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Freeman

Leveller

By Leveller
in Football Chat

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Ivorguy

Ivorguy

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Opened OTIB expecting to see a sizeable thread about Freeman injury - possibly out for three months - and LJ saying how well he has been playing. 

Nothing. Have I missed something?

Have I missed something is surely what Freeman says after every match!

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Leveller

Leveller

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2 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Have I missed something is surely what Freeman says after every match!

I've always supported him and still rate him - but he gets slated by about 80% on here. Yet the manager says how much better he is playing this season and how much he is contributing, and is picking him for nearly every match.

its an interesting disconnect between fans and management that so obviously parallels the chat about LJ himself when he was playing here. Again, at the time I always rated him, but he was regularly slagged off by a majority on OTIB. Fans are often wrong.

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iamalagerdrinker

iamalagerdrinker

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, RedRaw said:

Have I missed the news that he is out for 3 months?

All I heard was he was having a scan and if OK could play Saturday or worst case scenario could be out for a few weeks.....purely conjecture at this point

LJ said something along the lines of that and that if it's worst case scenario it could be 3/4 months 

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Monkeh

Monkeh

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3 hours ago, Leveller said:

I've always supported him and still rate him - but he gets slated by about 80% on here. Yet the manager says how much better he is playing this season and how much he is contributing, and is picking him for nearly every match.

its an interesting disconnect between fans and management that so obviously parallels the chat about LJ himself when he was playing here. Again, at the time I always rated him, but he was regularly slagged off by a majority on OTIB. Fans are often wrong.

last season he didn't step up, this season he's improved and people have acknowledged it

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EnclosureSurge

EnclosureSurge

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Leveller said:

I've always supported him and still rate him - but he gets slated by about 80% on here. Yet the manager says how much better he is playing this season and how much he is contributing, and is picking him for nearly every match.

its an interesting disconnect between fans and management that so obviously parallels the chat about LJ himself when he was playing here. Again, at the time I always rated him, but he was regularly slagged off by a majority on OTIB. Fans are often wrong.

I support him, too, but understand why people question his place in the team (not the slagging off, though).

But one question: what has he actually done of real, proper, full-on consequence? (Goal at Fham, apart)

No assists. No real shots on target. Lots of willing running. Plenty of stepovers (although, ironically, the first and last time he went by his man was when he dipped his shoulder early on v Blackburn in front of the away end). Very little effect. 

I will reiterate, I rate him (certainly as a skillful player and a talent), but wonder what his contribution is? It can't just be that he's part of a team who's doing well. Individually, I don't see what he affects. His stepovers take him nowhere, he doesn't really possess another trick, he has no dinky creative passing, nor long-range, his crosses are ok but haven't led to a goal this year and, cruelly, he's been robbed of his greatest strength, being the best corner taker in the club. Why, oh friggin why, has the bloke who set up about 13 of Flinty's 15 headers from corners in L1 been usurped by O'Neil and Bryan and Reid and O'Dowda? Nothing against any of them, but they're not as accurate as Freeman.

But back to why he's being picked. The staff, I'm willing to bet, are mad about stats, so where are the stats they're all pointing to that show Freeman is worth a starting place (remember I love him, too, folks)? Let's not compare this to O'Dowda - he's a younger work-in-progress. Let's not compare Freeman to Paterson, as Paterson is more direct and goes down the middle more, plus has had more effective shots than Freeman.

I'm not in the slagging brigade, but Freeman does go down quite a few rabbit holes and needs too many touches for my liking. He was brilliant in L1 and I'll always hold him fondly (yes, yes) for that, but he does less in this div than required and, unless Lee Johnson has something in store to develop him somehow, I'd suggest O'Dowda would be a better bet.

Don't forget, I'm not slagging. I'm genuinely looking to see where Freeman's influence is. 

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Redandy

Redandy

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Leveller said:

I've always supported him and still rate him - but he gets slated by about 80% on here. Yet the manager says how much better he is playing this season and how much he is contributing, and is picking him for nearly every match.

its an interesting disconnect between fans and management that so obviously parallels the chat about LJ himself when he was playing here. Again, at the time I always rated him, but he was regularly slagged off by a majority on OTIB. Fans are often wrong.

I saw my first game last week so probably not qualified to comment on how well Freeman has been  playing. But I saw nothing different from last year. Not able to beat a player and seems to run in to trouble every time he does. Undoubtedly gives it everything but what am I missing for you to rate him ?

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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1 hour ago, EnclosureSurge said:

I support him, too, but understand why people question his place in the team (not the slagging off, though).

But one question: what has he actually done of real, proper, full-on consequence? (Goal at Fham, apart)

No assists. No real shots on target. Lots of willing running. Plenty of stepovers (although, ironically, the first and last time he went by his man was when he dipped his shoulder early on v Blackburn in front of the away end). Very little effect. 

I will reiterate, I rate him (certainly as a skillful player and a talent), but wonder what his contribution is? It can't just be that he's part of a team who's doing well. Individually, I don't see what he affects. His stepovers take him nowhere, he doesn't really possess another trick, he has no dinky creative passing, nor long-range, his crosses are ok but haven't led to a goal this year and, cruelly, he's been robbed of his greatest strength, being the best corner taker in the club. Why, oh friggin why, has the bloke who set up about 13 of Flinty's 15 headers from corners in L1 been usurped by O'Neil and Bryan and Reid and O'Dowda? Nothing against any of them, but they're not as accurate as Freeman.

