Management team: just sit back and ponder this

[NickJ]

^{What other Championship club with Premiership ambition would have a management team with the playing and managerial experience of:}

Johnson - played for whatever team his dad happened to be manager of and Kilmarnock; 36% managerial win rate in 3rd division

^{McAllister - I like "Macca", a lot, but us, Yeovil and Exeter; only recently got his coaching badges I believe, but he is mates with Johnson}

^{Holden -  played for most of the northern 3rd and 4th division teams; 20% managerial win rate at Oldham, but he is mates with Johnson}

In all seriousness, just what other club would entertain this farce?

[Leveller]

Have you considered Fat Sam's playing career?

[Fordy62]

13 minutes ago, NickJ said:

^{What other Championship club with Premiership ambition would have a management team with the playing and managerial experience of:}

Johnson - played for whatever team his dad happened to be manager of and Kilmarnock; 36% managerial win rate in 3rd division

^{McAllister - I like "Macca", a lot, but us, Yeovil and Exeter; only recently got his coaching badges I believe, but he is mates with Johnson}

^{Holden -  played for most of the northern 3rd and 4th division teams; 20% managerial win rate at Oldham, but he is mates with Johnson}

In all seriousness, just what other club would entertain this farce?

I'm tired Nick. Really tired. At least the players like Holden. Allegedly. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

9 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Have you considered Fat Sam's playing career?

What the same Sam Allardyce who has a distinctly more successful playing career than our triplets put together , got promoted to and played in old 1st division 

Also had three managerial jobs before Bolton , all positive including winning League of Ireland with Limerick , taking Blackpool close and winning the Div 3 title with Notts County ,and has a track record as a manager that I'll safely predict none of the three will ever come close to

Excellent comparison that -  Allardyce to our triplets !!!

 

[chinapig]

41 minutes ago, NickJ said:

^{What other Championship club with Premiership ambition would have a management team with the playing and managerial experience of:}

Johnson - played for whatever team his dad happened to be manager of and Kilmarnock; 36% managerial win rate in 3rd division

^{McAllister - I like "Macca", a lot, but us, Yeovil and Exeter; only recently got his coaching badges I believe, but he is mates with Johnson}

^{Holden -  played for most of the northern 3rd and 4th division teams; 20% managerial win rate at Oldham, but he is mates with Johnson}

In all seriousness, just what other club would entertain this farce?

I can't help but think you undermine your case by implying there is a correlation between playing career and management. 

[The Fat Controller]

Just now, chinapig said:

I can't help but think you undermine your case by implying there is a correlation between playing career and management. 

Quite. Some top players have been dogshit at management. 

Also, (the classic example) Arsene Wenger had a piss poor playing career. 

Mourinho had a poor playing career and Villas-Boas I understand had no professional playing career whatsoever. 

All three have done alright for themselves.

Doesn't mean our three are any good but for me chinapigs point above stands.

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I can't help but think you undermine your case by implying there is a correlation between playing career and management. 

Current case in point; Gianfranco Zola. One of the greatest players ever but couldn`t manage a whelk stall.

[NickJ]

3 minutes ago, chinapig said:

I can't help but think you undermine your case by implying there is a correlation between playing career and management. 

I knew this point would be made.

We all know that being a great player does not equate to a good manager.

But it is the case that in general, decent managers at any club have previously had a good track record, usually at a level above that at which they currently manage, as a player or manager or both.

Look at the current Championship mangers. Most if not all have a better playing or managerial pedigree.

[SimonL]

Coaching badges don't give the real life man management skills that you so obviously  need to keep things fresh and together in a big group of players all with different egos. 

[NickJ]

3 minutes ago, Chris_Brown said:

Quite. Some top players have been dogshit at management. 

Also, (the classic example) Arsene Wenger had a piss poor playing career. 

Mourinho had a poor playing career and Villas-Boas I understand had no professional playing career whatsoever. 

All three have done alright for themselves.

Doesn't mean our three are any good but for me chinapigs point above stands.

See my response to chinapig.

Wenger won the league as manager at Monaco and in Japan before Arsenal. He had a long road to becoming a manager.

Mourinho similarly proved himself as a successful coach at lower levels, working his way up.

Our team do not have these credentials.

 

@Leveller has mentioned Allardyce but in fact he played in the old first division for Bolton for many years and proved himself as a manager at a lower level before joining Bolton as a manager.

Our team have not been successful as managers and achieved relatively little as players.

 

I am failing to see what SL is hanging his hat on, other than LJ is young and asks lots of questions, and the three of them are good mates.

