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£10M ... the cost of true friendship


headhunter

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1 hour ago, NickJ said:

I have always believed that football club owners are custodians for the benefit of the fans who they represent and who are the true spiritual owners.

On that basis, there is a moral issue and there is a legal issue here.

Legally, Steve Lansdown can do what the hell he likes.

 

I've said it before but I'd take non-league football in a heartbeat if it meant that the fans owned 51% of the club. Football clubs should be inclusive, a place to have a laugh, make new friends, sing some songs and most importantly, representative of its local area. Success should be welcomed but not at the expense of the fans and the club. 

It is for that reason that I've fallen out of love with the club. Not the football, but I don't feel like my club represents me anymore. 

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8 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I've said it before but I'd take non-league football in a heartbeat if it meant that the fans owned 51% of the club. Football clubs should be inclusive, a place to have a laugh, make new friends, sing some songs and most importantly, representative of its local area. Success should be welcomed but not at the expense of the fans and the club. 

It is for that reason that I've fallen out of love with the club. Not the football, but I don't feel like my club represents me anymore. 

You could always buy a share in Bath City FC! 

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15 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I've said it before but I'd take non-league football in a heartbeat if it meant that the fans owned 51% of the club. Football clubs should be inclusive, a place to have a laugh, make new friends, sing some songs and most importantly, representative of its local area. Success should be welcomed but not at the expense of the fans and the club. 

It is for that reason that I've fallen out of love with the club. Not the football, but I don't feel like my club represents me anymore. 

Must admit watching the news last night I was quite envious of the announcement that Swindon's ST are planning to purchase the County Ground. They plan on raising £1.2m to buy it and then raising money to make ground improvements. Will give the community a real stake in its local football club. We, as City fans, have nothing.

7 minutes ago, john from high littleton said:

You could always buy a share in Bath City FC! 

Or Exeter. I'm sorely tempted.

All we are is Guernsey Billionaire's Plaything FC at the moment.

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1 hour ago, ernie goodthing said:

If were a billionaire (I can only imagine..) spending £10-15m a year to receive adulation, plaudits and general love could seem like a good deal.  Conversely, £10-15m a year to be insulted and told I don't know what I am doing would start to seem a very bad deal that  I might want to call a halt to.

This is though, SL's been the man in charge for well over a decade. All the decisions have been his. Whether he gets plaudits or the occasional criticism on social media is a consequence of his decisions, not ours. In all that time I've never heard a chant against him our any direct criticism to his face...he's done very well I'd say. 

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4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Must admit watching the news last night I was quite envious of the announcement that Swindon's ST are planning to purchase the County Ground. They plan on raising £1.2m to buy it and then raising money to make ground improvements. Will give the community a real stake in its local football club. We, as City fans, have nothing.

Or Exeter. I'm sorely tempted.

All we are is Guernsey Billionaire's Plaything FC at the moment.

I know of a few who were City diehards for years home and away.

They now don't bother with City and have ST's at Forest Green.

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18 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Must admit watching the news last night I was quite envious of the announcement that Swindon's ST are planning to purchase the County Ground. They plan on raising £1.2m to buy it and then raising money to make ground improvements. Will give the community a real stake in its local football club. We, as City fans, have nothing.

Or Exeter. I'm sorely tempted.

All we are is Guernsey Billionaire's Plaything FC at the moment.

The problem is that the only way any City fans organisation could get their hands on a stake of the club would be if

a) SL has a massive change of heart and gifts the club to the fans (which is about as likely as Mangotsfield winning the FA cup next year).

b) The fans actively run the club into the ground in order to raise it from the ashes, which there is no appetite for (which I should add is fine).

Basicly it won't happen unless something massive changes like SL decides to re-name us the Bristol Pirates...

12 minutes ago, NickJ said:

I know of a few who were City diehards for years home and away.

They now don't bother with City and have ST's at Forest Green.

