The irony of SteveL paying two managers

[NickJ]

Steve, unless Steve was paid off in full at the time, which I presume he wasn't, you are currently paying two managers.

Your namesake inherited a dire situation worse even than the current one, created by a duff (SOD) manager, and we all know what he (Steve) did, very quickly.

Proud to say I was one of the few that gave him (Steve) a chance. As I understand, it was Keith's recommendation; top marks to him.

Then, if certain stories are to be believed, the rug was pulled from under Steve. Keith lost his nerve, was persuaded he was no longer the right man. He was not liked, he was arrogant, so they say. Maybe Steve, maybe Steve didn't want to be liked, just successful.

I believe that he was unfairly pilloried, for results in late 2015, because of that summer of 2015. Steve, summer 2015 was a massive, massive mistake. The opportunity missed of a manager on a roll who knew what he was doing.

Your current man was always a nonsense appointment, in my opinion. Said it on here the very day he was appointed.

Lee is a thinker, a theorist. He is articulate, intelligent, he asks lots of questions, he seeks advice and opinions. He even accepts input on his team from an unlikely source, so I hear. He is in his dream job.

But he is not a leader. He is not big enough (I don't mean physical size) for such a job. He does not have the stature, the aura, the presence.

Your namesake had all that. And he knew how to create a tight knit team that wanted (dared not?) to play for him and each other. He didn't need or want to sign 17 players. Just two or three of quality who would improve what was by definition a decent team. Now look at us. Are we a decent team on the pitch? Do we look like a team? Where is the cohesion, the continuity, the strategy, the plan. Where is the intensity, the tempo that we played with under Steve. I don't see any of that any more.

Oh, and BTW, all that talk about Steve not playing the youngsters, of not filling the bench, with the academy. Remind me somebody, how many of the academy has Lee introduced this season?

Bring Steve back before it's too late............

..................I know that will not will not happen, but IF it was the only other option, would it be so ridiculous?

Because at this moment in time, given the track record of the two managers currently being paid, especially relative to the resources given, there is no doubt in my mind who would be the better bet.

Only problem is, I am fairly certain he wouldn't come back easily.

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Steve, unless Steve was paid off in full at the time, which I presume he wasn't, you are currently paying two managers.

Your namesake inherited a dire situation worse even than the current one, created by a duff (SOD) manager, and we all know what he (Steve) did, very quickly.

Proud to say I was one of the few that gave him (Steve) a chance. As I understand, it was Keith's recommendation; top marks to him.

Then, if certain stories are to be believed, the rug was pulled from under Steve. Keith lost his nerve, was persuaded he was no longer the right man. He was not liked, he was arrogant, so they say. Maybe Steve, maybe Steve didn't want to be liked, just successful.

I believe that he was unfairly pilloried, for results in late 2015, because of that summer of 2015. Steve, summer 2015 was a massive, massive mistake. The opportunity missed of a manager on a roll who knew what he was doing.

Your current man was always a nonsense appointment, in my opinion. Said it on here the very day he was appointed.

Lee is a thinker, a theorist. He is articulate, intelligent, he asks lots of questions, he seeks advice and opinions. He even accepts input on his team from an unlikely source, so I hear. He is in his dream job.

But he is not a leader. He is not big enough (I don't mean physical size) for such a job. He does not have the stature, the aura, the presence.

Your namesake had all that. And he knew how to create a tight knit team that wanted (dared not?) to play for him and each other. He didn't need or want to sign 17 players. Just two or three of quality who would improve what was by definition a decent team. Now look at us. Are we a decent team on the pitch? Do we look like a team? Where is the cohesion, the continuity, the strategy, the plan. Where is the intensity, the tempo that we played with under Steve. I don't see any of that any more.

Oh, and BTW, all that talk about Steve not playing the youngsters, of not filling the bench, with the academy. Remind me somebody, how many of the academy has Lee introduced this season?

Bring Steve back before it's too late............

..................I know that will not will not happen, but IF it was the only other option, would it be so ridiculous?

Because at this moment in time, given the track record of the two managers currently being paid, especially relative to the resources given, there is no doubt in my mind who would be the better bet.

Only problem is, I am fairly certain he wouldn't come back easily.

Wow

[mixer13]

Someone's got some time on there hands  ,letting the roast dinner go down :laugh: 

[Lack of Action Man]

No more Natch for you.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

8 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Steve, unless Steve was paid off in full at the time, which I presume he wasn't, you are currently paying two managers.

Your namesake inherited a dire situation worse even than the current one, created by a duff (SOD) manager, and we all know what he (Steve) did, very quickly.

Proud to say I was one of the few that gave him (Steve) a chance. As I understand, it was Keith's recommendation; top marks to him.

