Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 We've been hearing this from a lot of people for a long time. That this squad of players is the best we've had in a long time and we should not be anywhere near the bottom of the league. Hopefully some people are starting to wise up a bit and beginning to realise that these are not the great group of players you all think they are. Keepers Fielding - not good enough and has proven that over a number of years with us. Giefer - A backup for years who has so far been very unsteady. Full Backs Golbourne - Has supposed experience at this level. But that experience was 2 years at Barnsley finishing 21st in both years and at Wolves where he only played in half of their wins. Matthews - Possibly one of the worst players to ever don the shirt. Little - Never proven himself at this level. Centre Backs Flint - Was an awful player when he first joined, got better in the promotion season, and has been at best, decent in 2 championship seasons. Wright - Probably the best player we actually own. Magnusson - Unproven and expensive foreigner, who to date has shown himself to have very little composure on the ball, regularly lumping it to no-one (but he can throw it long and is a good twitterer, so that makes him good in some eyes!) Centre Midfield Hegeler - Another player who was mainly a backup in Germany (only started 30 games in the last 5 years). Looks to have composure but is possibly too laid back for the pace and tempo of this league. Brownhill - Played League 1 for Preston, who were happy to let him go on loan once they reached the Championship, and then let his contract run down. O'Neil - Yes, he has proven top end experience in this league, but is clearly beyond his best years and has looked very suspect in most appearances this season. Smith - Very good in League 1. Didn't excel himself in his first season in the Championship and been injured all of this. Pack - In my opinion, our best midfielder, but is he top end Championship, probably not. Reid - Holds some kind of sign over the fans who think he is better than he actually is. Not good enough for this level. Wide players Bryan - Has had 1 half decent season in 5 years - and that was in league 1. Not good enough at this level. Patterson - A couple of seasons as a semi-regular for Forest, who were then happy to loan him out to a fellow Championship club. O'Dowda - 42 starts in League 2, and clearly not up to this level of football just yet. Cotterill - Yes, experienced at this level and should be a decent signing, but another player whom a fellow Championship club are willing to loan out to a rival. Strikers Abraham - Has done very well. Wilbraham - Another who has never been proven at this level, even in his prime. Djuric - A 26 year old who has mostly been knocking around Serie B clubs, and was still being loaned out by his parent Serie B club at the age of 24. Engvall - An enigma Taylor - Another 26 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues, and even when out of contract in the summer did not receive any offers from this level. Tomlin - We all knew what we were getting. So, please can someone tell me again that this is one of the best squads we've ever had. My opinion is that that is laughable. We have only a handful of players who are 'decent' at this level, and a lot who are either a) unproven, b) past their best or c) not good enough as proven by the fact other teams in this league didn't want them. This squad of players are simply not good enough at this level. So, where do we look for who is responsible for this? Lee Johnson is clearly not up to this job and he MUST go. But he is more than welcome to take Des Taylor & Mark Ashton with him. We have assembled a squad which is not good enough for this league, and dismantled one that might have been (Freeman, Ayling & Cunningham should never have been allowed to leave). So, have a think about when you are shouting Johnson Out - and consider putting Ashton & Taylor into the mix as well. And please, don't tell me again that this is a well-assembled squad of players who are under-performing - most of this squad is not good enough for this level of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londoner Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Remember Mcinness? Morris Bates Fontaine Wilson Pearson Mcgivern etc etc. Dire side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Harry said: We've been hearing this from a lot of people for a long time. That this squad of players is the best we've had in a long time and we should not be anywhere near the bottom of the league. Hopefully some people are starting to wise up a bit and beginning to realise that these are not the great group of players you all think they are. Keepers Fielding - not good enough and has proven that over a number of years with us. Giefer - A backup for years who has so far been very unsteady. Full Backs Golbourne - Has supposed experience at this level. But that experience was 2 years at Barnsley finishing 21st in both years and at Wolves where he only played in half of their wins. Matthews - Possibly one of the worst players to ever don the shirt. Little - Never proven himself at this level. Centre Backs Flint - Was an awful player when he first joined, got better in the promotion season, and has been at best, decent in 2 championship seasons. Wright - Probably the