When your two highest paid players complain...

[DingleRed]

14 minutes ago, Xiled said:

Therein lies part of the problem. If I was a player and got a rollicking from Alec Ferguson or Brian Clough, it would have probably scared me into playing better. I'm not sure the same treatment from LJ would have the same effect.

We didn't employ a "hairdryer" coach, we employed a "young and upcoming tactician".  As harsh as it is, tearing strips off Tomlin or O'Neill can only backfire. And that might have happened.

In an average job if you complain to the top boss, you're looking to effect a change. In football, that only means one thing - you want the coach/manager to be replaced. That's why it's serious when it happens.

And as for the suggestions that the club move the dissenters on, that isn't possible I'm afraid. You might get them out on loan but the likes of Tomlin will not drop to L1 after taking a punt on us. No club in the Championship will now risk his potential for disharmony. He's going nowhere.

When senior pros take their grievances to owners/chairmen, there's only one outcome. We'll be job receiving applications and expressions of interest very soon....

I think you'll find Eddie Howe at 39 is very much in the same mould. That's why Lee Tomlin is with us. Take a look at the Harry Arter interview in the Mail last Saturday.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Maybe this has had something to do with it 

It [criticism of players in public] didn't happen very often during Sir Alex Ferguson's reign. It was a central part of his managerial philosophy that he didn't criticise players in public," said Stone. 

"Sir Alex felt it undermined the trust between manager and player. Without that he felt he could not get the most he wanted from the squad

 

In fact he made a deliberate point in sounding off at the press instead, who were all totally scared of him, but not criticising his own players publicly.

He also created a mythical "siege mentality", constantly making out everyone was against Man U, which in truth was utter bollocks, because his constant bullying of match officials actually meant they got a lot more than their fair share of dubious decisions under him..

[MartockRed]

Fantastic.

Everyone looks for a reason for failure, so someone conjures a conspiracy theory, which only creates more divide and acts as a catalyst for even more failure. 

I've a theory which probably has more legs than this one. 

Approximately 70 mins after Bristol City Football Club take the field, an invisible sphincter fairy appears, and steals all the players sphincters. Even though they try hard for the remainder of the game, inevitably they can't prevent their a**ehole from falling out. 

Now, most of the preparation time for the following match, is solely focused on collectively repairing all the players sphincters. Knowing the fairy will undoubtedly return, the coaches devise a fairy repellent (something the fairy is allergic to, maybe garlic, or perhaps peanut butter), and apply it to every sphincter the day before match day. 

Unfortunely this particular fairy is a hardy little b*****d, and thus far hasn't been deterred from its wicked ways. 

However, one day an effective repellent will be devised, we will gain 3 points, and more importantly the sphincter fairy will be gone forevermore...

It's a crazy thought I know, but you try telling a squad as young as ours that fairies don't exist. 

[stokes7]

Apparently the club are aware of these comments and it's not true it's been reported to the club :laugh:

[JHAGa]

This is why the team spirit we had under SC was so pivotal but the board fell out with him when he expressed grievances at them letting him down.

 

If true about Paterson and Tomlin, it's no surprise, they are two of the most unintelligent players going by interviews and so are more likely to throw toys out of the pram when the going gets tough. Not sure about GON.

 

Wish they'd show bottle on the pitch instead of acting like snakes off the field.

[WhistleHappy]

Sadly what we haven't got this year but perhaps desperately need is an impassioned Divvy 'having a word' in the dressing room... 

Maybe Derren Brown is available for an hour or twos group brainwashing/hypnosis?  how the **** or otherwise by who can the current situation be retrieved??

To quote a lyric....

It's sad, so sad

Its a sad, sad situation

And it's getting more absurd.

 

We all know this lot are more than capable of doing the business when they want to, they've proved that brilliantly already, now they are even better equipped to do so with recent additions... if I was SL I'd be f'ing livid with the lot of 'em and demanding to see the professionalism that they're handsomely paid for each week. Whatever personal grievances or personality clash's exist, there is no room for anything less than maximum professionalism. Personal pride should already dictate that but it appears within the football world there is too much 'F*** You' money and lavish lifestyle living within too many of the 'pro's nowadays.

