EXPLANATION

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 hours ago, Robbored said:

SL gave an explanation last week when interviewed on the Subs Bench.

Essentially he sees LJ as an integral part of his long term project and feels he has a like minded manager in place. He's very reluctant to dismiss him because that would mean having to go back to square one with his strategy. He gave LJ a contract extension as sign of his commitment.

Should City lose against Burton then things might change.

 

Here is the problem to that utter nonsense that SL has spouted.

The players not only have to believe that 'dream' but also believe in LJ being the man to deliver that 'dream' and I really don't think that they do, he has alienated players at various times during this season and is now banging on about players that he trust, Jesus he has signed most of them.

I cannot help repeating this but people really need to take a close look at the goals that we have conceded in the past 5 months and the similarity is frightening, either straight down a midfield deserted centre with nobody getting within 2 yards of an opponent with defenders backing off and then backing off some more or down the flanks where our clueless full backs think that 2 yards is getting close to your man and nobody willing to put their body on the line to block a cross.

The problem is midfield and full backs and has been for most of the season, people I believe unjustly blame the over worked Flint and Bailey but at least both are more than willing to put their bodies on the line to block crosses and shots, certainly more than our pussy midfield and full backs that's for sure, how long does it take to coach this to our midfield and full backs.

Take a look at not only the goals but Villa's near misses and ask yourself what the **** were up to 3 pussy full backs/midfielders doing during the build up to any of them, it just plainly pathetic beyond belief, LJ and the coaching is an utter joke.

 

[The Coach]

23 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I posted earlier this week that if LJ is replaced then I think Millen would definitely be on SLs radar.

Not only does Millen know the club inside and out, SL rates him as well.

When Millen was previously in charge he was too inexperienced in management but since then he's gained valuable skills and experience at Palace.

It would be no surprise to me see him in charge next.

Keith Millen is no Manager/Head Coach, and he never will be. He's a Number 2, and that's it.

For one minute, even if LJ  was relived of his duties. I'm pretty confident KM would not be the man. But if he was selected, god help Lansdown and Bristol City Football Club.

It's getting to the point now for me of getting rather angry, which I rarely feel. But I am getting rather riled up over the thought of bringing in people with 0 experience/pedigree. For once, could the club actually bring in someone with a decent record.

SL rates or possibly rated LJ, look where that has got us. Lansdown has proven to me he should not be making the decisions which effect the football coaching/playing staff. But perhaps put in a new structure with a board with footballing knowledge. Just let him sit back and reap the benefits of it all. 

 

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Red_Wizard said:

Keith Millen is no Manager/Head Coach, and he never will be. He's a Number 2, and that's it.

For one minute, even if LJ  was relived of his duties. I'm pretty confident KM would not be the man. But if he was selected, god help Lansdown and Bristol City Football Club.

It's getting to the point now for me of getting rather angry, which I rarely feel. But I am getting rather riled up over the thought of bringing in people with 0 experience/pedigree. For once, could the club actually bring in someone with a decent record.

SL rates or possibly rated LJ, look where that has got us. Lansdown has proven to me he should not be making the decisions which effect the football coaching/playing staff. But perhaps put in a new structure with a board with footballing knowledge. Just let him sit back and reap the benefits of it all. 

 

That's my educated guess based on what SL said last week RW that's all. I could be completely wrong.

[The Coach]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

That's my educated guess based on what SL said last week RW that's all. I could be completely wrong.

I hope so my friend. However, this is Bristol City. Nothing surprises me anymore.

[AshtonGreat]

I fail to see any evidence of this 'project'.

Sure, we have a shiny new stadium (though the jury's still out for me whether this makes the matchday experience more enjoyable - and I doubt it will in League One).

As for focusing on younger players... Well, where are they? We're hardly Man United circa 1996 are we? Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid have been the only regulars in the past 7-8 years, and Vyner gets the occasional run-out. The Engvall situation was handled badly, and Taylor Moore got sent out on loan when he couldn't have done any worse than Flint etc. The rest of the squad appears to me to have been bloated out with some randoms from European leagues, a couple of journeymen and a loanee from a Premier League club. Perhaps it's all part of a masterplan that'll all magically come together, but at the moment you can't see the wood for the trees.