best player we actually own. Magnusson - Unproven and expensive foreigner, who to date has shown himself to have very little composure on the ball, regularly lumping it to no-one (but he can throw it long and is a good twitterer, so that makes him good in some eyes!) Centre Midfield Hegeler - Another player who was mainly a backup in Germany (only started 30 games in the last 5 years). Looks to have composure but is possibly too laid back for the pace and tempo of this league. Brownhill - Played League 1 for Preston, who were happy to let him go on loan once they reached the Championship, and then let his contract run down. O'Neil - Yes, he has proven top end experience in this league, but is clearly beyond his best years and has looked very suspect in most appearances this season. Smith - Very good in League 1. Didn't excel himself in his first season in the Championship and been injured all of this. Pack - In my opinion, our best midfielder, but is he top end Championship, probably not. Reid - Holds some kind of sign over the fans who think he is better than he actually is. Not good enough for this level. Wide players Bryan - Has had 1 half decent season in 5 years - and that was in league 1. Not good enough at this level. Patterson - A couple of seasons as a semi-regular for Forest, who were then happy to loan him out to a fellow Championship club. O'Dowda - 42 starts in League 2, and clearly not up to this level of football just yet. Cotterill - Yes, experienced at this level and should be a decent signing, but another player whom a fellow Championship club are willing to loan out to a rival. Strikers Abraham - Has done very well. Wilbraham - Another who has never been proven at this level, even in his prime. Djuric - A 26 year old who has mostly been knocking around Serie B clubs, and was still being loaned out by his parent Serie B club at the age of 24. Engvall - An enigma Taylor - Another 26 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues, and even when out of contract in the summer did not receive any offers from this level. Tomlin - We all knew what we were getting. So, please can someone tell me again that this is one of the best squads we've ever had. My opinion is that that is laughable. We have only a handful of players who are 'decent' at this level, and a lot who are either a) unproven, b) past their best or c) not good enough as proven by the fact other teams in this league didn't want them. This squad of players are simply not good enough at this level. So, where do we look for who is responsible for this? Lee Johnson is clearly not up to this job and he MUST go. But he is more than welcome to take Des Taylor & Mark Ashton with him. We have assembled a squad which is not good enough for this league, and dismantled one that might have been (Freeman, Ayling & Cunningham should never have been allowed to leave). So, have a think about when you are shouting Johnson Out - and consider putting Ashton & Taylor into the mix as well. And please, don't tell me again that this is a well-assembled squad of players who are under-performing - most of this squad is not good enough for this level of football. And while you are about it put The Board into that mix as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 This squad is man for man almost the best championship squad we had, our league position is down to 1 man only and that's the head coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think most fans of mid to lower table championship teams could describe their team like this - take Ipswich for example, what differentiates the stable clubs is a Manager who can knit their best qualities together. You just have to look at the impact Freeman is making at QPR - I'm sure you would also have said he flattered to deceive and yet being given the "free" number 10 role he is excelling. Our problem is our formation and tactics - not our individuals. And you will never convince me that Adam Matthews is worse than Nicky Hunt - remember Leeds away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
city1983 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, Harry said: We've been hearing this from a lot of people for a long time. That this squad of players is the best we've had in a long time and we should not be anywhere near the bottom of the league. Hopefully some people are starting to wise up a bit and beginning to realise that these are not the great group of players you all think they are. Keepers Fielding - not good enough and has proven that over a number of years with us. Giefer - A backup for years who has so far been very unsteady. Full Backs Golbourne - Has supposed experience at this level. But that experience was 2 years at Barnsley finishing 21st in both years and at Wolves where he only played in half of their wins. Matthews - Possibly one of the worst players to ever don the shirt. Little - Never proven himself at this level. Centre Backs Flint - Was an awful player when he first joined, got better in the promotion season, and has been at best, decent in 2 championship seasons. Wright - Probably the best player we actually own. Magnusson - Unproven and expensive foreigner, who to date has shown himself to have very little composure on the ball, regularly lumping it to no-one (but he can throw it long and is a good twitterer, so that makes him good in some eyes!) Centre Midfield