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On 14/04/2017 at 17:45, JHAGa said:

 

Only his second season in the football league, remember. I imagine it's a big step up for him but I feel he's settled really well, works hard and has played a key role when featured. Coming into a struggling side with a bit of pressure following the inter-city move. I feel like his sheer presence and movement helps us out an abundance, especially giving Tammy more space. I think he will only improve and for the fee we paid, will always be great value! Rovers have certainly missed his goals.

For the fee we paid maybe, what about his wages?

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9 hours ago, MarcusX said:

For the fee we paid maybe, what about his wages?

 

I don't see your point? Every players gets a wage, hardly groundbreaking. The transfer fee is still relevant and was still low for a player of his calibre (proven L1 goalscorer) and so there aren't really any obvious negatives. Taylor was a small fee and has already proven himself to be a useful addition. Add to that, it's derailed Rovers' chance of the play-offs, it's great value and incredibly low risk.

 

Anyway, back on topic. Paterson seemed to have another positive performance today. Good to hear.

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Have seen nothing from Taylor so far to suggest he can be a prolific scorer at this level. Seems to miss most of his chances and can't see how, spending basically the same fee we got for Freeman, he has improved the squad. If you asked me if a swap of Freeman for Taylor looks like good business I would give a resounding No.

Hope next season he can prove me wrong but he will have to improve one hell of a lot on current form imo.

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Just now, robin_unreliant said:

Have seen nothing from Taylor so far to suggest he can be a prolific scorer at this level. Seems to miss most of his chances and can't see how, spending basically the same fee we got for Freeman, he has improved the squad. If you asked me if a swap of Freeman for Taylor looks like good business I would give a resounding No.

Hope next season he can prove me wrong but he will have to improve one hell of a lot on current form imo.

 

I think we far more benefit from having Taylor in the squad than Freeman. We already had midfielders better than Freeman but didn't have enough depth up front. Taylor has helped Tammy and Paterson a lot too.

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5 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Have seen nothing from Taylor so far to suggest he can be a prolific scorer at this level. Seems to miss most of his chances and can't see how, spending basically the same fee we got for Freeman, he has improved the squad. If you asked me if a swap of Freeman for Taylor looks like good business I would give a resounding No.

Hope next season he can prove me wrong but he will have to improve one hell of a lot on current form imo.

Sure Taylor already has more goals and assists than Freeman in the championship?

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48 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

I don't see your point? Every players gets a wage, hardly groundbreaking. The transfer fee is still relevant and was still low for a player of his calibre (proven L1 goalscorer) and so there aren't really any obvious negatives. Taylor was a small fee and has already proven himself to be a useful addition. Add to that, it's derailed Rovers' chance of the play-offs, it's great value and incredibly low risk.

 

Anyway, back on topic. Paterson seemed to have another positive performance today. Good to hear.

I think giving an unproven striker at this level 5x his previous wage a bit of a gamble IMO. Just because we can afford it doesn't mean we should, necessarily.

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12 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

I think we far more benefit from having Taylor in the squad than Freeman. We already had midfielders better than Freeman but didn't have enough depth up front. Taylor has helped Tammy and Paterson a lot too.

Yes you may be right about us needing a striker more than another midfielder. I guess what I'm thinking is that in terms of quality; ability or just class, LF is significantly better than MT. I accept that the end product hadn't been there for a while with LF but believe a lot of that was Johnson's fault. Played him out of position and peed him right off I suspect.

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7 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I think giving an unproven striker at this level 5x his previous wage a bit of a gamble IMO. Just because we can afford it doesn't mean we should, necessarily.

Given that he has been a good addition to date and the fact that it's hurt Rovers, doesn't the gamble look to have paid off? Maybe if the fee was over £1M, I'd agree with your concerns but the fee is so insignificant and he has helped us since joining. I genuinely don't see a negative.

