From the ridiculous to the sublime

[Wanderingred]

Wow.. Very encouraging to read, but it just makes it all the more gutting that we put in a performance like that and failed to win. Lets stick with the same starting 11 against Leeds and see what happens.

[Wanderingred]

2 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

Fantastic post.

 

Lovely to see a sensible, balanced perspective instead of those with their agendas against LJ making out a point away to Derby and scoring 3 goals is a sackable offence and focusing on the players losing their composure instead of them and LJ getting us 3-0 up in the first place. Incredibly frustrating but plenty of positives. Three games unbeaten, let's hope we keep building on this.

And quite clearly from that post, you dont have your own agenda....

[Beni71]

Great post and some real positivity. Hope the moaners read this

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

Car crashes gardening leave all kinds of insanity claimed beforehand and then for an hour we saw not just the best performance this season but the best for several years.

We may have squandered a 3-0 lead but as someone who had given up on LJ, let's just be clear that no blame could be attached to him today. Only credit for still having a team that can play. And did they.

We were sensational for long periods. It was the football I was told LJ had wanted to play. It was ridiculous because I have seen none of this all season, not even at Fulham. I have literally no idea where it came from but for an hour it was pressing one touch passing, attacking.

People will moan about a capitulation and it's true Goldbourne seemed to mail it in for the second half and we desperately need higher quality full backs, but let's be clear, we were the better team overall and we had clear chances to score six or seven. Derby didn't, they had three chances and they scored two of them.

Derby looked like us - surrendered the midfield within one minute and sat deep and got nowhere near anyone. We looked like Barcelona. The one touch passing and movement was sensational. How come it suddenly appeared today? Sh*t or bust?

Let's just get this out the way now. Hegeler and Brownhill were off the charts good. The German finds it easy to do everything and was better naturally that anyone on the pitch. But he wasn't the best player. Brownhill through sheer determination was the most complete City midfield performance I have seen for several years. He did everything.

This wasn't LJ City. It was pressing up the field, it was one touch forward passing and movement to carve our way through their defence. We ripped them to pieces. The best move of the first half didn't produce a goal but came agonisingly close to a goal of epic passing and quality.

In the end 3-0 at half time was not a fluke, it was the minimum we deserved. And you know what? We came out after half time and held it together for the crucial first ten. We still looked half decent. Another swift move and cross had Taylor miss a sitter from a yard out. We could have been out of sight.

But Derby were starting to get joy down the flanks because Little and Golbourne were our weakest link - Little played hard but positioning off at times, but Golbourne went into full on meltdown. The black Scottish fella with the big hair changed sides and crosses were coming in from their right and we started to look brittle having run the game.

What really changed it is after their first goal back, some of the players stopped backing themselves to play the same one touch passing and movement that worked so well, and started either hoofing it or playing casual backwards passes that the opposition picked off. Either way the ball came back at us and Derby work up. But not everyone stopped backing themselves - Brownhill and Hegeler were still springing us through their midfield on wide open counter attacks, right to the end, Bryan went really close on one. 

The fact is what did for us is that our best performance since we got promoted was based on energy and movement and legs and we just ran out of juice. Best example was Golbourne of all people got sprung clear on their defence and ran 30 yards and had so little energy left he didn't have the strength to even pass it and just fell over. No coincidence he was involved in the two further goals we conceded.

But be clear - Derby did nothing besides their goals, and the penalty was feeble, it did not look one to me, certainly very tame but in the second half the ref seemed determined to give everything their way - perhaps Shhteve McLaren had a word at half time. We on the other hand kept trying to pass and move through them and had by far the clearer and better chances. Even in injury time we were the ones streaking forward.

The City of a month ago would have lost 4-3. As it was 3-3 flattered Derby. Well done LJ for finally getting the team playing really good football. And last but definitely not least, I have deliberately not mentioned Cotterill, but wow, he deserves to be the conclusion. That, ladies and gentlemen, is what a solid Championship player looks like. What a motor and what experience and confidence. He was better than anyone on the pitch going forward, never stopped working both forward and back, an outlet, holds the ball up, brings others in. I cannot believe how much he did, an absolute travesty he wasn't on a winning side, but guess what, he wasn't even our best player. Take a bow Brownhill and Hegeler.

