Berkshire Red Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 This could be a really short thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Or just a really long one with abuse directed at OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge1981 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. Thanks Lee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. I have some sympathy for this opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAGa Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I admire SL's loyalty and willingness to back a long-term manager. He should have done it with Cotts but LJ clearly has a better relationship (for the time being) with the board. It is a massive gamble and criticism has been warranted for how the season has panned out. We have made more positive strides in recent weeks, I hope SL's gamble of remaining loyal is paid off and we can go again next season. I'm tired of bringing in a new manager every 12 months only for the same cycle to repeat itself on and on and on. Fingers crossed we stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said: I have some sympathy for this opinion. As we all do for people with mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashtonwurzel Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 To be be fair I would have made a change about a month ago but am happy to trust SL. Things behind the scenes cannot be as bad as we all think they are It does still seem that the players are playing for LJ and that does say a lot considering the horrific run of results we have been on. He must being doing something right to keep them all on board at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SARJ Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 23 minutes ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. Johnson out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Where have you been for the last 4 months? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Come on then, who'll the first comedy genius to quip "nice post, Lee"? That joke is really beginning to get on my goat now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin1988 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said: I have some sympathy for this opinion. Same, but then when you look at the chopping and changing of the team and other wise LJ-isms, it somehow evaporates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityloyal473 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, SARJ said: Johnson out Beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, The Journalist said: Come on then, who'll the first comedy genius to quip "nice post, Lee"? That joke is really beginning to get on my goat now. Nice post, Stocky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, The Journalist said: Come on then, who'll the first comedy genius to quip "nice post, Lee"? That joke is really beginning to get on my goat now. Alright Lee calm down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Journalist Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 1 minute ago, hodge said: Alright Lee calm down You're allowed that one, to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Sticking with a manager long term who has taken us on or worst run in history & looks way out his depth seems a great idea Pick any manager / coach you like Steve , to back , And you back this one Fwends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 28 minutes ago, city2015 said: Thanks for being the sacrificial lamb this week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 32 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said: This could be a really short thread. 27 minutes ago, hodge said: Or just a really long one with abuse directed at OP That seems to have covered every permutation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 It's ok sticking with a manager long term if you can see what he's trying to do. I don't think there is one fan that can see a style of play he's trying to instill . He also makes schoolboy type errors with player selection , team shape and tactics. So yes by all means have a long term plan but put someone in charge who doesn't come from the monty python school of football management . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 The issue is that backing Cotts in the window to the same extent as LJ could have avoided this absolute mess.And being blunt, our poor shape, lack of closing down, and inviting crosses into the box, don't constitute as tactics. It invites unneeded pressure upon a taxed and overworked defence. It comes to the point where either you admire SL's perseverance, but its at which points its become pig-headed stubbornness, with all respect to the OP. If this does work-out, then fair enough. But these traits that LJ's is displaying i.e. chopping and changing at half time, some of us took as him not being afraid to change it, when in truth he simply doesnt seem to like picking a settled side, which does no-one in the squad any favors in terms of consistency and confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestfieldRed Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I agree with this post 100%. And who really thinks that sacking LJ at this moment would help our chances of staying up? If a new manager comes in shortly with 7/8 games to go, we've got Shearer at Newcastle, trying to keep us up with no time to work with the players. Also that new manager would be totally safe in the job regardless of whether we go down or stay up, so there's very little pressure on him to pull a rabbit out of his proverbial as it's a long term project... But Lee Johnson is currently throwing himself into the job with everything he's got, fearing for the sack and the inevitable a downward spiral of his young career. What better motivator can there be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted March 13, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 27 minutes ago, Ashtonwurzel said: To be be fair I would have made a change about a month ago but am happy to trust SL. True, he does have a long history of appointing decent managers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuber Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, WestfieldRed