The criticsism of Mark Ashton

[Gert Mare]

We won a game against a side in the bottom 3 and suddenly we are Barcelona.

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Dollymarie said:

Exactly this. 

No it's not it's rubbish. I was over the moon we won Saturday and hope we win every game we play . i do agree with the op in regards MA  even if I was one to have a pop at him last night. It's frustration , frustration of not understanding how the most inept manager in our history has bought 19 players , spent £15m plus , made us worse , on  the verge of relegation and he still got his job. But it's ok we won Saturday , our 4th win in about 27 games so let's paper over those massive cracks shall we. 

[steviestevieneville]

33 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

he has no say over johnson though, the chairman and the owner does,

Thats like sacking a postman because you don't like the mail you receive or sacking the paperboy because the news in the paper isn't what you want to read 

You say that but according to Lansdown MA went to him and suggested LJ (we all know it's bollocks mind) so therefore he should be accountable for his failings 

[Dynamite Red]

And yet we were told by the man himself he recommended LJ appointment to the board as THE outstanding candidate and it was his decision to review and renew his contract.

We all know that is crap and he is SL mouthpiece and puppet but you can't have it both ways either he is responsible or not. How anyone can be seen to be propping up this woefully inept manager, the man should be held to account. A lucky victory over Wigan doesn't change that.

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

A solid defence of MA whom I have stuck up for in the past.

Ultimately it's a results business though and we've had an appalling season thus far and could well end up being relegated having spent more than most in this division. 

That's what he should ultimately be judged on.

Yes the head coach is useless, but MA was fully behind his appointment and apparently continues to be.

When LJ eventually goes MAs position looks untenable to me.

The important word in your post, Kid, is "apparently".

[Kid in the Riot]

1 hour ago, 8MenWith1Dream said:

Has to be doesn't he mate? He can't come out and say he wants him gone, because ultimately Steve calls all the shots in that regard and Steve is still MA's boss at the end of the day.

Who knows what's happened behind closed doors, maybe he's suggested to SL that LJ should be sacked? I doubt it, just speculating.

 

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

he has no say over johnson though, the chairman and the owner does,

Thats like sacking a postman because you don't like the mail you receive or sacking the paperboy because the news in the paper isn't what you want to read 

Then get rid of him anyway as his role is utterly pointless.

At the end of the day football/business is a harsh world and people don't want to be associated with failure, and he is failing.

Of course this doesn't entirely solve the bigger problem which is the incompetence at the very top but MA cannot be absolved from blame.

[Port Said Red]

So he can go on the show, answer all the questions in his usual manner and will be accused by the large majority of detractors of being "full of it" of "using corporate bull" of "towing the party line"  of "being a suit" and generally totally disregarded and denounced. 

Or

He can think to himself "what's the point? I have seen what the fans think and it's a waste of my time and energies that I can apply to help improve a poor situation.

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

But that's misleading. It's a raw fact in itself but it doesn't tell the whole story.

• Ekstrand was taken off at HT v Derby and never seen again, had injury problems and gone.
• Lucic and Moore were brought for future basically.
• Tammy was injured.
• Engvall is a pure mystery.

The others not being there I suspect is a mix that some were brought for depth, some are victims of LJ's random selection policy and some are victims of his man management...oh and Matthews has an appalling attitude.

I think you're agreeing with the point I made. Two players signed for the future, and two injured (plus Giefer) leaves 14 players and only 3 managed to start. Of all the signings only Magnusson, Wright, Djuric and Tammy have looked consistently good. Even Cotterill's form has begun to slip. With the signing of Wright we haven't gained much, if anything, as it means Magnusson has been dropped. Even Djuric can't be guaranteed a start when he's fit. However, I definitely agree with you that part of the problem must be LJ's random selections and failure to get the best from the players. 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 hour ago, Cheesleysmate said:

We won a game against a side in the bottom 3 and suddenly we are Barcelona.

Don't moan...any excuse!

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

I think you're agreeing with the point I made. Two players signed for the future, and two injured (plus Giefer) leaves 14 players and only 3 managed to start. Of all the signings only Magnusson, Wright, Djuric and Tammy have looked consistently good. Even Cotterill's form has begun to slip. With the signing of Wright we haven't gained much, if anything, as it means Magnusson has been dropped. Even Djuric can't be guaranteed a start when he's fit. However, I definitely agree with you that part of the problem must be LJ's random selections and failure to get the best from the players. 

