Lansdown the real story

[JHAGa]

24 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It's not my choice to be negative about everything. It's just that there is very little, if anything, to be positive about at the moment in regard to BCFC. @Olé produced a table of expenditure in the Championship this season and rest assured, we are near the top. He absolutely did have a war chest, not just spending on transfer fees but wages too ie Tomlin and O'Neill two players that came from the Premier League. As you will see from my above post the profit on Kodjia was closer to £6m so I'm afraid that does not pay for £14m worth of new signings.

Your view on LJ at Barnsley appears a little rosy, certainly more praiseworthy than most Barnsley fans. They don't think they'd be where they are now with him in charge and I'd agree. What potential do you see in LJ by the way? The question keeps getting asked but not answered...

 

Add to that the money we got for Ayling, Agard and Williams. Plus the money we got in the summer from Boalsie/Albert. If we hadn't have sold Kodjia, I agree he would have been backed massively, but we sold him with days remaining without a replacement. So we can't judge him on how well we'd have done with both. But at that point in time, we were looking very good!

 

It's not rosy, it's simply stating a truth. He built a promotion winning squad there. I'm not giving him sole credit for their promotion but he deserves credit for it regardless. I also think he did a very good job at Oldham on a limited budget.

 

Potential? I don't know, it's difficult to define. I don't pretend that I think LJ will be a Premier League manager or *insert level of ability here* in the future. I feel he did a very good job between February and October here, as much as he struggled between November and February. I think his current ability is somewhere in between those two drastic points on the scale. He's a young coach still learning in his first full season at this level and boy, he will have learned a lot this season. I think when things were going well he showed good levels of tactical astuteness, enough for me to believe in him as a manager. We've competed even when on the horrendous run, often narrowly edged out of games. I won't defend that run, nor would the manager, but we've come through that now after confidence must have been rock bottom and look to have begun making progress again recently. Apart from those two games of course, where I began to think maybe the players had lost faith, but then they responded brilliantly on Saturday. Obviously confidence can still be fragile but 2 losses from 7 with some vital wins is cause for optimism. SL obviously shares similar sentiments and I really hope his gamble pays off. Like I said, for me, we need to focus on fighting to stay up, which we've been doing a good job of since March, and regroup in the summer.

[NickJ]

37 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

Lansdown needs more awareness of how the fans feel, because you can say all you like about understanding our frustrations and appreciating us.

But if that were the case, I think 1) LJ's job would be under greater threat as only a great start will bring people back on-side next season and 2) SL wouldn't then say what he said on Saturday which was, at best, badly worded.

As with all things it's a two-way street and although not many people are calling for his head there's a fair amount of vitriol thrown at him, which for all his faults isn't really fair because he does pump his heart, soul and cash into the football club, and anyone who pretends he doesn't is kidding themselves.

Having had some time to chew over the fat of the interview I don't think it's as bad as it appeared at first glance, I think he's been cheesed off by some of the personal abuse directed at him. But he certainly didn't do himself any favours.

His unequivocal praise for MA given his role in this mess, and his chequered past, maybe should be more of a concern. I've been a big fan of MA since his return but the longer this all goes on the more it seems he's pulling the strings, and not doing it very well.

The bolded bit is a fair analysis and I do have some sympathy for Steve.

But, Steve has taken certain decisions such as share ownership changes without any meaningful dialogue, and an attitude of "its my club", and therefore has put himself up to be shot at when things aren't going well.

And of all the mistakes, the absurdity of not only the non backing of one of our most successful ever managers, but replacing him somebody who had "been on the radar" for a long time, but in fact had a far inferior record at the same level, stands out as something which was seemingly pre-planned no matter what, with a total disregard for the consequences.

 

[Robin1988]

Just now, NickJ said:

The bolded bit is a fair analysis and I do have some sympathy for Steve.

But, Steve has taken certain decisions such as share ownership changes without any meaningful dialogue, and an attitude of "its my club", and therefore has put himself up to be shot at when things aren't going well.

