. I thought this because earlier on in the 2nd half there was a foul against us near the half way line. We had possession and the ball was switched to the right where we had a clear opportunity to attack, yet the ref refused to play the advantage and pulled it back. It was ridiculous. 

I must confess on seeing Wilbs with the ball out wide I was screaming for the foul on Tammy as I didn't think he could do bits from there, he soon shut me up!!

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8 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

Quite simply, if advantage is played, a red card cannot be issued, trust me, 100% right. If a decision is deemed worthy enough for a straight red, play has to be stopped. 

The only time a red card advantage can be played is if it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity, i.e. An open goal, not even a one on one. In this case, Abraham would have had defenders in front of him, thus no red card could have been issued.

If mulgrew had already been booked, the ref would've had to stop play to send him off, or just let him off. You're wrong on this occasion and I know this as a fact.

Well your 'fact' is wrong! 

The referee may play advantage whenever an infringement or offence occurs.

The referee should consider the following circumstances in deciding whether to apply the advantage or stop play:

  • the severity of the offence: if the infringement warrants an expulsion, the

    referee must stop play and send off the player unless there is a subsequent

    opportunity to score a goal

  • the position where the offence was committed: the closer to the

    opponent’s goal, the more effective it can be

  • the chances of an immediate, promising attack

  • the atmosphere of the match

    The decision to penalise the original offence must be taken within a few seconds.

    If the offence warrants a caution, it must be issued at the next stoppage. However, unless there is a clear advantage, it is recommended that the referee stops play and cautions the player immediately. If the caution is NOT issued at the next stoppage, it cannot be shown later. 

If Mulgrew was already on a yellow card he would have been sent off. 

The ref would not have had to stop play, he would have done it at the next stoppage, he subsequently booked him when we scored.

This happens on a regular basis.

Also you have totally contradicted  what you said in your first post, where you said no player can be sent off when advantage is being played!! 

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Well your 'fact' is wrong! 

The referee may play advantage whenever an infringement or offence occurs.

The referee should consider the following circumstances in deciding whether to apply the advantage or stop play:

  • the severity of the offence: if the infringement warrants an expulsion, the

    referee must stop play and send off the player unless there is a subsequent

    opportunity to score a goal

  • the position where the offence was committed: the closer to the

    opponent’s goal, the more effective it can be

  • the chances of an immediate, promising attack

  • the atmosphere of the match

    The decision to penalise the original offence must be taken within a few seconds.

    If the offence warrants a caution, it must be issued at the next stoppage. However, unless there is a clear advantage, it is recommended that the referee stops play and cautions the player immediately. If the caution is NOT issued at the next stoppage, it cannot be shown later. 

If Mulgrew was already on a yellow card he would have been sent off. 

The ref would not have had to stop play, he would have done it at the next stoppage, he subsequently booked him when we scored.

This happens on a regular basis.

Also you have totally contradicted  what you said in your first post, where you said no player can be sent off when advantage is being played!! 

 

 

 

 

I've recently been on a refereeing course, I know for a fact you can't. They deem it as 'Game Control'. 

Anyway, read it again, if it's deemed an expulsion, the referee must stop play.

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13 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

I've recently been on a refereeing course, I know for a fact you can't. They deem it as 'Game Control'. 

Anyway, read it again, if it's deemed an expulsion, the referee must stop play.

I've been reffing on and off for 25 years! Which part don't of the law don't you understand?

The ref does not have to stop play if there is a subsequent opportunity to score. 

He can then go back and send a player off  ( or yellow card) if it's justified.

This is exactly what happened on Saturday.

 

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9 hours ago, JasonM88 said:

Quite simply, if advantage is played, a red card cannot be issued, trust me, 100% right. If a decision is deemed worthy enough for a straight red, play has to be stopped. 

The only time a red card advantage can be played is if it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity, i.e. An open goal, not even a one on one. In this case, Abraham would have had defenders in front of him, thus no red card could have been issued.

If mulgrew had already been booked, the ref would've had to stop play to send him off, or just let him off. You're wrong on this occasion and I know this as a fact.

A one on one is an obvious goal scoring opportunity. If advantage is played, a red card can be issued, trust me, 100% right. What level do you referee at?

It's a very rare occasion where a referee will let play go on for a red card offence, however if he deems there to be an obvious goal scoring opportunity he is well within his rights to play advantage and come back to send the player off. The only instance where this wouldn't happen is for violent conduct.

If Mulgrew had been booked, the referee could have played advantage for Wilbraham as he saw fit and then came back to show Mulgrew his second yellow and his red. 

I don't know where you are getting your "facts" from?

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12 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I've been reffing on and off for 25 years! Which part don't of the law don't you understand?

The ref does not have to stop play if there is a subsequent opportunity to score. 

He can then go back and send a player off  ( or yellow card) if it's justified.

This is exactly what happened on Saturday.

 

It wasn't an obvious goal scoring opportunity on Saturday at all, there was 3 defenders between the ball. 

I was told, in these words 

that if a red card offence occurs in any area of the pitch, stop play, unless the player is about to score, as in "no doubt about scoring". However, take into consideration, what effect the offending player can have on the game after the foul, during the advantage. If he can have any effect, play must be stopped and the player issued a red card. 

A referee quite simply won't issue a red card after an advantage, full stop.