That's the coach to blame basically, not the players IMO. Hordur is our best defender- and I hesitate to say it a bit after Flint's goal Saturday, but moving forward I think in a back 4 Wright and him should be our pair next season if we stay up. Or in a back 3. Also 19 signings by defininition- only 11 can play and 7 on bench max. Ekstrand was one of the 19 and he was released and had injury issues.

Of the signings to my mind v Norwich, Hordur, Brownhill, Hegeler, Djuric and Taylor should all have been in the XI. Oh and Giefer was injured vs Norwich too almost forgot about him but he doesn't convince me.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

You say that but according to Lansdown MA went to him and suggested LJ (we all know it's bollocks mind) so therefore he should be accountable for his failings 

but when he recommended him he was a failure, he kept us up when we were cut adrift,

Every single manager in the world will become a failure that's fact, with a handful going against the grain

[Monkeh]

13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

 

Then get rid of him anyway as his role is utterly pointless.

At the end of the day football/business is a harsh world and people don't want to be associated with failure, and he is failing.

Of course this doesn't entirely solve the bigger problem which is the incompetence at the very top but MA cannot be absolved from blame.

how is he failing? he was brought in to get transfer deals over the line he has done that, the people failing are our chief scout (who has been removed) and our head coach

[Nibor]

Lansdown is responsible for picking the manager, you'd be daft to think otherwise regardless of what is said officially.  He carries the can, and he is why we have LJ.

MA is responsible for the players that come in.  I think on that front he's done well.

He needs to be more visible when things are going badly and I'd like to understand what is going on with Engvall - if he's as far off the pace as Wes Burns mouthy old man seems to think then we have a problem but I take that with a truckload of salt given the source, maybe he just needs a chance.

Overall I think most of the problems on the footballing side of the club over the years are attributable to SL.  He's done some good things, and some very silly things.  This unwarranted faith in LJ is certainly the latter.

[Sweeneys Penalties]

The fact that Mark Ashton didn't engage with Radio Bristol says everything you need to know about the Club at the moment. It doesn't need more words..the silence is deafening enough. If we floating around the play off zone, the Club would be badgering local radio trying to get as much voice and presence out there as possible. It doesn't wish to advertise the failure of a season any more than it has to.

Perhaps SL will do a Q and A session at an away day somewhere before the end of the season...he has previously

[RedM]

Mark Ashton isn't the bad guy in all this. When he first arrived I was unsure as I listened to someone with an axe to grind, I've since changed my opinion. There are people connected with Bristol Sport who possibly do less good than him, believe me he is ok.

[Kid in the Riot]

18 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

how is he failing? he was brought in to get transfer deals over the line he has done that, the people failing are our chief scout (who has been removed) and our head coach

Our Chief Scout who we got from a Premier League club and has now left us for a Premier League club.

If you are saying we've scouted the wrong players then that is MA's fault too because he is very specifically in charge of 'talent identification systems' as he calls them as well as player recruitment. The Chief Scout is therefore one of HIS team of staff.

He said when he came in that his job was to work very closely with LJ to ensure the right signings were being made as part of an overall strategy. This is failing spectacularly, most recently evidenced by only 3 of 19 signings made by LJ/MA being in Saturday's starting line-up. Not to mention the fact we've just been winning sod all games.

[Red-Robbo]

14 minutes ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

The fact that Mark Ashton didn't engage with Radio Bristol says everything you need to know about the Club at the moment. It doesn't need more words..the silence is deafening enough. If we floating around the play off zone, the Club would be badgering local radio trying to get as much voice and presence out there as possible. It doesn't wish to advertise the failure of a season any more than it has to.

Perhaps SL will do a Q and A session at an away day somewhere before the end of the season...he has previously

It very much is a case of "Lansdown has spoken" and there isn't a lot more to say on the ongoing situation unless he changes his mind.

I'm sure I'm not the only person here who has had to state "the company line" for his employer, without having a massive degree of belief in it.  People do that all the time. It might be a case of MA not wishing to repeat that company line on air when he has less confidence in LJ then Lansdown has?  And let's be realistic here, few people resign from a well-paid job because they disagree with one decision their boss has made. 