 

[JasonM88]

51 minutes ago, stokes7 said:

Apparently the club are aware of these comments and it's not true it's been reported to the club

The club probably are aware as some fairly important people are said to read this forum. 

[Up The City!]

2 hours ago, stokes7 said:

Apparently the club are aware of these comments and it's not true it's been reported to the club

I'd love to see the club call posters on here and on Fb out who have posted unhelpful made up crap.

[WhistleHappy]

2 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

I'd love to see the club call posters on here and on Fb out who have posted unhelpful made up crap.

If LJ is anything like his old man there will quite a line up in the corridor outside his office waiting to be called in to see the head sometime soon...  just ask Robbored.  

[Up The City!]

3 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

If LJ is anything like his old man there will quite a line up in the corridor outside his office waiting to be called in to see the head sometime soon...  just ask Robbored.  

I was thinking of this when I posted that. 

 

[chinapig]

10 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

No it shouldn't matter if their issue is valid whether it comes from your most or least experienced employee. Their should be a clear process where the complaint can be dealt with. Hierarchal systems that are nit open to any form of questioning or challenge are the ones most likely to eventually fail. Sometimes sooner rather than later as a disaster ensues.

It takes a good manager to recognise appropriate concerns and also when they need to act or when they as the manager are in the wrong and back down gracefully. Remember you learn more from listening than talking!

Needless to say I was teasing re the title of the thread - though there is a serious point as to why we should assume the players are in the right because they are highly paid - but I agree with your general point.

However football managers are in a weaker position than the rest of us in that players have the ultimate power. It may appear the manager has authority but that can be sabotaged by player power. If an owner gives in to it once he is a hostage to fortune.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, petehinton said:

Heard much of the same for a while. Flinty isn't all that happy too. 

To echo what's been said, a side with Gary O'Neil in CM, Lee Tomlin in CAM, Flint and Maggers CB, and Tammy Abraham upfront, isn't near the bottom 3 if managed correctly. 

But not so unhappy that he won't sign a new contract last month.

[RUSSEL85]

3 minutes ago, 29AR said:

But not so unhappy that he won't sign a new contract last month.

Contracts mean nothing these days. It just helps the club raise more funds when the player is sold. "cough, cough, Payet" 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Contracts mean nothing these days. It just helps the club raise more funds when the player is sold. "cough, cough, Payet" 

Indeed - I remember Darren Barnard.

This situation hardly screams of showing discontent in a manager though does it. If change was so vital to the dressing room more likely he'd say "not right now, not sure I can work with this bloke" to force the issue, knowing he's quite the talisman.

As for Payet that's quite a different case. Shows how flimsy a contract can be, but we are 1 month down the line of his and he signed it on the eve of a window. That extra year does not inflate his transfer fee given he had a long term deal before.

[stokes7]

So has anyone been contacted by the club yet in regards to this :laugh:

[Dollymarie]

For the record, as far as I'm aware, we've had no official complaints from the football club. I can't remember the last time they asked us to remove anything, probably was when the away shirt was leaked. 

[djb6162]

14 hours ago, Chivs said:

Oh dear god. I do despair sometimes.  Reid isn't fit to tie Tomlin's shoelaces.  I'd crawl naked over broken glass to watch Tomlin do keepie-uppies.  I wouldn't cross the road to watch Reid play (why would I)?

I'm not saying Tomlin is the Messiah but when God picks his 5-a-side he looks for Lee first.

Tomlin doesn't know how to "not play".  He's a kid, amazed that someone is paying him to do what he enjoys most.  He just wants to play and win.

Tomlin hasn't played well for a while.  Then again, name me another player who has played well?  Tammy maybe (another kid amazed) but no-one else...

your despair is shared by me in equal measures but perhaps not for the same reason.

i really could not care less how impressive Tomlin might be on keepie uppies, or indeed how much more gifted he may or may not me than Bobby.

