Six nations

['Orns]

The Italians didn't do anything wrong yesterday, sure it didn't make for a great spectacle, but as someone said over the pub at h/t - the All Blacks would have sussed it out and been 30 points clear at half time

England not clicking, but 3 out of 3, you can't argue with that too much. Two great games to finish with as well, looking forward to both

[MichaelRobartes]

1 hour ago, Woodsy said:

The Italians didn't do anything wrong yesterday, sure it didn't make for a great spectacle, but as someone said over the pub at h/t - the All Blacks would have sussed it out and been 30 points clear at half time

England not clicking, but 3 out of 3, you can't argue with that too much. Two great games to finish with as well, looking forward to both

Can't beat winning when you're not playing that great. England will be better when they come to Lansdown, especially if they get Billy back. That said I don't think Ireland have played well yet either, we should have put 40+ on France but made far too many errors. I don't think that we'll be able to maul England around like we have done to other teams (though not in this championship) but the scrum might be an area Ireland will feel they can get on top. We have four very good props to call on now and I thought Cole had a dodgy enough outing yesterday.

This will obviously bite me on the arse now after England score 6 penalty tries from scrums.

['Orns]

23 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Can't beat winning when you're not playing that great. England will be better when they come to Lansdown, especially if they get Billy back. That said I don't think Ireland have played well yet either, we should have put 40+ on France but made far too many errors. I don't think that we'll be able to maul England around like we have done to other teams (though not in this championship) but the scrum might be an area Ireland will feel they can get on top. We have four very good props to call on now and I thought Cole had a dodgy enough outing yesterday.

This will obviously bite me on the arse now after England score 6 penalty tries from scrums.

Ha - I'll settle for that, mate!

Certainly hope that England get through unscathed from the Scotland game, and Ireland win in Wales - will set it up for a brilliant finish. Not been the highest quality tournament, but it's been quite an intriguing one in a way. So glad Scotland have got two good wins, about time they were relevant again

[MichaelRobartes]

15 minutes ago, Woodsy said:

Ha - I'll settle for that, mate!

Certainly hope that England get through unscathed from the Scotland game, and Ireland win in Wales - will set it up for a brilliant finish. Not been the highest quality tournament, but it's been quite an intriguing one in a way. So glad Scotland have got two good wins, about time they were relevant again

You owe me a pint if that happens!

Agree about Scotland. Obviously I'd have preferred to have beaten them but it's great to see so many competitive matches this year. They're more than capable of doing England some damage but I expect England to get the job done at home. In a strange way I'm more worried about the Wales match than England, maybe because we have to go to Cardiff. I fancy Wales to put in a big shift and turn us over after their disappointments in the last couple of matches.

[Red-Robbo]

34 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

You owe me a pint if that happens!

Agree about Scotland. Obviously I'd have preferred to have beaten them but it's great to see so many competitive matches this year. They're more than capable of doing England some damage but I expect England to get the job done at home. In a strange way I'm more worried about the Wales match than England, maybe because we have to go to Cardiff. I fancy Wales to put in a big shift and turn us over after their disappointments in the last couple of matches.

And I'm more worried about your lot!

Not least because I'd never hear the last of it from the professional Irishman in my local if we blew the Grand slam and the record in Dublin. 

[MichaelRobartes]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

And I'm more worried about your lot!

Not least because I'd never hear the last of it from the professional Irishman in my local if we blew the Grand slam and the record in Dublin. 

It wouldn't be the first time, someone reminded me of the match in Lansdown back in 2011 the other day. If Billy isn't back then I'll be a lot more confident. Sexton, Stander, Furlong and Murray will obviously all get injured in Cardiff because of all the reasons and we'll be up shit creek anyway so I'm not thinking about England yet.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

4 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Have seen a few people with the same opinion, but I disagree. It's all about opinions and there is a lot of competition, especially in the second and back rows. I can't see AWJ not touring with Fatland in charge either.

The captaincy might be a problem. Of the four British and Irish captains I'd say AWJ has gone the best so far. Rory is a warrior for Ireland and he's made a good captain, but I just think he has something lacking. I don't find Hartley impressive as a captain at all and would actually pick Jamie George ahead of him. I don't think Laidlaw is one of the four best scrum halves in the Isles either. so unless they choose someone left field like Warburton (hardly radical but he's no longer Welsh captain and isn't guaranteed a starting place at all) or Murray the options seem a bit limited.