Then, if certain stories are to be believed, the rug was pulled from under Steve. Keith lost his nerve, was persuaded he was no longer the right man. He was not liked, he was arrogant, so they say. Maybe Steve, maybe Steve didn't want to be liked, just successful.

I believe that he was unfairly pilloried, for results in late 2015, because of that summer of 2015. Steve, summer 2015 was a massive, massive mistake. The opportunity missed of a manager on a roll who knew what he was doing.

Your current man was always a nonsense appointment, in my opinion. Said it on here the very day he was appointed.

Lee is a thinker, a theorist. He is articulate, intelligent, he asks lots of questions, he seeks advice and opinions. He even accepts input on his team from an unlikely source, so I hear. He is in his dream job.

But he is not a leader. He is not big enough (I don't mean physical size) for such a job. He does not have the stature, the aura, the presence.

Your namesake had all that. And he knew how to create a tight knit team that wanted (dared not?) to play for him and each other. He didn't need or want to sign 17 players. Just two or three of quality who would improve what was by definition a decent team. Now look at us. Are we a decent team on the pitch? Do we look like a team? Where is the cohesion, the continuity, the strategy, the plan. Where is the intensity, the tempo that we played with under Steve. I don't see any of that any more.

Oh, and BTW, all that talk about Steve not playing the youngsters, of not filling the bench, with the academy. Remind me somebody, how many of the academy has Lee introduced this season?

Bring Steve back before it's too late............

..................I know that will not will not happen, but IF it was the only other option, would it be so ridiculous?

Because at this moment in time, given the track record of the two managers currently being paid, especially relative to the resources given, there is no doubt in my mind who would be the better bet.

Only problem is, I am fairly certain he wouldn't come back easily.

Yes and absolutely hilarious.... congratulations for winning the internet for a day. 

If LJ goes, he goes. Take off your SC tinted spectacles for 2 seconds and see that regardless of who was at fault for the Summer of 2015, SC did not help himself with results on the pitch whatsoever with his rigidity and every other flaw. At this level, he had a 15% record with us... Remind of why he named 6 on the bench? Or why played Wilbs to a point of ineffectiveness? There so many things he did wrong

Good lower league manager and thats pretty much, Unfairly sacked? 

[NickJ]

12 minutes ago, mixer13 said:

Someone's got some time on there hands  ,letting the roast dinner go down

 

8 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

No more Natch for you.

Ha ha but no roast dinner and no Natch yet today!!!!

 

3 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Yes and absolutely hilarious.... congratulations for winning the internet for a day. 

If LJ goes, he goes. Take off your SC tinted spectacles for 2 seconds and see that regardless of who was at fault for the Summer of 2015, SC did not help himself with results on the pitch whatsoever with his rigidity and every other flaw. At this level, he had a 15% record with us... Remind of why he named 6 on the bench? Or why played Wilbs to a point of ineffectiveness? There so many things he did wrong

Good lower league manager and thats pretty much, Unfairly sacked? 

"Hilarious".

That was my one word post on here the day LJ was appointed. Seriously.

The flaw in your put down is I do have a track record in backing the right horse. 

[Lack of Action Man]

Just now, NickJ said:

no Natch yet today!

Then I immediately suggest you get a Natch or 12 in you before you post anything else!

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Just now, NickJ said:

 

Ha ha but no roast dinner and no Natch yet today!!!!

 

"Hilarious".

That was my one word post on here the day LJ was appointed. Seriously.

The flaw in your put down is I do have a track record in backing the right horse. 

Yes ok... SC 15% win record, LJ 37% even with the horrendous run. 

Regardless if LJ isn't upto it or out of his depth he's done a darn sight better at this level at this club than Cotterill. At least he utilises his squad for one... plus tight knit group? Looked anything but that towards the end of his tenure. Even Pembo alluded to SC's rigidity and stubborness in failing to change his ways to get results.

And how have you backed the right 'horse'? He did a good job for a season and is respected for that and then was out of his depth last, jeopardising the clubs chances of survival with his rigidity... Maybe we should bring Gary Johnson or Keith Millen who did better jobs than him at this level, heck even Del and SOD had better win percentages than SC in the Championship

 

[CotswoldRed]

Alcohol is a terrible thing sometimes. 

[Roger Red Hat]

3 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Alcohol is a terrible thing sometimes. 

......but only sometimes..

[Fordy62]

21 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Yes ok... SC 15% win record, LJ 37% even with the horrendous run. 

Regardless if LJ isn't upto it or out of his depth he's done a darn sight better at this level at this club than Cotterill. At least he utilises his squad for one... plus tight knit group? Looked anything but that towards the end of his tenure. Even Pembo alluded to SC's rigidity and stubborness in failing to change his ways to get results.