Don't be sad, today is not an LJ out day, if you saw Taylor drifting off defenders and playing one touch triangles with Brownhill and Hegeler and then Tammy in the box, you would forgive everything that has come before it. This wasn't just better than everything else this season (including the 4-0 at Fulham) it was totally out of character for the team but enough for me to look forward today at least with optimism and curiosity instead of waiting for LJ to be sacked.

As many of you know, I have been honest about performances irrespective of results even when we were winning. And the same applies today, easily the best performance of the season and the best under LJ.

Giefler 6

Little 6

Golbourne 5

Wright 7

Flint 6

Hegeler 10

Brownhill 10

Cotterill 10

Bryan 8

Taylor 9

Abraham 8

Subs:

Duric 7

O'Dowda 6

 

I've been saying it's our fullbacks that will let us down for ages now mate...shame, as we deserved that win. Can't help it if you don't have the quality in certain places. Shame we didn't get anyone decent to fill those spots during January.

Keep the faith bro ;-)

[NOTBLUE]

2 minutes ago, Kim_il_sung said:

Wow.. Very encouraging to read, but it just makes it all the more gutting that we put in a performance like that and failed to win. Lets stick with the same starting 11 against Leeds and see what happens.

Yep same team again,time for some consistency,no more tinkering.

[robin_unreliant]

If the second half collapse was partly down to us running on fumes, I a concerned that we will struggle to recover in time for Tuesday. After a good game against Sheff Wed that seemed to be the case at the next game.

[Red Grovesy]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've been saying it's our fullbacks that will let us down for ages now mate...shame, as we deserved that win. Can't help it if you don't have the quality in certain places. Shame we didn't get anyone decent to fill those spots during January.

Keep the faith bro ;-)

Agree, having been at the game. Both full backs played well for 60 to 70 mins. After that, one or both needed replacing but we didn't have the option to do this.

[BRISTOL86]

Great read as always @Olé and encouraging stuff if someone so scathing of LJ can find the positives even after the disappointment of seeing us surrender a seemingly insurmountable lead. 

On to Leeds and hope we can pull of a shock!

[JHAGa]

10 minutes ago, Kim_il_sung said:

And quite clearly from that post, you dont have your own agenda....

 

It's not an agenda to praise the manager when he's done well recently.

 

It is an agenda to want him gone after a win because some have already made up your mind and would rather the manager get sacked than see the team win, or to want the same after three games unbeaten. Or those that make up shit about him falling out with Tomlin even when the player himself comes out in public and denies it, only for the same people to then claim he's been forced into doing the interview due to their paranoia/agendas. Or people shit stirring before the game today claiming he's been put on gardening leave and told Abraham to drive the car he crashed, ffs. So many people want LJ to fail, it's pathetic.

 

Every negative is focused on, people forget the good work he did before the losing run. I'm not claiming he's a perfect manager by any means and when we lost eight in the row I said myself that nobody could argue he didn't warrant it, if he were to be sacked. However, I will commend him when he's done well recently and won't let the many with agendas on here brainwash me and spread their sheep mentality.

[Drty_Nails]

wotcha, Derby fan here in peace, seriously, City played some of the best football first half that I've seen at Pride Park this season, not many teams come here and put us under the cosh like that! I thought Cotterill was the man of the match, he bossed the midfield and teamed with Brownhill caused us loads of problems! The Derby concourses at half time were seething! When we got one back you seemed to crumble and instead of going for the killer fourth goal sucker punch you stood back. Some great football though, we know how it feels to snatch a draw from a stone-cold victory, chin up and the best to you for the rest of the season.

[finbarr_in_z]

51 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Easy for you to say that after the game.

I think most of us at 3 nil up would have took Tammy and Taylor off with Tuesday night against Leeds in mind. Also the tactical decision to bring MD on most of us would have made to try and hold ball up.

And so would nearly every football manager from what I've seen in 40 years of watching footy.

[finbarr_in_z]

1 hour ago, Olé said:

Car crashes gardening leave all kinds of insanity claimed beforehand and then for an hour we saw not just the best performance this season but the best for several years.