[Fiale]

I imagine MA will be sacraficed at some point, all problems, failures, blame,  bundled up in a MA sized package rammed down his throat and then let go by the club. He will receive a nice compensation package that included not talking about his time at the club beyond "I had a good time there" "wish them well for the future" "Looking to the future myself now". And then we continue the whole thing again - I imagine even he knows that his head is being sized up for the block, it cannot be easy going day by day wondering when the axe will fall. 

[shelts]

4 hours ago, frenchred said:

No point MA going on, he is just another puppet to our dictator, can only say what Sir Steve wants him to

Is that the same Sir Steve that financed the league and cup double under Cotts?

[Portland Bill]

5 hours ago, 8MenWith1Dream said:

Morning all. Woke up and read Twentyman's tweet about MA declining an interview so naturally came on here to see the meltdown, and I wasn't disappointed.

I just do not get the constant scapegoating of Mark Ashton. If we look at his time at the club, he joined and instantly brought in Tomlin and a few other established players when we didn't even have a head coach, and ultimately the signing of Tomlin and the "new manager bounce" from last season probably kept us up.

Onto this summer, and I think we did some outstanding business. It's clear what the plan of the club is, get young players in and develop them and sell them for more, we've been trying that model for years, and some of the signings like Moore, O'Dowda, Magnusson, Brownhill etc have all showed great promise. Those four combined cost us a total of £6m (roughly), if one of them goes onto be a top player at this level we'll have made our money back straight away.

In a world where your Grant Hanley's are going for £6m and your Alex Pritchard's go for £8m, Ashton brings in Championship quality for a fraction of the price. Bailey Wright for £500k was an unbelievable bit of business, Paterson for £500k which on the face of it looked fantastic and I firmly believe we haven't seen the best of him yet; he was fantastic at Huddersfield last season.

Added with that, he has also made some strong foreign recruits. Hegeler looked the real deal for the first few games and Djuric has made an immediate impact, as well as obviously Magnusson. Engvall hasn't quite worked out yet, but he's 20 years old, let's not write him off.

I think he's done some very astute business and I also believe the blame lies solely with the head coach for not getting the best out of this squad. I think we can all agree that our position isn't a fair reflection of the squad we currently possess.

This club has needed a proper "footballing" businessman for years, we now have one who seems to be well respected in the footballing world and is able to seek us a bargain.

I know some get wound up by the "corporate talk" but I'm not sure what you really expect to be honest, I think it's more a reflection of the way the game has gone. It's an expensive game and is becoming more and more middle class.

I don't blame him for not going on Geoff's show last night, what's there to say that hasn't already been said? Pemberton sacking was explained (whether it was true or not) and Johnson will be here next season, nothing we can do about it.

I'm far from a "happy clapper", anything but in fact, but I firmly believe that all this club needs is an established head coach to move us forward. I would love it to be Lee Johnson and it would be brilliant if he achieved what his dad couldn't in getting us to the Premier League, but I just can't see it personally.

He seems to be a good man, he's approachable from personal experience and he cares about this club. Let's see where he can take us.

Up the City!

Good post, more than happy to read what you believe. But.... ultimately if his transfer dealings have been so good, then why are we in a relegation battle, plus why we're only three of the 19 signings deemed good enough to play for us last week? 

Its not hard to sign players when you have been given millions of pounds by the owner, its signing the correct players to fit into the shape and style of play needed in this division. 

The money spent clearly says that MA has been a failure this season along with LJ.

[frenchred]

35 minutes ago, shelts said:

Is that the same Sir Steve that financed the league and cup double under Cotts?

Yep and the same sir Steve who appointed Coppell, O Dismal and Johnson.

The same Sir Steve who said last time we were in the championship relegation is not an option!

 

your point being?

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Monkeh said:

but when he recommended him he was a failure, he kept us up when we were cut adrift,

Every single manager in the world will become a failure that's fact, with a handful going against the grain

To be honest that's a terrible excuse saying every manager fails. To a point yes they do but usually with some success in between . What has LJ done , anywhere . Nothing . If you can't see how poor his tactics and team selection are then I worry for you . So the question is. What did MA see in Johnson to go to the board and say , this is the man ? A forward thinking bright young coach apparently !!! 

The words as well , HEAD COACH what does he coach exactly . Apart from O'dowda and possibly Brownhill everyone else has regressed . 