Hegeler - Another player who was mainly a backup in Germany (only started 30 games in the last 5 years). Looks to have composure but is possibly too laid back for the pace and tempo of this league. Brownhill - Played League 1 for Preston, who were happy to let him go on loan once they reached the Championship, and then let his contract run down. O'Neil - Yes, he has proven top end experience in this league, but is clearly beyond his best years and has looked very suspect in most appearances this season. Smith - Very good in League 1. Didn't excel himself in his first season in the Championship and been injured all of this. Pack - In my opinion, our best midfielder, but is he top end Championship, probably not. Reid - Holds some kind of sign over the fans who think he is better than he actually is. Not good enough for this level. Wide players Bryan - Has had 1 half decent season in 5 years - and that was in league 1. Not good enough at this level. Patterson - A couple of seasons as a semi-regular for Forest, who were then happy to loan him out to a fellow Championship club. O'Dowda - 42 starts in League 2, and clearly not up to this level of football just yet. Cotterill - Yes, experienced at this level and should be a decent signing, but another player whom a fellow Championship club are willing to loan out to a rival. Strikers Abraham - Has done very well. Wilbraham - Another who has never been proven at this level, even in his prime. Djuric - A 26 year old who has mostly been knocking around Serie B clubs, and was still being loaned out by his parent Serie B club at the age of 24. Engvall - An enigma Taylor - Another 26 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues, and even when out of contract in the summer did not receive any offers from this level. Tomlin - We all knew what we were getting. So, please can someone tell me again that this is one of the best squads we've ever had. My opinion is that that is laughable. We have only a handful of players who are 'decent' at this level, and a lot who are either a) unproven, b) past their best or c) not good enough as proven by the fact other teams in this league didn't want them. This squad of players are simply not good enough at this level. So, where do we look for who is responsible for this? Lee Johnson is clearly not up to this job and he MUST go. But he is more than welcome to take Des Taylor & Mark Ashton with him. We have assembled a squad which is not good enough for this league, and dismantled one that might have been (Freeman, Ayling & Cunningham should never have been allowed to leave). So, have a think about when you are shouting Johnson Out - and consider putting Ashton & Taylor into the mix as well. And please, don't tell me again that this is a well-assembled squad of players who are under-performing - most of this squad is not good enough for this level of football. I find it hard to disagree with most of that. We now have a bloated squad of average to poor players again. And a clown of a manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUTOR Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 The players have completely under performed and this is not just down to tactics. They deserve the same amount of stick as lee johnson, there was no fight tonight. People ringing the praises of Lee Tomlin... Why? He's been shit for months, same as everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: I think most fans of mid to lower table championship teams could describe their team like this - take Ipswich for example, what differentiates the stable clubs is a Manager who can knit their best qualities together. You just have to look at the impact Freeman is making at QPR - I'm sure you would also have said he flattered to deceive and yet being given the "free" number 10 role he is excelling. Our problem is our formation and tactics - not our individuals. And you will never convince me that Adam Matthews is worse than Nicky Hunt - remember Leeds away? Erm Freeman is wearing Number 2 for QPR...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, nickolas said: Erm Freeman is wearing Number 2 for QPR...... And nickolas has an "h" in it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityexile Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I take the point, but this is the team that beat Fulham 4-0 not all that long ago. No stronger really in paper. It is what you get out of the parts that counts. 1Fielding 2Little 4Flint 23Magnusson 3Bryan 21Pack 14Reid 20Paterson Freeman 10Tomlin 9Abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, Harry said: We've been hearing this from a lot of people for a long time. That this squad of players is the best we've had in a long time and we should not be anywhere near the bottom of the league. Hopefully some people are starting to wise up a bit and beginning to realise that these are not the great group of players you all think they are. Keepers Fielding - not good enough and has proven that over a number of years with us. Giefer - A backup for years who has so far been very unsteady. Full Backs Golbourne - Has supposed experience at this level. But that experience was 2 years at Barnsley finishing 21st in both years and at Wolves where he only played in half of their wins. Matthews - Possibly one of the worst players to ever don the shirt. Little - Never proven himself at this level. Centre