I'd pick both the Grays, Itoje, Lawes and Launchbury over AWJ personally. And as for his captaincy, he was over-ruled by his kickers at the weekend. I agree though about the other three captains though, especially Hartley who is not England's best hooker. There is a distinct lack of leaders in the British Isles at the moment. Martin Johnson and Paul O'Connell picked themselves on their leadership alone before anyone even considered their (undoubted) ability. AWJ doesn't do that for me.

It does seem clear that whoever is captain, they won't be the best player in their position, as there are no real leaders imo in the best XV. If AWJ is the captain then we'd sacrifice a second row, if it is Warburton we'd sacrifice a flanker. That said, both are test quality players so it is not the end of the world. 

[MichaelRobartes]

1 minute ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I'd pick both the Grays, Itoje, Lawes and Launchbury over AWJ personally. And as for his captaincy, he was over-ruled by his kickers at the weekend. I agree though about the other three captains though, especially Hartley who is not England's best hooker. There is a distinct lack of leaders in the British Isles at the moment. Martin Johnson and Paul O'Connell picked themselves on their leadership alone before anyone even considered their (undoubted) ability. AWJ doesn't do that for me.

It does seem clear that whoever is captain, they won't be the best player in their position, as there are no real leaders imo in the best XV. If AWJ is the captain then we'd sacrifice a second row, if it is Warburton we'd sacrifice a flanker. That said, both are test quality players so it is not the end of the world. 

I wouldn't take Richie Gray or Lawes if there are only four to go, though I think they're both good players. There's not much to choose between six or seven guys in that position. It's no easier in the back row either. I think CJ will play at 6 or 8 unless someone kidnaps him or something. His best position is 8 but I'd be minded to play him at 6 with Billy Vunipola at 8. I certainly wouldn't pick Warburton ahead of either of those guys, and is he a better 7 than Tipuric or O'Brien? I don't think so. I imagine he'll tour though.

If we're picking a captain based on certain starters at this point in time you're probably looking at Murray and Sexton and the latter's injury record isn't great. The incident with Biggar at the weekend aside, AWJ is well respected as a good captain, not least by the legend Paulie after the third Lions test in Australia. That's good enough for me. If no contenders emerge then that experience could be enough to tip what will no doubt be a tight selection call in his favour. Even if Fatland rates whoever above AWJ I'd say the team will lose less in that way than it would by benching one of the front line back-rowers.

The problem position is probably at hooker. I'd take Ken Owens, Fraser Brown and Rory at this point in time but I wouldn't say any of them have stood out recently. I imagine Rory will tour because he's an experienced guy in what will probably be a fairly green group. It's a shame that England don't pick Jamie George as he might start in my team, but of course that doesn't bar him from selection.

['Orns]

3 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

You owe me a pint if that happens!

Agree about Scotland. Obviously I'd have preferred to have beaten them but it's great to see so many competitive matches this year. They're more than capable of doing England some damage but I expect England to get the job done at home. In a strange way I'm more worried about the Wales match than England, maybe because we have to go to Cardiff. I fancy Wales to put in a big shift and turn us over after their disappointments in the last couple of matches.

Yeah, know what you mean. My Welsh drinking buddy was very downbeat when I saw him yesterday (even Swindon's win on Saturday didn't brighten his mood). You get the feeling they will turn up at some point during the tournament though. Wal - Ire is always one of my fav games, no love lost there, love it

23 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I wouldn't take Richie Gray or Lawes if there are only four to go, though I think they're both good players. There's not much to choose between six or seven guys in that position. It's no easier in the back row either. I think CJ will play at 6 or 8 unless someone kidnaps him or something. His best position is 8 but I'd be minded to play him at 6 with Billy Vunipola at 8. I certainly wouldn't pick Warburton ahead of either of those guys, and is he a better 7 than Tipuric or O'Brien? I don't think so. I imagine he'll tour though.

If we're picking a captain based on certain starters at this point in time you're probably looking at Murray and Sexton and the latter's injury record isn't great. The incident with Biggar at the weekend aside, AWJ is well respected as a good captain, not least by the legend Paulie after the third Lions test in Australia. That's good enough for me. If no contenders emerge then that experience could be enough to tip what will no doubt be a tight selection call in his favour. Even if Fatland rates whoever above AWJ I'd say the team will lose less in that way than it would by benching one of the front line back-rowers.

The problem position is probably at hooker. I'd take Ken Owens, Fraser Brown and Rory at this point in time but I wouldn't say any of them have stood out recently. I imagine Rory will tour because he's an experienced guy in what will probably be a fairly green group. It's a shame that England don't pick Jamie George as he might start in my team, but of course that doesn't bar him from selection.