But back to why he's being picked. The staff, I'm willing to bet, are mad about stats, so where are the stats they're all pointing to that show Freeman is worth a starting place (remember I love him, too, folks)? Let's not compare this to O'Dowda - he's a younger work-in-progress. Let's not compare Freeman to Paterson, as Paterson is more direct and goes down the middle more, plus has had more effective shots than Freeman.

I'm not in the slagging brigade, but Freeman does go down quite a few rabbit holes and needs too many touches for my liking. He was brilliant in L1 and I'll always hold him fondly (yes, yes) for that, but he does less in this div than required and, unless Lee Johnson has something in store to develop him somehow, I'd suggest O'Dowda would be a better bet.

Don't forget, I'm not slagging. I'm genuinely looking to see where Freeman's influence is. 

Agree except for one thing. Since Ipswich at home last season his corners have been woeful. He got 2 assist in that game (I think) but I haven't seen a single good corner taken by him after that.

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EnclosureSurge

EnclosureSurge

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39 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Agree except for one thing. Since Ipswich at home last season his corners have been woeful. He got 2 assist in that game (I think) but I haven't seen a single good corner taken by him after that.

That was after Cotts left, wasn't it, I think? The Ipswich game. Since then, and you're right, his corners haven't been as good, but from what I can see that's because they've been different.

In L1 his corners were whipped in at such pace, lower trajectory that, if they were accurate enough, they torpedoed at Flint's bonce. Now we've gone back to the floaty-floaty shyte, no matter who's taking them (and too many people are taking them in my opinion, esp O'Neil who should be deployed on the edge of the box for me). Floaty-floaty doesn't floaty floaty my boaty boaty. Far easier to defend, far harder to attack and score from.

I wouldn't mind if they were just mixed up a little, but our corners have gone back to being humdrum, after a glorious 12/18 months stretch. 

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JamesBCFC

JamesBCFC

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1 hour ago, EnclosureSurge said:

That was after Cotts left, wasn't it, I think? The Ipswich game. Since then, and you're right, his corners haven't been as good, but from what I can see that's because they've been different.

In L1 his corners were whipped in at such pace, lower trajectory that, if they were accurate enough, they torpedoed at Flint's bonce. Now we've gone back to the floaty-floaty shyte, no matter who's taking them (and too many people are taking them in my opinion, esp O'Neil who should be deployed on the edge of the box for me). Floaty-floaty doesn't floaty floaty my boaty boaty. Far easier to defend, far harder to attack and score from.

I wouldn't mind if they were just mixed up a little, but our corners have gone back to being humdrum, after a glorious 12/18 months stretch. 

Yeah, the Ipswich game was the very first one under LJ

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EnclosureSurge

EnclosureSurge

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I suppose if he does have a significant time on the sidelines, we will actually be able to see what he does/does not offer to the team. 

IMO, I think he is doing alright and has improved a lot since last season.

Improvement or no, what is he offering? No-one's indicated that yet...

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ScottishRed

ScottishRed

Posted
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1 hour ago, EnclosureSurge said:

Improvement or no, what is he offering? No-one's indicated that yet...

Agreed and he actually doesn't offer a lot. As mentioned above he rarely delivers anything, lots of energy and effort but loses the ball most of the time. I feel he wants / needs too many touches and doesn't see the options quickly enough when he is in possession hence the ball retention is very low.

in Div 1 he did very well but as we all know the Championship is a huge step up and I doubt he can cut it.

As a general point our corners have been dire this season, regardless of the taker, and I agree there are too many of them. I do hope this is being worked on in training because we have some lads that can get on the end of quality corners but are not getting the chance.

i don't understand why the most talented player in the team isn't taking them, he isn't going to win a header in the box and although he is positioned to try and take advantage of the 2nd ball I would rather he actually took the corners.

 

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EnclosureSurge

EnclosureSurge

Posted
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41 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Agreed and he actually doesn't offer a lot. As mentioned above he rarely delivers anything, lots of energy and effort but loses the ball most of the time. I feel he wants / needs too many touches and doesn't see the options quickly enough when he is in possession hence the ball retention is very low.

in Div 1 he did very well but as we all know the Championship is a huge step up and I doubt he can cut it.

As a general point our corners have been dire this season, regardless of the taker, and I agree there are too many of them. I do hope this is being worked on in training because we have some lads that can get on the end of quality corners but are not getting the chance.

i don't understand why the most talented player in the team isn't taking them, he isn't going to win a header in the box and although he is positioned to try and take advantage of the 2nd ball I would rather he actually took the corners.

 

As my brother has pointed out, some managers see this as a priority in training (Cotts) in order to gain an extra 5%, others (Johnson) don't and prefer to work on ball retention/formation fluidity/shape/tikky-takka-taktiks.

Is it too simple to surmise Johnson is small and didn't get amongst many corners/set-pieces as a player and so doesn't see their importance as much as someone like Cotts who, playing for Vimbledon, vould hav loved ze chance to boosh one in ze net from ein corner? (No, me either - and I was starting to make a rational point then, too)

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