We may have squandered a 3-0 lead but as someone who had given up on LJ, let's just be clear that no blame could be attached to him today. Only credit for still having a team that can play. And did they.

We were sensational for long periods. It was the football I was told LJ had wanted to play. It was ridiculous because I have seen none of this all season, not even at Fulham. I have literally no idea where it came from but for an hour it was pressing one touch passing, attacking.

People will moan about a capitulation and it's true Goldbourne seemed to mail it in for the second half and we desperately need higher quality full backs, but let's be clear, we were the better team overall and we had clear chances to score six or seven. Derby didn't, they had three chances and they scored two of them.

Derby looked like us - surrendered the midfield within one minute and sat deep and got nowhere near anyone. We looked like Barcelona. The one touch passing and movement was sensational. How come it suddenly appeared today? Sh*t or bust?

Let's just get this out the way now. Hegeler and Brownhill were off the charts good. The German finds it easy to do everything and was better naturally that anyone on the pitch. But he wasn't the best player. Brownhill through sheer determination was the most complete City midfield performance I have seen for several years. He did everything.

This wasn't LJ City. It was pressing up the field, it was one touch forward passing and movement to carve our way through their defence. We ripped them to pieces. The best move of the first half didn't produce a goal but came agonisingly close to a goal of epic passing and quality.

In the end 3-0 at half time was not a fluke, it was the minimum we deserved. And you know what? We came out after half time and held it together for the crucial first ten. We still looked half decent. Another swift move and cross had Taylor miss a sitter from a yard out. We could have been out of sight.

But Derby were starting to get joy down the flanks because Little and Golbourne were our weakest link - Little played hard but positioning off at times, but Golbourne went into full on meltdown. The black Scottish fella with the big hair changed sides and crosses were coming in from their right and we started to look brittle having run the game.

What really changed it is after their first goal back, some of the players stopped backing themselves to play the same one touch passing and movement that worked so well, and started either hoofing it or playing casual backwards passes that the opposition picked off. Either way the ball came back at us and Derby work up. But not everyone stopped backing themselves - Brownhill and Hegeler were still springing us through their midfield on wide open counter attacks, right to the end, Bryan went really close on one. 

The fact is what did for us is that our best performance since we got promoted was based on energy and movement and legs and we just ran out of juice. Best example was Golbourne of all people got sprung clear on their defence and ran 30 yards and had so little energy left he didn't have the strength to even pass it and just fell over. No coincidence he was involved in the two further goals we conceded.

But be clear - Derby did nothing besides their goals, and the penalty was feeble, it did not look one to me, certainly very tame but in the second half the ref seemed determined to give everything their way - perhaps Shhteve McLaren had a word at half time. We on the other hand kept trying to pass and move through them and had by far the clearer and better chances. Even in injury time we were the ones streaking forward.

The City of a month ago would have lost 4-3. As it was 3-3 flattered Derby. Well done LJ for finally getting the team playing really good football. And last but definitely not least, I have deliberately not mentioned Cotterill, but wow, he deserves to be the conclusion. That, ladies and gentlemen, is what a solid Championship player looks like. What a motor and what experience and confidence. He was better than anyone on the pitch going forward, never stopped working both forward and back, an outlet, holds the ball up, brings others in. I cannot believe how much he did, an absolute travesty he wasn't on a winning side, but guess what, he wasn't even our best player. Take a bow Brownhill and Hegeler.

Don't be sad, today is not an LJ out day, if you saw Taylor drifting off defenders and playing one touch triangles with Brownhill and Hegeler and then Tammy in the box, you would forgive everything that has come before it. This wasn't just better than everything else this season (including the 4-0 at Fulham) it was totally out of character for the team but enough for me to look forward today at least with optimism and curiosity instead of waiting for LJ to be sacked.

As many of you know, I have been honest about performances irrespective of results even when we were winning. And the same applies today, easily the best performance of the season and the best under LJ.

Giefler 6

Little 6

Golbourne 5

Wright 7

Flint 6

Hegeler 10

Brownhill 10

Cotterill 10

Bryan 8

Taylor 9

Abraham 8

Subs:

Duric 7

O'Dowda 6

 

An accurate, balanced, fair & optimistic post.

No place for that on OTIB.

