glynriley Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 Our keeper couldn't catch a cold. Our full backs can't defend. Midfield don't tackle. Centre halts get pulled about. Strikers get no service so ill give them the benefit of the doubt. Other than that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lucan said: We are averaging 1.3 goals a game in the league since Freeman's last game for City (Reading) We averaged 1.32 in the games prior. So the stats don't back you up there. I said the 'chances' have dried up - not the goals. Freeman, whilst he had certain faults, was very creative and would create numerous opportunities in games - the fact we didn't always score them so he didn't get his 'assist' is not the point here. We are a significantly less creative team without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Harry said: Of course, some of you will disagree on certain players and their respective abilities, and I am not in any way suggesting that the likes of Cotterill re not good players, but what I am saying is that when you bring it down to the brass tacs, this squad is seriously overrated by many of our fans. Yes, a decent manager would certainly get more out of them (of that I do not disagree), but they are still nowhere near being a good squad for this level. I'm not writing off Magnusson, Djuric or Taylor by the way (I think they'll all be decent signings), but I am questioning how many clubs at this level they would currently be a regular starter for? Not a lot is the answer. This squad is not good. Yes it should be performing better, but let's stop kidding ourselves into thinking it's a good squad, it's not. I totally agree, it is overrated, but any manager who cannot guide this side to 12th or above in first season (or half) and higher again in the second is beyond incompetent. There's another step to take back, we are below Burton Albion. Individually don't think we've any player that wouldn't make their match day squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 The table doesn't lie . Our squad is shite . Not quite the worst in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, shelts said: The table doesn't lie . Our squad is shite . Not quite the worst in the league. Disagree and feel it can We got relegated; bottom by 10 points and 15 from safety with: Heaton, Baldock, Skuse, Adomah and Cunningham. All have shown aptitude at this level or beyond. That's gk, a defender, 2 midfielders and an attacker as a strong spine, then previously competent players such as Pearson, Kilkenny, Howard, Elliot etc added to the mix. That was a stronger squad than performed. Management counts for a helluva lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man in the middle Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 It's a f@cking mess, Clueless management and now players who don't give a toss, only one way for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, 29AR said: I totally agree, it is overrated, but any manager who cannot guide this side to 12th or above in first season (or half) and higher again in the second is beyond incompetent. There's another step to take back, we are below Burton Albion. Individually don't think we've any player that wouldn't make their match day squad. Burton - I'd take Kightly, Murphy, Irvine, McFadzean, Dyer and ANY of their goalkeepers ahead of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, 29AR said: Of course it can. We got relegated: bottom by 10 points and 15 from safety with Heaton, Baldock, Skuse, Adomah and Cunningham. All have shown aptitude at this level or beyond. That's gk, a defender, 2 midfielders and an attacker as a strong spine, then previously competent players such as Pearson, Kilkenny, Howard, Elliot etc added to the mix. That was a stronger squad than performed. Management counts for a helluva lot. O ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollydog Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 OP Is right. Player for player Fulham were better in every position. The number of individual errors made by players week in, week out is evidence that they are not good enough at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, Harry said: Burton - I'd take Kightly, Murphy, Irvine, McFadzean, Dyer and ANY of their goalkeepers ahead of our players. Can't agree. In their unit perhaps, but that's down to management. Don't think - gk aside - the individual attributes of those players are that much greater. It's a bit like the Woodford situation. He looked great at Scunthorpe but individually he's quite crap. A good manager builds the right team and gets the best out of each player. That's what other teams are doing and we seriously are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Lucan said: According to http://www.squawka.com/players/luke-freeman/stats#performance-score#bristol-city-(current)#football-league-championship#10#season-2016/2017#657#all-matches#1-30#by-match He has created far less chances than Gary O'Neil this season (for comparison) I dont doubt that Freeman has qualities, but let's not pretend he was anything other than sub par for City over the last 1.5 seasons You are trying to search for stats to prove me wrong whilst not understanding the point I am making. It's not the assist, or the final ball created for a chance, it's the pass prior or possibly 2nd pass prior to that or possibly the movement, the threat, the positioning, occupying the opposition etc, that helped make us more creative. We are a less creative team without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, 29AR said: Can't agree. In their unit perhaps, but that's down to management. Don't think - gk aside - the individual attributes of those players are that much greater. It's a bit like the Woodford situation. He looked