And of all the mistakes, the absurdity of not only the non backing of one of our most successful ever managers, but replacing him somebody who had "been on the radar" for a long time, but in fact had a far inferior record at the same level, stands out as something which was seemingly pre-planned no matter what, with a total disregard for the consequences.

 

Never underestimate the power MA has at Ashton Gate, with Lansdown as well. He was here before Cotterill left, make of that what you will.

[NickJ]

Just now, Robin1988 said:

Never underestimate the power MA has at Ashton Gate, with Lansdown as well. He was here before Cotterill left, make of that what you will.

Yes and you have alluded to his chequered past, which indeed is very chequered and in fact quite unimpressive for the role appointed to.

But why or how would he have power over Lansdown?

 

[Robin1988]

Just now, NickJ said:

Yes and you have alluded to his chequered past, which indeed is very chequered and in fact quite unimpressive for the role appointed to.

But why or how would he have power over Lansdown?

He's essentially running the club on a day-to-day basis, and is Lansdown's eyes and ears at AG. Given his persona is more suited to Lansdown than to your man on the street, and he's renowned for being pretty slimy, you can see how he's incredibly influential.

[BrizzleRed]

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think that you are being a trifle negative! We lost a good few games by very close 0ne goal margins and some of the performances were not too bad. As you say, things have improved a bit, and that must by credited to LJ as much as the return of TA after injury.  If he keeps us up this season, the project is still on track, albeit with maybe ten points less than would have been comfortable.  I think we can reasonably put this down to the inexperience of the coach and some member of the squad - both of which will be enhanced next season! Keep the faith COYR!

Ooh, please don't get me started with that Bristol Sport project bollux.

As for being a bit negative, no that's realism from a half century of experience of regular bouts of pain, false hope and disappointment which are the inevitable consequence of following this club!!!

[EstoniaTallinnRed]

2 hours ago, NickJ said:

The bolded bit is a fair analysis and I do have some sympathy for Steve.

But, Steve has taken certain decisions such as share ownership changes without any meaningful dialogue, and an attitude of "its my club", and therefore has put himself up to be shot at when things aren't going well.

And of all the mistakes, the absurdity of not only the non backing of one of our most successful ever managers, but replacing him somebody who had "been on the radar" for a long time, but in fact had a far inferior record at the same level, stands out as something which was seemingly pre-planned no matter what, with a total disregard for the consequences.

 

I said this last season on this forum about SC and SL,  I was told that I was lucky I was not being sued for libel.  my view was the same as yours regarding LJ's appointment.

[NickJ]

2 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

Add to that the money we got for Ayling, Agard and Williams. Plus the money we got in the summer from Boalsie/Albert. If we hadn't have sold Kodjia, I agree he would have been backed massively, but we sold him with days remaining without a replacement. So we can't judge him on how well we'd have done with both. But at that point in time, we were looking very good!

 

It's not rosy, it's simply stating a truth. He built a promotion winning squad there. I'm not giving him sole credit for their promotion but he deserves credit for it regardless. I also think he did a very good job at Oldham on a limited budget.

 

Potential? I don't know, it's difficult to define. I don't pretend that I think LJ will be a Premier League manager or *insert level of ability here* in the future. I feel he did a very good job between February and October here, as much as he struggled between November and February. I think his current ability is somewhere in between those two drastic points on the scale. He's a young coach still learning in his first full season at this level and boy, he will have learned a lot this season. I think when things were going well he showed good levels of tactical astuteness, enough for me to believe in him as a manager. We've competed even when on the horrendous run, often narrowly edged out of games. I won't defend that run, nor would the manager, but we've come through that now after confidence must have been rock bottom and look to have begun making progress again recently. Apart from those two games of course, where I began to think maybe the players had lost faith, but then they responded brilliantly on Saturday. Obviously confidence can still be fragile but 2 losses from 7 with some vital wins is cause for optimism. SL obviously shares similar sentiments and I really hope his gamble pays off. Like I said, for me, we need to focus on fighting to stay up, which we've been doing a good job of since March, and regroup in the summer.

