England V Scotland Natch Day Thread

[Kid in the Riot]

Even though I've now retired from 'international duty' following the shambles that was this summer's campaign in France, England v Scotland in a qualifier at Wembley on Armistice Day is still a fixture to look forward to. The oldest fixture in international football with the sides first meeting in 1872.

I attended the friendly win up at Celtic Park in 2014 and the atmosphere was as good as its been at any England fixture I've attended including competitive fixtures and tournaments. They'd love to get one over on us, especially at Wembley. Even at the new Wembley, where the atmosphere is typically pretty sombre they'll be no chance of that tonight with over 14,000 jocks on the slosh.

Both sides are under pressure for a result, reportedly a win for England would secure Southgate the manager's job on a permanent basis. After a relatively successful first 12 months in charge Gordon Strachan's Scotland have slid backwards of late and desperately need any kind of result to stand a chance of qualifying for Russia 2018.

Scotland's squad consists mostly of Championship quality players with Strachan bizarrely continuing to leave Charlie Adam out in the cold, though they do welcome back the influential and popular Scott Brown from his 3 month international retirement!

Southgate looks set to return Rooney to the line-up, which for this game I fully agree with - see Rooney's performance at Celtic Park to see how much this fixture means to him.

England have been poor on their last two outings under Southgate but I expect them to come out the blocks tonight and hopefully get an early goal, leading onto a 2-0 victory. Alas, things are rarely that straightforward with England.

Here's hoping for a bit of magic tonight!

 

[Super]

Quite sad really, remember the great players from both countries now we are possibly looking at the worst ever England and Scotland teams in recent history.

[Red Army 75]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Even though I've now retired from 'international duty' following the shambles that was this summer's campaign in France, England v Scotland in a qualifier at Wembley on Armistice Day is still a fixture to look forward to. The oldest fixture in international football with the sides first meeting in 1872.

I attended the friendly win up at Celtic Park in 2014 and the atmosphere was as good as its been at any England fixture I've attended including competitive fixtures and tournaments. They'd love to get one over on us, especially at Wembley. Even at the new Wembley, where the atmosphere is typically pretty sombre they'll be no chance of that tonight with over 14,000 jocks on the slosh.

Both sides are under pressure for a result, reportedly a win for England would secure Southgate the manager's job on a permanent basis. After a relatively successful first 12 months in charge Gordon Strachan's Scotland have slid backwards of late and desperately need any kind of result to stand a chance of qualifying for Russia 2018.

Scotland's squad consists mostly of Championship quality players with Strachan bizarrely continuing to leave Charlie Adam out in the cold, though they do welcome back the influential and popular Scott Brown from his 3 month international retirement!

Southgate looks set to return Rooney to the line-up, which for this game I fully agree with - see Rooney's performance at Celtic Park to see how much this fixture means to him.

England have been poor on their last two outings under Southgate but I expect them to come out the blocks tonight and hopefully get an early goal, leading onto a 2-0 victory. Alas, things are rarely that straightforward with England.

Here's hoping for a bit of magic tonight!

 

What a goal that was . Loved watching England back then. Not so much anymore. But looking forward to tonight. England v Scotland a must watch for me

[spudski]

I will sit down and watch this game and remember the great games of the past when it actually meant something.

Although a WC Q game...I'm finding it hard to get enthused over it.

It's Ironic that the game has landed on this day and that it's the longest held fixture between two nations.

Two nations that fought for freedom....yet have to bow down to a bunch of Swiss telling them they can't wear what they want on their shirts, and that Scotland have to wear pink.

When I see them line up for the National anthems, I can't help think that it will grate with me, make my stomach churn.

Surely on this day and with this fixture...both nations should have taken a stance and refused to bow down to the crap.

This coming from a bloke who's the least political you could meet.

[And Its Smith]

I might have a natch day myself then I wouldn't be able to see the ball later, which would be no bad thing.

[WWred]

I really think if we concede first we won't score. With the pressure already and being a side that clearly cannot cope (Hence the Iceland game) we will crumble.

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's Ironic that the game has landed on this day and that it's the longest held fixture between two nations.

Two nations that fought for freedom....yet have to bow down to a bunch of Swiss telling them they can't wear what they want on their shirts, and that Scotland have to wear pink.

When I see them line up for the National anthems, I can't help think that it will grate with me, make my stomach churn.

Surely on this day and with this fixture...both nations should have taken a stance and refused to bow down to the crap.

This coming from a bloke who's the least political you could meet.

Has a decision been made about wearing the poppy?  Are both teams prepared to ignore FIFA? 

I hope so.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I will sit down and watch this game and remember the great games of the past when it actually meant something.

Although a WC Q game...I'm finding it hard to get enthused over it.

It's Ironic that the game has landed on this day and that it's the longest held fixture between two nations.

Two nations that fought for freedom....yet have to bow down to a bunch of Swiss telling them they can't wear what they want on their shirts, and that Scotland have to wear pink.

