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Rosenior, very harsh on our club


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17 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

he lasted a month then we appointed danny wilson

This is exactly why Leroy Rosenior would think the fact he wasn't appointed stinks of racism. Had Fawthrop not been appointed but Wilson given the job there and then and then gone on, as he did, to manage us for four decent seasons, Rosenior might well have thought City wanted someone more experienced and their decision had proven to be right. However, they appointed a member of the trio who had no experience at league management level, and has had none since, had never played for City....Indeed, I believe he never played league football, then just a month into his tenure he had to be relieved of his duties for allegedly dodgy dealings!

Out of the trio who successfully managed us in a caretaker capacity, it was Leroy Rosenior who was the one who seemed to be the public face for the trio having been a popular player for the club. It is all very well others saying he had no experience, but the board appointed one of the trio who also had no experience. If they were determined to appoint from within the trio, which they did, Leroy was the best candidate by far. As subsequent events just a month after the decision proved!

If I was a black man, and a popular face for the company I was employed by, who had done well in a job sharing opportunity but when that job was allocated solely to one of the sharers it went to a white guy with not much kudos in the workplace who, after a month, was relieved of his duties for effectively being unsuitable, I would think I had been the victim of racism... Particularly as racism was that more prevalent nearly twenty years ago when all this occurred. So I don't understand why Leroy Rosenior is getting such a tough time from a fair few on here for stating what to me is obvious and also seemed obvious at the time!

Can those who were around at the time honestly say that when Fawthrop was appointed that they didn't think to themselves that the reason Leroy Rosenior didn't get it was because he was black? Did they really think 100% that Fawthrop got it because he was the better man for the job? 

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Well that's one book I certainly won't be buying. There is no proof either way . If it was because of his colour. He has no proof just an assumption. But let's drag the name of Bristol city through the dirt . Poor show Leroy IMO . I'm not saying it doesn't happen back then and now. But in 2017 . Is this acceptable against white people were they actually state if you're white don't apply

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670266/BBC-advert-white-people-ethnic-equality-staff-job-internship/amp . Is that ok in this day and age . Or doesn't it matter because it's against white people . Imagine this the other way around. I'm not offended by it . But that's concrete proof. Not a gut feeling to maybe help sell a book 

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9 hours ago, RedDave said:

He thinks he was hard done by based on his skin colour.  Nobody can dispute that other than the decision makers at the time.  I assume he truly believes it so I don't see what's wrong with him voicing it.  

For him then to get abuse for it is astounding really 

Yeah, I mean hes proven what a top top coach he is elsewhere hasn't he..

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8 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Well that's one book I certainly won't be buying. There is no proof either way . If it was because of his colour. He has no proof just an assumption. But let's drag the name of Bristol city through the dirt . Poor show Leroy IMO . I'm not saying it doesn't happen back then and now. But in 2017 . Is this acceptable against white people were they actually state if you're white don't apply

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/670266/BBC-advert-white-people-ethnic-equality-staff-job-internship/amp . Is that ok in this day age . Or doesn't it matter because it's against white people . Imagine this the other way around. 

Of course it isn't classed as racist because it is against white people - coming from the BBC as well. Reverse it and they would be reporting it as racism.

What would have been said 20 years ago if someone started (or tried starting) an awards show for music achievements for white people only? There would have been complaints everywhere and it would never have got off the ground, let alone its own show on TV. But change it to the MOBOs and jobs a good 'un.

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Actually if you read what he says rather than the small part thats been sensationalised he questions why he overlooked by someone who was seen as a fixer and who had no coaching badges or experience and its almost like a rhetorical question asking if it was because he's black, and if any of us were in a similar position i think we probably would as well so it isn't necessarily playing the race card

He goes on to say when Danny Wilson was appointed he had no complaints because it was a proper football person who had bis badges and more experience. 

So i don't think he is being particularly harsh and he still lives in the Bristol area so can't be that indifferent either

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1 hour ago, wood_red said:

Of course it isn't classed as racist because it is against white people - coming from the BBC as well. Reverse it and they would be reporting it as racism.

What would have been said 20 years ago if someone started (or tried starting) an awards show for music achievements for white people only? There would have been complaints everywhere and it would never have got off the ground, let alone its own show on TV. But change it to the MOBOs and jobs a good 'un.

The MOBO's stands for Music of Black Origin, it's not fundamentally an awards show for the achievements of black people in music, it's to celebrate anyone performing music of black origin.  In fact there have been plenty of white artists who have won MOBO awards.

