bh_red Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 When cotterill left Pembo took over. We changed formation and overnight we became solid at the back, scored goals and our form turned around, Johnson then came in and ran with the setup from Pembo till the end of the season. Slowly overtime LJ implemented his own ideas on the team and things have slowly got worse. People can point the finger at the defensive coach however...how many times have we changed defence? How many times have we changed formation (plus changes during games) how can you coach 3/4 different defensive setups and expect clean sheets how can you change the team every single week and expect clean sheets frankly you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcnick Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 It's quite easy to see, whenever JP has been given responsibility he has done well. He won the old 'combination league title in his sole season as Forest reserves manager, he took Palace academy to the cup final in his sole season in charge and he transformed a long losing run to get decent performances and results in his short-time managing City. As coach he had City playing decent football and getting good results before LJ eroded his influence and brought in DH (despite fans elsewhere having contempt for his coaching abilities) and put his own destructive stamp on tactics, team selection and recruitment. Contrast that to LJ's record with his ever changing tactics and personnel. His had a decidely mediocre time at Oldham at best and his losing streak at Barnsley combined with the negative reaction of both sets of fans tells its own story that has continued and got worse here. LJ has the worst record of any City manager in tandem with the biggest transfer spending spree. SL wanted stability in the set-up hence he wanted someone to work within the existing structure but LJ has got rid of two key and well-liked personnel by players and fans alike in Wade Elliot and JP as well as breaking-up the team spirit with some very random multi-million buys for the future. One is not wanted in any league and has to be sent back to Sweden the other, despite us being short of right backs, isn't deemed ready here. Steve Lansdown gave quite a glowing opinion of JP in an earlier season interview when questions were being asked of LJ. I had thought he would do the right thing and give JP a decent until end of season chance when it became LJ couldn't cut it. He's obviously been influenced by LJ, GJ and, quite probably, even his Jon Lansdown to sack the worng man regardless of common sense and a mass of evidence to the contrary. I've no doubt that Lee will have played the situation and involved JL in a way no other manager would in order to connive to make him more difficult to sack. I suspect Mark Ashton will just advocate whoever he thinks has the power base in order to keep his own job. SL has missed an opportunity here to give JP an opportunity to replicate what he has done whenever he has been given responsibility. I wouldn't want a successful snake-like manager but SL has chosen a failing one over a genuine, honest down to earth football man who fits well with fans and players alike. More importantly he seems to have the pedigree to get the Club back on track on all fronts when under LJ it is failing with tactics, spirit, personnel, perfomance and, no suprise, results. Nothing surprises me so the slightly forlorn hope is that SL will eventually see sense and sack LJ / DH end of season and give the job to someone who has the attributes to get the Club back on track with the fans and on the pitch. There are plenty of decent candidates out there although some might not fit what appears to be the top criteria of being able to be SL's friend. I'd find it highly amusing and pleasing if JP applied and got the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Whether it's right or wrong the timing is poor. I can understand them not wanting to make the change as soon as Holden came in. It's worth giving these things a while to see how they turn out. By leaving it this late Johnson has given himself almost no time to prove that it was the right decision. Only an immediate upturn in form will do or he'll have to go as well and we'll never know who was at fault. If he'd only taken this decision a month or two earlier there would have been time to see it working or not and then to act accordingly. Ashton and the board must share the blame for this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 9 hours ago, john from high littleton said: Holden is the attacking coach....... We haven't struggled to score. Pemberton was the defensive coach........ Uh you work it out! We didn't struggle to score before Holden, we didn't struggle to defend before......guess who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspokenman Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 9 hours ago, john from high littleton said: Holden is the attacking coach....... We haven't struggled to score. Pemberton was the defensive coach........ Uh you work it out! Uncanny how everything started heading South, once Holden was appointed in November. The man with the League 1 touch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspokenman Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 May be they got the wrong Holden ? Amanda would have been my first choice too. Bet the players would have got in early for training ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Really James ? Check our results pre and post arrival of the '1 new person' Less disruptive ? Doesnt look like it !!! Something can be "less disruptive" and end up having a poor effect. So, yes, less disruptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 15 hours ago, Tangle Foot said: I've been told that Pembo is a really nice a guy, but is a lazy s**t. This came from a source close to Steve Cotterill. Make of that what you will. Is that ' source close to Cotterill ' the guy who was his assistant ? None other than John Aloysius Pemberton ? Laziness is in fact a virtue, since the age of time mankind, being idle loafers, has searched ways to make life easier leading to inventions such as the car , credit cards and toilets that automatically clean your behinds after a sit down . This last one being less common. Capitalism is not driven by how to make more money but ' how to make more money ' with less effort . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashton_fan Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 JP a bit feisty, remember stories of him squaring up to Cotts pre-season. The difference is Cotts was man enough to respect him for that. I'm sure he's been giving a few choice opinions to LJ who being a relative novice couldn't handle it. A shame really since it's good to have people in the camp who have a different viewpoint. It was noticeable in JP's last game against Burton he looked more like the manager on the touchline than LJ, he was shouting the instructions to the players and getting animated while LJ stood there with arms folded. It sounds as if JP knew he was going at the end of the season anyway so it shows his professionalism that he still cared, sure he'll get another job fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Roger Red Hat said: We didn't struggle to score before Holden, we didn't struggle to defend before......guess who? Your not honestly saying we didn't struggle to defend last season are you? You must be a fantasist :laugh:! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Up The City! said: People often blame the current form on DH but thinking about it in a different way what if Pembo was told at that time he would be leaving at the end of the season and being pissed off he simply stopped trying especially with his replacement already employed by thr club? That's utter crap . I've watched JP in the dugout and he's been more animated than ever. I believe that he and the players just don't believe in what they're being asked to do. If you can't see that they're trying but not trusting the manager then I worry for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 10 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: Pemberton saved us from relegation? I was under the impression LJ was our manager from last February or did I imagine that and he only joined in May? Nice little rewrite of history there. I liked Pemberton but, as with LJ, questions have to be asked as to how well he was doing his job. Pemberton was here for 4 years as a defensive coach, in that time we were defensively terrible under 3 different managers. 3/4 of his time here he either wasn't doing well in his job, or his good work was being undone by 3 separate managers. The one good season of his time here was when our side was so good we didn't really have to worry about the defensive side of things because we could outscore anyone. As for the timing, it isn't that difficult to reach a logical conclusion. The following is speculation, but fits the little we have been told and is a pretty sensible way to go about things. LJ was willing to have a go with Pemberton, but realised earlier during the season (maybe there was a fall out, maybe not) that he would rather bring in his own man (not unreasonable, lots of managers do). For the benefit of the side, he said to the board he would wait until the summer to minimise disruption during the season. I know someone will bring up Holden in response to the last sentence, but bringing in 1 new person is a lot less disruptive than getting rid of one person and rushing to bring in another. Well. Seems I'm not alone in the rewriting department. As far as many are concerned Pembo steadied the ship when Cotterril was booted out and yes did save us from relegation in organising the defence. We can now see that SC wasn't enough of a yes-man for SL., probably asked for too much (paltry in comparison to what Lee has had of course but then Steve Cotterril's name isn't Johnson). Also it's ridiculous to say that the defence took care of itself in the league 1 promotion and that Pemberton was "defensively terrible" You haven't explained why having 2 assistant managers isn't a recipe for the disruption that you say Johnson was concerned to minimise and also why our record -breaking losing run coincided with Holden's arrival. Lastly do you really believe what Ashton said in that interview about Pemberton and McAllister? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honiton Tony Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Why is it this hard Johnson is the head coach so it is him who should take the blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: That's utter crap . I've watched JP in the dugout and he's been more animated than ever. I believe that he and the players just don't believe in what they're being asked to do. If you can't see that they're trying but not trusting the manager then I worry for you. Yes but likewise there's a lot of people on here who shout a lot and get animated, but don't have a clue what they're talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, john from high littleton said: Yes but likewise there's a lot of people on here who shout a lot and get animated, but don't have a clue what they're talking about! And plenty more who stand like our Head Coach with their arms behind their back watching passively as we become a shambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, southvillekiddy said: Well. Seems I'm not alone in the rewriting department. As far as many are concerned Pembo steadied the ship when Cotterril was booted out and yes did save us from relegation in organising the defence. We can now see that SC wasn't enough of a yes-man for SL., probably asked for too much (paltry in comparison to what Lee has had of course but then Steve Cotterril's name isn't Johnson). Also it's ridiculous to say that the defence took care of itself in the league 1 promotion and that Pemberton was "defensively terrible" You haven't explained why having 2 assistant managers isn't a recipe for the disruption that you say Johnson was concerned to minimise and also why our record -breaking losing run coincided with Holden's arrival. Lastly do you really believe what Ashton said in that interview about Pemberton and McAllister? I haven't rewritten history at all. Steadied the ship, yes. Saved us from relegation? No. I didn't say that Pemberton was defensively terrible, I said our teams were. Which is true. Under SOD our defense was dire, under Cotterill in this division it was shambolic and mistakes made by individuals this season have been amateurish. I explained why bringing in one person, as opposed to shoving one out and then bringing in another could be less disruptive. The fact it didn't work is another matter. An idea being less disruptive than an alternative doesn't guarantee it will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southvillekiddy Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, JamesBCFC said: I haven't rewritten history at all. Steadied the ship, yes. Saved us from relegation? No. I didn't say that Pemberton was defensively terrible, I said our teams were. Which is true. Under