When I see them line up for the National anthems, I can't help think that it will grate with me, make my stomach churn.

Surely on this day and with this fixture...both nations should have taken a stance and refused to bow down to the crap.

This coming from a bloke who's the least political you could meet.

England and Scotland are making a stand as both teams will wear the poppy on armbands, though the latest line from FIFA appears to claim that they did not tell the respective FA's that the poppy was banned anyway - so who knows. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37941626

The pink shirts thing is regrettable but one has to question why on earth the Scotland home shirt has big white sleeves on it! Should be dark blue - simple as.

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Has a decision been made about wearing the poppy?  Are both teams prepared to ignore FIFA? 

I hope so.

Armbands as Kid says. But what gets my goat, is that the FA even bothered to ask FIFA....they imo, should have just got on and done it.

Tbh...the wearing of the poppy bit doesn't really bother me...it's the principle that bothers me more.

[One Team In Keynsham]

Clashes with The Wonderstuff and Echo and The Bumnymen,  will be skipping the game.

[spudski]

What I forgot to say, was, that it annoys me as to how thick and dumb the people at the FA are...

Anyone would do due diligence and research as to what the Poppy signifies, before requesting as to whether they can wear it or not.

5 mins research and you find your answer...at the bottom of this article...

HISTORY OF THE POPPY

During the First World War (1914–1918) much of the fighting took place in Western Europe. Previously beautiful countryside was blasted, bombed and fought over, again and again. The landscape swiftly turned to fields of mud: bleak and barren scenes where little or nothing could grow.

Bright red Flanders poppies (Papaver rhoeas) however, were delicate but resilient flowers and grew in their thousands, flourishing even in the middle of chaos and destruction. In early May 1915, shortly after losing a friend in Ypres, a Canadian doctor, Lt Col John McCrae was inspired by the sight of poppies to write a now famous poem called 'In Flanders Fields'.

McCrae’s poem inspired an American academic, Moina Michael, to make and sell red silk poppies which were brought to England by a French woman, Anna Guérin. The (Royal) British Legion, formed in 1921, ordered 9 million of these poppies and sold them on 11 November that year. The poppies sold out almost immediately and that first ever 'Poppy Appeal' raised over £106,000; a considerable amount of money at the time. This was used to help WW1 veterans with employment and housing.

The following year, Major George Howson set up the Poppy Factory to employ disabled ex-Servicemen. Today, the factory and the Legion's warehouse in Aylesford produces millions of poppies each year.

The demand for poppies in England was so high that few were reaching Scotland. Earl Haig's wife established the 'Lady Haig Poppy Factory' in Edinburgh in 1926 to produce poppies exclusively for Scotland. Over 5 million Scottish poppies (which have four petals and no leaf unlike poppies in the rest of the UK) are still made by hand by disabled ex-Servicemen at Lady Haig's Poppy Factory each year and distributed by our sister charity Poppyscotland.

The poem

IN FLANDERS FIELDS

In Flanders' fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders' fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe;
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high,
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow  
In Flanders' Fields.

 

FOREVER ALBUM

In commemoration of the First World War centenary, the Legion and Decca Records have released a very special album of spoken words and music that includes "In Flanders Fields" read by Stephen Fry and another version, read by the descendants of WW1 VC recipients.

In addition, there are readings by Danny Dyer, Sarah Millican, Dan Snow, Sean Bean and Jim Naughtie with music by The Central Band of The Royal British Legion.

 

WHAT THE POPPY MEANS

The poppy is

• A symbol of Remembrance and hope
• Worn by millions of people
• Red because of the natural colour of field poppies

The poppy is NOT

• A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
• A reflection of politics or religion
• Red to reflect the colour of blood

Wearing a poppy is a personal choice and reflects individual and personal memories. It is not compulsory but is greatly appreciated by those it helps – our beneficiaries: those currently serving in our Armed Forces, veterans, and their families and dependants.

[And Its Smith]

Nobody cared that teams didn't wear poppies before 2010 but now people are up in arms about it.  If poppies on football shirts was a long held tradition I could understand it.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Nobody cared that teams didn't wear poppies before 2010 but now people are up in arms about it.  If poppies on football shirts was a long held tradition I could understand it.

I don't think it's about the wearing of the poppy...more to do with the principle of being told you are not allowed to.

However...like everything in the media these days, stories get distorted, as the BBC article shows that Kid has linked.

Everyone getting angry about being told they cannot wear the poppy...yet if that BBC article is correct, then it just goes to show how dumb the FA are.

FIFA rule stipulates...'political statements'.

As I found within 5 mins...

The poppy is

• A symbol of Remembrance and hope
• Worn by millions of people
• Red because of the natural colour of field poppies

The poppy is NOT

• A symbol of death or a sign of support for war
• A reflection of politics or religion
• Red to reflect the colour of blood

 

So how stupid do the FA look? They didn't even need to ask for permission, as it's not political... Idiots...