Backs Flint - Was an awful player when he first joined, got better in the promotion season, and has been at best, decent in 2 championship seasons. Wright - Probably the best player we actually own. Magnusson - Unproven and expensive foreigner, who to date has shown himself to have very little composure on the ball, regularly lumping it to no-one (but he can throw it long and is a good twitterer, so that makes him good in some eyes!) Centre Midfield Hegeler - Another player who was mainly a backup in Germany (only started 30 games in the last 5 years). Looks to have composure but is possibly too laid back for the pace and tempo of this league. Brownhill - Played League 1 for Preston, who were happy to let him go on loan once they reached the Championship, and then let his contract run down. O'Neil - Yes, he has proven top end experience in this league, but is clearly beyond his best years and has looked very suspect in most appearances this season. Smith - Very good in League 1. Didn't excel himself in his first season in the Championship and been injured all of this. Pack - In my opinion, our best midfielder, but is he top end Championship, probably not. Reid - Holds some kind of sign over the fans who think he is better than he actually is. Not good enough for this level. Wide players Bryan - Has had 1 half decent season in 5 years - and that was in league 1. Not good enough at this level. Patterson - A couple of seasons as a semi-regular for Forest, who were then happy to loan him out to a fellow Championship club. O'Dowda - 42 starts in League 2, and clearly not up to this level of football just yet. Cotterill - Yes, experienced at this level and should be a decent signing, but another player whom a fellow Championship club are willing to loan out to a rival. Strikers Abraham - Has done very well. Wilbraham - Another who has never been proven at this level, even in his prime. Djuric - A 26 year old who has mostly been knocking around Serie B clubs, and was still being loaned out by his parent Serie B club at the age of 24. Engvall - An enigma Taylor - Another 26 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues, and even when out of contract in the summer did not receive any offers from this level. Tomlin - We all knew what we were getting. So, please can someone tell me again that this is one of the best squads we've ever had. My opinion is that that is laughable. We have only a handful of players who are 'decent' at this level, and a lot who are either a) unproven, b) past their best or c) not good enough as proven by the fact other teams in this league didn't want them. This squad of players are simply not good enough at this level. So, where do we look for who is responsible for this? Lee Johnson is clearly not up to this job and he MUST go. But he is more than welcome to take Des Taylor & Mark Ashton with him. We have assembled a squad which is not good enough for this league, and dismantled one that might have been (Freeman, Ayling & Cunningham should never have been allowed to leave). So, have a think about when you are shouting Johnson Out - and consider putting Ashton & Taylor into the mix as well. And please, don't tell me again that this is a well-assembled squad of players who are under-performing - most of this squad is not good enough for this level of football. I completely agree with this and posted something similar before Christmas. None of our squad would get into a top team at present. That speaks volumes as to the calibre of the players. Woeful. The club don't have the first clue about what it takes to get out of this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the frampton balti Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Football= team game . we have no idea how good these players are . but they are not playing as a team and they have no confidence. they need looking after by a management that they respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Dawe Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, cityexile said: I take the point, but this is the team that beat Fulham 4-0 not all that long ago. No stronger really in paper. It is what you get out of the parts that counts. 1Fielding 2Little 4Flint 23Magnusson 3Bryan 21Pack 14Reid 20Paterson Freeman 10Tomlin 9Abraham Seven of our L1 chaps! LJ can get a tune out of L1 players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 17 minutes ago, Monkeh said: This squad is man for man almost the best championship squad we had, our league position is down to 1 man only and that's the head coach Nowhere near. How many of this squad would get in the first 11 in a top 10 championship team? We had a squad only a few years ago that finished 4th, 10th, 10th & 10th in this league. This bunch of players are nowhere near that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, cityexile said: I take the point, but this is the team that beat Fulham 4-0 not all that long ago. No stronger really in paper. It is what you get out of the parts that counts. All teams on a very good day can beat other teams on a very bad day. That was what happened at Fulham. We've not played well all season but early on we got some results. These players are not good enough, as well as the manager, ceo & chief scout who assembled them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Harry said: Nowhere near. How many of this squad would