Once you consider that popular music from the 50's to today derives massively from black music it would be a bit rediculous to have a MOWO awards as in popular music terms, there isn't really a white origin as popular music was influenced by black music.

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2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Until the colour of skin stops being an issue to all people, racism will continue to smoulder away. 

 

Well yes, of course that is the case, but surely it is not black people's perception of discrimination that is causing racism to smoulder away...

There seems to be a basic assumption on this thread that Leroy is making something of nothing.  He has been inside football; I have not.  If he says there is racism in football, what reason have I to disbelieve him?  Frankly it seems that the only reason others in this thread have to disbelieve seems to be that he is black and therefore, in their eyes, liable to unjustified bias.  I have no reason to believe that that would be the case.

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Thinking about it, being rubbish at the job has not proved a barrier to City appointing a fair few useless ones in recent years.

Accordingly, Leroy's ability  would seem suitable for us, so there might be some justification for his grievance! 

:whistle:

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1 hour ago, wood_red said:

Of course it isn't classed as racist because it is against white people - coming from the BBC as well. Reverse it and they would be reporting it as racism.

What would have been said 20 years ago if someone started (or tried starting) an awards show for music achievements for white people only? There would have been complaints everywhere and it would never have got off the ground, let alone its own show on TV. But change it to the MOBOs and jobs a good 'un.

You know a white artist (or groups containing white artists) have won awards at every single MOBO awards ever held? 'White' winners include Eminem, All Saints, Justin Timberlake, David Roddigan, Tim Westwood, Prof Green, Rudimental, Sam Smith and Jessie J. At the first awards they even gave Mick Hucknall an award, so it's even inclusive of gingers! The MOBO awards are not music awards for black people, it's awards for musical styles that originate from predominantly black cultures in the western world. There's an argument to be made that that could include pretty much any style of popular music you can think of, but that's another debate

As for the BBC internship, I don't particularly agree with 'positive' discrimination, but the lack of representation of ethnic minorities in the TV industry is well documented and as a public institution, the BBC is bound over to try and increase such representation. I don't particularly agree with the methods, but if they went for their default 'public school educated white male' appointment to such a post, they'd probably get a bit of flack

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4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Well yes, of course that is the case, but surely it is not black people's perception of discrimination that is causing racism to smoulder away...

There seems to be a basic assumption on this thread that Leroy is making something of nothing.  He has been inside football; I have not.  If he says there is racism in football, what reason have I to disbelieve him?  Frankly it seems that the only reason others in this thread have to disbelieve seems to be that he is black and therefore, in their eyes, liable to unjustified bias.  I have no reason to believe that that would be the case.

It's not just a race issue. It relates to sex & sexuality (amongst other things) as well. 

Equal rights, in many instances have gone ass about tit and it's now fine to have groups/awards/jobs/events etc specifically for women, blacks, gays. 

There would be uproar if something was restricted to White, English, straight men only (rightly so). 

You often find that it is the minority (or whatever term you may choose to use) groups themselves that differentiate themselves from everyone else and expect individual, seperated, preferential treatment, away from the rest of an all inclusive society. 

The best plumber should be the best plumber, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion etc. 

The same should go for music artist/fireman (person!)/teacher/politician AND football manager. 

Why aren't women allowed to be football managers of men's teams..? THAT, in this day & age is a far more relevant question than why some bloke has just chosen for the release of his autobiography to make claims of racial discrimination. 

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11 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

You know a white artist (or groups containing white artists) have won awards at every single MOBO awards ever held? 'White' winners include Eminem, All Saints, Justin Timberlake, David Roddigan, Tim Westwood, Prof Green, Rudimental, Sam Smith and Jessie J. At the first awards they even gave Mick Hucknall an award, so it's even inclusive of gingers! 

It's political correctness gone mad!! 

Ginger people don't even have to pay tax! 

@Sargent Pepper

 

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16 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

It's disappointing that he feels that, he was well liked as a player here - I used to work with a West Ham fan and we both had good memories of LEEEEEERRRRROOOYYYYYY!!! the player

I agree. I really liked Leroy as a player and had huge respect for the way that he had to adapt his game & running style to overcome his knee problems. 

Since he's retired, he appears to have become a very small time media whore, who makes ludicrous statements in his media columns and now, in his own book. 