And how have you backed the right 'horse'? He did a good job for a season and is respected for that and then was out of his depth last, jeopardising the clubs chances of survival with his rigidity... Maybe we should bring Gary Johnson or Keith Millen who did better jobs than him at this level, heck even Del and SOD had better win percentages than SC in the Championship

 

That's just not true Rob.

He's spent what; 15-20m and got us in free fall, in every real danger of relegation. And thats not even taking into account the fact that he's borrowed a striker who's worth arguably 30m - imagine if we didn't have Tammy - we'd be cut adrift of Rotherham! Coterill had none of this and we'll never know on a level playing field how Cotts would have done with such backing. But I assure you, he wouldn't have done any worse.

I don't think that LJ will be sacked, but were he to be sacked this evening, he'll go down as the biggest waster ever to be in charge of our club... And if you care to disagree, just look at the embarrassment of riches in the squad... he can't even buy a draw!

[shelts]

37 minutes ago, NickJ said:

 

Ha ha but no roast dinner and no Natch yet today!!!!

 

"Hilarious".

That was my one word post on here the day LJ was appointed. Seriously.

The flaw in your put down is I do have a track record in backing the right horse. 

Horses?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

That's just not true Rob.

He's spent what; 15-20m and got us in free fall, in every real danger of relegation. And thats not even taking into account the fact that he's borrowed a striker who's worth arguably 30m - imagine if we didn't have Tammy - we'd be cut adrift of Rotherham! Coterill had none of this and we'll never know on a level playing field how Cotts would have done with such backing. But I assure you, he wouldn't have done any worse.

I don't think that LJ will be sacked, but were he to be sacked this evening, he'll go down as the biggest waster ever to be in charge of our club... And if you care to disagree, just look at the embarrassment of riches in the squad... he can't even buy a draw!

You can't 'assure' on anything because you simply don't know

And we'll never know what would happen if we didn't have Tammy 

Like Rotherham we were cut adrift, so why was it Pembo with basically with the same squad rectified the situation with 2 wins and 3 clean sheets in his 4 league games?

Like I said if LJ goes, then he goes but to be serious about bringing back Cotterill is just utter nonsense

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

I think you got that wrong, SC win record was 46% even with that terrible run. I know you meant in the Championship but you cannot just eliminate history . Why not take SC last 15 games before he was sacked. Out of 45 points  a meagre return of 14 points. Lee J during the last 15 games and 45 potential points ? Yes 7 points. Even worse despite spending 15million. So not sure if LJ really has done that much better. Both, for different reasons were and are lacking. 

I'm talking Championship level only in comparison to LJ who has only managed us at this level...

The other part you haven't mentioned is that Cotterill did not help himself in regards to matters on the pitch.

[Robin Ashton]

 

Quote

Remind of why he named 6 on the bench?

What's the difference between having a bench of 6 subs; and a full bench with 7 subs, one of which you never use?

[Fordy62]

Just now, Emperor Palpatine said:

You can't 'assure' on anything because you simply don't know

And we'll never know what would happen if we didn't have Tammy 

Like Rotherham we were cut adrift, so why was it Pembo with basically with the same squad rectified the situation with 2 wins and 3 clean sheets in his 4 league games?

Like I said if LJ goes, then he goes but to be serious about bringing back Cotterill is just utter nonsense

I agree. It is nonsense. Far too many bridges have been burnt. 

But I can assure you this...

LJ is 5(?) points better off than Cotts at this point in the season, having spent 20m, borrowed a 30m striker & probably doubled/tripled the wage bill. 

You cannot stand by the fact that he's done a better job. 

[Chairman Mao]

Bring Cotterill back? Haha, no.

3-5-2, setting team up for failure vs. Derby, no subs until 90th min, failure to attract anyone to the club (Kodjia aside), being thrashed left and right, capitulating in the last minute to awful sides (the last point would sound familiar to LJ...). 

Guy was not up to it and when he lost it after PNE you knew his time was up. 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

3 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I agree. It is nonsense. Far too many bridges have been burnt. 

But I can assure you this...

LJ is 5(?) points better off than Cotts at this point in the season, having spent 20m, borrowed a 30m striker & probably doubled/tripled the wage bill. 

You cannot stand by the fact that he's done a better job. 

I'm saying his record over the time he has been managing in the Championship for this club, LJ did a great job last season, he consolidated the clubs position in this league when it was threatened... yes he has spent alot of money but I don't think its 20M, more likely to be about 12. Tammys valuation maybe 30M now but I would argue that it was nowhere near that at the start of the season... 

 

[GrahamC]

I don't think it would be wise for one minute for him to return and that despite the fact I am a big fan of Cotterill.

However those trying to claim that LJ is somehow doing any better than him are simply comparing apples with oranges.