Stander, could watch him all day. He's replacing Parrise as the bloke from another team I love to watch

At the risk of offending your fav - but is Zebo carrying a bit of timber this year? He looks like he's put a pound or two on?

[Welcome To The Jungle]

17 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I wouldn't take Richie Gray or Lawes if there are only four to go, though I think they're both good players. There's not much to choose between six or seven guys in that position. It's no easier in the back row either. I think CJ will play at 6 or 8 unless someone kidnaps him or something. His best position is 8 but I'd be minded to play him at 6 with Billy Vunipola at 8. I certainly wouldn't pick Warburton ahead of either of those guys, and is he a better 7 than Tipuric or O'Brien? I don't think so. I imagine he'll tour though.

If we're picking a captain based on certain starters at this point in time you're probably looking at Murray and Sexton and the latter's injury record isn't great. The incident with Biggar at the weekend aside, AWJ is well respected as a good captain, not least by the legend Paulie after the third Lions test in Australia. That's good enough for me. If no contenders emerge then that experience could be enough to tip what will no doubt be a tight selection call in his favour. Even if Fatland rates whoever above AWJ I'd say the team will lose less in that way than it would by benching one of the front line back-rowers.

The problem position is probably at hooker. I'd take Ken Owens, Fraser Brown and Rory at this point in time but I wouldn't say any of them have stood out recently. I imagine Rory will tour because he's an experienced guy in what will probably be a fairly green group. It's a shame that England don't pick Jamie George as he might start in my team, but of course that doesn't bar him from selection.

As long as Itoje is the other second rower then I think I agree that losing a better second rower is better than dropping a better flanker. 

[MichaelRobartes]

13 hours ago, Woodsy said:

Yeah, know what you mean. My Welsh drinking buddy was very downbeat when I saw him yesterday (even Swindon's win on Saturday didn't brighten his mood). You get the feeling they will turn up at some point during the tournament though. Wal - Ire is always one of my fav games, no love lost there, love it

Stander, could watch him all day. He's replacing Parrise as the bloke from another team I love to watch

At the risk of offending your fav - but is Zebo carrying a bit of timber this year? He looks like he's put a pound or two on?

CJ is one of the best signings Munster have ever made. Got so much time for him upping sticks and moving to us after being told that he was too small to play for the Boks and would have to convert to hooker to be considered. He'd be their best player now!

I'm not sure on Zebo, he looked bigger last season and had a poor one by his standards but he's been brilliant this season. He probably had his poorest outing yet against France, but he wasn't alone there.

13 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

As long as Itoje is the other second rower then I think I agree that losing a better second rower is better than dropping a better flanker. 

Ah now, Sir Maro can't even get into the row for England! 

[Lrrr]

He's playing back row partly because England's back row isn't great (Billy aside) at the moment, for me Launchbury has to start at second row, he's been incredible lately. 

Front row I'm not sure of at the moment, but think my preferred team (others in squad after) would start looking like:

1. Vunipola
2. Best/Owens/Geroge
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury/Gray
5. AW Jones/Itoje 
6. Stander/Barclay
7. Tipuric/O'Brien
8. Vunipola (providing he gets back to full form and fitness)/Moriarty/Faletau
9. Murray/Care/Webb
10. Sexton/Bigger
11. Daly/Williams
12. Farrell
13. Davies/Joseph 
14. North (lets face it he'll play)/Nowell
15. Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown

Think I'd like to see Care being the sub scrum half, great energy to have coming off the bench, but no doubt it'll be Webb....

[MichaelRobartes]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

He's playing back row partly because England's back row isn't great (Billy aside) at the moment, for me Launchbury has to start at second row, he's been incredible lately. 

Front row I'm not sure of at the moment, but think my preferred team (others in squad after) would start looking like:

1. Vunipola
2. Best/Owens/Geroge
3. Furlong
4. Launchbury/Gray
5. AW Jones/Itoje 
6. Stander/Barclay
7. Tipuric/O'Brien
8. Vunipola (providing he gets back to full form and fitness)/Moriarty/Faletau
9. Murray/Care/Webb
10. Sexton/Bigger
11. Daly/Williams
12. Farrell
13. Davies/Joseph 
14. North (lets face it he'll play)/Nowell
15. Hogg/Halfpenny/Brown

Think I'd like to see Care being the sub scrum half, great energy to have coming off the bench, but no doubt it'll be Webb....