great at Scunthorpe but individually he's quite crap. A good manager builds the right team and gets the best out of each player. That's what other teams are doing and we seriously are not. Yes I agree that the manager should get more from individuals and build a better unit, but of the players I mentioned (and again this is of course down to personal opinion), Kightly is better than Bryan, Dyer is better than Cotterill, Irvine is better than Hegeler, Murphy is better than Brownhill, any of their keepers are better, and McFadzean and Flint are possibly on a par. Our squad is not that much better than Burton's. It's scandalous how we've pieced together such a squad, and how we keep kidding ourselves that they are capable of mid to upper table in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Lucan said: We are less creative despite him not assisting or creating chances, and the fact we are scoring at the same rate as before? Can I presume you are saying we are having less shots on goal now then? Or is that not what you mean either? Also I would argue, if all this creativity he was bringing didnt actual result in more goals, then wasn't it all a bit pointless? surrounded by lesser players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Lucan said: Right, so Freeman was creating all these chances (that don't register statistically) but for some unexplained reason our players couldn't convert them. Since has left we have lost his creative spark but somehow managed to keep scoring at the same rate as before. These lesser players it seems are able to take chances created by other players, but not St Luke of Freeman? Magical! You're pushing hard aren't you my Lord. Quite simply, what I am saying is that we were a better team with him in it. You won't find stats to back that up, it's my opinion based on my analysis of games. Freeman was one of very few in our current squad who are (or could be) above average championship players. We are a lesser squad without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Thing is @Harry...we both know we aren't much better than Burton in 'set up'. We've only just got started in the last couple years. We may have a billionaire owner and a huge shiny stadium, but that means jack shit if the infra structure is only just starting. LJ is unproven. MA Heavily involved in recruitment at lower league level. Worked with SC during the summer of 2014 getting players in...we did well winning league 1, hence his appointment. DT Mainly involved in recruiting development squad type players, with a good knowledge of that type abroad. So we've assembled a team of people to work together using the blueprint set out by the board. All unproven at this level. A team of people unproven and pretty much 1 to 2 years into developing this 'long term project. Great in principle to have people working together...but what have they done at this level? You can't blame any of them. They are all trying. You can't blame the majority of the players...the majority try their best. The buck stops at who makes these appointments. Anyone saying bring in another manager...it may stop relegation....but in the long term, a whole bunch of improvements need to be made, or learnt very quickly. If we go down, there will be no one to blame but the board and SL for underestimating the quality of this league and what is needed. Sacking the Coach isn't the answer...bringing in the right people is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderingred Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I couldnt disagree any more with the op. All hes done is portray each player in the worst possible light. I could rip apart our title winning squad in a similar fashion: JET: Failed at Championship level. Freeman: Unproven, lack of experience but promising. Linked with Championship clubs but none took a punt on him. Wilbraham: Past it. Ayling: Cast off from Yeovil, unproven. Korey Smith: Achieved nothing at Oldham, just warmed the bench at Norwich. Flint: Dire under SOD. Wade Elliott: A long way past his best. I could go on.. Yet Cotterill turned these players into our first group of champions in 60 years. Look at the squads of teams like Ipswich and Barnsley who are safely mid table. Can you really see a lot there that we dont have? There is more than enough in our team to finish solidly mid table under good leadership. If we get relegated, Im fairly sure that a large chunk of our squad will become steady championship players elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Harry said: Nowhere near. How many of this squad would get in the first 11 in a top 10 championship team? We had a squad only a few years ago that finished 4th, 10th, 10th & 10th in this league. This bunch of players are nowhere near that level. Bryan, Brownhill, & Tammy, would get in ours the rest wouldn't get a look in for being ether too old or too shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rascal said: Bryan, Brownhill, & Tammy, would get in ours the rest wouldn't get a look in for being ether too old or too shit. Don't think that's quite fair. In terms of squads i'm sure there is far more than that. I don't take nearly as much of a keen interest in Barnsley as you do in Bristol City so won't comment as to which ones specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: Don't think that's quite fair. In terms of squads i'm sure there is far more than that. I don't take nearly as much of a keen interest in Barnsley as you do in Bristol City so won't comment as to which ones specifically. I was going on starting 11 as he did say how many of our squad would get in the starting 11 of a top 10 side, besides theirs no point having any of your players as our squad players as they're on far too much money for us to have as bit part men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, Rascal said: I was going on starting 11 as he did say how many of our squad would get in the starting 11 of a top 10 side, besides theirs no point having any of your players as our squad players as they're on far too much money for us to have as bit part men. Cant wait for the meltdown when we sign Yiadom in the summer. Best left back I've seen this season and he's a right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 20 minutes ago, Rascal said: I was going on starting 11, no point having your players as squad player they're on far too much money for us to have as bit part men. The thread is about squads but ok. Based on your game vs Brighton, and bearing in mind i'm no expert on your squad, I think there's a case for the following from our squad to be in your 11 for that game based on their ability. 