I'm watching Brislington and Mangotsfield (still deciding where to go next season) at the moment and it is a refreshing change from AG.

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26 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I've said it before but I'd take non-league football in a heartbeat if it meant that the fans owned 51% of the club. Football clubs should be inclusive, a place to have a laugh, make new friends, sing some songs and most importantly, representative of its local area. Success should be welcomed but not at the expense of the fans and the club. 

It is for that reason that I've fallen out of love with the club. Not the football, but I don't feel like my club represents me anymore. 

Hear hear, I totally agree.

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51 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

It must be true. It's not like SL has already proven otherwise by sacking any other member of that family...! 

This memory will be part of the muddle that is SL's mind right now and to my way of thinking, influencing his current thinking. It is one thing to fire a friend; quite another to fire your friend's child. 

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3 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Does anybody on here really reckon that SL became a billionaire, one of the world's richest 1000 people by putting personal relationships before business.

Loyalty to your friends is an admirable trait but I believe should we lose tonight that's LJ gone.

(For the sake of clarity I'm not suggesting that SL is or has any connections with the Mafia);)

 

 

Not the Mafia. Perhaps a more local association?

Merchant Venturers? Or the other esteemed group at the bottom of Park Street?

You knows the one. Where Duric is trying to slide into on his knees :)

By the way I love the reference to going to watch non-league at Mangotsfield or Brislington.

Wasn't that long ago both had their own local versions of SL bankrolling them. One into UPVC windows and doors, the other a **** off cigar smoking undischarged bankrupt.

There at all levels of football. 

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Just want to say, I would rather SL continue to run the club than the fans.

Just looking at and reading the many differing views on the small gene pool that is otib. And even taking in to account that in the real world, your average fan is perhaps not as foolish as some of the numptys on here. I still think fan ownership would lead to world war 3

How on earth anyone thinks that would be an agreeable or easy transition, is beyond me!

 

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4 minutes ago, john from high littleton said:

Just want to say, I would rather SL continue to run the club than the fans.

Just looking at and reading the many differing views on the small gene pool that is otib. And even taking in to account that in the real world, your average fan is perhaps not as foolish as some of the numptys on here. I still think fan ownership would lead to world war 3

How on earth anyone thinks that would be an agreeable or easy transition, is beyond me!

 

The difference is between being fan owned and fan run. Bayern Munich are fan owned but they are not run by the fans. The transition would be easier than you think because everyone would keep their jobs at BCFC and nothing would change. The only difference is accountability. At the moment the people who run Bristol City run it for SL and his desires. In a fan owned club, these people put the fans desires first because that is who they are accountable to.

We're not talking about an Ebbsfleet model (where I believe the fans voted on whether to sell us Akinde) where every fan has a direct say in every decision. 

The proof that it works is every German club, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. Put simply, three of the top five most successful clubs in the European Cup/Champions League, including the most successful team ever, are owned by the clubs members (the fans). 

In addition you can buy a season ticket and Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid for less than a ST in the Lansdown stand. And that is the combined cost of those three clubs, not individually. You could pick and choose two of the three for a similar price to the South Stand too.

English football is mental by global standards, and clubs like Huddersfield, who may not be fan owned, are showing that a fan focused approach at least works. SL wants Premier League football above all else, that is his main priority, and until that changes, the club will drift ever further from the people of South Bristol. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

The difference is between being fan owned and fan run. Bayern Munich are fan owned but they are not run by the fans. The transition would be easier than you think because everyone would keep their jobs at BCFC and nothing would change. The only difference is accountability. At the moment the people who run Bristol City run it for SL and his desires. In a fan owned club, these people put the fans desires first because that is who they are accountable to.

We're not talking about an Ebbsfleet model (where I believe the fans voted on whether to sell us Akinde) where every fan has a direct say in every decision. 

The proof that it works is every German club, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. Put simply, three of the top five most successful clubs in the European Cup/Champions League, including the most successful team ever, are owned by the clubs members (the fans). 