That's a pretty decent side, Hodge. If the first test was tomorrow I'd pick:

1. McGrath/ M. Vunipola

2. Owens/ Best

3. Furlong/ Nel (if fit)

4. J. Gray/ Launchbury

5. AWJ/ Itoje

6. Stander/ Warburton

7. Tipuric/ O'Brien

8. B. Vunipola/ Heaslip

9. Murray/ Webb

10. Sexton/ S. Davies

11. Daly/ Zebo

12. Farrell/ Henshaw

13. J. Davies/Joseph (this one is tough, might be tempted to play Henshaw at 13)

14. Seymour/ Nowell

15. L. Williams/ Hogg

Very similar to your team actually. I suppose the main difference would be Williams at full back. I think he's the best back three player in the Isles and it's a crime that Wales don't play him in his best position. The clamour seems to be for Hogg which is understandable but Williams is a much better defender and just as dangerous with boot or ball in hand. Sam Davies gives you something different off the bench and should be starting for Wales in my opinion and Farrell is there to kick goals if we're worried about the inexperienced fella messing up. Farrell would be my backup 10 if he wasn't in the 12 shirt anyway. If Vunipola doesn't make it I would probably put Stander at 8 and bring O'Brien in at 6.

As you say, North will start if fit and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Halfpenny at fullback. As discussed with WTTJ you could almost flip a coin on five or six of the locks at the moment.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

14 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

CJ is onit of the best signings Munster have ever made. Got so much time for him upping sticks and moving to us after being told that he was too small to play for the Boks and would have to convert to hooker to be considered. He'd be their best player now!

I'm not sure on Zebo, he looked bigger last season and had a poor one by his standards but he's been brilliant this season. He probably had his poorest outing yet against France, but he wasn't alone there.

Ah now, Sir Maro can't even get into the row for England! 

...because we have average back rowers. And It means we can play all three great second rows.

[B1ackbird]

On 27 February 2017 at 12:00, Woodsy said:

The Italians didn't do anything wrong yesterday, sure it didn't make for a great spectacle, but as someone said over the pub at h/t - the All Blacks would have sussed it out and been 30 points clear at half time

England not clicking, but 3 out of 3, you can't argue with that too much. Two great games to finish with as well, looking forward to both

I'm sure as hell glad I didn't pay £75 for a ticket though...

 

[MichaelRobartes]

9 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

...because we have average back rowers. And It means we can play all three great second rows.

I'm only messing. It makes perfect sense for England to play him there with their current back row options. As we saw, England have also got the most out of Itoje's scrummaging by having him pack down behind Marler.

I think England will have fewer problems there soon with Sam Underhill going to Baff next season. Having a proper openside will improve their back row balance no end.

 

[B1ackbird]

On 27 February 2017 at 08:53, MichaelRobartes said:

Australia did it against us in the Autumn. If he'd seen that then he would presumably have seen that it was dealt with and not repeated by Australia. He might have thought that it'd put England out a bit but I can't imagine he'd have anticipated it disrupting their game to that extent. 

COS wants to win whoever his team are togging out against. He'd have loved to put one over on us, no doubt about it.

With the best will in the world Michael, why would Austrailia employ a tactic that's only used to keep the try count down against any northern hemisphere side?

Seems bizarre...

[MichaelRobartes]

6 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

With the best will in the world Michael, why would Austrailia employ a tactic that's only used to keep the try count down against any northern hemisphere side?

Seems bizarre...

In fairness it wasn't at all as I remembered it (I was not at all sober and spent pretty much the whole second half screeching at the telly) but it's outlined here if you're interested:

http://www.the42.ie/david-pocock-no-ruck-no-offside-laws-3105859-Nov2016/

I'm sure that COS and Venter wanted to throw England a curveball to see how they dealt with it. If England had done what they should have in the first place and bashed it straight up the middle through the huge hole created by Italy not being allowed to stand within a metre of Danny Care then that would have put a very quick halt to it. I could understand any team being bemused by the tactic the first couple of times, but to not just pick and go after that is pretty poor. It's especially weird when you consider that Jones and Gustard said that they had a plan for it after Pocock's interception against us in November.

For all their strengths, the England team clearly aren't geared towards solving problems for themselves on the pitch. That much was illustrated by Hartley and The Brand's bizarre conversations with Poite. England were more worried about forcing the Italians to create rucks so that they could execute their systems than playing around - or through - it. It also shouldn't be forgotten that it's a very risky tactic, especially against a team with as many heavy carriers as England.

I'm not having a go at England (well I am a bit but I'd say the same if Munster or Ireland or anyone else played it the way they did). Their failure to adapt for so long really surprised me and I imagine the bellyaching from Jones is a way of trying to mask that in the same way that Ferguson and Mourinho have done after poor performances.