[cityshippers]

15 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Here is the problem to that utter nonsense that SL has spouted.

The players not only have to believe that 'dream' but also believe in LJ being the man to deliver that 'dream' and I really don't think that they do, he has alienated players at various times during this season and is now banging on about players that he trust, Jesus he has signed most of them.

I cannot help repeating this but people really need to take a close look at the goals that we have conceded in the past 5 months and the similarity is frightening, either straight down a midfield deserted centre with nobody getting within 2 yards of an opponent with defenders backing off and then backing off some more or down the flanks where our clueless full backs think that 2 yards is getting close to your man and nobody willing to put their body on the line to block a cross.

The problem is midfield and full backs and has been for most of the season, people I believe unjustly blame the over worked Flint and Bailey but at least both are more than willing to put their bodies on the line to block crosses and shots, certainly more than our pussy midfield and full backs that's for sure, how long does it take to coach this to our midfield and full backs.

Take a look at not only the goals but Villa's near misses and ask yourself what the **** were up to 3 pussy full backs/midfielders doing during the build up to any of them, it just plainly pathetic beyond belief, LJ and the coaching is an utter joke.

 

Couldn't agree more. We have let goals in for fun all season. We worry about 1 or 2 up front if Tomlin should play in the hole wide or at all. But we continue to ship goals game after game after game. Joe B is simply not a full back and never closes down. He is not a bad player as almost of the back four are ok at times. But put together they just ain't good enough add to that the poor cover they get in front and the average at best keeping behind its no wonder we're heading for L1. All teams that go down can't keep clean sheets.

[GoodridgeandGoater]

I'm increasingly convinced there must be some clause in the LJ contract which means it's cheaper to sack him if we are in the relegation zone. Hence if we don't beat burton on Saturday, he's likely to go. 

[Snufflelufagus]

In work today we have been talking about the importance of customer / client feedback. The worst kind of feed back is none, as that customer just ups and leaves and you don't know why. There is droves and droves of feedback on here and I feel we may be getting to the stage where people/ fans just up and leave.

[Stockwood nick]

As much as neil warnock is a manual manipulator, he'd work wonders with a squad like this!! I know he has signed a new deal at cardiff etc, but we need someone with his experience etc!!

[Roger Red Hat]

54 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I posted earlier this week that if LJ is replaced then I think Millen would definitely be on SLs radar.

Not only does Millen know the club inside and out, SL rates him as well.

When Millen was previously in charge he was too inexperienced in management but since then he's gained valuable skills and experience at Palace.

It would be no surprise to me see him in charge next.

That's probably true, but if he was to appoint KM, it would be yet another balls up by SL. Somebody with the ability to fire up the players, that they will instantly respect, is needed at this moment in time. KM has achieved nothing as a No.1.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

5 hours ago, Countryfile said:

I know that SL either reads or is told about topics on this forum.

so Steve (or Mrs L), could you spare a few moments to explain in a rational and logical manner why you have allowed this situation to develop at our club?

I like to think I am Mr average City fan, you know, ST holder, go to a few away games, supported for many years, have never chanted for any manager to be sacked, I even buy a half time draw ticket.

But having watched the club I support unravel in front of me I can't for the life of me understand why you have stood by and failed to act.

This is not an attempt to ridicule your unbelievable generosity toward the club, or  claim that you don't care, like me I'm sure you do.

What is the explanation Steve?

I think that maybe some of the communication difficulties come from fans on this forum using phrases like 'having watched the club I support unravel in front of me', when actually what you are talking about is the team doing badly, which is a different thing.  Football is a business and it's not all about what happens on the field.  The question I would like to ask is what effect relegation will have on the business plan for Bristol Sport.  As for what I watch on a Saturday afternoon, frankly it doesn't make much difference to me what division we are in (and if I'm honest, most of my happiest seasons have been in the third division), but what I would want to know is whether SL sees relegation as something with which we can live while the 'project' continues (after all, Man City and Southampton have both used relegation to the third tier as routes to success) or whether it would blow us out of the water in terms of future development.