[WestfieldRed]

Mark Ashton has done and continues to do a cracking job for this club.

When he was with us as a consultant prior to working at Oxford he was heavily involved with building the squad that went on to win titles... He was also a part of the crucial work done with the academy which earned us Category 2 status.

He then left and within 12 months we had the most unproductive summer in the transfer market that I've known, this can't be a coincidence...

Since his return our recruitment has been given a lift and we've shipped in a whole squad's worth of senior players in 9 months.

If Lee Johnson can't get the best out of those players then that's on him.

But blaming Mark Ashton is wrong.

[GoodridgeandGoater]

It's hard for us to say how good a job he's doing as a negotiator. Signings seem a mixed bag but it's meant to be LJ who picks the players for MA to go get. 

He's an easy scapegoat when we're doing badly. He doesn't help himself with corporate jargon which makes him sound like David Brent without the jokes. Fans aren't stupid. 

[WestfieldRed]

3 minutes ago, GoodridgeandGoater said:

It's hard for us to say how good a job he's doing as a negotiator. Signings seem a mixed bag but it's meant to be LJ who picks the players for MA to go get. 

He's an easy scapegoat when we're doing badly. He doesn't help himself with corporate jargon which makes him sound like David Brent without the jokes. Fans aren't stupid. 

I think getting £15m for Kodjia and recovering 750% of our investment inside 12 months is good business, particularly given Kodjia's intentions and the Tammy loan who was (until things went belly up) a good replacement.

So what exactly is wrong with the language that Ashton uses? Could it not be the case that some fans are stupid, or that they just resent Ashton because he's a clever chap who is making a very good living buying and selling footballers for our favourite club?

[CotswoldRed]

Better to come on here and justify the timing, the silence and the lack of clarity, rather than criticising concerned fans who have legitimate reasons to want to know more... from a man who's quite willing to talk when all is well. 

[shelts]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

Yep and the same sir Steve who appointed Coppell, O Dismal and Johnson.

The same Sir Steve who said last time we were in the championship relegation is not an option!

 

your point being?

So what's your point?

[BCFC_Dan]

"Our club is run in an amateurish, unprofessional way. It's a disgrace!"

[club appoints a professional]

"Our club is run by smarmy suits. It's a disgrace!"

[Monkeh]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Our Chief Scout who we got from a Premier League club and has now left us for a Premier League club.

If you are saying we've scouted the wrong players then that is MA's fault too because he is very specifically in charge of 'talent identification systems' as he calls them as well as player recruitment. The Chief Scout is therefore one of HIS team of staff.

He said when he came in that his job was to work very closely with LJ to ensure the right signings were being made as part of an overall strategy. This is failing spectacularly, most recently evidenced by only 3 of 19 signings made by LJ/MA being in Saturday's starting line-up. Not to mention the fact we've just been winning sod all games.

Mark Ashton doesn't pick the team, doesn't chose the tactics, doesn't pick the players to sign, his job is to get deals done and implement instructions from above which he has done rather well,

the fault lays with those above him and those responsible for picking the team and the tactics

[GoodridgeandGoater]

3 hours ago, WestfieldRed said:

I think getting £15m for Kodjia and recovering 750% of our investment inside 12 months is good business, particularly given Kodjia's intentions and the Tammy loan who was (until things went belly up) a good replacement.

So what exactly is wrong with the language that Ashton uses? Could it not be the case that some fans are stupid, or that they just resent Ashton because he's a clever chap who is making a very good living buying and selling footballers for our favourite club?

Yes - Kodjia good business. Tammy as replacement also great (though if press is to be believed LJ did a good job in personally persuading him to come). But jury's out on how we've spent the Kodjia money (e.g. Engvall). My point was more negotiations behind the scenes on fees / wages etc are mainly invisible to us so we don't know what he's like as a negotiator. Happy to assume he knows what he's doing. 

On his chat - when people use jargon they are often avoiding addressing what is actually going on. When MA comes out to explain the odd-looking decision to sack the assistant manager for drawing vs Burton by talking about 'key stakeholders' (I've never heard players called that before) and throwing out buzzwords like he's at a team-building workshop ('unity. focus. determination. discipline), people are entitled to feel patronised.  But - my point was that gets scrutinised when we're not doing well. He could chat as much hot air as he likes if the team is winning. Same goes for LJ.