In addition you can buy a season ticket and Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid for less than a ST in the Lansdown stand. And that is the combined cost of those three clubs, not individually. You could pick and choose two of the three for a similar price to the South Stand too.

English football is mental by global standards, and clubs like Huddersfield, who may not be fan owned, are showing that a fan focused approach at least works. SL wants Premier League football above all else, that is his main priority, and until that changes, the club will drift ever further from the people of South Bristol. 

 

So are you guaranteed success with a fans owned club. 

How do fans agree on things? 

How does investment work, do fans have to keeping putting they're hand in there pockets? 

Do all fans have an equal share and put exactly the same about of money in? 

If things went wrong, and the club spiralled into debt, would we all have to sell the club at a loss to a rich benefactor? 

Just wondered how it works? 

 

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2 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

According to Mark Ashton he saved Oldham and turned Barnsley around and led them to the JPT final and playoff side, therefore earning his stripes. Plus, he is young, hungry and dynamic (cheap) which is the qualities that Mark looks for in all of his appointments apparently?

I'm going to say this again because it still merits a repeat. LJ HAS turned us around. When he took over we were hopeless and desperate and now we're desperate and hopeless.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jack Dawe said:

This memory will be part of the muddle that is SL's mind right now and to my way of thinking, influencing his current thinking. It is one thing to fire a friend; quite another to fire your friend's child. 

Absolute rubbish, no offence. 

A) it's no different B) LJ isn't a child. C) they are all professionals with contracts in a very cutthroat profession. 

Is SL giving LJ more time than he might with someone that he didn't know so well..? Possibly, yes. Although he has always showed good patience with managers. 

Will he sack LJ if/when he isn't convinced that he is unable to turn things around..? Yes, without a doubt he will. 

Don't be naive enough to think that this is anything other than SL (rightly or wrongly) still having faith in LJ being able to sort this out and keep us up. 

We have 5 points from our last 3 games. Maybe he's right..?! 

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5 hours ago, headhunter said:

I was in a bar last night and met a fellow City fan who is a box holder. We mutually agreed that right now, if offered, we would take a point from tonight's encounter with Huddersfield leaving us needing to win 3 from 8.

What really depressed me from our conversation was his comment that LJ had only kept his job through the bond that exists between the Lansdown and Johnson families. I think we all sort of new that but it extends right up to LJ's grandma [a regular attendee at Ashton Gate] being pally with Steve Lansdown's mum.

Like it or not this is not our club any more.

Relegation will cost in the region of £10M I reckon and that is the sum Lansdown is prepared to sacrifice to keep his man in a job. But it really is just petty cash to him. Look at it this way, he's worth £1.5 billion and £10M represents 0.66% of that wealth. Let's assume your average City fan is worth £50k [some much more and many much less] that same % of our worth would be £330. 

I pose the question, would you give a mate £330 to help him out? 

It's a very similar sum (£330) to the cost of a season ticket so next season when we are watching Bury, Rochdale etc. just think of it as our bit towards helping maintain that friendship!!!

Isn't that a bit like letting your pissed up mate drive your Ferrari because you could easily afford to replace it?

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53 minutes ago, john from high littleton said:

So are you guaranteed success with a fans owned club. 

How do fans agree on things? 

How does investment work, do fans have to keeping putting they're hand in there pockets? 

Do all fans have an equal share and put exactly the same about of money in? 

If things went wrong, and the club spiralled into debt, would we all have to sell the club at a loss to a rich benefactor? 

Just wondered how it works? 

 

No you are not guaranteed success, but many will and have argued that it will mean less success, and I'm merely pointing out that that is not the case.

There are many ways of running fan owned clubs but in essence you have a board as we do now who manage everything. Each member of the board could be contracted and re-newel of contracts rests with the fans. This could mean all fans vote once a year or two years on whether the board are doing well, or more commonly the supporters trust would be in control of such things. But again the Supporters Trust would be accountable to the wider supporters.