[Natchfever]

8 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think that maybe some of the communication difficulties come from fans on this forum using phrases like 'having watched the club I support unravel in front of me', when actually what you are talking about is the team doing badly, which is a different thing.  Football is a business and it's not all about what happens on the field.  The question I would like to ask is what effect relegation will have on the business plan for Bristol Sport.  As for what I watch on a Saturday afternoon, frankly it doesn't make much difference to me what division we are in (and if I'm honest, most of my happiest seasons have been in the third division), but what I would want to know is whether SL sees relegation as something with which we can live while the 'project' continues (after all, Man City and Southampton have both used relegation to the third tier as routes to success) or whether it would blow us out of the water in terms of future development.

I would suggest that 8,000 season card sales and 12,000 average gates is likely to indicate that what happens on the field and the very likely relegation will have a marked effect to the business plan. Mr Lansdown's comments about fans rocking up if we are successful in league 1 hit a raw nerve with many supporters.

You will continue to watch regardless of the status of the club and I salute you. Thousands I suspect will pick and choose. That is the reality of sticking with Johnson and subsequent relegation i'm afraid.

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, Snufflelufagus said:

In work today we have been talking about the importance of customer / client feedback. The worst kind of feed back is none, as that customer just ups and leaves and you don't know why. There is droves and droves of feedback on here and I feel we may be getting to the stage where people/ fans just up and leave.

I remember it against Reading and Cardiff- once the 2nd- and inevitably the 3rd- in both games went in, people literally just got up and left. Dunno if it was in all stands but I saw it in the Dolman- perhaps a mass walkout in the ground on the concession of the next late goal would force Lansdown to act.

 

[redordead1]

4 hours ago, Olé said:

Because SL has set his heart on a forward thinking, innovative coach. It's good PR for the club and has potential to deliver returns beyond investment..

LJ presents himself as that man with soundbites and ideas (although for obvious reasons we're now hearing a lot less about drones and busy kitchens).

Not to ridicule any of those, but speaking with a good deal of experience of "innovation", by definition, no one actually knows if any of it's going to work.

And that's where I think this disconnect with SL lies. He wants forward thinking innovation, and believes LJ is almost unique in offering him exactly that.

The problem is, innovation is only innovation when it succeeds. When it doesn't (and it often won't), it's just a crazy distraction that no one understands.

SL has failed to understand that difference, which is why he doesn't share our desire to go back to basics, since he assumes it will work by brute force.

Go and talk to any startup about innovation and you will NEVER see brute force - test the minimum innovation you have, and if it's not working, give up.

Innovation is the key to competitive development for any business, economy or sporting team. Quite simply, if you stand still, you die.

However, as you mention Ole, innovation is experimentation, it's working with the unknown and it carries an inherent risk. The biggest risk though, and this is proven is to stand still and do nothing whilst your competitors innovate, evolve and leave you behind. Think Betamax, Kodak, BHS, or in a sporting environment the positive impact of innovation with the "Fosbury Flop", "Moneyball" or Cruyff taking the Total Football philosophy to Barca. So, how do the best businesses innovate and get ahead of their competitors, whilst not risking the entire business, or in our case risk relegation?

They incubate a project whilst protecting their existing main revenue streams. They appreciate that in time the existing way of doing things will, and probably should be surpassed. However, to come up with a genuinely innovative and more effective philosophy, they need to ring-fence this new approach from the rest of the business, invest in it and back it to succeed initially, whilst leaving the rest of the business to continue to bring in the revenue and continue as normal. There is an argument that this innovation should be spearheaded by the main visionary of the business Jobs, Gates etc.., or the owner because there will undoubtedly be dissenting voices and these distractions can kill good ideas. However, the best leaders also then leave the day to day running of the main businesses to those reliable and highly experienced people that have delivered consistently in the past. Finally, far more innovation projects get dumped than succeed and as Ole quite rightly says, you cannot force this through brute force and the best leaders know when to hit the kill switch and move on.

How might this approach have worked for City? I'm not the biggest fan of LJ, or for that matter the board and I'm aware that there is a lot of business speak in the above that some might shake their heads at. However, in principle SL is right to try and define a philosophy or a "BCFC way" that will enable this club to succeed and benefit from sustained success. The problem in my mind is his failure to incubate, his choice of manger and his failure to hit the kill switch early enough. If he see's something in LJ that we don't and genuinely wants him to define a new way for the club, then put him in a role like the U23's where he has a free reign to experiment, to learn and to gain experience that may allow him to them advance to first team manager/coach, whilst crucially protecting the first team from relegation by allowing the likes of MA or a "football man" to work with an experienced manager with a proven track record to keep us moving forward in this division whilst we wait for our longer term plan to kick in.

