All Johnson haters

[city1983]

What would lee Johnson need to do to change your opinion?

for me as a rookie (not sure you are a rookie with about 4 seasons under your belt though) he needs to show that he is learning fast. He needs to pick a settled side and finish the season strongly. 

Im sure everyone would have settled for mid table this season, but should we finish mid table (albeit bottom half) this year I think "that run" where he seemed to have no idea how to grind out a result, any result, even a draw at home to Brentford, or away to Ipswich or wolves, will tarnish what would ultimately have been a perfectly acceptable season of progress with a young side. 

He the needs to show in the transfer market in the summer that he can see the problem positions and tweak the squad rather than overhaul. And we desperately need to replace Tammy's goals. If he could pull off another masterstroke like that again (and he does deserve credit for that) then I think I'd be happy to go with the status quo again next year. 

But that all seems a long way off right now.

#johnson out

[BobBobSuperBob]

 

This is a new and interesting thread , raising new points for discussion 

 

 

[shelts]

I'm not a hater, I hate no one but dislike many. Should've been sacked after Forest away . Ridden out the worse of it so far. If we stick with him I hope it means we've stayed up. Mini revival just in time to appease the restless natives. Keep it going LJ . 

[ChippenhamRed]

It's simple for me. With the investment on and off the pitch you expect to see incremental improvement year-on-year.

Par for this season would have been mid table (in my opinion).

Par for next season would be upper mid table, pushing play offs (in my opinion).

Therefore, I think he needs to get us to upper mid table next season to convince me that he is capable of taking us forwards. Anything less is continued underachievement.

[Robbored]

Why do some posters use the word "hate" or "haters"?

If someone doesn't rate or criticises a manager or a player it doesn't mean they "hate" that individual ffs!

Ive never hated anyone in my entire life, disliked for sure but not hated.

[BCFChayden]

He won't win a majority of us back, to much water under the bridge for some. 

[swanker]

I don't hate Johnson and don't really care who is in charge as long as we do alright.  This season has been poor from a supporters point of view though and eight defeats on the trot was depressing. If he turns it around and is a success then fair to him. We'll just have to wait and see. 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, BCFChayden said:

He won't win a majority of us back, to much water under the bridge for some. 

Fans forget the previous seasons performances if they're team is doing well. 

Should Junior create a decent team playing decent football and getting positive results next season, this recent poor run won't get a mention.....

To most football fans it's all about the here and now.

[BCFChayden]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

Fans forget the previous seasons performances if they're team is doing well. 

Should Junior create a decent team playing decent football and getting positive results next season, this recent poor run won't get a mention.....

To most football fans it's all about the here and now.

They forget till he looses 3 or 4 then we're all back here

[ChippenhamRed]

6 minutes ago, BCFChayden said:

He won't win a majority of us back, to much water under the bridge for some. 

That depends almost entirely on what he goes on to achieve. If he led us to Championship play off victory next season, would a majority still be saying "Johnson out"? Of course not.

[Engvall's Splinter]

Don't hate the bloke. Just don't think he's up to it. 

He has played a huge role in tarnishing my Saturdays for close to half a year. 

Would like him to resign / be sacked. Doesn't appear likely. I'm having to come to terms with it. 

He'd have to keep us up and deliver next season (Top 10 finish) for me to change my view. Maintain at least thereafter. 

This season hasn't been an improvement on the pitch for me and thats ideally what you want to see. 

He's not solely accountable. Lansdown has a lot to answer for. Players too yet I can understand if they don't know whether they're coming or going with constant tinkering as it may be unsettling. 

[samo II]

Hate/love.

It's not about that.

I want what is best for the football club, and it is hard to argue based off the evidence available to me (by which I mean performances and results on the pitch) that appointing LJ has been a positive improvement for us.

It's inevitable that after a solid run of results people will question the critical view points on him, but the proof will be in the pudding; can LJ get the same level of performance we saw Friday (and the inevitable results that would flow from them) on a consistent basis?

From a personal perspective; if the team show up like they did Friday every game from now till the summer, and if LJ sets us up in support of that and shows he's improved along with the team, I would be willing to see if he could learn from his myriad mistakes, recruit where we need it (not more bloody central midfielders he never played), then let him go again next year (although a whiff of a relegation fight and he'd need to be gone asap).

But that is a lot of speculation of what might happen in the face of a lot of previously built up evidence that he's not up to it, so the jury is very much out from home until we see how we fair across the next two games.

I don't "hate" him though; claiming all those who are sceptical are 'haters' is an easy way to dismiss what is a mountain of legitimate criticism LJ has brought in himself.

I want us to do well, whoever is in charge, but the doing well part is the key bit.

[redapple]

Just want him to be successful playing consistent tactics with consistent players. Having a positive mindset and while knowing what the opposition capable of, not being terrified of them. And to keep the clichés to a minimum. 