 

[1960maaan]

37 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

Clashes with The Wonderstuff and Echo and The Bumnymen,  will be skipping the game.

Shine? Lineup looks good , wish I'd noticed this before. Wonderstuff were great at the Fleece early in the year.

[Bar BS3]

When is the match?

I can't believe how disinterested I am in the national team now. 

So sad after all the memories of moments past, but I really could not give a toss anymore. 

Thanks you bunch of overpaid pricks! 

[One Team In Keynsham]

10 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Shine? Lineup looks good , wish I'd noticed this before. Wonderstuff were great at the Fleece early in the year.

Yup, 1st night at Minehead.  Way better prospect than Poppeygate and Rooney lumbering his aging self over the once-hallowed turf.

[wendyredredrobin]

England's recent performances have all been a bit dull and lacked any energy and zest (massive understatement).  As always, I'm looking forward to the game, but not expecting any excitement.

Whilst I held Gareth Southgate in high regard as a player and he is technically good as a manager, the players don't seem to have freedom to express any flair.

What I would like to see is two teams attacking each other but what we will probably see is another dull boring affair with one team or another winning by the odd goal.

[cityloyal473]

I'll not be watching it.  I'd rather poke my eye with cocktail sticks.

[seacider]

Will be there with my lad - can't wait ,should be fun - anyone else going ?

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

Yup, 1st night at Minehead.  Way better prospect than Poppeygate and Rooney lumbering his aging self over the once-hallowed turf.

It's a funny one Poppies are important gestures to me. Born in 60 when there were still bombsite, rationing had only ended completely 6 short years before I was born. I think it's important to remember, and not to make the same mistakes, plus raise money for a very worthy cause. That said if you do it to keep the peace or to keep others off your back is it really worth it?

As for the football, the Euros nearly finished it for me. Haven't gone to watch them for ages but when it gets to the point where you can't be bothered to sit near a tv to watch then that is a sad statement on the team. I'm nearly there, said to my mrs I'll maybe give it until half time, they have a long way to go to get fans back onside.

[Vincent Vega]

19 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

When is the match?

I can't believe how disinterested I am in the national team now. 

So sad after all the memories of moments past, but I really could not give a toss anymore. 

Thanks you bunch of overpaid pricks! 

With you on this , never been more underwhelmed by a England v Scotland  game in my life.

[One Team In Keynsham]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's a funny one Poppies are important gestures to me. Born in 60 when there were still bombsite, rationing had only ended completely 6 short years before I was born. I think it's important to remember, and not to make the same mistakes, plus raise money for a very worthy cause. That said if you do it to keep the peace or to keep others off your back is it really worth it?

As for the football, the Euros nearly finished it for me. Haven't gone to watch them for ages but when it gets to the point where you can't be bothered to sit near a tv to watch then that is a sad statement on the team. I'm nearly there, said to my mrs I'll maybe give it until half time, they have a long way to go to get fans back onside.

Poppies are an important gesture, but somehow everybody managed to show respect for Remembrance Day before poppies started to be ironed onto football shirts some time in the last decade.

[1960maaan]

7 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

Poppies are an important gesture, but somehow everybody managed to show respect for Remembrance Day before poppies started to be ironed onto football shirts some time in the last decade.

Yep, I'm not sure I feel comfortable with the Poppy 'ON' the shirt, I actually prefer the armband, just seems a little less corporate .

[Port Said Red]

I am in Scotland with work right now, I only found out I was coming here on Tuesday so thank goodness the game is at Wembley, I don't think I would have got a flight here otherwise!

['Orns]

I'm more interested in meeting a few mates over the local and blowing the froth of a few than the game itself

England vs Scotland, ffs, and I'm not fussed. Loved the Home Internationals as a kid, and the two legged WC play off game in the late 90s were fantastic. Gazza's goal will live long in the memory, now I'm just not bothered (caveat - as long as we win!)

I'll keep an eye on the anthems, I hope our lads actually try and inject some enthusiasm into our dirge. And, invariably, I'll find myself humming along to FoS, great tune, sang with gusto

[ballwinningcentrehalf]

Hoping Scotland can cause a shock but I'd fully expect a pretty bland and comfortable England victory.

[exAtyeoMax]

I was going to go, but it sold out before my friends decided to come or not. At least at the match you don't have to listen to Clive…

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Really looking forward to this, not bothered by whats gone before, its been a generation since we've actually been good so nothing new, the game should have the right amount of hostility to be intetesting whatever the result.

If you take the national team for what it is you'll find it more interesting. people moan too much, even when we win we don't win 'enough' or if we lose its because X&Y get paid too much by their clubs. 

I find if funny when people moan that they don't give a monkeys but make endless comments about it, just ignore it completely if you dont care, thats what i do with things that hold no intetest, like scottish football. 

[Lew-T]

Couldn't care less. 

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Still at work but leaving soon to London. Will try my best to make some noise but I've a funny feeling the England end will be typically poor.