3 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Yes you may be right about us needing a striker more than another midfielder. I guess what I'm thinking is that in terms of quality; ability or just class, LF is in a different class to MT. I accept that the end product hadn't been there for a while with LF but believe a lot of that was Johnson's fault. Played him out of position and peed him right off I suspect.

 

Give me end product over looking flashy with a few stepovers any day. I don't dislike Freeman, he's probably good enough for this level, but he was too frustrating and was given ample opportunity. Was exactly the same at this level under SC too, and that was in CAM. In fact, LJ got more out of him at Championship level than SC.

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4 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

I think we far more benefit from having Taylor in the squad than Freeman. We already had midfielders better than Freeman but didn't have enough depth up front. Taylor has helped Tammy and Paterson a lot too.

Have to agree that, whilst it's less than others, Taylor adds more to our team play than Freeman. Could any of us see Freeman playing the pass to Paterson v QPR the other day? Freeman would have stopped, gone back, stepped over and returned it to a full-back. Freeman's best was in L1, surely everyone can agree to that? That's his level. The Championship has moved on, standards are higher, possibly even than when we came up 23 months ago. Freeman hasn't got better since then, but the overall standard of Champ play has.

As for Taylor, whilst I stand by what I think of his control, I'd say he adds more to team-work than I give him credit for. It's tricky not to be harsh on him, though: he's a striker, paid to score goals - which he did by the bucketload (admittedly in divs below) - and hasn't for us, not yet, and I don't really see it happening. Of course that can change, but as we saw today and last Friday, we need to finish chances in order to put teams to bed. Otherwise we're just gonna be in this position again in 12 months. We've had 20 goal strikers for these 2 years in this div, and we might have to have the same again next year to stay up. Personally I don't see Taylor doing that, but maybe if he contributes to a partner doing so..... All we need, in that case, is the Recruitment Team to have another top notch striker lined up. We've had 2 in 2 years. Going on our historical record of these things, chances are we might not be so lucky for 2017/18.

I get the argument that not all/both strikers have to score 20 (or even one of them - Burton top scorer, Irvine 10...QPR Sylla 10...Cardiff Zohore 11...Forest Assombalonga 10 etc) but it helps to have 15+. I'd be genuinely worried if Taylor was the one we were leaning on, come Sep 1st, to score our goals next season. Happy to be proved wrong, no matter where he's been signed from, mind.

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I seem to remember our Play Off season under GJ didn't involve a high scoring striker. We were a solid team that could defend and shared goals around. I would rather get in a top coach who can organise us along those lines than rely on finding another Tammy or Kodjia. Sadly Mr Lansdown doesn't seem likely to grant that wish.

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Just now, EnclosureSurge said:

Have to agree that, whilst it's less than others, Taylor adds more to our team play than Freeman. Could any of us see Freeman playing the pass to Paterson v QPR the other day? Freeman would have stopped, gone back, stepped over and returned it to a full-back. Freeman's best was in L1, surely everyone can agree to that? That's his level. The Championship has moved on, standards are higher, possibly even than when we came up 23 months ago. Freeman hasn't got better since then, but the overall standard of Champ play has.

As for Taylor, whilst I stand by what I think of his control, I'd say he adds more to team-work than I give him credit for. It's tricky not to be harsh on him, though: he's a striker, paid to score goals - which he did by the bucketload (admittedly in divs below) - and hasn't for us, not yet, and I don't really see it happening. Of course that can change, but as we saw today and last Friday, we need to finish chances in order to put teams to bed. Otherwise we're just gonna be in this position again in 12 months. We've had 20 goal strikers for these 2 years in this div, and we might have to have the same again next year to stay up. Personally I don't see Taylor doing that, but maybe if he contributes to a partner doing so..... All we need, in that case, is the Recruitment Team to have another top notch striker lined up. We've had 2 in 2 years. Going on our historical record of these things, chances are we might not be so lucky for 2017/18.