1Davies 29Jones 4Roberts 5MacDonald (Wright) 17Yiadom 15Watkins 10Moncur (Tomlin) 36James (Hegeler) 40Kent (Cotterill) 20Bradshaw (Abraham) 32Armstrong I think that's reasonably fair, I haven't seen much of Barnsley so my analysis is mostly as a result on my knowledge of those players previously (Matty James for example). I think there's a case for either Taylor or Djuric over Armstrong but neither have had a run of starts where I can say that with confidence. I picked Cotterill over Kent based on experience alone, I like Kent. My inclusion of Tomlin is based on him at his best, he really hasn't been at his best - or had an opportunity to show it - this season. What stands out for me though is how much stronger your defence is. Only Bailey Wright gets in. Overall, you clearly have a good side and buy very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 minute ago, Carey 6 said: Cant wait for the meltdown when we sign Yiadom in the summer. Best left back I've seen this season and he's a right back. He's a quality player, he'll probably end up at a team looking to challenge for a top six spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: The thread is about squads but ok. Based on your game vs Brighton, and bearing in mind i'm no expert on your squad, I think there's a case for the following from our squad to be in your 11 for that game based on their ability. 1Davies 29Jones 4Roberts 5MacDonald (Wright) 17Yiadom 15Watkins 10MoncurSubstituted for (Tomlin) 36James (Hegeler) 40Kent (Cotterill) 20Bradshaw (Abraham) 32Armstrong I think that's reasonably fair, I haven't seen much of Barnsley so my analysis is mostly as a result on my knowledge of those players previously (Matty James for example). I think there's a case for either Taylor or Djuric over Armstrong but neither have had a run of starts where I can say that with confidence. I picked Cotterill over Kent based on experience alone, I like Kent. My inclusion of Tomlin is based on him at his best, he really hasn't been at his best - or had an opportunity to show it - this season. What stands out for me though is how much stronger your defence is. Only Bailey Wright gets in. Overall, you clearly have a good side and buy very well! Josh Scowen, Alex Mowatt, & Matty James are our first choice central midfielders, and in my opinion Scowen is the best player we have at the club wouldn't swap him for any of yours, Cotterill wouldn't get on our bench, Bailey Wright is a class act but not better than MacDonald or Roberts, I picked players from your squad I feel would get into our starting 11 the three I picked are the only players we'd be interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Harry said: Of course, some of you will disagree on certain players and their respective abilities, and I am not in any way suggesting that the likes of Cotterill re not good players, but what I am saying is that when you bring it down to the brass tacs, this squad is seriously overrated by many of our fans. Yes, a decent manager would certainly get more out of them (of that I do not disagree), but they are still nowhere near being a good squad for this level. I'm not writing off Magnusson, Djuric or Taylor by the way (I think they'll all be decent signings), but I am questioning how many clubs at this level they would currently be a regular starter for? Not a lot is the answer. This squad is not good. Yes it should be performing better, but let's stop kidding ourselves into thinking it's a good squad, it's not. Exactly. What is that Lansdown is trying to achieve?? Surely the goal has to be promotion, whatever league you're in (save division 1), the squad isn't good enough for top 10, forget anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 hours ago, spudski said: You can't blame any of them. They are all trying. You can't blame the majority of the players...the majority try their best Honestly if last night was the majority of them trying "their best" we really may as well give up now. My vocabulary is pretty extensive but I'm not even going to try and pretty it up: last night was a fu c kin g shambles. That was a team with no heart, no desire and no idea what to do to produce anything approaching what this level of football requires. Last night was the night that LJ lost me I'm afraid. We deserve so much better. @Harry you're right in so many ways about the squad but it can be organised so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 Laughable thread title after last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 It is the most expensive squad we've ever had that achieved or in this case, will achieve relegation. The smell of failure has been in my nostrils since October and whilst my love of Bristol City will only die when I do, I find it hard to justify wasting any more time and money on a Club that is so determined to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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