Certainly in Germany, the other 49% of the clubs is owned by businesses or investors. Steve Lansdown would be more than welcome to invest and own the other 49% if he so wished. Clubs that are run for the benefit of local people tend to have better relationships with local councils and can acquire public funds to improve the local area through sport.

Put simply, yes all fans have an equal voice and normally pay an annual fee to be a member. But you do not have to be a member to buy a ST, though it is encouraged.

Potentially yes, but should that ever happen the club could just as easily re-form and rent the biggest asset of the stadium which is not ideal but certainly workable. However I'm sure most fans would agree that success must not come at the expense of the club, so it would be constitutionally enshrined that the club cannot overspend and put it at risk. 

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I completely agree with OP's theory here but would go one further

I think that Steve L thinks that if he sacks LJ now then he's basically destroying his coaching career

LJ didn't have a stellar playing career and his managerial cv with Oldham Barnsley and City if sacked now would make poor reading

You'd have to think if he did get appointed again it would be non-league or league 2 only

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7 hours ago, headhunter said:

I was in a bar last night and met a fellow City fan who is a box holder. We mutually agreed that right now, if offered, we would take a point from tonight's encounter with Huddersfield leaving us needing to win 3 from 8.

What really depressed me from our conversation was his comment that LJ had only kept his job through the bond that exists between the Lansdown and Johnson families. I think we all sort of new that but it extends right up to LJ's grandma [a regular attendee at Ashton Gate] being pally with Steve Lansdown's mum.

Like it or not this is not our club any more.

Relegation will cost in the region of £10M I reckon and that is the sum Lansdown is prepared to sacrifice to keep his man in a job. But it really is just petty cash to him. Look at it this way, he's worth £1.5 billion and £10M represents 0.66% of that wealth. Let's assume your average City fan is worth £50k [some much more and many much less] that same % of our worth would be £330. 

I pose the question, would you give a mate £330 to help him out? 

It's a very similar sum (£330) to the cost of a season ticket so next season when we are watching Bury, Rochdale etc. just think of it as our bit towards helping maintain that friendship!!!

He will look like a total fool though

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6 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Only because he absolutely had to due to the incident at Plymouth. Even then the official line was that GJ left by mutual consent. It would come as no surprise that when LJ eventually goes it'll also be by mutual consent. 

99% of managers sack go my mutual consent

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6 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

The problem is that the only way any City fans organisation could get their hands on a stake of the club would be if

a) SL has a massive change of heart and gifts the club to the fans (which is about as likely as Mangotsfield winning the FA cup next year).

b) The fans actively run the club into the ground in order to raise it from the ashes, which there is no appetite for (which I should add is fine).

Basicly it won't happen unless something massive changes like SL decides to re-name us the Bristol Pirates...

I'm watching Brislington and Mangotsfield (still deciding where to go next season) at the moment and it is a refreshing change from AG.

Did you not watch this years FA Cup?

I wouldnt rule it out just yet

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9 hours ago, headhunter said:

I was in a bar last night and met a fellow City fan who is a box holder. We mutually agreed that right now, if offered, we would take a point from tonight's encounter with Huddersfield leaving us needing to win 3 from 8.

What really depressed me from our conversation was his comment that LJ had only kept his job through the bond that exists between the Lansdown and Johnson families. I think we all sort of new that but it extends right up to LJ's grandma [a regular attendee at Ashton Gate] being pally with Steve Lansdown's mum.

Like it or not this is not our club any more.

Relegation will cost in the region of £10M I reckon and that is the sum Lansdown is prepared to sacrifice to keep his man in a job. But it really is just petty cash to him. Look at it this way, he's worth £1.5 billion and £10M represents 0.66% of that wealth. Let's assume your average City fan is worth £50k [some much more and many much less] that same % of our worth would be £330. 