get in the first 11 in a top 10 championship team? We had a squad only a few years ago that finished 4th, 10th, 10th & 10th in this league. This bunch of players are nowhere near that level. Although I see the point you're making, there are two key facets - The championship is arguably now of a higher standard, so it's not 'apples with apples' - That squad (God love them) to a man other than Orr, went backwards after us. That says they weren't that good as players individually but GJ moulded them into a helluva team Now relate that to now. Player for player, I think the squad is better than 2008-10. I think the standard is better, but I think a decent manager should get a comfortable 10th place or so. It is the best squad, but the teams worse - and that's really at one persons door (who it had been acknowledged has the final say on transfers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 18 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: I think most fans of mid to lower table championship teams could describe their team like this - take Ipswich for example, what differentiates the stable clubs is a Manager who can knit their best qualities together. You just have to look at the impact Freeman is making at QPR - I'm sure you would also have said he flattered to deceive and yet being given the "free" number 10 role he is excelling. Our problem is our formation and tactics - not our individuals. And you will never convince me that Adam Matthews is worse than Nicky Hunt - remember Leeds away? A lot of our fans have seriously misjudged Freeman in my opinion. Yes, he didn't score many but he created a lot of chances. Note how our attacking play and chance creation has significantly dried up sine he departed. Ha ha, yes, there's always Hunt - but his was ability related, Matthews is ability AND will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, Londoner said: Remember Mcinness? Morris Bates Fontaine Wilson Pearson Mcgivern etc etc. Dire side. Mmmm... you've neatly backed up my point there Londoner. Guess who was "consulting" with the club in regard to player recruitment at that time. You will find a common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldstandrobin Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, 054123 said: I completely agree with this and posted something similar before Christmas. None of our squad would get into a top team at present. That speaks volumes as to the calibre of the players. Woeful. The club don't have the first clue about what it takes to get out of this league. They do...............but in reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, 054123 said: I completely agree with this and posted something similar before Christmas. None of our squad would get into a top team at present. That speaks volumes as to the calibre of the players. Woeful. The club don't have the first clue about what it takes to get out of this league. Dont bank on it. We are getting out of this league very soon the way its going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: Although I see the point you're making, there are two key facets - The championship is arguably now of a higher standard, so it's not 'apples with apples' - That squad (God love them) to a man other than Orr, went backwards after us. That says they weren't that good as players individually but GJ moulded them into a helluva team Now relate that to now. Player for player, I think the squad is better than 2008-10. I think the standard is better, but I think a decent manager should get a comfortable 10th place or so. It is the best squad, but the teams worse - and that's really at one persons door (who it had been acknowledged has the final say on transfers) 100% it's not comparing apples for apples, so no-one can say this is the best squad we've had in this league. All we can do is compare our squad with the other teams in this division at THIS time. Very few of our squad would be a regular in a top half team. That to me does not mean we have a good squad for this level. We do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Disagree with a fair bit. Magnusson is a centre back. Yes he may lack composure with his distribution at times but he's a centre back. It's a bit like damning a striker for being a poor tackler. If the midfield is abject he has little option. Hegeler - bad, bad game tonight. Not been below 7/10 before then. Let's not chuck the baby outta the bath water. Brownhill - significant improvement. Good player. Cotterill - really good player. Don't care another championship side let him go - we let Ayling go, Cunningham go, Freeman go.. ask the respective club's fans what they think. Furthermore, are we seriously beyong buying or loaning players from this division anyway... seriously?! Wilbraham - underused this season. Has been good when played. Djuric - are you kidding.. he looks the tits? Taylor - dreadful first touch. But one, arguable two goals and two assists so far... and you're disappointed?! I kinda agree, the squad is overrated, but it's absolute bull to suggest this squad is not midtable at very worst with competent management. Yes I think expectations got away, but no excuse for LJ... he's now claiming it's squad cohesion the issue... you bloody bought all these players had the turnover and didn't organise bonding activities. You have been here long enough to get the squad