Major Isewater Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 LJ calls that an attacking side ! Twentyman was discreetly flummoxed at that . He mentioned it once or twice as a good reason why we didn't win . This is Burton who have an appalling away record ,injuries to their best players and Under pressure to avoiding being leapfrogged by us. I know nothing about football but will be sending my CV to Lansdown this weekend . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Everything LJ touches turns to shit. Taylor was bang up for it when he came on and should've started, he caused a lot of problems. Thought Djuric would've been a better bet than Wilbs too who now magically seems able to start 3 games in a week??? Just absolutely bizarre decision making. He just seems to be able to get absolutely NOTHING right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 One up front isn't a problem if everything else is set up right. That was shown at the start of the season, and is continually shown by some of the best teams both in this league and in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbored Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 I work in the midlands with brum, wolves and Leeds fans and one thing we all agree on about the championship is that if you wanna win games your nearly always going to need two up top. One up top and you will be lucky to win and your more than likely to get a draw or not lose with a packed mid field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Reid was almost upfront first half. Shows how clueless LJ is that he entrusts the goal scoring to a 37 yr old and a midfielder who couldnt hit a cows arse with a shovel when taylor is chomping at the bit, WITH A GOALSCORING RECORD, and Djuric ( who basically won everything in the air). Im not interested in 'Djuric may not be fit' bollox. If hes fit enough for the bench, play him for an hour, get the game won and put Wilbs on. Johnson really keeps producing more and more joke tactics week on week doesnt he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: One up front isn't a problem if everything else is set up right. That was shown at the start of the season, and is continually shown by some of the best teams both in this league and in the world. With all due respect ,we weren't playing one of the best teams in the world but Burton who are terrible on the road . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Ok.... so this was an attacking side? Tomlin, Wilbrahim and Reid have 15 goals between them. Taylor, sat on the bench, had 21 this season, albeit mostly in league 1. How can you expect to win matches without a recognised goalscorer on the pitch. Incidentally, Taylor never missed a penalty for Rovers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: With all due respect ,we weren't playing one of the best teams in the world but Burton who are terrible on the road . Did I ever say or even suggest we were playing one of the best teams in the world. Read my post ffs. I said some of the best teams in the world and our league play with one up front. It's a formation that works if the midfielders are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: LJ calls that an attacking side ! Twentyman was discreetly flummoxed at that . He mentioned it once or twice as a good reason why we didn't win . This is Burton who have an appalling away record ,injuries to their best players and Under pressure to avoiding being leapfrogged by us. I know nothing about football but will be sending my CV to Lansdown this weekend . A manager running scared and whose first consideration is to avoid defeat, instead of looking to win. To my mind this was almost a must win game - one that could put us on the front foot for the next game and the remainder of the season. In those circumstances, to not set up with a winning mentality and formation, especially at home, is unforgivable. His first instinct has always seemed to be to put out a side aimed at countering the opposition rather than playing to our strengths ( given that it's been hard to find too many strengths in the past 4/5 months!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: Did I ever say or even suggest we were playing one of the best teams in the world. Read my post ffs. I said some of the best teams in the world and our league play with one up front. It's a formation that works if the midfielders are right. Calm down and watch your language. The best teams in the world play who ? The other best teams , that is why they employ this tactic . We were at home to Burton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonM88 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Calm down and watch your language. The best teams in the world play who ? The other best teams , that is why they employ this tactic . We were at home to Burton. The best teams in the world, in chelsea, Man City, Man Utd play one up top against the likes of Sunderland, Bournemouth, Watford etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 minute ago, JonDolman said: Could work if we had runners going beyond him. Reid was trying but struggled. Tomlin just didn't bother. In fact tomlin doesnt do anything. He goes to players with the ball when he should be running into space. Like playing with 10 men most of the time. Good shout. It was a perfectly decent formation - i can't see that we looked any more threatening when we had two strikers on for the last half an hour. What I find most frustrating about OTIB at the moment is that there appears to be only one theory about what has gone wrong, that is that the manager doesn't know what he's doing. As a result there is almost no debate about why we are in our present predicament. I'd love us to have a genuine debate about what has gone wrong, but that is impossible because anyone who doesn't accept that it is all Johnson's fault is written off as a happy clapper and met with a barrage of cliches such as 'he doesn't know his best team' which seems to be said of any manager who has the temerity to make changes. I wish I knew what has gone wrong, but one thing I'm pretty sure about is that the manager is only one factor in what I suspect is a very complicated equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slack Bladder Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 41 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: One up front isn't a problem if everything else is set up right. That was shown at the start of the season, and is continually shown by some of the best teams both in this league and in the world. At the start of the season we were always going behind playing one up front. It was only when he reverted to 2 up front,chasing the game that we managed to score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 One up top would have been fine, but it was the WRONG one up front. Don't throw AW's disallowed goal at me, fact of the matter is that was his ONLY meaningful chance all game. I can't fault the guy for his effort or professionalism - truly he is a credit to the game. But this was a game for Matty Taylor, like salt and vinegar is made for fish and chips. Just look at Burton's back four - they had the combined mobility of the Costa Concordia and as much ability to play on the deck as a pub league back line! A bit of pace and creativity, a bit of spark and imagination that a player in the mould of Matty Taylor brings to our team was exactly what we needed from the first whistle, not from the latter third of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwickshire Red Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 55 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: LJ calls that an attacking side ! Twentyman was discreetly flummoxed at that . He mentioned it once or twice as a good reason why we didn't win . This is Burton who have an appalling away record ,injuries to their best players and Under pressure to avoiding being leapfrogged by us. I know nothing about football but will be sending my CV to Lansdown this weekend . SL isn't far ahead of you. You might get the job! Clearly, if the game is a "must win" at home, you would think you would play two up front. LJ seems so negative or maybe it's a lack of confidence in the team's defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, JonDolman said: Could work if we had runners going beyond him. Reid was trying but struggled. Tomlin just didn't bother. In fact tomlin doesnt do anything. He goes to players with the ball when he should be running into space. Like playing with 10 men most of the time. Multiple likes - Ego boy reverted to collecting the ball off the centre halves AGAIN instead of supporting around Wilbs Sooner he goes the better- he can carry Johnsons bags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 But Lee thought he was playing 3 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redstreet Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Good shout. It was a perfectly decent formation - i can't see that we looked any more threatening when we had two strikers on for the last half an hour. What I find most frustrating about OTIB at the moment is that there appears to be only one theory about what has gone wrong, that is that the manager doesn't know what he's doing. As a result there is almost no debate about why we are in our present predicament. I'd love us to have a genuine debate about what has gone wrong, but that is impossible because anyone who doesn't accept that it is all Johnson's fault is written off as a happy clapper and met with a barrage of cliches such as 'he doesn't know his best team' which seems to be said of any manager who has the temerity to make changes. I wish I knew what has gone wrong, but one thing I'm pretty sure about is that the manager is only one factor in what I suspect is a very complicated equation. Well it's not that complex at Cardiff . They were awful , change manager and then a better run away from drop zone . Don't think it's any deeper than that to be honest . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRISTOL86 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 If it helps we were just as shit with two up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 50 minutes ago, JasonM88 said: One up front isn't a problem if everything else is set up right. That was shown at the start of the season, and is continually shown by some of the best teams both in this league and in the world. it hasn't worked for us for 5 months why should it suddenly start to work now?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said: If it helps we were just as shit with two up front. But this is because we are chasing the game and resorting to lumping it. Play two up, get the game won and see it out. Yes, we dont see games out i know but panic football near the end cannot constitute saying two up top doesnt work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 On the screens in the concourses before the match it showed the formation as 3-5-2 with Tomlin up front with Wilbs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, Redstreet said: Well it's not that complex at Cardiff . They were awful , change manager and then a better run away from drop zone . Don't think it's any deeper than that to be honest . Yes, but I'm not talking about Cardiff. Cardiff didn't start the season looking like promotion contenders. What has happened to us is significantly different to Cardiff. We started well and have fallen apart, but even then without being taken to pieces by opponents. I genuinely think that this may be the strangest season I can remember (and I've been watching City for over 50 years) and I don't think that the usual simplistic tendency to blame the manager alone cuts it. And if you don't know what he problem is, how can you find the solution? Don't get me wrong, I feel as desperate as anyone. But what makes me most desperate is that I think we have a good squad of players who have shown they can compete with anyone in the division, but we simply can't win games. The more I think about it the more it looks psychological, and maybe that is the manager fault, but I don't see what us being done about it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Yes, but I'm not talking about Cardiff. Cardiff didn't start the season looking like promotion contenders. What has happened to us is significantly different to Cardiff. We started well and have fallen apart, but even then