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6 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

It wasn't an obvious goal scoring opportunity on Saturday at all, there was 3 defenders between the ball. 

I was told, in these words 

that if a red card offence occurs in any area of the pitch, stop play, unless the player is about to score, as in "no doubt about scoring". However, take into consideration, what effect the offending player can have on the game after the foul, during the advantage. If he can have any effect, play must be stopped and the player issued a red card. 

A referee quite simply won't issue a red card after an advantage, full stop.

Who told you this? The majority of what you have said is correct but the fact you have said he cannot issue a red card after advantage is false. A referee can and will issue a red card after advantage, however the likelihood of this happening is small. 

This is because usually red card offences are of a serious nature and need dealing with there and then. However if a player is fouled whilst through on goal (DOGSO), and his team mate collects the ball and is one on one with the keeper the referee by law is allowed to play the advantage for the player as it is an obvious goal scoring opportunity. If the player then doesn't score he can bring it back for the free kick (and send the player off) as the advantage the referee foresaw was the player scoring a goal. This is very rare like I said but by law it can happen.

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25 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

It wasn't an obvious goal scoring opportunity on Saturday at all, there was 3 defenders between the ball. 

I was told, in these words 

that if a red card offence occurs in any area of the pitch, stop play, unless the player is about to score, as in "no doubt about scoring". However, take into consideration, what effect the offending player can have on the game after the foul, during the advantage. If he can have any effect, play must be stopped and the player issued a red card. 

A referee quite simply won't issue a red card after an advantage, full stop.

Mate, your wrong.You stated a player can not be sent off or given a 2nd yellow card if the referee is playing an advantage.

He can, end of.

 

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19 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Mate, your wrong.You stated a player can not be sent off or given a 2nd yellow card if the referee is playing an advantage.

He can, end of.

 

So... hypothetically, in your scenario:

Player is already on a yellow, commits a foul deemed worthy of a second by the referee, but he plays advantage. The advantage breaks down but the ball stays in play and the referee doesn't pull it back for the foul, then the offending player is still on the pitch, able to affect the play until the next stoppage (I.e. Score, make saving tackles, commit a further offence etc) when he will subsequently be sent off?

If that is the rules, that is stupid...

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5 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

Suggest you update your referee training then. End of

Haha! You have come full circle, Your first post stated you can't send off anyone if advantage is being played, Then in your last post you stated, unless a player is about to score. 

You cant have it both ways!!

Make sure you properly learn the laws before your first game.

Good luck, whenever it is.

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17 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

So... hypothetically, in your scenario:

Player is already on a yellow, commits a foul deemed worthy of a second by the referee, but he plays advantage. The advantage breaks down but the ball stays in play and the referee doesn't pull it back for the foul, then the offending player is still on the pitch, able to affect the play until the next stoppage (I.e. Score, make saving tackles, commit a further offence etc) when he will subsequently be sent off?

If that is the rules, that is stupid...

The only time he would play the advantage is if there is a clear obvious goalscoring opportunity, so if the player didn't score then he would bring it back for the foul. Like I said before this is extremely rare and chances are the ref wouldn't play the advantage to cover his own back, but by law he is able to.

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44 minutes ago, Coxy27 said:

So... hypothetically, in your scenario:

Player is already on a yellow, commits a foul deemed worthy of a second by the referee, but he plays advantage. The advantage breaks down but the ball stays in play and the referee doesn't pull it back for the foul, then the offending player is still on the pitch, able to affect the play until the next stoppage (I.e. Score, make saving tackles, commit a further offence etc) when he will subsequently be sent off?

If that is the rules, that is stupid...

Yes, and it does happen, I can remember a player ( it was in a league 2 game highlights show) last seasons n getting sent off for 2 booking offences whilst the ball was still in play, when the ref was playing advantage from this first offence.

Take Saturdays situation, if Wilbrahams shot had been saved and then Mulgrew had committed another yellow card offence whilst still in that period of play, he would have received 2 yellows. One for the original foul on TA and one for the 2nd foul.

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5 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Yes, and it does happen, I can remember a player ( it was in a league 2 game highlights show) last seasons n getting sent off for 2 booking offences whilst the ball was still in play, when the ref was playing advantage from this first offence.

Take Saturdays situation, if Wilbrahams shot had been saved and then Mulgrew had committed another yellow card offence whilst still in that period of play, he would have received 2 yellows. One for the original foul on TA and one for the 2nd foul.

No he wouldn't have

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30 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

No he wouldn't have

I'll just leave this here....  http://www.skysports.com/football/news/12019/9983843/chris-bairds-red-card-was-the-correct-decision - Not only is it possible, but it happened at the highest level of the game just over a year ago....and was confirmed to be the correct decision when questioned.

Oh...almost forgot... End of.

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7 minutes ago, JasonM88 said:

He was widely criticised, even by the likes of Howard Webb. Yes, it's the letter of the law, however in the summer I was told most professional refs are advised against doing to for 'game control' purposes

Unwritten rule . Common sense. You ain't going far if u use any of this instead of applying law. I learnt the hard way!!

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5 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

If his shot was saved the ref had every right to just play on. He had played the advantage, but it doesn't mean we must score from it. 

If it had been Luke Freeman receiving the ball, and the ref played advantage, then when Freeman missed, is the ref allowed to see the error of his ways and bring the game back because it was never going to be an advantage?

It's not easy this refereeing malarkey.

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