 

[robin_unreliant]

Is that about giving them credibility with the players rather than ability?

I see little relevance in your playing ability when it comes to management. You need to be a leader and a good man manager imho. If you have a good playing career that helps when it comes to the players respecting you as a leader. I do feel Johnson must be fighting an uphill battle as he was a bang average player. I also have no recollection of him displaying any leadership qualities in his playing days.

On the man management front the tombola and constant reference to not trusting players just leaves me speechless. In that respect, although I would need to be a player to really know, the evidence seems pretty damning to me.

[The Fat Controller]

Just now, NickJ said:

See my response to chinapig.

Wenger won the league as manager at Monaco and in Japan before Arsenal. He had a long road to becoming a manager.

Mourinho similarly proved himself as a successful coach at lower levels, working his way up.

Our team do not have these credentials.

 

@Leveller has mentioned Allardyce but in fact he played in the old first division for Bolton for many years and proved himself as a manager at a lower level before joining Bolton as a manager.

Our team have not been successful as managers and achieved relatively little as players.

 

I am failing to see what SL is hanging his hat on, other than LJ is young and asks lots of questions, and the three of them are good mates.

 

Sure. I understand the lack of managerial experience of the three amigos and I agree with your point there, it was the reference specifically to playing. Don't really think the level they have played at has much at all to do with it.

One of the worst things about the appointment of Tinnion was that he wasn't told to choose an Assistant with experience. He should never have been allowed to have the inexperienced Millen as an assistant. History has repeated itself and Johnson finds himself allowed to have two inexperienced assistants. Lessons have not been learned.

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, SimonL said:

Coaching badges don't give the real life man management skills that you so obviously  need to keep things fresh and together in a big group of players all with different egos. 

The same in all walks of life. You can have all the bits of paper you want but that doesn`t mean anything if you can`t manage a group of people and get them to pull together. I suspect we`ve all seen and worked under enough crap bosses over the years to know that`s true.

[Natchfever]

45 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

What the same Sam Allardyce who has a distinctly more successful playing career than our triplets put together , got promoted to and played in old 1st division 

Also had three managerial jobs before Bolton , all positive including winning Div 3 title with Notts County and has a track record as a manager that I'll safely predict none of the three will ever come close to

Excellent comparison Allardyce to our triplets 

 

Perhaps Sam is the name of the fat man who haunts the forum .

A lack of a distinguished career means little for a head coach, but when the entire management team is so inexperienced it must make us weaker.

[Luxo Jr.]

54 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

What the same Sam Allardyce who has a distinctly more successful playing career than our triplets put together , got promoted to and played in old 1st division 

Also had three managerial jobs before Bolton , all positive including winning League of Ireland with Limerick , taking Blackpool close and winning the Div 3 title with Notts County ,and has a track record as a manager that I'll safely predict none of the three will ever come close to

Excellent comparison that -  Allardyce to our triplets !!!

 

The point is that a playing career is largely irrelevant. Many of the best managers in the Premier League had distinctly average playing careers - Mourinho, Wenger and Klopp to name a few. 

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, NickJ said:

^{What other Championship club with Premiership ambition would have a management team with the playing and managerial experience of:}

Johnson - played for whatever team his dad happened to be manager of and Kilmarnock; 36% managerial win rate in 3rd division

^{McAllister - I like "Macca", a lot, but us, Yeovil and Exeter; only recently got his coaching badges I believe, but he is mates with Johnson}

^{Holden -  played for most of the northern 3rd and 4th division teams; 20% managerial win rate at Oldham, but he is mates with Johnson}

In all seriousness, just what other club would entertain this farce?

There has been some brilliant managers who didn't have distinguished playing careers - look what Graham Taylor did as a  club manager, fantastic record - but didn't he only play for Lincoln City?

Dave Bassett? Look what he did for Wimbledon.....top playing career? Nah....

Lawrie McMenemy won the FA Cup as a manager when it was a proper competition - who did he play for?

And as others have mentioned, Mourinho and Wenger hardly set the world alight as players. It's not a relevant argument...

[BobBobSuperBob]

10 minutes ago, Luxo Jr. said:

The point is that a playing career is largely irrelevant. Many of the best managers in the Premier League had distinctly average playing careers - Mourinho, Wenger and Klopp to name a few. 

 

Not what I was claiming - it was in response to a post suggesting Allardyce's playing career was crap

 

[JHAGa]

Wouldn't take Rodgers, Benitez, Mourinho or Wenger? Hoffenheim's 29 year old manager is doing an amazing job this season, never made a first team appearance. No relevance whatsoever.