I pose the question, would you give a mate £330 to help him out? 

It's a very similar sum (£330) to the cost of a season ticket so next season when we are watching Bury, Rochdale etc. just think of it as our bit towards helping maintain that friendship!!!

I would suggest more than 10m, however it does not change your point, which is of course spot on. He has Made 10M since the start of this thread as his Net Worth will continue to grow exponentially!

8 hours ago, Olé said:

But the point is, he doesn't run Bristol City like a business. If he did, he wouldn't have appointed Lee Johnson.

There is no way in the world Hargreaves Lansdown would have recruited someone with two years experience and no tangible achievements into perhaps the most senior role in a multi-million pound business. Good god, in the real world there are eye watering minimum numbers of years experience to be taken seriously for senior leadership roles.

So the idea that personal relationships are NOT at work here, because of Steve Lansdown's pedigree in business and unlikelihood to have poor business judgement, holds no water, because it is self evident that where Lee Johnson is concerned, he is not applying any credible business logic - certainly none he would use in areas he made his money.

This is why, by the way, I have some sympathy with those who have had a gut full of Bristol Sport. Personally I see it as textbook business operating strategy for a group company (though easy to lampoon in the circumstances) but if you're going to be so unprofessionally and self indulgently run in other aspects, don't expect people to lap it up.

I liked the mafia angle though, but knowing our luck the horses head in Lee's bed would end up playing right back.

No he does not. This is his baby and good judgement will only extend to how much the club Bristol Sport et al can get from their clients.

Again I like the concept of Bristol Sport and don't see BS as the problem with Bristol City FC. However if you are reckless with one of your brands it will damage other brands and perception of the company in the market. AND herein lies the problem, we are talking about us and them like we are any other customer of a business. 

We are Bristol City, the supporters. Who owns tranches of shares is not an issue until you get this kind of situation between Oligarch and Fans. Our choices are stark, carry on supporting the club that we are fans of, despite of this nightmare or don't. Personally I believe SL is doing things for the right reasons and for the benefit of club and supporters, but I also believe the comments in the posts here and he is fundamentally wrong in his approach! 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Does anybody on here really reckon that SL became a billionaire, one of the world's richest 1000 people by putting personal relationships before business.

Loyalty to your friends is an admirable trait but I believe should we lose tonight that's LJ gone.

(For the sake of clarity I'm not suggesting that SL is or has any connections with the Mafia);)

 

 

That questions is for Hargreaves right?

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TBH, I am so beyond caring anymore its unbelievable.  I could have gone tonight but instead decided to just drive home after leaving work. I might watch it on the telly or I could just as easily not. I really dont care anymore. Thats one ST holder that wont be back. 

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9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I dare say that kind of stuff happens in a lot of dressing rooms tbh. Surely more to it than that? I just re-read the old article with Sproule and again yeah he had to go, lost senior players but the Sproule incident doesn't sound that shocking by football standards. I think he deserved mutual consent though because this club had good times under him.

As an aside, I also read the article and it made reference to Mr Styvar- as I thought I remembered he was a left back/left midfielder by trade who just so happened to be up front because most players were injured!

Another point from said article which could be highly relevant in getting rid of LJ

 

I think the Sproule incident was the final straw, not the first.....,

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9 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Absolute rubbish, no offence. 

A) it's no different B) LJ isn't a child. C) they are all professionals with contracts in a very cutthroat profession. 

Is SL giving LJ more time than he might with someone that he didn't know so well..? Possibly, yes. Although he has always showed good patience with managers. 

Will he sack LJ if/when he isn't convinced that he is unable to turn things around..? Yes, without a doubt he will. 

Don't be naive enough to think that this is anything other than SL (rightly or wrongly) still having faith in LJ being able to sort this out and keep us up. 

We have 5 points from our last 3 games. Maybe he's right..?! 

3 more now! Maybe he is right. Who knows? Brilliant tonight, though.

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