The reality of the situation is very clear to all but those in self denial.

You cannot in any field of employment physically or otherwise threaten your line manger with violence and expletives, but to do so and so publicly and in the presence of your colleagues and hundreds of others in earshot, is unforgivable and he will pay the price for it, a price he has already by the way accepted without too much regret i will add.

For that part i will at least give him some credit, but he and he alone has made himself untenable for the fight ahead.

Others have mentioned on here that teams like preston, who have spent so much less and taken a very recent similar journey as BC, are adapting so much better to the championship.

Does that not suggest that the most gifted players and those who excel at circus tricks are no match for less talented players who given the chance would truly give all for the badge.

I for my own reasons am no supporter of the Johnsons (father or son) and i have experience of both by the way, however a battle is a battle and  what the club needs least of all right now is overpaid egocentric and over-rated individuals.

[Tears in rain]

Anyone get chance to read the press conference yet does hint towards there being no bad relationships with players... there was another one somewhere as well.

[BRISTOL86]

If LJ is such an awful man manager, and this was the case last season also, then why did Tomlin come back?

Not saying it's not true but seems odd. 

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

If LJ is such an awful man manager, and this was the case last season also, then why did Tomlin come back?

Not saying it's not true but seems odd. 

They obviously got on fine last season. I think the loan arrangement worked perfectly for us and Tomlin at the time but unfortunately there was always a reason why we were getting a player who in terms of natural ability would usually be out of our reach. That reason is Lee Tomlin is a ******* liability. When things are going great he's fine, but the minute he doesn't get his own way he thinks he's bigger than the club and kicks off as illustrated by @djb6162 above.

Unfortunately the majority of football managers carry an arrogance that they can be the ones to get the best out of troubled players. Eddie Howe, one of the brightest managerial talents in English football, obviously tried and failed and now LJ has received a harsh lesson that sometimes players like Tomlin despite their great ability are best off avoided altogether in the interests of the team.

Tomlin, along with GON and Pack are saboteurs. The manager/club either seeks to engage with them and heal rifts if possible but if this is not possible as certainly seems the case with Tomlin at least, then it is only a matter of time before they will be shown the door for the good of the football club.

[stokes7]

43 minutes ago, MattRSp95 said:

Anyone get chance to read the press conference yet does hint towards there being no bad relationships with players... there was another one somewhere as well.

This has definitely been posted because of the rumours too much of a coincidence 

[Ska Junkie]

If there is any truth in the rumours about GON, LT, SG falling out with LJ hence not playing then it's a big issue for me. 

LJ is paid to do the best for the football club, not add personal issues into the equation. If LT, GON, SG etc were dropped because LJ has had a bit of a row with them then he's NOT doing the right thing by the club but doing things for personal reasons. That weakens the team IMHO. If the reason LT was dropped on Saturday is because he had a tiff with LJ then that's absolutely crap management. Having LT in the side would have strengthened it without doubt.

Do the best by the club LJ, not by yourself. If you're doing things for football reasons, then fair enough but if it's for personal reasons (ie you're sulking), I suggest this job is too big for you.

Really, really poor If there is any truth in this.

[Tears in rain]

Just now, stokes7 said:

This has definitely been posted because of the rumours too much of a coincidence 

This was my thought as well. Just seemed like whoever asked the question had caught on, and to be fair even if they haven't after the poor run we are on people  would start asking questions like this. 

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, MattRSp95 said:

This was my thought as well. Just seemed like whoever asked the question had caught on, and to be fair even if they haven't after the poor run we are on people  would start asking questions like this. 

I don't think there's been a poor run anywhere at any club at any time that hasn't come bundled with rumours of backroom arguments and dissension. 

Twas ever thus.

Until I hear it from a source I trust I'll treat these stories as just that: rumours.

[spudski]

I'm just surprised it's taken this long to actually come out on the forum. It's been going around for weeks now.