bonding. Tough if you only twigged tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: And nickolas has an "h" in it... Not when its taken already so this was the nearest i could get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 @Harry the problem is again as Owers pointed out, in the first half Djuric had one header and should have scored, but we continued to play it from the back and Fulham showed exactly how to press and kept putting us under pressure, why wasn't the ball lumped towards him a bit more to relieve the pressure, we have Taylor who again as Owers pointed out usually plays on the shoulder of the last defender and we pushed him out wide and he mentioned other players poorly deployed. The point being you give yourself even less of a chance if you play players out of position which LJ does. And as we know Mr Warnock for instance is not adverse to pumping long balls to big target men to relieve pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 35 minutes ago, Harry said: We've been hearing this from a lot of people for a long time. That this squad of players is the best we've had in a long time and we should not be anywhere near the bottom of the league. Hopefully some people are starting to wise up a bit and beginning to realise that these are not the great group of players you all think they are. Keepers Fielding - not good enough and has proven that over a number of years with us. Giefer - A backup for years who has so far been very unsteady. Full Backs Golbourne - Has supposed experience at this level. But that experience was 2 years at Barnsley finishing 21st in both years and at Wolves where he only played in half of their wins. Matthews - Possibly one of the worst players to ever don the shirt. Little - Never proven himself at this level. Centre Backs Flint - Was an awful player when he first joined, got better in the promotion season, and has been at best, decent in 2 championship seasons. Wright - Probably the best player we actually own. Magnusson - Unproven and expensive foreigner, who to date has shown himself to have very little composure on the ball, regularly lumping it to no-one (but he can throw it long and is a good twitterer, so that makes him good in some eyes!) Centre Midfield Hegeler - Another player who was mainly a backup in Germany (only started 30 games in the last 5 years). Looks to have composure but is possibly too laid back for the pace and tempo of this league. Brownhill - Played League 1 for Preston, who were happy to let him go on loan once they reached the Championship, and then let his contract run down. O'Neil - Yes, he has proven top end experience in this league, but is clearly beyond his best years and has looked very suspect in most appearances this season. Smith - Very good in League 1. Didn't excel himself in his first season in the Championship and been injured all of this. Pack - In my opinion, our best midfielder, but is he top end Championship, probably not. Reid - Holds some kind of sign over the fans who think he is better than he actually is. Not good enough for this level. Wide players Bryan - Has had 1 half decent season in 5 years - and that was in league 1. Not good enough at this level. Patterson - A couple of seasons as a semi-regular for Forest, who were then happy to loan him out to a fellow Championship club. O'Dowda - 42 starts in League 2, and clearly not up to this level of football just yet. Cotterill - Yes, experienced at this level and should be a decent signing, but another player whom a fellow Championship club are willing to loan out to a rival. Strikers Abraham - Has done very well. Wilbraham - Another who has never been proven at this level, even in his prime. Djuric - A 26 year old who has mostly been knocking around Serie B clubs, and was still being loaned out by his parent Serie B club at the age of 24. Engvall - An enigma Taylor - Another 26 year old who has knocked around the lower leagues, and even when out of contract in the summer did not receive any offers from this level. Tomlin - We all knew what we were getting. So, please can someone tell me again that this is one of the best squads we've ever had. My opinion is that that is laughable. We have only a handful of players who are 'decent' at this level, and a lot who are either a) unproven, b) past their best or c) not good enough as proven by the fact other teams in this league didn't want them. This squad of players are simply not good enough at this level. So, where do we look for who is responsible for this? Lee Johnson is clearly not up to this job and he MUST go. But he is more than welcome to take Des Taylor & Mark Ashton with him. We have assembled a squad which is not good enough for this league, and dismantled one that might have been (Freeman, Ayling & Cunningham should never have been allowed to leave). So, have a think about when you are shouting Johnson Out - and consider putting Ashton & Taylor into the mix as well. And please, don't tell me again that this is a well-assembled squad of players who are under-performing - most of this squad is not good enough for this level of football. Having supported the team in all four divisions over forty years my opinion given your miserly appraisal of these players abilities this is still the best squad for decades. It is however Managed./ Coached by somebody who bemuses myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiale Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Surely it's how we use this squad - the starting line up today had Djuric and Taylor upfront (supposedly though it looked Taylor was playing a wide midfield role most of the game) both these players may prove to be solid championship goalscorers, but right now they have had a good start but are still unproven at this level to a large degree. So where are the goals coming from in his team selection tonight ? All season Bryan 1 and Flint 2 - that's it. LJ sets up to not lose, and the worse the results the more defensive he sets us up and it continues to not work, we cannot defend as we invite to much pressure, and cannot score as we have no real play makers or goals throughout the squad - it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 This is not the best squad we've ever had @Harry - I agree with a fair bit of what you say, but I also feel that you're judging all of our players on a bad run, that is, they aren't playing near average, let alone their best. I think a different manager would get some, most (who knows) playing better than they are at present. Some of these players will come out the other side and restore your faith in their ability. But I get where you are, and happy if you totally disagree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Harry said: 100% it's not comparing apples for apples, so no-one can say this is the best squad we've had in this league. All we can do is compare our squad with the other teams in this division at THIS time. Very few of our squad would be a regular in a top half team. That to me does not mean we have a good squad for this level. We do not. Ok, but at the same token I could go through the 2008 team on this basis: Basso: Non league prior Orr: Failed midfielder released by Newcastle McAllister: Played Scots prem for a second level team (ie not old firm) there And so on. Point is that those finishes were attained with a team who player for player were better than the sum of their parts and would have been seen as a bottom side at that time. I think it's reasonable to say that player for player, the players on average are better than the 21st best players in the best elevens at this time. In 2008, they probably weren't but GJ delivered a miracle by blending them. I don't think it's too much to ask for a manager who signed 8 of tonight's starting 11 to blend them into a team better than the sum of their parts. If you say that they are (maybe) the 16th best group of players, then the fact he's chosen and shaped this group should lead to an expectation of mid table..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 10 minutes ago, 29AR said: Disagree with a fair bit. Magnusson is a centre back. Yes he may lack composure with his distribution at times but he's a centre back. It's a bit like damning a striker for being a poor tackler. If the midfield is abject he has little option. Hegeler - bad, bad game tonight. Not been below 7/10 before then. Let's not chuck the baby outta the bath water. Brownhill - significant improvement. Good player. Cotterill - really good player. Don't care another championship side let him go - we let Ayling go, Cunningham go, Freeman go.. ask the respective club's fans what they think. Furthermore, are we seriously beyong buying or loaning players from this division anyway... seriously?! Wilbraham - underused this season. Has been good when played. Djuric - are you kidding.. he looks the tits? Taylor - dreadful first touch. But one, arguable two goals and two assists so far... and you're disappointed?! I kinda agree, the squad is overrated, but it's absolute bull to suggest this squad is not midtable at very worst with competent management. Yes I think expectations got away, but no excuse for LJ... he's now claiming it's squad cohesion the issue... you bloody bought all these players had the turnover and didn't organise bonding activities. You have been here long enough to get the squad bonding. Tough if you only twigged tonight. Of course, some of you will disagree on certain players and their respective abilities, and I am not in any way suggesting that the likes of Cotterill re not good players, but what I am saying is that when you bring it down to the brass tacs, this squad is seriously overrated by many of our fans. Yes, a decent manager would certainly get more out of them (of that I do not disagree), but they are still nowhere near being a good squad for this level. I'm not writing off Magnusson, Djuric or Taylor by the way (I think they'll all be decent signings), but I am questioning how many clubs at this level they would currently be a regular starter for? Not a lot is the answer. This squad is not good. Yes it should be performing better, but let's stop kidding ourselves into thinking it's a good squad, it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordy62 Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 I said in the match day thread that we should stop judging the players until they're being coached by someone else. If I were coach I could make a front two of Ronaldo & Messi look pretty ordinary. LJ's doing a very good job of that. Flint as an example... we know he can be much better than he's currently showing. Ditto Tomlin and many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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