Built a promotion winning squad at Barnsley?

He left them in 12th place on 39 points after 28 games.

Compared with Heckingbottam, who guided them to the play offs with nearly as many points (35) in just 18 games.

Doesn't that more like indicate Johnson was unable to get the best out of his players, a bit like here?

 

[...]

SLOW DOWN I CAN'T KEEP UP WITH THIS THREAD.

 

 

 

 

tfj

[Son of Fred]

4 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

Well you've taken the two losses out of the last 7 games where we've began making progress. Nobody defends the losing run, but we've made progress in recent weeks and there's certainly cause for hope. He built a promotion winning squad at Barnsley, a club that had been in decline for years before he went there, and had begun guiding them up the table before he came to us. He may have spent that money for us, but it's hardly a war chest when you consider we had a negative net spend. Goodness knows how you'd react if you were a Villa fan, I suppose you'd expect them to be 30 points clear at the top of the league.

 

LJ doesn't deserve praise for the season as a whole but I believe he's done a good job turning the tide in recent weeks when the club was at a very low point. A different predicament to get out of for any manager so him and the squad have shown great character recently, getting some big results. He deserves praise for his work from February to October and criticism for our form from October to February. But I look at the bigger picture and still see potential there, as does our owner clearly. We just need to focus on staying up in the meantime.

 

Obviously you're very negative about everything, that's your choice. The reasoning you gave in the post I quoted is still laughably silly though.

The potential with LJ that i see is one year from now being either mid-table league one,or bottem six(again)in the Championship.

Where in your minds eye do you see the 'potential' placing us a year hence??

Not sure that makes me negative or a flea bitten realist??

[The Coach]

How I see it going with a few points

If we do end up getting relegated:

• Johnson will be sacked

If we do survive this season, Johnson will be given more money to spend this summer to "rebuild" his mess from this current season.

If within the first 10 games we find ourselves in a similar position to now:

• Johnson will be sacked

 

I haven't seen anything in Johnson that tells me he has this so called "potential". Personally, I think the line is already in the sand for the man. I cannot see him being at Bristol City FC this time next year, and I do believe Lansdown is prolonging the inevitable outcome while trying to chuck every excuse going to every journalist, and supporter.

At the moment, this club feels like King Midas. The problem being rather than bringing in players and turning them into gold, we turn them into ash. The only real player that has impressed me this season is Abraham (under him I may exempt Magnusson and Djuric). I honestly have no trust in the club at the moment to bring in the required calibre of player that is neccessary to become a recognised force within this league. On top of that, I have seen no evidence in the ability of our coaching staff to improve new signings, or to further improve our current young crop of players. Furthermore, I see no one from the Academy who contains the potential to become a "solid Championship player" let alone a top top talent. 

If this club is ever serious about reaching the Premier League, then Lansdown needs a new Business Strategy, with men/woman with more knowledge/experience on how to successfully run a Football Club. Thus, an entire new structure is not only required within the First Teams Coaching Staff, our Youth Academy (in which we apparently let go one of the top scouts in Britain), but an entire new structure is required within the Boardroom. Allowing members of the board to have their own voice, and can run Bristol City FC without Lansdown 'butting in'. Meaning for Lansdown to sit back and reap the rewards as the current structure under Lansdown hasn't work since day one, and it will continue down this path until the club takes a new direction.

 

[ScottishRed]

4 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

Add to that the money we got for Ayling, Agard and Williams. Plus the money we got in the summer from Boalsie/Albert. If we hadn't have sold Kodjia, I agree he would have been backed massively, but we sold him with days remaining without a replacement. So we can't judge him on how well we'd have done with both. But at that point in time, we were looking very good!

 

It's not rosy, it's simply stating a truth. He built a promotion winning squad there. I'm not giving him sole credit for their promotion but he deserves credit for it regardless. I also think he did a very good job at Oldham on a limited budget.