I've heard it got very volatile at one point. A 'clear the air' meeting was called, and MA was used as a 'referee'.

At least it shows the players care...if they were just sat back and taking a wage and going through the motions, I'd have more concern.

All alleged of course ;-)

[Kid in the Riot]

13 minutes ago, 8menhadadream said:

If there is any truth in the rumours about GON, LT, SG falling out with LJ hence not playing then it's a big issue for me. 

LJ is paid to do the best for the football club, not add personal issues into the equation. If LT, GON, SG etc were dropped because LJ has had a bit of a row with them then he's NOT doing the right thing by the club but doing things for personal reasons. That weakens the team IMHO. If the reason LT was dropped on Saturday is because he had a tiff with LJ then that's absolutely crap management. Having LT in the side would have strengthened it without doubt.

Do the best by the club LJ, not by yourself. If you're doing things for football reasons, then fair enough but if it's for personal reasons (ie you're sulking), I suggest this job is too big for you.

Really, really poor If there is any truth in this.

Read post 229, para 4. It may assist you in your judgement of who is not doing best by the club. It may not, but hey it's worth a try...

[Fordy62]

Is also also too much of a coincidence that LJ described GON as having a good pair of lungs on him?

subtle & clever. 

[Lympsham Red]

In LJ's pre-match interview for the Fleetwood replay, he says that "When we turn this corner, we'll come out of it stronger, because we'll find out who can handle the pressure"... this to me could be inferred as an indirect shot at those players he is alleged to have fallen out with, saying that they're only angry because they're not up to the pressure of football at this level. Either way, this is quite a poorly thought-out comment to make as a manager, as he's implying that there are players amongst the squad who aren't up to it, and can you imagine how that'll make the players feel when they see this interview? They're certainly not going to be happy with their manager suggesting that there are a few who can't handle it and so are the reason we're losing. Poor choice of words, which only increases my belief that LJ's man-management skills and ability at maintaining squad harmony are questionable at best.

In addition to this, the following tweet reeks of an attack on certain players within the camp:

I mean, come on, could he get any more provocative towards the players? When they read this, they're going to feel pretty damn wound up about how their manager is referring to them and their personalities and mental qualities. It's just not suitable for a manager to speak about his players in public like this.

[spudski]

12 minutes ago, Lympsham Red said:

In LJ's pre-match interview for the Fleetwood replay, he says that "When we turn this corner, we'll come out of it stronger, because we'll find out who can handle the pressure"... this to me could be inferred as an indirect shot at those players he is alleged to have fallen out with, saying that they're only angry because they're not up to the pressure of football at this level. Either way, this is quite a poorly thought-out comment to make as a manager, as he's implying that there are players amongst the squad who aren't up to it, and can you imagine how that'll make the players feel when they see this interview? They're certainly not going to be happy with their manager suggesting that there are a few who can't handle it and so are the reason we're losing. Poor choice of words, which only increases my belief that LJ's man-management skills and ability at maintaining squad harmony are questionable at best.

In addition to this, the following tweet reeks of an attack on certain players within the camp:

I mean, come on, could he get any more provocative towards the players? When they read this, they're going to feel pretty damn wound up about how their manager is referring to them and their personalities and mental qualities. It's just not suitable for a manager to speak about his players in public like this.

Good...LJ gets far too much stick for our position right now, some of these players need to step up to the challenge. Buck stops at his door...but the players need to take responsibility as well.

[Ska Junkie]

53 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Read post 229, para 4. It may assist you in your judgement of who is not doing best by the club. It may not, but hey it's worth a try...

Fair enough KITR but I stand by my point that the professional thing to do is surely to pick your strongest available side regardless of personal issues?

We all probably work with people we may not get along with particularly well but we still try to put personal differences aside and do the best we can for our employer don't we? If it's the players at fault, they need a rocket but I would guess that's down to our head coach.

On my original post, I did say IF there's truth in it, I don't know but there's seemingly something wrong.