[spudski]

36 minutes ago, Red Grovesy said:

Agree, having been at the game. Both full backs played well for 60 to 70 mins. After that, one or both needed replacing but we didn't have the option to do this.

It's the same old thing every game this season mate.

Individual players making the same mistakes.

Little does his best...then his worst.

Golbourne...never gets a foot in...just jostles and backs off, almost falling over his own feet. Does it every game.

Bryan...always fails to track his man back...does it every game. Switch's off. Did it again today...failed to pick his man, up who got the cross in for the second.

People can bang on about the manager, formations blah, blah, blah...it isn't that...it's individuals making individual errors, that let the team down.

People will say, it's the managers fault for picking them...and not buying cover. Not always that simple...it's not like shopping in Tesco's.

But it's definitely the same old players this season that are predominantly at fault.

Plus...how did Taylor miss that opportunity...easier to score. Again...individual error. Played well...but it's misses like that, that will kill you.

[Portland Bill]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Today was why I never called for LJ's head, ok maybe not the result but certainly the performance. 

I believe that LJ can get us playing like this every week. Sometimes that belief has been questioned but today reminded me as to why I have maintained my faith all along.

Playing this way just doesn't happen over night, it takes a long time to get the players familiar to this sort of system. 

So Dave Cotterill, Matt Taylor and the other brand new signings have had a "long time" to become famililiar with this sort of system?? 

I appreciate that LJ can do no wrong in your eyes, but to come out with ridiculous statements like that does you no favours.

[Portland Bill]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's the same old thing every game this season mate.

Individual players making the same mistakes.

Little does his best...then his worst.

Golbourne...never gets a foot in...just jostles and backs off, almost falling over his own feet. Does it every game.

Bryan...always fails to track his man back...does it every game. Switch's off. Did it again today...failed to pick his man, up who got the cross in for the second.

People can bang on about the manager, formations blah, blah, blah...it isn't that...it's individuals making individual errors, that let the team down.

People will say, it's the managers fault for picking them...and not buying cover. Not always that simple...it's not like shopping in Tesco's.

But it's definitely the same old players this season that are predominantly at fault.

Remind me who sold Ayling, a very good right back, remind me who didn't have Magnusson on the bench today ( whose 100% fit ) who Is a decent left back. No shopping in Tesco's was needed, 

[North London Red]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Easy for you to say that after the game.

I think most of us at 3 nil up would have took Tammy and Taylor off with Tuesday night against Leeds in mind. Also the tactical decision to bring MD on most of us would have made to try and hold ball up.

 

34 minutes ago, finbarr_in_z said:

And so would nearly every football manager from what I've seen in 40 years of watching footy.

Most managers may have made those changes if the game was won, but today's game was very much still alive when the changes were made. It was actually 3-1 when Taylor went off (not 3-0), and 3-3 when Abraham went off. 

Not having a deliberate pop at LJ here and I can see the logic of bringing Djuric on (as well as holding the ball up, he's also very useful when defending set pieces) - just saying that the likelihood of a 4th goal (which I felt we needed to win the game as soon as Derby got one back) was, in my view, greatly reduced by taking Taylor and Abraham off. 

[Maesknoll Red]

Heartening read, but I'd need to read a few more posts over the coming weeks, like that, with 3 points in the bag to feel that a corner has been turned.  I hope I do, the last thing I want is for this shite run to continue, I have been in the time for Lee to go camp and in all honesty one brighter performance doesn't do much in changing that.  Hopefully in a month or so, I and a few others might be reconsidering, as we climb clear of the drop zone, but I am naturally pessimistic, so I will await that scenario.

[citysimmo]

Fantastic OP, exactly how I saw it and came away with head held high and feeling very positive. By far the best performance we have seen for a long, long time 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

Today was why I never called for LJ's head

Here I am on one almighty unexpected high having seen our team play unlike anything they've done this season, nothing can annoy me today, just nothing.... and then you have to say something as ridiculous or patronising as this. Seriously, have a word with yourself. 

It's been so obvious everyone on both sides of LJ In or LJ Out have been salivating for weeks over being able to say "I told you so" or claim foresight, I honestly can't believe you're the first to raise and wave your flag like today was something you had been predicting.