 

Potential? I don't know, it's difficult to define. I don't pretend that I think LJ will be a Premier League manager or *insert level of ability here* in the future. I feel he did a very good job between February and October here, as much as he struggled between November and February. I think his current ability is somewhere in between those two drastic points on the scale. He's a young coach still learning in his first full season at this level and boy, he will have learned a lot this season. I think when things were going well he showed good levels of tactical astuteness, enough for me to believe in him as a manager. We've competed even when on the horrendous run, often narrowly edged out of games. I won't defend that run, nor would the manager, but we've come through that now after confidence must have been rock bottom and look to have begun making progress again recently. Apart from those two games of course, where I began to think maybe the players had lost faith, but then they responded brilliantly on Saturday. Obviously confidence can still be fragile but 2 losses from 7 with some vital wins is cause for optimism. SL obviously shares similar sentiments and I really hope his gamble pays off. Like I said, for me, we need to focus on fighting to stay up, which we've been doing a good job of since March, and regroup in the summer.

I am curious, why do think next season will be any different if we stay up?

I don't believe that we have" come through that now" in any way, we are just as likely to lose by 5 on Friday as win it.

We were fortunate on Saturday, another goal after they got their first and we could have lost the game, at no point were we in charge of that game - neither were they,but with the money spent we should be nowhere near the situation we are in.

If the owner is serious about the Premier League the "gamble" should never have been taken.

 

[Bat Fastard]

2 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Ooh, please don't get me started with that Bristol Sport project bollux.

As for being a bit negative, no that's realism from a half century of experience of regular bouts of pain, false hope and disappointment which are the inevitable consequence of following this club!!!

I have also had 50 years as a supporter and feel more optimistic right now than for many years past - we will have to differ on this.  I will continue being an enthusiastic supporter until I cannot physically get to games - then I will listen or watch on TV and after that I will have croaked CTID COYR!

[JHAGa]

3 hours ago, NickJ said:

Built a promotion winning squad at Barnsley?

He left them in 12th place on 39 points after 28 games.

Compared with Heckingbottam, who guided them to the play offs with nearly as many points (35) in just 18 games.

Doesn't that more like indicate Johnson was unable to get the best out of his players, a bit like here?

 

 

Did Barnsley get promoted with the squad LJ built? Yes.

 

I didn't say he was solely to credit with that promotion, Heckingbottom did a brilliant job continuing the form LJ left them in. That points total was hampered by the losing run he went on there which is well documented, but I'm sure you're more than aware that LJ came through it, which kick-started Barnsley's surge to promotion and the JPT final. When LJ left they had won 8 of their last 9 games. Not a bad position for a caretaker manager to be taking over from. And again, credit to Heckingbottom for continuing to do so. I don't think it's a coincidence both Barnsley and SL stuck by LJ when things were tough. Hopefully he can turn things around here as he did with them. We've been starting to do so in the last 7 games.

[BrizzleRed]

1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

I have also had 50 years as a supporter and feel more optimistic right now than for many years past - we will have to differ on this.  I will continue being an enthusiastic supporter until I cannot physically get to games - then I will listen or watch on TV and after that I will have croaked CTID COYR!

In that case I'll happily say good on you, as with that optimism, you'll be getting far more pleasure from following City than I currently am.  I just hope your optimism is justified, but sadly I just can't see it myself.

[BCFC Rich]

7 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

@Olé produced a table of expenditure in the Championship this season and rest assured, we are near the top. 

 

 

We have spent a lot this season but also raised a lot. Some quick research shows that we made a profit of 1.62million this season, if you add up the total cost of all players we have the 15th most expensive in the league. If you look at our transfer expenditure vs income over the last 5 seasons we have spent a grand total of just 1.5 million. In a table that shows how much championships clubs have spent per point this season we are 10th. 

We spent a lot this year compared to the past and some people expect that to reap results but the truth we have underinvested for too long and really compared to the rest of the league we haven't even spent that much. 

[GoodridgeandGoater]

The comment on his money vs fans was clumsy for sure. But I guess he's also trying to say he's also a fan who puts his money in. Of which he happens to have a lot. 