[Ring]

I don't hate LJ. What I hate is that he has been completely inept, despite having incredible financial backing, as well as having amazing support. He hasn't been able to motivate or organise a group of very good players to do anything more than get to a position where the club is in a relegation battle.

I hate that he has been instrumental in allowing the club to get to his position. I don't hate him, I hate what he has done, or hasn't done.

As far as 'what would he have to do...' is concerned, it isn't up to us to say. It's similar to asking someone why they don't believe in God and asking what would make them believe. The burden of proof is on LJ to convince us that he is the right person to do the job. It isn't up to us to say what makes him a good manager/coach. Similarly, with the god analogy, it's up to him to prove that he exists.

Im certainly not saying that LJ is anything like god, perish the thought. At least LJ exists. However, the burden of proof is his, not ours.

[CotswoldRed]

You'll need to define who you mean by haters first. 

Loaded question of the weekend award.... 

[ThreeWordCityNerd]

1 hour ago, city1983 said:

What would lee Johnson need to do to change your opinion?

win

[stokes7]

Funny someone starts a thread like this after we win ffs, although it was an awesome win. In my opinion like some others have said he shouldn't still be in a job so this question shouldn't need answering but it does, so here goes I have watched city through  highs and lows more lows than highs and have never felt so demoralized watching them as I have this season, and the reason for that is LJ I've never seen so many turn on the club as they have this season, there has been a massive wedge between the club and supporters this year because of him still having a job, we have on the whole had to witness dire football yet supporters have still been behind team. For me even if keeps us up I don't want him in charge but I think we are stuck with him, it will take an awful lot to win me round and I don't mean having a good start to the season because when things are going well he's ok, I just don't think he handles pressure and panics hence the capitulation since Cardiff away, maybe this will be the making of him and I hope he proves me wrong because it will mean we are being successful. 

[supercidered]

Does anyone actually hate him? I would say no. Bad dress sense and talks bollocks. Yes!

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Why do some posters use the word "hate" or "haters"?

If someone doesn't rate or criticises a manager or a player it doesn't mean they "hate" that individual ffs!

Ive never hated anyone in my entire life, disliked for sure but not hated.

Agree RR.

Far too many on here convey hatred in the way they post. Ive no problem with fans being critical of LJ's and the teams performance, but sometimes opinions lose any objectivity because of the personal nature of the abuse directed at LJ.

I've said before that I think one of LJ's main weaknesses has been that he has tried too hard to be a clever coach, and tried to do this by outthinking the opposition manager. This, I think, is the reason for all the chops and changes we have seen all to often.

For me, if we stay up this season, then he can start convincing me by finding and picking his best team, and sticking with it as far as is possible. Friday, and the  first halves at Derby and Newcastle have shown that we have the players more than capable of competing at this level and LJ now needs to demonstrate that he can as well. As long as he still has the players onside ( hopefully Friday shows that he has) then this is more than possible.

Whether he can convince those that made their minds up about him before he managed his first game is another matter!

Ultimately results will prove his ability and if we are challenging in the top 6 this time next season, then I am pretty sure many fans' opinions will have shifted.

 

 

[mozo]

We need to push on to be a top half Championship side (could have happened this season).

If he can oversee that then he's fine by me.

[Lanterne Rouge]

4 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Does anyone actually hate him? I would say no. Bad dress sense and talks bollocks. Yes!

I should hope not. It is possible to hate what someone is doing but you cannot hate the person without knowing them IMO. I have only ever truly hated about three people and members of one particular section of society in my sixty or so years, all for the reason that their deliberate and malicious actions have caused unnecessary suffering for me or my family and I have no issue with saying that I hate those people and will until my dying breath. I cannot hate a football manager who is failing at his job no matter how much I dislike what is happening.

[glastonred]

My opinion hasn't changed at all. I've never wavered in my support for Johnson despite the recent dark times. Admittedly one of the very few to still keep the faith, and not be too afraid to say so. I desperately want him to succeed, and think he'll come out of this stronger and wiser. I don't really care if people think I'm being naive. I believe in loyalty, and although the Fulham game tested my resolve, I truly pray we can improve our performances in the last few matches and finish the season in a relatively 'comfortable' position several points above the drop zone. 

[jayjay]

36 minutes ago, The Ring said:

I don't hate LJ. What I hate is that he has been completely inept, despite having incredible financial backing, as well as having amazing support. He hasn't been able to motivate or organise a group of very good players to do anything more than get to a position where the club is in a relegation battle.

Totally agree with the above.

However, what really worries me is that Johnson appears to be "unsackable" due the blind patronage of Mr Lansdown.

What also worries me is that if Johnson believes that he is "unsackable", this is unlikely to motivate him and keep him hungry.

