Been there, done that

[Dastardly and Muttley]

I first got a season ticket when John Ward managed us in the old Second Division. 

During that season, the board brought in some help for him in Benny, but it clearly didn't go as planned. One of the things I remember talking about at the time was that Ward had never managed or played higher than the Third Division prior to that year and that this lack of experience hindered him. It may have even been something that JW said himself.

Now take a look at our current coaching staff. Who's been there and done that at this level or higher?

 LJ has played here and in the SPL, but never managed at this level. 

Pemberton has been an assistant at this level, no higher. (TBH I can't remember his playing career, so unclear on that.)

Dean Holden hasn't coached at or above this level. Same for Jamie Mac.

Look at our playing staff - only O'Neil and Wilbraham have English top flight experience. Only Lee Tomlin, Scott Golbourne, David Cotterill and Jamie Paterson have played regularly for other clubs in this division.

Mark Ashton joined us from Oxford.

On our board, there is no football experience.

Who is there in this group that is brave enough to shake things up? Who has the experience and history to lead the club? Who has the gravitas to stand up to SL and have his voice listened to? No one, from what I can see and that's the biggest issue.

Back in John Ward's time, we went down because of his lack of experience and a wasted transfer window when we blew all our funds on Akinbiyi, Thorpe and Anderson leaving nothing for the defence. This season we're blowing it by sticking with a plan that doesn't work and not adding any leaders, despite our very own manager bemoaning this fact in December prior to the window opening.

We all knew we had no backbone, no experience and no fight, so where were these experienced additions in January? Where were the rumours that we were even after these players? 

This club needs someone who has been there and done that. Someone with the experience and know how to cleanse this club from top to bottom. This club needs a leader, as right now it's sadly lacking in any direction other than downwards.

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Just to add. Take a few mins to look here: http://www.footballsquads.co.uk/eng/2016-2017/flcham.htm

Look at the far right column for each club and see who these players were signed from. The vast majority of Championship squads are made up of players signed from Championship/Premiership/foreign teams. Very few have a majority of players signed from lower league teams.

Then look at us, players signed from Cheltenham, Swindon, Peterborough, Oxford, Rovers and Oldham, amongst others. Simply no experience at this level.

[Clint]

Interesting read. Even Huddersfield have 7 players from prem clubs 

[paulcityfan]

Tight ass approach.  Typical accountant mentality.  OK if you don't (really) want to move up

[Alan Dicks]

1 hour ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I first got a season ticket when John Ward managed us in the old Second Division. 

During that season, the board brought in some help for him in Benny, but it clearly didn't go as planned. One of the things I remember talking about at the time was that Ward had never managed or played higher than the Third Division prior to that year and that this lack of experience hindered him. It may have even been something that JW said himself.

Now take a look at our current coaching staff. Who's been there and done that at this level or higher?

 LJ has played here and in the SPL, but never managed at this level. 

Pemberton has been an assistant at this level, no higher. (TBH I can't remember his playing career, so unclear on that.)

Dean Holden hasn't coached at or above this level. Same for Jamie Mac.

Look at our playing staff - only O'Neil and Wilbraham have English top flight experience. Only Lee Tomlin, Scott Golbourne, David Cotterill and Jamie Paterson have played regularly for other clubs in this division.

Mark Ashton joined us from Oxford.

On our board, there is no football experience.

Who is there in this group that is brave enough to shake things up? Who has the experience and history to lead the club? Who has the gravitas to stand up to SL and have his voice listened to? No one, from what I can see and that's the biggest issue.

Back in John Ward's time, we went down because of his lack of experience and a wasted transfer window when we blew all our funds on Akinbiyi, Thorpe and Anderson leaving nothing for the defence. This season we're blowing it by sticking with a plan that doesn't work and not adding any leaders, despite our very own manager bemoaning this fact in December prior to the window opening.

We all knew we had no backbone, no experience and no fight, so where were these experienced additions in January? Where were the rumours that we were even after these players? 

This club needs someone who has been there and done that. Someone with the experience and know how to cleanse this club from top to bottom. This club needs a leader, as right now it's sadly lacking in any direction other than downwards.

I see what your saying, we don't have a very experience core at the club

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Look at our playing staff - only O'Neil and Wilbraham have English top flight experience.

Mark Ashton joined us from Oxford...