For the first few months of last season Cotterill's subs bench usually included Max O'Leary, El-Abd, Reid, Waggy, Burns and Agard, no £8m worth of expenditure on that bench...

Despite this we were just as competitive as this season in many (not all) games and as others have pointed out, he spent about £12m less.

Final point, it was the huge profit that we made on Cotterill's only big money signing that actually funded LJ's summer spending..

[Roger Red Hat]

43 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

I'm saying his record over the time he has been managing in the Championship for this club, LJ did a great job last season, he consolidated the clubs position in this league when it was threatened... yes he has spent alot of money but I don't think its 20M, more likely to be about 12. Tammys valuation maybe 30M now but I would argue that it was nowhere near that at the start of the season... 

 

Interesting you mention Tammy. He wouldn't have been here if SC was still at the helm.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

7 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Interesting you mention Tammy. He wouldn't have been here if SC was still at the helm.

Well he wouldn't have utilised him even if he was because he was a loanee 

[Fordy62]

22 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I don't think it would be wise for one minute for him to return and that despite the fact I am a big fan of Cotterill.

However those trying to claim that LJ is somehow doing any better than him are simply comparing apples with oranges.

For the first few months of last season Cotterill's subs bench usually included Max O'Leary, El-Abd, Reid, Waggy, Burns and Agard, no £8m worth of expenditure on that bench...

Despite this we were just as competitive as this season in many (not all) games and as others have pointed out, he spent about £12m less.

Final point, it was the huge profit that we made on Cotterill's only big money signing that actually funded LJ's summer spending..

Can I get in before someone points out that Cotts didn't even want Kodjia? He was too busy taking bungs, having sex with hookers on SL's desk, stealing from blind kids and being semi addicted to crack cocaine according to some to want any new players. 

[Red Exile]

A splendidly mischievous OP. Returning to Cotts wouldn't be my choice, or I imagine the club's...but that would be a conversation worth eavesdropping on!

[Kid in the Riot]

56 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I agree. It is nonsense. Far too many bridges have been burnt. 

But I can assure you this...

LJ is 5(?) points better off than Cotts at this point in the season, having spent 20m, borrowed a 30m striker & probably doubled/tripled the wage bill. 

You cannot stand by the fact that he's done a better job. 

LJ also lost our best player and £14m worth of striker on deadline day and he was hugely influential in Tammy signing. You can't say 'if we didn't have Tammy' when LJ was intrumental in signing the bloke!

[Fordy62]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

LJ also lost our best player and £14m worth of striker on deadline day and he was hugely influential in Tammy signing. You can't say 'if we didn't have Tammy' when LJ was intrumental in signing the bloke!

It still stands though doesn't it that LJ has had an embarrassment of backing and has achieved no more this season than Cotts did last season. Other than doubling/trebling the wages. 

And it's a bloody good job he was instrumental in signing Tammy, it's about all he has done. Imagine if he hadn't. 

[shelts]

7 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Can I get in before someone points out that Cotts didn't even want Kodjia? He was too busy taking bungs, having sex with hookers on SL's desk, stealing from blind kids and being semi addicted to crack cocaine according to some to want any new players. 

Someone call the police ...

[shelts]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It still stands though doesn't it that LJ has had an embarrassment of backing and has achieved no more this season than Cotts did last season. Other than doubling/trebling the wages. 

And it's a bloody good job he was instrumental in signing Tammy, it's about all he has done. Imagine if he hadn't. 

Why was Cotts not backed?

[Nomad]

1 minute ago, shelts said:

Why was Cotts not backed?

Probably because he was an @rse who liked to play the martyr.

[Kid in the Riot]

4 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It still stands though doesn't it that LJ has had an embarrassment of backing and has achieved no more this season than Cotts did last season. Other than doubling/trebling the wages. 

And it's a bloody good job he was instrumental in signing Tammy, it's about all he has done. Imagine if he hadn't. 

LJ has been backed well because we are in a much better place to finance signings/wages due to the ground redevelopment. Transfer fees have also gone mad of late, as we saw with the Kodjia deal and so the fees of £1-3 million that we have been paying have to be put into context.  That said, I don't dispute he has been backed well. Just like SC received terrific backing in the transfer market prior to the promotion season. 

 

[shelts]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

LJ has been backed well because we are in a much better place to finance signings/wages due to the ground redevelopment. Transfer fees have also gone mad of late, as we saw with the Kodjia deal and so the fees of £1-3 million that we have been paying have to be put into context.  That said, I don't dispute he has been backed well. Just like SC received terrific backing in the transfer market prior to the promotion season. 

 

It's interesting that he wasn't backed after winning promotion and a cup albeit with the highest wage bill in the league. All the momentum was lost in the summer. Answers on a postcard.