BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, spudski said: Yes mate...it's his top 10 thoughts for leadership from his book. I didn't know that - but reading it you could see him saying them !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Agree with all that PF and I fully endorse the use of science and technology where it can help I just wonder about the balance of the various aspects and impact on a coaches time and his mental energy As a simple example , does the analysis impact on time he has with players , even if it means he has less time to mix with players away from the training pitch etc (I'm not suggesting it does but it's the sort of thing that could throw the %2 gains in reverse True, would love to get an insight into how it really is at the club. Would be very interesting to see what happens at training and how the team are spoken to in the dressing room. It's partly why i've always liked sitting nearish the home dugout in the Williams (now Lansdown) - I enjoyed seeing how the management interacted with players on the pitch - was particularly good with Cotterill as you could hear every word and of course every single expletive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I didn't know that - but reading it you could see him saying them !!! I think his point number 8 would probably be LJ's hardest thing to over come in the squad with some players. As it is with any manager in any walk of life, who is younger and has people under him who have achieved more or similar in age. 1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said: True, would love to get an insight into how it really is at the club. Would be very interesting to see what happens at training and how the team are spoken to in the dressing room. It's partly why i've always liked sitting nearish the home dugout in the Williams (now Lansdown) - I enjoyed seeing how the management interacted with players on the pitch - was particularly good with Cotterill as you could hear every word and of course every single expletive! I'd definitely ban mobile phones from all players and those not in the squad who are watching on. Amount of times I've seen them looking at their phones instead of the game...not Professional imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednotblue Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Drones etc are only worth while if you know how to interpret the information. Keeping a settled side is very important as players get used to each other and 'know' where each other are. IMHO not having a settled midfield has contributed to our current position. How many times have we fielded the same midfield consecutively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: True, would love to get an insight into how it really is at the club. Would be very interesting to see what happens at training and how the team are spoken to in the dressing room. It's partly why i've always liked sitting nearish the home dugout in the Williams (now Lansdown) - I enjoyed seeing how the management interacted with players on the pitch - was particularly good with Cotterill as you could hear every word and of course every single expletive! I could tell you what it was like under Jordan / Lumsden / Smith era to some degree but hardly representative of the modern day set up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engvall's Splinter Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 I don't reckon Taylor will start. Did somebody suggest resting Tammy in such a game too? Crikey. Would certainly look to start Cotterill. Keep the flat back four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, spudski said: I think his point number 8 would probably be LJ's hardest thing to over come in the squad with some players. As it is with any manager in any walk of life, who is younger and has people under him who have achieved more or similar in age. Totally Spud - His age and unfortunately even his stature (Its human nature - I hope I'm not upsetting anyone with this observation) puts him at a tough starting point - Must be easy to try and intentionally 'impose yourself' if you're not careful I also think his 'passion' probably gets the better of him at times too !!! I'd definitely ban mobile phones from all players and those not in the squad who are watching on. Amount of times I've seen them looking at their phones instead of the game...not Professional imo. Agree - One of Pep and Arsne Wengers big hates I believe - I'd use young players enthusiasm for technology by 'involving them' in analysis , think a lot would enjoy using the technology and their footballing brains and football education should be accelerated without them necessarily realising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 442 for me: Giefer Little Flint Wright Golbourne Cotts Hegeler Tomlin COD Tammy Taylor Rotherham are shit. Attack them from the off and put the game to bed early. Oh to dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Totally agree with your points mate. Good ideas too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, spudski said: I'd definitely ban mobile phones from all players and those not in the squad who are watching on. Amount of times I've seen them looking at their phones instead of the game...not Professional imo. Agree, was surprised at the amount of young players messing about on snapchat etc. They're there to learn and it's