[Ska Junkie]

I don't 'hate' the bloke at all, I don't know him. I do question his ability to coach at this level however but I know he's staying. I do appreciate he's learning the job, which is a mistake by the club IMHO, as it could see us relegated and I hope he has learnt enough to make next season more comfortable however I remain a sceptic.

I hope he turn out to be the coach SL and the board say he will be but I would also question his allegiance to us if he did. IF he did become the messiah some think he will be and one of the Prem boys come calling, would he be as loyal to the club as the club are to him?

[RedRidingHood]

It takes a great deal of energy to actually hate. Energy that I personally prefer to expend doing something I enjoy. 

[JammyOne]

LJ could take us to Prem and he would still have haters on OTIB.

[...]

2 hours ago, city1983 said:

What would lee Johnson need to do to change your opinion?

for me as a rookie (not sure you are a rookie with about 4 seasons under your belt though) he needs to show that he is learning fast. He needs to pick a settled side and finish the season strongly. 

Im sure everyone would have settled for mid table this season, but should we finish mid table (albeit bottom half) this year I think "that run" where he seemed to have no idea how to grind out a result, any result, even a draw at home to Brentford, or away to Ipswich or wolves, will tarnish what would ultimately have been a perfectly acceptable season of progress with a young side. 

He the needs to show in the transfer market in the summer that he can see the problem positions and tweak the squad rather than overhaul. And we desperately need to replace Tammy's goals. If he could pull off another masterstroke like that again (and he does deserve credit for that) then I think I'd be happy to go with the status quo again next year. 

But that all seems a long way off right now.

#johnson out

I ****** love Lee Johnson.

I don't want anything to change, and in any case that nasty John Pemberton is gone now.

I now fully expect us to win our remaining 8 games, and finish high mid-table.

Lee is now blossoming into the future England manager we all thought was the case last year.

Premiership and European footy awaits those of us that show true patience.

 

tfPemberton

[BrizzleRed]

As all have already said, 'haters' isn't a word I'd use, as it's not a question of hating the bloke.  Johnson 'outers' would be more appropriate imho.

A big worry with him is he doesn't appear capable of learning from his mistakes  and just repeats them at his next club.  He had a horrendous losing run at Barnsley apparently and we're all painfully aware of what he did to us.  He gives a very strong impression of someone who has no clear idea of what he needs his team to do and the right mix of players to achieve the required result. This is why the jibe about his tombola team selection seems really appropriate, as he just seems to be continually tinkering and throwing random players into the mix, in the hope that he may strike lucky.

I'm far from convinced he's got what it takes to be a decent Head Coach and it would be very hard to have any trust in him after this season's debacle and I'd rather see him gone at the end of the season.  Granted the display against Huddersfield was brilliant and gave a glimmer of hope, so firstly he needs to show that wasn't a 'one off' by the players for the TV cameras. IF he can do that and start to show he now knows his best team and stops tinkering, continues with the positive tactics he showed against Huddersfield and stops being so frightened of the opposition, he may have a chance.

I still think he's used up a massive amount of goodwill and the first sign of things going wrong would mean the knives would be straight out again with many. If LJ was a cat, I would say he's now have only one of his 9 lives left, so there will be no tolerence for any more balls ups!  Unfortunately I think he's going to have to live with the fact that he will go down in history as the most divisive manager/head coach in living memory at the club, but if he does stay, it's his responsibility to convince us he's learned from this awful season and prove he's genuinely up to the job.  He also needs to start living up to the hype he was given when he got the job.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, RedRidingHood said:

It takes a great deal of energy to actually hate. Energy that I personally prefer to expend doing something I enjoy. 

Which is why I try to do it only sparingly and direct it at someone who deserves it and not just a person I have a mild dislike towards.

[cityexile]

What I 'hate' is our form for six months. The constant tinkering with systems and players. 

As for LJ, my issue on top of all that, is a sense he is a poor man manager. Probably the most important factor for me is after a season I was no clearer what a LJ team looked like. How did he want us to play? You can forgive a lot if you have some clarity what the end goal is and what we are working towards.

I have to say the last game saw some of that emerge, and that is a +1 is a balance sheet that is heavily overdrawn. Not just the result, but you could see what we were trying to do.

First and foremost he has to keep us up. Secondly, next season he needs a much sharper vision of how to wants to play, that we can see on the pitch. His issue is that he is so heavily overdrawn in my faith, he will not be able to afford to many bumps on the way. Right now, until hopefully we are safe he will only be viewed as good as his last result. It was the consecutive home defeats by Brentford and Preston where I first thought 'um, we are in some trouble here' and we really could do with something from those games. I see the Wigan result as the mirror of our Charlton one from last year. We still need our 'Fulham' one in my view.

Like most fans I am fickle. It is about results, and ideally playing well. He is very very lucky to still be here, but to be completely honest if we had changed our manager six games ago, we would now be talking of a good new manager bounce!