without being taken to pieces by opponents. I genuinely think that this may be the strangest season I can remember (and I've been watching City for over 50 years) and I don't think that the usual simplistic tendency to blame the manager alone cuts it. And if you don't know what he problem is, how can you find the solution? Don't get me wrong, I feel as desperate as anyone. But what makes me most desperate is that I think we have a good squad of players who have shown they can compete with anyone in the division, but we simply can't win games. The more I think about it the more it looks psychological, and maybe that is the manager fault, but I don't see what us being done about it, a serious question DP - Do you believe the players are playing for him / respect him ? If the answer is no - you will have identified a major chunk of 'why' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, JonDolman said: He's an absolute liability. If burton had a tomlin type player in their side then they'd be going down. There's no room for him in a side fighting relegation. How it took Johnson till 10 minutes left of the game to bring him off is beyond me. Paterson helped change the game when he came on against Rotherham, playing behind the same 2 strikers that came on today. But he made the change far too late. More to the point - Why did he pick up him in the first place Came out The Tombola I can only guess or he tried the side on CM17 and it looked ok #JOHNSONOUTNOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: a serious question DP - Do you believe the players are playing for him / respect him ? If the answer is no - you will have identified a major chunk of 'why' Of course i wonder, but I've been a manager myself for a long time, and I've had staff not want to work for me because they didn't like what I was trying to do, but ultimately they were wrong and I was right. This will sound ridiculous, but maybe he just doesn't have physical stature to cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Of course i wonder, but I've been a manager myself for a long time, and I've had staff not want to work for me because they didn't like what I was trying to do, but ultimately they were wrong and I was right. This will sound ridiculous, but maybe he just doesn't have physical stature to cut it. I actually think that plays a part, but more to do with his credibility whether pre conceived (rightly or wrongly) by players or judged by his day to day work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honiton Tony Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Major Isewater said: With all due respect ,we weren't playing one of the best teams in the world but Burton who are terrible on the road . First time I have seen that phrase on OTIB ...... good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 So I think we're all agreed that LJ's team formations are baffling, and the bloody tombola must be due a service at some point, and therefore he's going to have a pick a team based on? What he sees? What he's told? What he knows? Either by the coaches or his Dad or whoever............ On the basis that today was (really) a 'must win' game, only playing one up front seems defeatist before the game kicks off.....must've made Burton smile. Playing one up front and expecting midfield runners to go up AND beyond the lone striker - have we done that all season?? Have we got the players that are intelligent enough and more importantly, disciplined enough to know how to do it and when to do it? I, like a lot of other Reds, don't understand bringing in Djuric and then the fuss over poaching MT from the Gas and then not really playing either, yet Giefer comes in in goal and almost immediately replaces Fielding? We don't have any conventional fullbacks but seem unable to play 3 at the back without adequate protection in front, which is where Hegeler might come in but he's not playing? Joe Bryan seems to completely spilt fan opinion with most saying that he's a centre midfielder, not a wing back - but LJ doesn't seem to recognise this? So, assuming Giefer is in goal, Flint, Magnusson and Wright play back 3, JB plays in CM, with a licence to get forward and support a lone striker, we need 2 wing backs to provide some width but more importantly pace, so O'Dowda on one side and Cotterill on the other? Thus, if Hegeler plays in midfield this leaves one empty space - who do we think takes it? GoN, Smith, Pack? LJ doesn't seem to know, hence his constant chopping and changing of the team, delaying subs etc. Today was tailormade for 3-5-2, pace, width, attacking intent, get in front, stay in front, then consolidate for a win, but he seems unable to inspire, motivate the team to do the necessary. He simply has to go. There is no reason why we aren't comfortably midtable with this squad, already safe and looking forward to next season with an eye to strengthening the squad further. Instead, the trapdoor is well and truly open and we've put one foot on a rickety step ladder down to League One. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 The debate about Tomlin just shows how much football is all about opinions and just how different they can be. I'd have his name first on the team sheet. I'd let the lazy sod idle away 80% of the game for the 18 minutes when the one pass, one run, one shot could change the course of the game. Why did he go so deep looking for the ball? Because once it ends up with the back 3 or 4 the ball only travels sideways until one of them lumps it forwards. If you watch Tomlin off the ball, his frustration at the laboured play is clearly visible. And yes the penalty was abysmal but he shouldn't have taken it. Taylor never missed a penalty for Rovers. Tomlin is another JET, yes a waster, but worth the ticket price for a moment of magic. I don't know what makes him tick but it's the manager's job to bring the best out of him and that really hasn't happened. Johnson isn't the first to struggle with him and probably won't be the last if they end up in league 1. But if that shot in the 2nd minute had gone in, this debate may well have had a very different slant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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