SOD our defense was dire, under Cotterill in this division it was shambolic and mistakes made by individuals this season have been amateurish. I explained why bringing in one person, as opposed to shoving one out and then bringing in another could be less disruptive. The fact it didn't work is another matter. An idea being less disruptive than an alternative doesn't guarantee it will work. Look mate . You are splitting hairs on our defensive woes and you haven't said yet if you swallow all that Ashton stuff. I've never heard of another Club having 2 assistant managers. i don't blame Johnson for most of this, apart from his arrogance. I blame SL for choosing the wrong person yet again and putting them in an invidious situation.The Holden/Pemberton thing is a massive mistake that an experienced Manager wouldn't make. Johnson is the wrong person in the wrong place, encouraged like Tinnion to think he was capable of doing the job out of SL's apparent need to feel safe. The difference is that Brian Tinnion eventually saw the light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 13 hours ago, john from high littleton said: Holden is the attacking coach....... We haven't struggled to score. Pemberton was the defensive coach........ Uh you work it out! Yeah we had so much trouble scoring before Holden arrived. How do you know pembo wasnt doing a great job as defensive coach ? after all we only lose by the odd goal (which we are constantly remided of by the LJ love in crowd) despite the team selection changing every match and the tactics changing 3 - 4 times per game and the manager generally not knowing what the **** he is doing, I think we might start to ship more with him gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, tts_city said: Yeah we had so much trouble scoring before Holden arrived. How do you know pembo wasnt doing a great job as defensive coach ? after all we only lose by the odd goal (which we are constantly remided of by the LJ love in crowd) despite the team selection changing every match and the tactics changing 3 - 4 times per game and the manager generally not knowing what the **** he is doing, I think we might start to ship more with him gone. If your happy for Pemberton to continue as our defensive coach. Can I perhaps recommend you go bank with Northern Rock, and take out a pension with BHS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 minute ago, john from high littleton said: If your happy for Pemberton to continue as our defensive coach. Can I perhaps recommend you go bank with Northern Rock, and take out a pension with BHS! Hilarious, take a bow son, now go back to sucking johnson off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, tts_city said: Hilarious, take a bow son, now go back to sucking johnson off. Sorry if I upset you Mrs Pemberton! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Just now, john from high littleton said: Sorry if I upset you Mrs Pemberton! Im surprised you can talk with your mouth full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Whatever happened , or didn't , and whoever is to blame Bringing Holden in would naturally have changed dynamics somewhere and the results since then speak for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, tts_city said: Im surprised you can talk with your mouth full. Exactly what I said to yer wife the other night! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 12 hours ago, JamesBCFC said: Elements of truth there, but not all of it. Lee J said it was the boards decision, Ashton said Johnson had decided it would happen, Johnson then "agreed" with the board about making it a bit earlier. This was said by Ashton about 2 sentences later. So Lee J made the decision, the board decided the timing. Both statements about it being Lees decision or the boards decision are therefore correct if you take in (and believe) all of what was said. Fair enough, but if Pemberton was the problem, why didn't Johnson and the Board do something about it earlier? And after LJ made the decision to replace Pemberton at the end of the season, why did the board wait until game 36, with City in 22nd place in the Championship, to, "Change the dynamic"? What does that say about Ashton's management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tts_city Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 13 minutes ago, john from high littleton said: Exactly what I said to yer wife the other night! If you can call an inch a mouthfull, but then you also think LJ is a good manager, so no surprises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, john from high littleton said: Your not honestly saying we didn't struggle to defend last season are you? You must be a fantasist :laugh:! I think we struggled to defend before SC got the boot. JP then reverted to a back four and we looked a bit more solid. What's with the 'fantasist, remark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Roger Red Hat said: I think we struggled to defend before SC got the boot. JP then reverted to a back four and we looked a bit more solid. What's with the 'fantasist, remark? Sorry, but I can't actually remember the last time we had a really good defence. If it improved under Pemberton, then it was only very slightly. I mean we're not shipping goals now, but we just can't defend a lead. LJ must take ultimate responsibility for this. But I don't see how Pemberton gets off lightly. He was supposed to be the defensive coach after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 9 hours ago, RedSA said: Put it this way, would you have a striker training a goalkeeper because they used to have to play against them? I said I can see the logic in it. Not that I support the idea all the time but can see why he may be an attacking coach. I think it's important to mix it all up as there is a lot of knowledge to be passed around and limiting yourselves to a former striker must coach attackers is just silly. And to answer your question yes I would on occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up The City! Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 6 hours ago, steviestevieneville said: That's utter crap . I've watched JP in the dugout and he's been more animated than ever. I believe that he and the players just don't believe in what they're being asked to do. If you can't see that they're trying but not trusting the manager then I worry for you. I see a team who are trying but are simply not doing what they are being asked to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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