IF he really believes that he didn't get the managers job here, purely based on the fact that he has black skin, then he has done a disservice to other young black managers by making no mention of it until it was likely to increase interest in his own book, to line his own pockets. 

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1 minute ago, RedDave said:

Across this forum and social media, Leroy has now been:

1. Abused

2. Effectively called a liar

3. Told he shouldn't bring this up

4. Told he should have bought it up earlier

5. Accused of cashing in on racism

And people wonder why people don't come out and report things.... well done everyone 

you forgot 

6. people twisting posts to suit an arguement

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9 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Across this forum and social media, Leroy has now been:

1. Abused

2. Effectively called a liar

3. Told he shouldn't bring this up

4. Told he should have bought it up earlier

5. Accused of cashing in on racism

And folk wonder why people don't come out and report things.... well done everyone 

Are you saying it definitely happened then . 

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3 hours ago, wood_red said:

 

I remember Hasslebaink on Goals on Sunday when it the topic was mentioned, he basically said it was a load of nonsense and every training course he went there were hardly any black people on them getting their badges (if I remember rightly). Also said you need to start at the bottom and prove yourself etc, Barnes seemed to think he should have the right to walk in and manage the likes of Liverpool.

You could argue that if the perception (rightly or wrongly) is that you won't be given an opportunity, then why bother taking the badges? Give some kind of guarantee of an interview and then let's see if more black players take their badges.

Why aren't there more working class MPs, top judges or barristers?  No one says people are playing the 'working class card' when they complain about inequality of opportunity for the working class.  It's ok to says there's a class divide but when black men complain about racism  they 'have a chip on their shoulder'.  

As far as Rosenior goes no one will ever know the truth, but he entitled to voice his opinion.

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Its PC going mad again.  If a black man gets turned down its racism, if a woman gets turned down its sexism, if an older person is turned down, its ageism and there is another word i cant remember for people who think theyve been turned down on grounds of their religion.  9 times out of 10, its just someone making an issue out of sour grapes.

Would you turn down a gashead for a job? Well maybe if it involved horses.

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6 minutes ago, RedDave said:

Don't know why you'd ask that.  Obviously I don't but am choosing not to slag him off for mentioning it.  

That's the thing know one knows the truth. People are speculating and Leroy is speculating. I think people find it a bit strange he never mentioned it all those years ago . But now he's got a book out he's mentioned it . 

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It would be interesting to see a statistical analysis of the percentage of qualified coaches in management jobs by ethnicity.  As someone else alluded earlier there are few black players that take their coaching badges.  Part of the reason they are dissuaded from doing so, I'm sure, is down to the likes of Leroy and, particularly, Jason Roberts effectively stating at every available opportunity that there's no point in getting qualifications because you won't end up with anything in the end.

Whilst writing this I note that someone has mentioned the perception that they won't get the jobs so why do the badges, but this perception is being magnified by Jason Roberts in particular.

I would wager that going for 92 jobs in the FL you probably have ten times more white coaches than black that are "qualified" for a management / coaching role.  Therefore law of averages would suggest that more white people end up in employment as football managers than black.

Maybe if rather than imploring football club owners to change ways that they don't even know for sure they have, they would be better served encouraging their fellow black professionals to really go for it and not be put off by perceived institutionalism.  Go for your badges and show what you can do.

Increase the pool of qualified black coaches and I'm sure those suitable will start getting the jobs.  I simply do not believe in this country that in the large majority of cases (there may be one or two dodgy owners) skin tone is a barrier for football management anymore.  Football is a business, now more than ever, and owners are businessmen.  They will surely appoint the person most likely to bring them success and future windfalls rather than cutting their noses off to spite their faces.  

Back then?  Who knows.   Things were improving in terms of racism, but clearly still not quite there, so maybe there is merit to the claim.  Maybe there wasn't.  I do struggle with Leroy's notion that race played a part, particularly given it was an opinion and not a fact.  Therefore he is making that assumption based on the ethnicity of the board at the time.  Doesn't that itself smack of racist undertones?

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3 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

Increase the pool of qualified black coaches and I'm sure those suitable will start getting the jobs.  I simply do not believe in this country that in the large majority of cases (there may be one or two dodgy owners) skin tone is a barrier for football management anymore.  

Football is a business, now more than ever, and owners are businessmen.  They will surely appoint the person most likely to bring them success and future windfalls rather than cutting their noses off to spite their faces.  

That's apart from SL with  LJ, obviously - well according to many on here it is!

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