part of their job - suggest Jamie Mac confiscates all phones before the young players are watching the first team! I like Guardiola's idea of removing phone signal in the home dressing room/training ground changing room. 10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: I could tell you what it was like under Jordan / Lumsden / Smith era to some degree but hardly representative of the modern day set up Sadly all of those managers are before my time of watching us! I heard bits and pieces about GJ - especially around the time of the Stewart bustup.. but nothing in recent years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Just now, Phileas Fogg said: Agree, was surprised at the amount of young players messing about on snapchat etc. They're there to learn and it's part of their job - suggest Jamie Mac confiscates all phones before the young players are watching the first team! I like Guardiola's idea of removing phone signal in the home dressing room/training ground changing room. Sadly all of those managers are before my time of watching us! I heard bits and pieces about GJ - especially around the time of the Stewart bustup.. but nothing in recent years. Joe Jordan was an interesting one to watch - Hardly said a word , (And when he did speak ihe was impossible to understand) very quiet but eyes were everywhere - A very intelligent man and totally different from his on pitch persona !!! He had that presence , Players just wouldn't cross him , or certainly wouldn't get caught - he didn't mess about with Robbie Turner when he crossed the line ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, spudski said: Totally agree with your points mate. Good ideas too. Don't think it's done enough Spud When I was schoolboy coaching , they had invites to games and we would set them little 'projects' If they were a centre half we would ask them to watch Our centre halfs and write a small piece on what they saw , maybe ask them to,focus on what the centre half did at set pieces If they were a forward , watch SuperBob , count how many times does he get in the box , does he go near post Or far post etc Nothing too heavy , to spoil their enjoyment , just something to direct their focus on what was relevant to them and take something out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderbeans Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 I would say that even though 3-5-2 isn't quite work ATM as it needs work, it is the formation that best suits our squad in relation to their best roles. The wing back positions are what are proving to be our weakness currently as they need protection when in advanced positions on the counter. That is where the two cm should step in. Maybe it is just a case of working out team cohesion for that formation. as much as 4-4-1-1 may allow us to be more solid at the back, we still conceded two and it also means we have to drop one or two key players. So sacrificing a couple for the same outcome doesn't make sense. if we stick with the 3-5-2, stick with a starting lineup, work on team cohesion and roles and game management, we can turn it around and make the formation successful whilst picking up points. Unfortunately it takes time of which we don't have, but I'm thinking put the hard work in now for next season so we can hit the ground running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Agree, was surprised at the amount of young players messing about on snapchat etc. They're there to learn and it's part of their job - suggest Jamie Mac confiscates all phones before the young players are watching the first team! I like Guardiola's idea of removing phone signal in the home dressing room/training ground changing room. Sadly all of those managers are before my time of watching us! I heard bits and pieces about GJ - especially around the time of the Stewart bustup.. but nothing in recent years. I watched this video the other day, and it is probably the best 15 minutes of footage I've ever seen, that explains very eloquently the understanding needed for the 'millenials'. It can be related to our footballers...with the management of them, and getting more out of them, as they have come from a generation where 'instant success' comes in all forms, without having to put the effort in. If there was one video I could recommend everyone to watch, it would be this one. Seeing the faces in the audience go from laughter, to 'OMG this is us'...speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonRobin Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 For me, a lot depends on the fitness of some of the squad...Tomlin has been ill and put a shift in last night. Hope he is fit to start again but he may need to be an impact sub. I'd love to see Matthews back and playing as he did last year...if my memory is correct he is training again. With his ability and Cotts in front I think that could be an excellent pairing down the right. A number of the fans have been calling for two up top and throwing to fit a Tomlin or Reid type player in too we'd need to go with either 3-5-2 or something like this below Giefer Matthews Flint Wright Magnusson Hegeler Cotterill Bryan Tomlin Abraham Djuric Not sure if I'd favour going to 3-5-2 at the moment...it puts a lot more pressure on the areas where we are weakest (full backs) and I don't think we have the strength and depth to replace them from the bench. So, I'd rather see something