Options for Saturday....

[spudski]

So....we've got some exciting new signings in and a draw under our belt to stop the rot. The Relegation battle starts... Our aim has to be to finish mid table and instil confidence for next season.

So many options now. However I still worry about our fullbacks...Little needs help every game...and like yesterday our tracking back, covering at LB costs us goals nearly every game.

Thinking ahead to Rotherham....3 solid defenders, good cover and ability to cross from wide midfield. Decent cover CM and ability to pass.  Creativity in CM. Goals up front. On paper....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Geifer-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------Wright-----------------------------------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners-------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------Brownhill/GoN---------------------------------------Hegeler-------------------------------------------------------------

Cotterhill------------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Bryan

---------------------------------------Tammy------------------------------------------------------------Duric/Taylor-----------------------------------------------

 

[Guest]

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

[Redtucks]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

So....we've got some exciting new signings in and a draw under our belt to stop the rot. The Relegation battle starts... Our aim has to be to finish mid table and instil confidence for next season.

So many options now. However I still worry about our fullbacks...Little needs help every game...and like yesterday our tracking back, covering at LB costs us goals nearly every game.

Thinking ahead to Rotherham....3 solid defenders, good cover and ability to cross from wide midfield. Decent cover CM and ability to pass.  Creativity in CM. Goals up front. On paper....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Geifer-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------Wright-----------------------------------------------Flint-------------------------------------Magners-------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------Brownhill/GoN---------------------------------------Hegeler-------------------------------------------------------------

Cotterhill------------------------------------------------------------------Tomlin-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Bryan

---------------------------------------Tammy------------------------------------------------------------Duric/Taylor-----------------------------------------------

 

Would rather have Thatchers instead of Magners!!!

 

[BigTone]

3 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Agreed, all this scientific crap is all very well but you need a settled side

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, BigTone said:

Agreed, all this scientific crap is all very well but you need a settled side

What do you mean?

I like Spudski's side and on paper that probably is our strongest available side with players playing in their most effective positions. I can understand the argument for keeping the same team as last night though. 

[spudski]

I'm all for a settled side...but counting one game, yesterday as a 'settled' side is pushing it a bit...it's just one game. The reason I set that side up like that, as it covers our weaknesses at fullbacks and gives better strengths across the pitch. And as Foggy said...it's probably our strongest players playing in their most effective positions.

[BigTone]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

 I can understand the argument for keeping the same team as last night though. 

That is my point, however we won't and that is guaranteed and you know it as well as I do.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, BigTone said:

That is my point, however we won't and that is guaranteed and you know it as well as I do.

I meant the 'scientific crap' bit - I expect we will change the side. I'd like to think we would do something similar to what Spudski has said partly as I think it'll get the best out of Tomlin.

Has Cotterill played many games at RWB? I haven't followed him at Birmingham really. I think he could be very good on that side, maybe a bit like what Elliot Bennett was as a RWB/Winger. 

[Numero Uno]

13 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Yep, LJ is like a kid in a bloody sweet shop and look where we find ourselves.

[Super]

Cotts must come in for COD.

[BigTone]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I meant the 'scientific crap' bit -  

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

[Mendip City]

6 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

Exactly AND it focuses on us, our style of play, imposing "us" on "them" rather than negatively picking a team to counteract the opposition and to use some LJ speak, gives us an identity. 

[Mendip City]

2 minutes ago, Mendip City said:

double post 

 

[1960maaan]

I like this team, but I would like to see Bryan's place taken by COD. I know it would weaken us defensively but two genuine wide men on their proper wings , could be exciting. With Duric in the middle with Tammy lots of threat.

But, we live in the real world where teams keep trying to score against us.  I would say start Duric , he needs to be given a decent run , then if we're doing ok bring on Taylor along side him and give Tammy a rest. Long, long time since we've been in that position, and maybe a reason Engvall didn't get more (?) of a chance.

Oh, I meant to say. Gary Owers seemed to talk a lot of sense last night, surprised he's not manager/coach at a League club. Always liked him.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

I see, I don't think changing the team is down to 'scientific crap' it's just something he does - rightly or wrongly.

As for the drones and modern analysis methods, I know you're not a fan but all of those tools to gather information is useful and worthwhile. Just because we're on a poor run doesn't change that - all the top clubs have a ridiculous amount of tools to gather information about their players. It's not uncommon.

[Robbored]

25 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Can't see that happening Tom.

Two new signings in Taylor and Cotterill will probably both start. 

Shame LJ didn't recruit an experienced RB tho, I thought Little was very poor last night.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Why do you think the side changes week in, week out. Do we need drones to show our Head Coach the "shape of the team" in training and tinker the formation every week. In my mind a good settled side should have tactically aware players who can adapt to their oppositions style of play.