Today was incredible simply because there has been absolutely no evidence, ZERO evidence, before, that we could play as we did today. Not even in flashes. We've done nothing like we did today, to anyone, ever, this season. Don't start pretending you saw this coming.

If LJ doesn't turn out to be the right manager, I won't be on here raking up posts or views from weeks ago, much less claiming to have foreseen future events. Please don't insult everyone else's intelligence by acting like you had today's style of play pegged weeks ago.

Absolutely shameless!

[spudski]

I think the signings of Hegeler, Duric, Wright, Taylor and Cotterill have made massive improvements in the team.

We still have a weak area in our full back positions, which could still undo us, over the season.

We still have a few players that make individual errors every game.

Today in the first half we all clicked and showed our potential.

However...those individual errors will still cause us pain.

I don't think LJ has done anything different today, to what he's done all season.

A culmination of decent signings, a few decent results under our belt gave some confidence. That gave us the belief.

Plus I would say dropping a couple players that although good on paper, imo, bring more problems than they are worth...namely Tomlin and GoN.

Can see us beating Villa.

[Alex_BCFC]

I came away with very mixed feelings. For 45 minutes I saw a superb display - the best football in years from City. There was one move that put Brownhill in where I thought I was watching Arsenal or something.

But for some reason I felt we needed 4 goals and so it proved. It was like Sheffield Wednesday - once they got one then it became tough and we didn't seem to know how to stop it. Seems we haven't learned which is a concern. We did have chances 2nd half though on the break.

The real problem today was Golbourne and Little had shockers. Little definitely isn't good enough sadly for all his effort.

On the other hand Brownhill and Hegeler were superb. Really good.

But then again, that is 3 games that yielded 5 points with 2 tough games in there. Get something against Leeds and we go on to home Fulham with real hope of a home win I think. 

The key games though will be Burton, Wigan and Blackburn. Perform well in those and we will do well to go down.

I still haven't given up with LJ. He does worry me with a lot of things he does but also I can see the potential in there from things like the first 45 today. So definitely willing to give him more time.

A point gained I think due to that late Fulham winner!

[Portland Bill]

17 minutes ago, Olé said:

Here I am on one almighty unexpected high having seen our team play unlike anything they've done this season, nothing can annoy me today, just nothing.... and then you have to say something as ridiculous or patronising as this. Seriously, have a word with yourself. 

It's been so obvious everyone on both sides of LJ In or LJ Out have been salivating for weeks over being able to say "I told you so" or claim foresight, I honestly can't believe you're the first to raise and wave your flag like today was something you had been predicting.

Today was incredible simply because there has been absolutely no evidence, ZERO evidence, before, that we could play as we did today. Not even in flashes. We've done nothing like we did today, to anyone, ever, this season. Don't start pretending you saw this coming.

If LJ doesn't turn out to be the right manager, I won't be on here raking up posts or views from weeks ago, much less claiming to have foreseen future events. Please don't insult everyone else's intelligence by acting like you had today's style of play pegged weeks ago.

Absolutely shameless!

I've said similar (except shorter) about the same poster on the previous page. As you say, shameless.

[milo1111]

2 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Today was why I never called for LJ's head, ok maybe not the result but certainly the performance. 

I believe that LJ can get us playing like this every week. Sometimes that belief has been questioned but today reminded me as to why I have maintained my faith all along.

Playing this way just doesn't happen over night, it takes a long time to get the players familiar to this sort of system. 

Genuine question..... what sort of system are you saying LJ has been getting the players used to??? Ive not seen to consistent plan at all. What is it you have seen him working towards???

[Chivs]

29 minutes ago, Olé said:

Here I am on one almighty unexpected high having seen our team play unlike anything they've done this season, nothing can annoy me today, just nothing.... and then you have to say something as ridiculous or patronising as this. Seriously, have a word with yourself. 

It's been so obvious everyone on both sides of LJ In or LJ Out have been salivating for weeks over being able to say "I told you so" or claim foresight, I honestly can't believe you're the first to raise and wave your flag like today was something you had been predicting.

Today was incredible simply because there has been absolutely no evidence, ZERO evidence, before, that we could play as we did today. Not even in flashes. We've done nothing like we did today, to anyone, ever, this season. Don't start pretending you saw this coming.