To be fair, David Cotterill has played in the premier league, as has Adam Matthews and Lee Tomlin....granted Matthews and Tomlin didn't play much at that level, but then nor did Wilbs.

And you also said only Cotterill, Tomlin, Goldbourne and Paterson 'have played regularly for other clubs in this division.'

What about Mark Little's time with Wolves and Posh at this level? And Frankie's three seasons with Derby in the championship during which he made around 80 appearances? And Korey Smith's many championship appearances for Norwich?

...and Mark Ashton's CV includes 14 years as a Director at West Brom and nearly 5 years as CEO at Watford.

Just wanted to give a bit of balance. Generally I agree with what you're saying...

[Dastardly and Muttley]

10 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

To be fair, David Cotterill has played in the premier league, as has Adam Matthews and Lee Tomlin....granted Matthews and Tomlin didn't play much at that level, but then nor did Wilbs.

And you also said only Cotterill, Tomlin, Goldbourne and Paterson 'have played regularly for other clubs in this division.'

What about Mark Little's time with Wolves and Posh at this level? And Frankie's three seasons with Derby in the championship during which he made around 80 appearances? And Korey Smith's many championship appearances for Norwich?

...and Mark Ashton's CV includes 14 years as a Director at West Brom and nearly 5 years as CEO at Watford.

Just wanted to give a bit of balance. Generally I agree with what you're saying...

Very good points, my memory wasn't great when I was writing last night - I'm going to blame it on the few glasses of Scotch I'd consumed!

There are, as you say, more players with experience of a higher level, although it's interesting that it doesn't translate to the coaching staff.

Our next move has to be to get someone with pedigree on to the coaching team. For me, it looks like Keith Millen is likely to fill this role. This may be a great move, as Millen will have learnt a huge amount from his time at Palace and retains the respect of SL, whilst knowing the club inside out.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

13 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

I first got a season ticket when John Ward managed us in the old Second Division. 

During that season, the board brought in some help for him in Benny, but it clearly didn't go as planned. One of the things I remember talking about at the time was that Ward had never managed or played higher than the Third Division prior to that year and that this lack of experience hindered him. It may have even been something that JW said himself.

 

 

Some might have a different take on the John Ward era, which is that there were signs that we were beginning to turn a corner when the Board brought in Benny Lennartson, which made John Ward's position untenable.  Yes, the summer signings were unbalanced (not least because Scott Davidson was playing at being a football manager and making signings without even consulting John Ward) but there was still time to do something about the defence and with the talent we had up front, we were always likely to score goals.  Of course, as we know, having forced out Ward, Benny never stood a chance, and the rest is history.  Had we persevered with John Ward, who knows what might have happened that season?

Every manager has to manage at a higher level for the first time at some point in their career.  Gary Johnson didn't make a bad fist of it at his first attempt, and nor did his squad, many of whom were playing at that level for the first time.

[Boston Red]

4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Some might have a different take on the John Ward era, which is that there were signs that we were beginning to turn a corner when the Board brought in Benny Lennartson, which made John Ward's position untenable.  Yes, the summer signings were unbalanced (not least because Scott Davidson was playing at being a football manager and making signings without even consulting John Ward) but there was still time to do something about the defence and with the talent we had up front, we were always likely to score goals.  Of course, as we know, having forced out Ward, Benny never stood a chance, and the rest is history.  Had we persevered with John Ward, who knows what might have happened that season?

Every manager has to manage at a higher level for the first time at some point in their career.  Gary Johnson didn't make a bad fist of it at his first attempt, and nor did his squad, many of whom were playing at that level for the first time.

Exactly, TDP.

John Ward's last game in charge was a stirring 2-1 home win on a Friday night on tv against Bolton. We were two places OUTSIDE the relegation zone when he left.

Benny lost his first two games 5-1 and 5-0, could hardly speak English, took us to the bottom of the league, and that is where we finished at the end of the season. 

[swanker]

38 minutes ago, Boston Red said:

Exactly, TDP.

John Ward's last game in charge was a stirring 2-1 home win on a Friday night on tv against Bolton. We were two places OUTSIDE the relegation zone when he left.

Benny lost his first two games 5-1 and 5-0, could hardly speak English, took us to the bottom of the league, and that is where we finished at the end of the season. 

Bring back Benny.