I get the argument that not all/both strikers have to score 20 (or even one of them - Burton top scorer, Irvine 10...QPR Sylla 10...Cardiff Zohore 11...Forest Assombalonga 10 etc) but it helps to have 15+. I'd be genuinely worried if Taylor was the one we were leaning on, come Sep 1st, to score our goals next season. Happy to be proved wrong, no matter where he's been signed from, mind.

 

I don't think he's an elite Championship striker, just that he's shown more than enough to justify the £300k fee and has definitely helped us since coming. As I posted earlier in the thread, it's only his second season in the Football League so it will be a big step up, Championship level, but I feel he's done really well so far, particularly his work off the ball and helping the likes of Abraham/Paterson in freeing us space. I believe he was the sort of player we needed at that time and who we acquired for a very good fee, with the added bonus of damaging Rovers. I think he can only improve too. He's missed a few good chances but I get the impression he's a confidence player. The good thing is he hasn't allowed those missed chances to affect him, hasn't lost his head and made wrong choices, in fact he's done the opposite in getting important assists for us.

 

I just looked it up, he's started 6 games since joining (3-3 vs Derby, 0-2 Fulham, 1-0 vs Wigan, 3-1 vs Wolves, 2-1 vs QPR and today). Of course he's not solely responsible for those results but I don't think it's a coincidence either.

 

I don't think Taylor will be our main striker next season, we will need to replace Tammy/Kodjia's position in the squad. But I think Taylor will prove a useful addition and even if, worse case scenario, things don't work out, it's so low risk that I don't see any negatives in the move.

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11 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I think giving an unproven striker at this level 5x his previous wage a bit of a gamble IMO. Just because we can afford it doesn't mean we should, necessarily.

It does seem odd why we bought him. Had we been so burned by foreign signings by then? (Engvall, Magnusson dropped - or about to be - and Hegeler looked like he was spurned almost as soon as he walked in the door, even though I think he's probably the best midfielder we have). Maybe not. Were there other UK strikers we could buy? Surely, but not at that price with that amount of goals to his name. But, if you look at the signing from a certain angle, it does seem odd.

I think Gallagher from Blackburn would be a decent signing should they go down. 12 in about 30 games. Strong and mobile. Big man/little man. Perhaps I'm just thinking of another Big man/little man partnership involving someone with the name Taylor. Probably. And this, from me, someone who spent almost the entire 90 mins v QPR yelling at Hollowhead that he was stuck in the 80s with his tactics of kick it to the Big Bloke (M Smith). Yes, I even did it after he was subbed and they were playing neater football to little players.

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3 minutes ago, EnclosureSurge said:

It does seem odd why we bought him. Had we been so burned by foreign signings by then? (Engvall, Magnusson dropped - or about to be - and Hegeler looked like he was spurned almost as soon as he walked in the door, even though I think he's probably the best midfielder we have). Maybe not. Were there other UK strikers we could buy? Surely, but not at that price with that amount of goals to his name. But, if you look at the signing from a certain angle, it does seem odd.

I think Gallagher from Blackburn would be a decent signing should they go down. 12 in about 30 games. Strong and mobile. Big man/little man. Perhaps I'm just thinking of another Big man/little man partnership involving someone with the name Taylor. Probably. And this, from me, someone who spent almost the entire 90 mins v QPR yelling at Hollowhead that he was stuck in the 80s with his tactics of kick it to the Big Bloke (M Smith). Yes, I even did it after he was subbed and they were playing neater football to little players.

Gallagher would be a great shout but I think he`s still a Saints player so whether they would loan him to us who knows?

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On Fri Apr 14 2017 at 19:45, RedM said:

I think Taylor has been very mature in his attitude, he must be desperate to score himself yet showed he was unselfish many times today. He's not the finished article and different from what I thought we were getting having listened to Gashead mates. He makes space for the team and we look better and more creative for it. Taylor & Duric next season I guess. 

Got to get a quality striker like Tammy or we are doomed with just those two

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