If LJ doesn't turn out to be the right manager, I won't be on here raking up posts or views from weeks ago, much less claiming to have foreseen future events. Please don't insult everyone else's intelligence by acting like you had today's style of play pegged weeks ago.

Absolutely shameless!

I thought we were outstanding for the first 20 minutes versus Preston.  That was without Wright, Djuric, Cotterill etc.

Of course, they scored against the run of play and then we deteriorated... 

[Frenchay Red]

1 hour ago, Red Grovesy said:

Agree, having been at the game. Both full backs played well for 60 to 70 mins. After that, one or both needed replacing but we didn't have the option to do this.

Yes, the fullbacks aren't perhaps the best, but it's not so simple to just lay the blame on them. As the game progressed our midfield duo of Brownhill and Hegeler gradually faded from their outstanding first half performances. Where we were previously defending and dispossessing on the halfway line, including our fullbacks, we slowly conceded more and more ground. This allowed Derby to press us back more deeply and to get more telling crosses in. 

Perhaps bringing Pack on for a tired Brownhill may have helped to keep a higher line defending. I actually thought that both fullbacks had excellent games by their standards, especially attacking and supporting DC and JB. Scotty got so far forward once that he fell over in exhaustion!

[RumRed]

30 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Finally a performance. Getting back to where we were in the latter part of last season. Lets hope this is the start of a proper revival and a move away from relegation thoughts. Unbeaten in 3 games is massive after than awful run. No one wants to see us back in L1. Well done everyone, a point at Derby is a great point. 

Point's great, the manner of it not.

[P'head Red]

10 hours ago, Olé said:

As many of you know, I have been honest about performances irrespective of results even when we were winning. And the same applies today, easily the best performance of the season and the best under LJ.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write this up. Pleased to hear that we played some great stuff for long periods, I just hope we have enough energy to go and do it again on Tuesday with almost the same team! 

[Red Grovesy]

10 hours ago, Frenchay Red said:

Yes, the fullbacks aren't perhaps the best, but it's not so simple to just lay the blame on them. As the game progressed our midfield duo of Brownhill and Hegeler gradually faded from their outstanding first half performances. Where we were previously defending and dispossessing on the halfway line, including our fullbacks, we slowly conceded more and more ground. This allowed Derby to press us back more deeply and to get more telling crosses in. 

Perhaps bringing Pack on for a tired Brownhill may have helped to keep a higher line defending. I actually thought that both fullbacks had excellent games by their standards, especially attacking and supporting DC and JB. Scotty got so far forward once that he fell over in exhaustion!

Sorry FR. I was not trying to 'lay the blame' with the full backs, really trying to make a point that the full back position is one where we have limited creditable options. Fully agree with the excellent Brownhill and Hegeler fading around 60~70 minutes meaning we conceded ground and fell deep. Maybe the O'Dowda substitution would have been better used by bringing on a holding midfielder, but as they say, hindsight.......

[Major Isewater]

13 hours ago, KevP said:

Tuesday night.......hopefully 

If we haven't shot our bolt . Will the same players start ? Will they be able to reproduce the same energy needed to grab hold of the match ?

Answers to these and much more in Tuesday's thrilling installment of Bristol City .

 

[Frenchay Red]

7 minutes ago, Red Grovesy said:

Sorry FR. I was not trying to 'lay the blame' with the full backs, really trying to make a point that the full back position is one where we have limited creditable options. Fully agree with the excellent Brownhill and Hegeler fading around 60~70 minutes meaning we conceded ground and fell deep. Maybe the O'Dowda substitution would have been better used by bringing on a holding midfielder, but as they say, hindsight.......

Too true that our fullback options are limited. Matthews has been a waste of time for one reason or another and I'm not sure Vyner is worth the risk in our precarious position. We do have Magnusson we could fit in somewhere, but he has dropped of the radar for whatever reason. I was fearful that Derby would get the winner, but then I was also desperately hoping we would! Fantastic first half and a great game of football. And although I'm no fan of LJ I wouldn't over criticise him for yesterday, also credit has to go to Derby, they staged a good fight back. Best away performance in terms of pure football since Cotts was here and we were in League 1.