What I found most worrying was the Des Taylor remark that he didn't really 'fit'. If Taylor came with a reputation as one of the country's top scouts isn't a bit worrying that if he wanted to do things his way and it went against what Lansdown wanted, he ended up leaving? Perhaps it was personal and of course we don't really know what went on but seems to enforce sense of SL as having too much control over the football operation. 

[Guest]

On 08/04/2017 at 21:30, Ivorguy said:

I am totally gobsmacked that some people here think that interview was ok. 

SL showed himself in his true colours. Totally disrespectful of fans and a complete egotist.  I want him out of City NOW.

only just got home will post again later with detailed critique of Twentyman's excellent interview. SL not only was inconsistent re past interviews but actually inconsistent in this one interview.  Added to all his other failings is a complete lack of media no how. 

Truly truly dreadful.  

Did you do the detailed critique or did you find that a detailed critique would reveal some discrepancies with what you heard and what was actually said?

[NickJ]

6 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

Did Barnsley get promoted with the squad LJ built? Yes.

 

I didn't say he was solely to credit with that promotion, Heckingbottom did a brilliant job continuing the form LJ left them in. That points total was hampered by the losing run he went on there which is well documented, but I'm sure you're more than aware that LJ came through it, which kick-started Barnsley's surge to promotion and the JPT final. When LJ left they had won 8 of their last 9 games. Not a bad position for a caretaker manager to be taking over from. And again, credit to Heckingbottom for continuing to do so. I don't think it's a coincidence both Barnsley and SL stuck by LJ when things were tough. Hopefully he can turn things around here as he did with them. We've been starting to do so in the last 7 games.

The nice thing about Google is that facts are easily and swiftly verified.

Johnson's final game for Barnsley included just 2 of the 12 permanent signings which Johnson had made since becoming manager a year earlier.

Hardly "building a winning squad" is it?"

[exAtyeoMax]

7 hours ago, GoodridgeandGoater said:

The comment on his money vs fans was clumsy for sure. But I guess he's also trying to say he's also a fan who puts his money in. Of which he happens to have a lot. 

What I found most worrying was the Des Taylor remark that he didn't really 'fit'. If Taylor came with a reputation as one of the country's top scouts isn't a bit worrying that if he wanted to do things his way and it went against what Lansdown wanted, he ended up leaving? Perhaps it was personal and of course we don't really know what went on but seems to enforce sense of SL as having too much control over the football operation. 

it makes you wonder just what our aspirations are! I found that comment really telling and concerning.

[Hello]

11 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

I am curious, why do think next season will be any different if we stay up?

I don't believe that we have" come through that now" in any way, we are just as likely to lose by 5 on Friday as win it.

We were fortunate on Saturday, another goal after they got their first and we could have lost the game, at no point were we in charge of that game - neither were they,but with the money spent we should be nowhere near the situation we are in.

If the owner is serious about the Premier League the "gamble" should never have been taken.

 

it will be different because the deckchairs have been rearranged with Pemberton and the 'shit' scout being removed

[Kid in the Riot]

8 hours ago, RichardEdd said:

We have spent a lot this season but also raised a lot. Some quick research shows that we made a profit of 1.62million this season, if you add up the total cost of all players we have the 15th most expensive in the league. If you look at our transfer expenditure vs income over the last 5 seasons we have spent a grand total of just 1.5 million. In a table that shows how much championships clubs have spent per point this season we are 10th. 

We spent a lot this year compared to the past and some people expect that to reap results but the truth we have underinvested for too long and really compared to the rest of the league we haven't even spent that much. 

That sounds like it would've required a bit more than "some quick research". Do you have a link to prove these stats as they don't sound right at all?

[Ivorguy]

8 hours ago, bcfcfinker said:

Did you do the detailed critique or did you find that a detailed critique would reveal some discrepancies with what you heard and what was actually said?