 

10 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I meant the 'scientific crap' bit - I expect we will change the side. I'd like to think we would do something similar to what Spudski has said partly as I think it'll get the best out of Tomlin.

Has Cotterill played many games at RWB? I haven't followed him at Birmingham really. I think he could be very good on that side, maybe a bit like what Elliot Bennett was as a RWB/Winger. 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

Just a thought 

[Chappers]

Just keep it simple, 4-4-1-1 seems to be the shape that the players are most comfortable with and understand. We don't have the quality of wing backs to play that system, and shuffling it all around just to accommodate new players is never a good idea. Even starting with a second striker means shuffling things about to accommodate Tomlin, so just keep it simple.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Can't see that happening Tom.

Two new signings in Taylor and Cotterill will probably both start. 

Shame LJ didn't recruit an experienced RB tho, I thought Little was very poor last night.

I think Taylor and Cotterill will start too, and to accommodate two up front with Tomlin in the hole he would have to go three at the back.  I thought Hegeler was mediocre last night, and I'd put him back in the back three.  As to Little, once Tomlin came off the right wing he improved no end, as he no longer had to do the job of two players.  I thought he was pretty good in the second half.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think Taylor and Cotterill will start too, and to accommodate two up front with Tomlin in the hole he would have to go three at the back.  I thought Hegeler was mediocre last night, and I'd put him back in the back three.  As to Little, once Tomlin came off the right wing he improved no end, as he no longer had to do the job of two players.  I thought he was pretty good in the second half.

Will be very very surprised if Taylor starts 

LJ has already said he's a punt / bit of a gamble and may well have him as a wild card on the bench but will be surprised if he forces a starting place very soon (Though will be quite happy if he does because he's hit the ground running !)

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

Just a thought 

I think our 'tinkering' has been more down to the injuries to GoN, Matthews, Smith and lately Magners mate.

If they were not injured we'd be more sttled imo.

In saying that, tinkering to find our best side on the day, will also take into account lack of fitness or loss of form...which we've had with Tomlin, Little, Golbourne and Bryan.

Plus our GK problems.

That's a lot of problems to try and resolve.

I believe we'd have a much more settled side if we hadn't had these issues...and it's something a lot of people seem to over look.

One for our dad's last night mate...smile on my old mans face when our second went in was pure gold ;-)

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

 

An excellent post Bob. 

Good points and well made.

[BCFC_Dan]

50 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Entirely agree, especially for a game where we expect to attack for most of the game and really need a good win.

I'm not sure I'd put either of the new signings in right away. Cotterill maybe but I don't see how Taylor improves anything. Much better to stick with a settled side and let them grow in confidence together.

[cidered abroad]

52 minutes ago, Tomarse said:

Personally hope we start with the same 11. We have to stop changing it around every week 

Cotterill wide right, Callum wide left and JB left back.

But also like the 3-5-2 in first post as it brings back Hordur.

I thought Djuric did ok as sub.

[BobBobSuperBob]

18 minutes ago, Robbored said:

An excellent post Bob. 

Good points and well made.

Thankyou

Im an analyser (Ironically ) and it was PF and Big Tones conversation that homed in on a possible problem

Its difficult / impossible to tell unless you shadowed LJ all week but I wonder if he's got that balance between analysing and going with good old 'gut instinct' ('Gut instinct' is anything but , it's a decision ,made in the brain ,based on the information you have in your head rather than on a lap top or piece of paper)

I wonder if the 'modern Coach'  label has run on too quick at the moment

If Lee is to progress , he may need to redress the balance,  get back to basics and now we have the squad we have , decide on our best way to play for the rest of this scrap and work and work on improving our game rather than worrying how we are going to out manoeuvre our next opponents

Be aware of their strengths and weaknesses etc etc but be careful they don't dictate how we play before a ball is even picked

We have a lot of new players to integrate into the squad and starting 11 potentially - I'd suggest the last thing we need to do on top is over complicate things

If Lee does over complicate and tinker too much I fear we are in major trouble - keep it relatively simple and with the squad we have - we'd have a real chance

I do wonder what JP thinks of some of our set ups !

I hope JP might be able to influence Lee to do what he did when he took over the role this time last year , which to me was , he kept it simple ,  round pegs , round holes , got the players fired up and ..jobs a good in !!

@spudski I do accept injuries havnt helped  but I think there are many changes that aren't injury related - and not being able to find a keeper who doesn't make an error every other game doesn't help , I agree !!!

 

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Your 'conversation' got me thinking and I do wonder whether one of Lees major issues/problems may be that he over complicates and over analyses , constantly tinkering with our formation and personnel because of the opposition.