like the formation above; the greater strain is on midfield and this is an area where we have numerous options...we could easily make numerous substitutions once the tiredness sets in and not weaken the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Don't think it's done enough Spud When I was schoolboy coaching , they had invites to games and we would set them little 'projects' If they were a centre half we would ask them to watch Our centre halfs and write a small piece on what they saw , maybe ask them to,focus on what the centre half did at set pieces If they were a forward , watch SuperBob , count how many times does he get in the box , does he go near post Or far post etc Nothing too heavy , to spoil their enjoyment , just something to direct their focus on what was relevant to them and take something out of it I think they've got them doing similar now...or it seems that. way. Every time we lose the ball in midfield they swipe to the left, and every time we string three passes together, they swipe to the right....at least that's what I think they are doing ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, WestonRobin said: For me, a lot depends on the fitness of some of the squad...Tomlin has been ill and put a shift in last night. Hope he is fit to start again but he may need to be an impact sub. I'd love to see Matthews back and playing as he did last year...if my memory is correct he is training again. With his ability and Cotts in front I think that could be an excellent pairing down the right. A number of the fans have been calling for two up top and throwing to fit a Tomlin or Reid type player in too we'd need to go with either 3-5-2 or something like this below Giefer Matthews Flint Wright Magnusson Hegeler Cotterill Bryan Tomlin Abraham Djuric Not sure if I'd favour going to 3-5-2 at the moment...it puts a lot more pressure on the areas where we are weakest (full backs) and I don't think we have the strength and depth to replace them from the bench. So, I'd rather see something like the formation above; the greater strain is on midfield and this is an area where we have numerous options...we could easily make numerous substitutions once the tiredness sets in and not weaken the team. I don't think Matthews is ready at all. But if he was and fit and playing to his full ability, then that would be my team as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 As regards Saturday and for the foreseeable I think I'd be utilising 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-1 Id be inclined to play a flat back four, Hegler an AN Other centre of midfield , JB and DC left and right and either LT in behind Tammy or LT & Duric dependent on opposition and game situation Id encourage my two full backs to get forward and ask Hegler to sit as a d/m and drop in alongside or between Our centre halves to form a three , when / if either or even both full backs get forward As always the issue is accommodating LT who I think all would agree is likely to be vital,in our relegation fight If I wanted to play two up,top , especially at home I'd play with a midfield four in a diamond with Hegler at the base and LT at the tip (Edit - as @WestonRobinhas above although I'd tend to stick with what I know in Little and possibly SG at left back although I'd like to,see how Magnusson does there) Away from home I'd be inclined to,persist with 4-4-1-1 with LT in behind Tammy and a midfield partner for Hegler with the option of going 4-4-2 if we need to , either with Tomlin in the diamond or replacing Tomlin if he's blowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, WestonRobin said: Not sure if I'd favour going to 3-5-2 at the moment...it puts a lot more pressure on the areas where we are weakest (full backs) and I don't think we have the strength and depth to replace them from the bench. So, I'd rather see something like the formation above; the greater strain is on midfield and this is an area where we have numerous options...we could easily make numerous substitutions once the tiredness sets in and not weaken the team. I do like the idea of making 'numerous substitutions' - if only that were possible. There have been times when I've wanted to change all eleven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Tomarse said: Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week same 11 but start tomlin in the middle from the start, but if I was to make one change it would be to bring Maggers in at Left Back, I though goldborne looked out of his depth last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonRobin Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: As regards Saturday and for the foreseeable I think I'd be utilising 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-1 Id be inclined to play a flat back four, Hegler an AN Other centre of midfield , JB and DC left and right and either LT in behind Tammy or LT & Duric dependent on opposition and game situation Id encourage my two full backs to get forward and ask Hegler to sit as a d/m and drop in alongside or between Our centre halves to form a three , when / if either or even both full backs get forward As always the issue is accommodating LT who I think all would agree is likely to be vital,in our relegation fight If I wanted to play two up,top , especially at home I'd play with a midfield four in a diamond with Hegler at the base and LT at the tip (Edit - as @WestonRobinhas above although I'd tend to stick with what I know in Little and possibly SG at left back although I'd like to,see how Magnusson does there) Away from home I'd be inclined to,persist with 4-4-1-1 with LT in behind Tammy and a midfield partner for Hegler with the option of going 4-4-2 if we need to , either with Tomlin in the diamond or replacing Tomlin if he's blowing Blimey Bob - where has this confidence come from? You think we'll do ok with 8 outfield players. Thankfully, it's the team who are rock bottom...anyone else and it could be a really, really tricky afternoon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, WestonRobin said: Blimey Bob - where has this confidence come from? You think we'll do ok with 8 outfield players. Thankfully, it's the team who are rock bottom...anyone else and it could be a really, really tricky afternoon!! I didn't finish it !!! Its a new 4-2-1-1-1-1 'Spear' formation !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Forest have used the most players in the championship, 34. Leeds the fewest 23. On 29, we are somewhere in the middle-ish. Take into account 4 of those have been goal keepers (or is it 5?), Ekstrand was a gamble that didn't pay off, long term injury issues with Korey, GON and Matthews means people like Zac have added to that number too. So I don't think you can argue with the tinkering in the numbers of players, but certainly the constant changes in formation and position are questionable. Tomlin out wide. Just no. Byran shifted around left right and everywhere (thought the game passed him by for long periods last night). Brownhill does a job on the left or right, but his best performances have been central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We live in hope Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 hours ago, BigTone said: Agreed, all this scientific crap is all very well but you need a settled side Agreed. I think LJ needs to find a regular 11 with the odd change to freshen things up. Players need time to gel and learn each other in A MATCH DAY ENVIROMENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, We live in hope said: Players need time to gel and learn each other in A MATCH DAY ENVIROMENT Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lager loud Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: As regards Saturday and for the foreseeable I think I'd be utilising 4-4-2 or 4-2-1-1 Id be inclined to play a flat back four, Hegler an AN Other centre of midfield , JB and DC left and right and either LT in behind Tammy or LT & Duric dependent on opposition and game situation Id encourage my two full backs to get forward and ask Hegler to sit as a d/m and drop in alongside or between Our centre halves to form a three , when / if either or even both full backs get forward I'd certainly be looking at a formation like that: I thought we played some of our best stuff for a long time after Tomlin moved into the centre. There were midfield players finding space and making themselves available so that we could work the ball through the middle. For that reason I would want Hegeler free to break forward - not restricted to a holding role: we were at our most dangerous when he was doing that. Tomlin to start for me as long as he carries on playing as he did in the centre last night. He will create plenty of chances for himself and Tammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engvall's Splinter Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Engvall's Splinter Fielding Little Flint Wright Golbourne Cotterill Hegelar O'Neil Bryan Tomlin Abraham Taylor Djuric Magnusson (if fit) Pack Reid Giefer Paterson Keep some consistency with the back four. Giefer looks more shaky than Fielding. Very dubious. Taylor off the bench. Cotterill straight in. Tomlin a run in the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin_unreliant Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Regardless of what the best formation may be to suit our players, my suspicion is that LJ will base ours on whatever he thinks Rotherham will play. If they have 3 in the middle of the park I expect he will change to match it up. Don't like that approach myself but can see it being in his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Can I just go on record and say, that after all these excellent signings this month, with tremendous backing, and barring a glut of injuries again to key players, then if LJ can't turn this round, and we find ourselves floundering by the end of feb, then imo, he'd have to go. I want him and this team to now rise and progress...but after all this January backing, even I could turn this round ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engvall's Splinter Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 1 minute ago, robin_unreliant said: Regardless of what the best formation may be to suit our players, my suspicion is that LJ will base ours on whatever he thinks Rotherham will play. If they have 3 in the middle of the park I expect he will change to match it up. Don't like that approach myself but can see it being in his mind. Probably right. Does this a lot going by his previous team selections, with little joy. Whilst you've got to understand your opponent, switching up your tactics to match up is not the one for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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