[B1ackbird]

1 hour ago, MichaelRobartes said:

In fairness it wasn't at all as I remembered it (I was not at all sober and spent pretty much the whole second half screeching at the telly) but it's outlined here if you're interested:

http://www.the42.ie/david-pocock-no-ruck-no-offside-laws-3105859-Nov2016/

I'm sure that COS and Venter wanted to throw England a curveball to see how they dealt with it. If England had done what they should have in the first place and bashed it straight up the middle through the huge hole created by Italy not being allowed to stand within a metre of Danny Care then that would have put a very quick halt to it. I could understand any team being bemused by the tactic the first couple of times, but to not just pick and go after that is pretty poor. It's especially weird when you consider that Jones and Gustard said that they had a plan for it after Pocock's interception against us in November.

For all their strengths, the England team clearly aren't geared towards solving problems for themselves on the pitch. That much was illustrated by Hartley and The Brand's bizarre conversations with Poite. England were more worried about forcing the Italians to create rucks so that they could execute their systems than playing around - or through - it. It also shouldn't be forgotten that it's a very risky tactic, especially against a team with as many heavy carriers as England.

I'm not having a go at England (well I am a bit but I'd say the same if Munster or Ireland or anyone else played it the way they did). Their failure to adapt for so long really surprised me and I imagine the bellyaching from Jones is a way of trying to mask that in the same way that Ferguson and Mourinho have done after poor performances.

I get why Italy chose to employ thoes tactics, if reports of them being replaced are true, although, the RFU not wanting an 'all expenses paid jolly' to the Eternal City every year is hard to believe.

Do you think there's a case to bring in another Country and,if so, could they be more competitive?

[MichaelRobartes]

2 hours ago, B1ackbird said:

I get why Italy chose to employ thoes tactics, if reports of them being replaced are true, although, the RFU not wanting an 'all expenses paid jolly' to the Eternal City every year is hard to believe.

Do you think there's a case to bring in another Country and,if so, could they be more competitive?

I actually think they've done okay this year so far. They could have beaten Wales if they hadn't blown up after 65 minutes. The England match would have been close if they had a goal kicker. They were truly terrible against us though.

I would like to bring Georgia into an expanded tournament because I think they need more tests against better sides, but if it has to stay at 6 teams then I don't think there's any case for bringing anyone else in. Georgia are ranked higher than Italy but that's because they don't get to play tier one opposition consistently like Italy do. I'm convinced that if there was a relegation playoff Italy would take them to the cleaners. The other factor is that Tbilisi is by all accounts an absolute nightmare to get to, quite far removed from a nice jolly in Rome as you say!

[Lrrr]

Wanting Wales to win doesn't feel right 

[Lrrr]

Annoyingly with Gatland in charge Mike Phillips is probably right that the Lions 9 shirt is between Murray and Webb, in reality it should be Murray's shirt and I'd have Danny Care coming off the bench.

[Northern Red]

Paul O'Connell is such a thoroughly bloody nice bloke. 

[steveybadger]

7 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Paul O'Connell is such a thoroughly bloody nice bloke. 

Not when playing against him!

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

Annoyingly with Gatland in charge Mike Phillips is probably right that the Lions 9 shirt is between Murray and Webb, in reality it should be Murray's shirt and I'd have Danny Care coming off the bench.

With the itinery  the Lions have got in NZ, they will need about 4 players for every position!. 

Having lived in NZ ( still have family there) I follow NZ rugby Intensly, I seriously cannot believe the Lions agreed to,play the teams they are going to play. 

Its feesable they could lose every game, I'm not for one second saying they will, but they are playing teams full of real quality.

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Portland Bill said:

With the itinery  the Lions have got in NZ, they will need about 4 players for every position!. 

Having lived in NZ ( still have family there) I follow NZ rugby Intensly, I seriously cannot believe the Lions agreed to,play the teams they are going to play. 

Its feesable they could lose every game, I'm not for one second saying they will, but they are playing teams full of real quality.

Oh I don't dispute that Webb would go, just that he's seriously competing with Murray and that its between the two of them for the starting place, as said it should  be Murray's place atm and Care would be my guy off the bench. Webb would be a good shout for the midweek team.

[Lrrr]

Don't think Wales have been anything special, Ireland have just been screwed a bit by Sexton's yellow. The momentum is clear since he's been back on.

[Super]

Cracking game still fancy ireland

[yardy]

Excellent game so far and two evenly matched teams

[Super]

Ireland only have themselves to blame blew some great chances.