Unfortunately, SL has risked his "project" and our club's future though poor decision making and I fear his stubbornness will put us back years, again...

 

 

 

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

3 hours ago, phantom said:

From his quote last week about the fans will come back when we are back at the top of league one I'd question your point 

 

5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I remember it against Reading and Cardiff- once the 2nd- and inevitably the 3rd- in both games went in, people literally just got up and left. Dunno if it was in all stands but I saw it in the Dolman- perhaps a mass walkout in the ground on the concession of the next late goal would force Lansdown to act.

 

I think it would be seen more by SL, if indeed he is there, that a mass walkout after conceding the first goal would have more effect, as they very rarely come back after conceding and certainly not this season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, EstoniaTallinnRed said:

 

I think it would be seen more by SL, if indeed he is there, that a mass walkout after conceding the first goal would have more effect, as they very rarely come back after conceding and certainly not this season.

That's a better idea actually.

[Roger Red Hat]

7 minutes ago, redordead1 said:

They incubate a project whilst protecting their existing main revenue streams. They appreciate that in time the existing way of doing things will, and probably should be surpassed. However, to come up with a genuinely innovative and more effective philosophy, they need to ring-fence this new approach from the rest of the business, invest in it and back it to succeed initially, whilst leaving the rest of the business to continue to bring in the revenue and continue as normal. There is an argument that this innovation should be spearheaded by the main visionary of the business Jobs, Gates etc.., or the owner because there will undoubtedly be dissenting voices and these distractions can kill good ideas. However, the best leaders also then leave the day to day running of the main businesses to those reliable and highly experienced people that have delivered consistently in the past. Finally, far more innovation projects get dumped than succeed and as Ole quite rightly says, you cannot force this through brute force and the best leaders know when to hit the kill switch and move on.

 

How might this approach have worked for City? I'm not the biggest fan of LJ, or for that matter the board and I'm aware that there is a lot of business speak in the above that some might shake their heads at. However, in principle SL is right to try and define a philosophy or a "BCFC way" that will enable this club to succeed and benefit from sustained success. The problem in my mind is his failure to incubate, his choice of manger and his failure to hit the kill switch early enough. If he see's something in LJ that we don't and genuinely wants him to define a new way for the club, then put him in a role like the U23's where he has a free reign to experiment, to learn and to gain experience that may allow him to them advance to first team manager/coach, whilst crucially protecting the first team from relegation by allowing the likes of MA or a "football man" to work with an experienced manager with a proven track record to keep us moving forward in this division whilst we wait for our longer term plan to kick in.

 

Unfortunately, SL has risked his "project" and our club's future though poor decision making and I fear his stubbornness will put us back years, again...

 

 

 

Spot on.

[REDOXO]

The general philosophy is fine and nothing new. Buy young develop, increase academy out reach, develop and move on. But it's not that intuitive or new or even smart. What is ne to the UK is Bristol Sport.

The general tenant of the vision is fine what I don't get is why LJ is the one to deliver it when so clearly is failing because of him.

 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, redordead1 said:

They incubate a project whilst protecting their existing main revenue streams. They appreciate that in time the existing way of doing things will, and probably should be surpassed. However, to come up with a genuinely innovative and more effective philosophy, they need to ring-fence this new approach from the rest of the business, invest in it and back it to succeed initially, whilst leaving the rest of the business to continue to bring in the revenue and continue as normal.

However, the best leaders also then leave the day to day running of the main businesses to those reliable and highly experienced people that have delivered consistently in the past.

The problem in my mind is his failure to incubate, his choice of manger and his failure to hit the kill switch early enough.

Absolutely brilliant post and looking at it exactly the same way I was - but you've explained it far more clearly. THIS is what SL has got so badly wrong (or at least where his good willed intention and his actions have got so out of sync).

To your point, how would this work for City - we know very well. There are templates in other countries in clubs that genuinely have innovated. The place to experiment both as a coach and with players, is within the youth group. 