 

But I suppose you've spent ages formulating your negative, anti-Johnson post for the day.

[Bat Fastard]

28 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Perhaps Sam is the name of the fat man who haunts the forum .

A lack of a distinguished career means little for a head coach, but when the entire management team is so inexperienced it must make us weaker.

I've got my eye in you Loon plage!

[reddoh]

8 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I've got my eye in you Loon plage!

Just for clarity in or on (one put hideous visions in my mind)

[Lanterne Rouge]

28 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

There has been some brilliant managers who didn't have distinguished playing careers - look what Graham Taylor did as a  club manager, fantastic record - but didn't he only play for Lincoln City?

Dave Bassett? Look what he did for Wimbledon.....top playing career? Nah....

Lawrie McMenemy won the FA Cup as a manager when it was a proper competition - who did he play for?

And as others have mentioned, Mourinho and Wenger hardly set the world alight as players. It's not a relevant argument...

Warnock? Did **** all as a player, albeit had a bad injury when still relatively young, but hasn`t done too badly out of the old management game. Don`t want him here mind!

[BS4 on Tour...]

25 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Warnock? Did **** all as a player, albeit had a bad injury when still relatively young, but hasn`t done too badly out of the old management game. Don`t want him here mind!

It's well documented on here that I'd love Warnock as our manager...! Oh to think where we'd be now....4th I reckon with his know-how and a multi-million pound transfer budget....

[Bat Fastard]

45 minutes ago, reddoh said:

Just for clarity in or on (one put hideous visions in my mind)

The former!

[reddoh]

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

The former!

oh buggger

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, Red Right Hand said:

Current case in point; Gianfranco Zola. One of the greatest players ever but couldn`t manage a whelk stall.

He could if he had three transfer windows .

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Chris_Brown said:

Quite. Some top players have been dogshit at management. 

Also, (the classic example) Arsene Wenger had a piss poor playing career. 

Mourinho had a poor playing career and Villas-Boas I understand had no professional playing career whatsoever. 

All three have done alright for themselves.

Doesn't mean our three are any good but for me chinapigs point above stands.

You could add several more to those mentioned.

Lawrie McMenemy had little experience as a player, having retired early because of injury. He was in the Coldstream Guards before his football career/ Early management brought three trophies at different clubs before he went to Southampton and the rest is well known.

Nearer home, Alan Dicks never dug up trees as a player and became our manager at the tender age of 33 with nil experience of management except as a coach at Coventry under Jimmy Hill.

PS. I didn't read all the posts until after I'd written this.  

[ColeCiderRed]

2 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

What the same Sam Allardyce who has a distinctly more successful playing career than our triplets put together , got promoted to and played in old 1st division 

Also had three managerial jobs before Bolton , all positive including winning League of Ireland with Limerick , taking Blackpool close and winning the Div 3 title with Notts County ,and has a track record as a manager that I'll safely predict none of the three will ever come close to

Excellent comparison that -  Allardyce to our triplets !!!

 

Not to forget his 100% win to game(s) ratio as England manager! 

[Big C]

I would say that Eddie Howe, Sean Dyce and Nigel Adkins have all got teams into the Premiership and had similar profiles

[allyolly]

5 hours ago, NickJ said:

^{What other Championship club with Premiership ambition would have a management team with the playing and managerial experience of:}

Johnson - played for whatever team his dad happened to be manager of and Kilmarnock; 36% managerial win rate in 3rd division

^{McAllister - I like "Macca", a lot, but us, Yeovil and Exeter; only recently got his coaching badges I believe, but he is mates with Johnson}

^{Holden -  played for most of the northern 3rd and 4th division teams; 20% managerial win rate at Oldham, but he is mates with Johnson}

In all seriousness, just what other club would entertain this farce?

If the management set up troubles you this much then maybe find something else to do with your time?

Lansdown has been very clear that there will be no change of management this season, statistically we are doing better in the last couple of months than since September and currently our destiny is completely in our own hands. Compared to earlier in the year I'm prepared to go with this.

Under achieving this season? Definitely but I'm sick of the boom and bust mentality of the managerial merry go round and would like to see what a bit of stability will bring. 

 

[robin_unreliant]

I suspect form has picked up recently because the players have realised that they need to avoid relegation. Part of the reason for the horrendous run, if rumours are believed, is that they want LJ gone. There has been discord and a resulting downing of tools. They can only take this so far and don't want to cost themselves money by being relegated. If Johnson remains in post and we stay up I fully expect the horrendous form to return at the start of next season. It feels like the Ranieri scenario to me.