Now of course , analysis and awareness of opposition set ups , set pieces , strengths and weaknesses can only help but it also strikes me that Lee almost gets 'strangled' by thinking too deeply , too intensely - I can imagine through his determination and enthusiasm sitting up on his laptop at 2 in the morning analysing our next opponents

Sometimes too much information can be bad I'd suggest

Is our coach  in 'information overload' ?

In a strange way has our enhanced / expanded analysis department actually a source of a current problem ?

(That sounds madness and in any real sense can't be correct , I'd suggest availability of all the analysis material is good and should be a pot to dip in and utilise but not  IMHO something that should dictate your every turn and decision - I just wonder whether Lee has that balance right ? 

I can see what BIg Tone is saying - Drones etc are nice things to have available for a specific ODD purpose , but I do wonder whether we spend more time looking at videos and data than what's happening close up and personal.

SAF was happy to stand , watch and analyse himself, what he saw - he wanted to get a 'feel' about a player , or how intense training was - Most great managers / coaches actually rely on great instinct rather than data)

 

I have no evidence that Lee is over the top in analysis other than bits of interviews and the constant tinkering

Just a thought 

He makes a lot of sense...

1. Listen: Most people don't use their eyes and ears effectively. As a result they miss half of what's going on around them. There's a reason God gave us two ears, two eyes and one mouth. It's so you can listen and watch twice as much as you talk. Best of all, listening costs you nothing.

2. Value discipline: Once you bid farewell to discipline you say goodbye to success and set the stage for anarchy. Weed out players who are disruptive or undermine unity, even if they are individually talented.

3. Be present: Leaders underestimate just how important their presence can be.

 

4. Recognize hunger: For years, I've tried to fathom why some people possess greater drive than others. I'm not closer to solving that riddle, but I learned how to harness that power. If I had to pick between work ethic or talent as the most potent fuel, it would be the former.

5. Focus on the pipeline: When you run any organization, you have to look as far down the road as far you can and create a conveyor belt of talent. Gradually move older players out and younger players in. It's always easier to produce a consistent level of high performance when you nourish youngsters. They can inject fantastic spirit and will repay you back with loyalty. Once they know you are batting for them, they will accept your way.

6. Command respect: You can't aspire to be loved, because that isn't going to happen, Nor do you want people to be frightened of you. Stay somewhere in the middle and have them respect and trust and see you as fair.

7. Never be afraid to fire someone: Firing people is never easy. But there is no point beating around the bush, by taking them out for dinner. Gimmicks don't change the message. If you decide to get rid of someone, nothing beats honesty.

8. Keep a firm grip on control: Don't allow anyone to be stronger than you. Your personality has to be bigger than theirs. That's vital. It's not about looking for adversity or for opportunities to prove power; it's about having control and being authoritative when issues do arise.

9. Own the message: Whether the message is one person or 75,000, you need to assemble your thoughts, know what you want to emphasize and just say it. In meetings it is important to maintain eye contact and look directly at someone because it adds intensity to the delivery of the message. And never rely on notes. Nobody will ever believe that someone is an authority on a subject if they keep resorting to notes.

10. Use simple language — or none at all: Too many managers talk too much. The two most important words for a player, or for any human being, there is nothing better than hearing "Well done." And few reprimands are as powerful as silence.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Thankyou

Im an analyser (Ironically ) and it was PF and Big Tones conversation that homed in on a possible problem

Its difficult / impossible to tell unless you shadowed LJ all week but I wonder if he's got that balance between analysing and going with good old 'gut instinct' ('Gut instinct' is anything but , it's a decision ,made in the brain ,based on the information you have in your head rather than on a lap top or piece of paper)

I wonder if the 'modern Coach'  label has run on too quick at the moment

If Lee is to progress , he may need to redress the balance,  get back to basics and now we have the squad we have , decide on our best way to play for the rest of this scrap and work and work on improving our game rather than worrying how we are going to out manoeuvre our next opponents

Be aware of their strengths and weaknesses etc etc but be careful they don't dictate how we play before a ball is even picked

We have a lot of new players to integrate into the squad and starting 11 potentially - I'd suggest the last thing we need to do on top is over complicate things

If Lee does over complicate and tinker too much I fear we are in major trouble - keep it relatively simple and with the squad we have - we'd have a real chance

I do wonder what JP thinks of some of our set ups !

I hope JP might be able to influence Lee to do what he did when he took over the role this time last year , which to me was , he kept it simple ,  round pegs , round holes , got the players fired up and ..jobs a good in !!

 

Interestingly it was Cotterill who introduced some ideas which LJ has kept which probably would be called 'new fangled' by some! 

If i'm correct - the players use a combination of phone apps and monitors to record everything from their sleep to their mood which they then feedback to the club each morning.