That way failure is not punished, lessons (both good and bad) are learned, and if methods succeed, you then have a conveyor belt of both prepared players and leaders/coaches to successfully introduce methods at first team level.

SL has rightly got excited about a young innovative coach, but has (and continues to) endorse all this learning and experimentation being immediately introduced and taking place at first team level in the Championship, without proof of success, and to a visibly alienated/lost set of players.

As I said this morning and you put far better above (I pulled out the most valuable points that you made far better than I) SL loves LJ's forward thinking but has badly misunderstood that innovation is fallible and needs to be incubated, not put straight into the most important role in the club without any experience or evidence and of methodologies working.

By continuing to ignore this fact and assume, blindly, that LJ will be able to test, identify, and establish his ideas, all while trying to deliver Championship progress, is foolhardy in the extreme and largely without parallel. The reality right now is we have the mess of someone trying to do both and failing, and a fan-base alienated by the fact the owner can't see it.

If I could like you post 20 times I would.

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, RedKatieScarlett said:

I know this will be against the run of play, so to speak but.. just a thought.

It is often said that if you keep on doing the same thing in the same way you will end up with the same results. Could it be that having watched years of City slumping, sacking the manager and then ( with very few exceptions) the exact same thing happening with a new manager, that SL is trying a different approach, hopefully with the view to a different outcome?

There was an article on the BBC sports page last week that seemed to suggest that despite the new manager " bounce" it was fairly hit or miss whether a new manager made a difference ( Cardiff - yes/Bham-no - for example...). My feeling, for what it's worth ( and I'm ready for the flak!), is that SL is hoping by doing differently the end result will not be the annual bottom of the division battle, now whether that extends to going down before going up I really don't know, and whether he is right is equally unclear but it could well explain why he is backing LJ against,what seems to be, all odds.

The principle of continuity and loyalty is a good one and worth pursuing; the choice of candidate to test this principle out with is questionable. 

If you keep just about any coach (they all do the same coaching course) for long enough, and allow them to keep buying new players every window, eventually you will win some games, and maybe "go on a run" at some point.

It's what happens in the meantime, the between the period where we are sh1t and "clueless" and the time when we start winning again, that's the problem. How low should we go - how much pain is tolerable - in the pursuit of such a noble aim?

If we still need the "crutch" of L1/Div 3 to find some form and "go on a run" again, then SL and his ideas have failed. And miserably.

 

 

 

[Benjam!n Ultra]

6 hours ago, LC_ said:

Explanation: the club want to redevelop the Atyeo but need to acquire the houses in Ashton Road to continue the project. The houses have recently been identified as belonging to LJ property holdings, owner of which has the club over a barrel...

Surely not! Nothing surprises me any more though...

[ZiderEyed]

5 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Here is the problem to that utter nonsense that SL has spouted.

The players not only have to believe that 'dream' but also believe in LJ being the man to deliver that 'dream' and I really don't think that they do, he has alienated players at various times during this season and is now banging on about players that he trust, Jesus he has signed most of them.

I cannot help repeating this but people really need to take a close look at the goals that we have conceded in the past 5 months and the similarity is frightening, either straight down a midfield deserted centre with nobody getting within 2 yards of an opponent with defenders backing off and then backing off some more or down the flanks where our clueless full backs think that 2 yards is getting close to your man and nobody willing to put their body on the line to block a cross.

The problem is midfield and full backs and has been for most of the season, people I believe unjustly blame the over worked Flint and Bailey but at least both are more than willing to put their bodies on the line to block crosses and shots, certainly more than our pussy midfield and full backs that's for sure, how long does it take to coach this to our midfield and full backs.

Take a look at not only the goals but Villa's near misses and ask yourself what the **** were up to 3 pussy full backs/midfielders doing during the build up to any of them, it just plainly pathetic beyond belief, LJ and the coaching is an utter joke.

 

Spot on as usual EMB. Fail to see how this is not a coaching issue, you get taught to close down properly on the wings in the under 10s for God's sake, how it has gone on this long is a testament to the absolute ******* joke our club has become. What is wrong with our midfield, absolutely devoid of backbone, of bravery, nobody is willing to commit themselves or their body and I feel that shows that LJ has lost the dressing room. Sorry if this was indecipherable but I am seething with rage at the moment.