said: I agree with this post 100%. And who really thinks that sacking LJ at this moment would help our chances of staying up? If a new manager comes in shortly with 7/8 games to go, we've got Shearer at Newcastle, trying to keep us up with no time to work with the players. Also that new manager would be totally safe in the job regardless of whether we go down or stay up, so there's very little pressure on him to pull a rabbit out of his proverbial as it's a long term project... But Lee Johnson is currently throwing himself into the job with everything he's got, fearing for the sack and the inevitable a downward spiral of his young career. What better motivator can there be? There's also the chance that, not being that experienced, he panics. We need someone who will pick a settled side, with a strict set of tactics and instructions, of which I'm afraid to say there is no sign of under LJ. Based on the form table we've had false dawns during this awful run a couple of times, will this be any different? We need to win 4 of our next 9 to guarantee safety to any degree, when we've won 3 of our last 23, being Wigan, Rotherham, and Fleetwood respectively. And even against the latter three we were horrifically mediocre at best, take away the second halfs and you can make that just plain horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspokenman Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said: It's ok sticking with a manager long term if you can see what he's trying to do. I don't think there is one fan that can see a style of play he's trying to instill . He also makes schoolboy type errors with player selection , team shape and tactics. So yes by all means have a long term plan but put someone in charge who doesn't come from the monty python school of football management . Cmon Stevie, how can you say wrong team shape ? Have you not seen the heat map of the Wigan game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRobartes Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I do have sympathy for the view that the sacking culture in modern football can be counter-productive to long-term stability and success. That said, I would have changed our head coach months ago. Good players have regressed under his watch and there seems to be little continuity from team and formation selections to our style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshtonGreat Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 49 minutes ago, city2015 said: While I understand the results have not been good enough of late, I honestly don't think a new manager is the long term fix for the club. Yes, if we go down then we may look back at the end of the season and say we could have had a new manager and a 'honeymoon period' which may have kept us up. However, I believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with the club and in the past we have backed the players over the manager which is completely wrong. With all successful long running managers, no player has ever come before the manager, and if you don't make the effort week in week out to fit into the managers plans and play for the team then you will be sold. I don't believe many players came to Man United under Alex Ferguson and underperformed, only for the fans to blame Ferguson for not picking him and suggesting he resigned. Further to this, we have seen countless good players sign for Bristol City, only to be a massive flop. It seems to me as if the players know they can get away with it here and the blame will be shifted to the manager. If we continue to support Lee Johnson then the players will have to adapt, and play for the manager or move elsewhere. I would like to see us persist with and support our young british manager who has a genuine passion for the club and will continue to learn on the job, and I will happily see any player who doesn't want to make the effort to fit in at the club and work hard for the club and manager for whatever reasons leave. I am therefore supportive of what SL and LJ are trying to do by persisting with the manager and believe that if we sack LJ we will be in the same situation as we are now when a new manager comes in, players will know that if they perform badly they will continue to sit and underperform every week while collecting their large paycheck while the manager takes the blame. The point is, very few players did underperform for Alex Ferguson - because he was a good manager. Most players underperform for Lee Johnson, because he doesn't know what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardob59 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I'm in the LJ out camp, but also feel that it's possibly too late now.. Change should have been made when we were in free fall.. We have beaten the two teams below us 1-0 & stuttered to a few half decent performances.. The 'big up' new manager effect was needed a while back.. I don't believe SL should have allowed a manager to learn his trade at our club.. But it's a typical cosy appointment that we either will regret in the coming months or survive by skin of teeth.. Either way SL should have acted many games away.. But whatever outcome in May LJ has to go or move sideways to allow experience to build.. LJ needs to learn from more experienced Manager.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Red Hat Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 31 minutes ago, The Journalist said: Come on then, who'll the first comedy genius to quip "nice post, Lee"? That joke is really beginning to get on my goat now. How does the goat feel about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellspokenman Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said: The point is, very few players did underperform for Alex Ferguson - because he was a good manager. Most players underperform for Lee Johnson, because he doesn't know what he's doing. Now that's not fair, I am sure he does know what he's doing.... as long as it's not football related.... Oh, and makes a pucker job of cleaning the SL Helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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