I believe too that Cotterill went to a seminar in France on 532/352 which showed how fluid and successful the formation can be and he implemented it when he came here.

I think if Pemberton felt too frustrated or that he wasn't being listened to he'd have left - i'm sure he could easily get a job much closer to Sheffield but has chosen to stay under 3 different managers now. Who knows, maybe he relies on analysis heavily himself.

I think sometimes the way managers speak can be misleading and we don't really know what goes on at the club on a daily basis. What we get from LJ though is far more of an insight into how things work - which I really like - that perhaps has created a conception that he over-complicates things. Football is about fine margins so much now because the players are all top level athletes. It really is the extra 1 or 2% that make a difference and I believe LJ when he talks about this. Anything to get an advantage over the opposition will be used and all clubs in the top few leagues will be using more and more analysis now.

Interestingly it was actually Sam Allerdyce (not your archetypal 'modern coach') who introduced lots of this after he spent time in America. His Bolton set up had a bunker where he and his team of coaches and analysts picked apart statistical analysis.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

He makes a lot of sense...

1. Listen: Most people don't use their eyes and ears effectively. As a result they miss half of what's going on around them. There's a reason God gave us two ears, two eyes and one mouth. It's so you can listen and watch twice as much as you talk. Best of all, listening costs you nothing.

2. Value discipline: Once you bid farewell to discipline you say goodbye to success and set the stage for anarchy. Weed out players who are disruptive or undermine unity, even if they are individually talented.

3. Be present: Leaders underestimate just how important their presence can be.

 

4. Recognize hunger: For years, I've tried to fathom why some people possess greater drive than others. I'm not closer to solving that riddle, but I learned how to harness that power. If I had to pick between work ethic or talent as the most potent fuel, it would be the former.

5. Focus on the pipeline: When you run any organization, you have to look as far down the road as far you can and create a conveyor belt of talent. Gradually move older players out and younger players in. It's always easier to produce a consistent level of high performance when you nourish youngsters. They can inject fantastic spirit and will repay you back with loyalty. Once they know you are batting for them, they will accept your way.

6. Command respect: You can't aspire to be loved, because that isn't going to happen, Nor do you want people to be frightened of you. Stay somewhere in the middle and have them respect and trust and see you as fair.

7. Never be afraid to fire someone: Firing people is never easy. But there is no point beating around the bush, by taking them out for dinner. Gimmicks don't change the message. If you decide to get rid of someone, nothing beats honesty.

8. Keep a firm grip on control: Don't allow anyone to be stronger than you. Your personality has to be bigger than theirs. That's vital. It's not about looking for adversity or for opportunities to prove power; it's about having control and being authoritative when issues do arise.

9. Own the message: Whether the message is one person or 75,000, you need to assemble your thoughts, know what you want to emphasize and just say it. In meetings it is important to maintain eye contact and look directly at someone because it adds intensity to the delivery of the message. And never rely on notes. Nobody will ever believe that someone is an authority on a subject if they keep resorting to notes.

10. Use simple language — or none at all: Too many managers talk too much. The two most important words for a player, or for any human being, there is nothing better than hearing "Well done." And few reprimands are as powerful as silence.

This isn't from SAF is it Spud ?

[spudski]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

This isn't from SAF is it Spud ?

Yes mate...it's his top 10 thoughts for leadership from his book.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Interestingly it was Cotterill who introduced some ideas which LJ has kept which probably would be called 'new fangled' by some! 

If i'm correct - the players use a combination of phone apps and monitors to record everything from their sleep to their mood which they then feedback to the club each morning.

I believe too that Cotterill went to a seminar in France on 532/352 which showed how fluid and successful the formation can be and he implemented it when he came here.

I think if Pemberton felt too frustrated or that he wasn't being listened to he'd have left - i'm sure he could easily get a job much closer to Sheffield but has chosen to stay under 3 different managers now. Who knows, maybe he relies on analysis heavily himself.

I think sometimes the way managers speak can be misleading and we don't really know what goes on at the club on a daily basis. What we get from LJ though is far more of an insight into how things work - which I really like - that perhaps has created a conception that he over-complicates things. Football is about fine margins so much now because the players are all top level athletes. It really is the extra 1 or 2% that make a difference and I believe LJ when he talks about this. Anything to get an advantage over the opposition will be used.

Agree with all that PF and I fully endorse the use of science and technology where it can help

I just wonder about the balance of the various aspects and impact on a coaches time and his mental energy

As a simple example , does the analysis impact on time he has with players , even if it means he has less time to mix with players away from the training pitch etc (I'm not suggesting it does but it's the sort of thing that could throw the %2 gains in reverse