Sorry been trying to buy a flat in a different part of the country

When I came to write something, the arguments had been made by others, i.e. The internal inconsistencies of his answers, the inconsistencies between his answers now and in the past, the utter powerlessness of The Board to act as even a safeguard for BCFC Ltd, the blatant nepotism within the club, the lack of respect to highly regarded servants of the club (Pemberton, Taylor),  the  total disrespect of the fans and history of City, and a very petulant aggressive egotistical attitude overall.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Sorry been trying to buy a flat in a different part of the country

When I came to write something, the arguments had been made by others, i.e. The internal inconsistencies of his answers, the inconsistencies between his answers now and in the past, the utter powerlessness of The Board to act as even a safeguard for BCFC Ltd, the blatant nepotism within the club, the lack of respect to highly regarded servants of the club (Pemberton, Taylor),  the  total disrespect of the fans and history of City, and a very petulant aggressive egotistical attitude overall.

So that's a no then.

[Ivorguy]

26 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

So that's a no then.

What a very odd reply

Don't follow your logic at all, old chap

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ivorguy said:

What a very odd reply

Don't follow your logic at all, old chap

Logic and OTIB... I thought that would be a mutually exclusive event young man.

[BCFChayden]

On 08/04/2017 at 19:12, Citychuds said:

I'd suggest people listen to the radio interview before making their mind up! I was really annoyed having read all the snippets on this forum then I listened to interview! Arrogance? Where? 

The man has openly said yes we have considered Lee's position. He didn't at all back him unconditionally, he just said they have thought about it on a game by game basis and he continues to believe that what's going on behind the scenes justify him being head coach. 

The comment about him putting more money into the club was meant in a 'yes I put a lot of money into the club too so I understand why the fans are annoyed'. At various times he said he understood the fans annoyance.

He even talked about his plans being for the best interests of the football club, at no point did he even sound like he was saying it's my club I will do what I like.

And before I get a load of abuse about being a Johnson lover / lansdown lover / gas head etc I don't believe LJ is the right man from the performances on the pitch, I do believe Lansdown will be proved wrong in his decision to keep him, and I've supported this club for as long as a lot of you.

sounds to me like some fans listened to that interview to find an issue with SL rather than take everything he said in the true context.

Deluded he might be, time will tell, but arrogance? Not in my view

As much as he has annoyed me this season. He has showed the club;

he has balls.

he believes we're on the up as a football club. That's everything apart from the first team.

hes sticking to his decision because he believes swapping and changing the club every year doesn't bring any stability to the club either. The last 6 years proved that.

 

 

[Port Said Red]

11 minutes ago, BCFChayden said:

As much as he has annoyed me this season. He has showed the club;

he has balls.

he believes we're on the up as a football club. That's everything apart from the first team.

hes sticking to his decision because he believes swapping and changing the club every year doesn't bring any stability to the club either. The last 6 years proved that.

 

 

I often wonder if at most clubs if the players don't like a Manager they sit and wait it out until he gets sacked and hope they get on the good side of the new guy. If the Manager looks like he will be hanging around for a while, their options are to buckle down and try and work with the Manager or bugger off. 

[exAtyeoMax]

The other interesting bit of the interview was SL stating that he had the idea for the project when we were relegated. I guess by 'project' he means employing LJ as manager. This would mean that Cotts was always seen as a short term option, which could account for the shenanigans last season. 

[Jack Dawe]

21 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

Add to that the money we got for Ayling, Agard and Williams. Plus the money we got in the summer from Boalsie/Albert. If we hadn't have sold Kodjia, I agree he would have been backed massively, but we sold him with days remaining without a replacement. So we can't judge him on how well we'd have done with both. But at that point in time, we were looking very good!

 

 

It was LJ and MA's choice to sell Kodjia to Villa, according to SL in a club interview he did with Adam Baker in early September. Their "recommendation" to SL, he said, and he "went along with it." 

LJ himself said last August: "We are always prepared for anything. If you are not, then you are not doing your job properly. There always has to be a recruitment strategy in place."

LJ's judgement was, presumably, that we could sell Kodjia late in August and either that we would be ok with what we had, or that they had an adequate replacement ready to go, and time to do the deal. Because he was prepared for any eventuality. Either that, or he did not do his job properly.