The Project - Are we in a place to make it succeed ?

[BobBobSuperBob]

Not a LJ thread !!  as he forms only the 'front end' / part of the project , so interested in the views of all on this !!

The Project / Philosophy

As far as I understand , from all I've read and heard from SL / MA over the last 18 months is that the basis of our project / way forward is to build and maintain a squad of young players (With one or two experienced heads) either developed through our academy & young players purchased , all of whom we aim to develop and increase in value whilst performing to a good level on the pitch , for us , whilst they are here.

A really good sounding philosophy / ideal for sure and one many clubs are now deciding is the way forward , particularly in light of the difficulty of competing with clubs with a much higher income.

For this philosophy to be a success , IMHO , and I would hope most would agree on this it requires

 

A) Consistent Excellent coaching at all levels

B) Consistent Excellent Recruitment 

C) An Excellent Academy

 

When I use the word Excellent in those contexts , IMHO they have to be exactly that , not 'ok' or 'not bad' or 'generally good' but Excellent

IMHO these three areas alone are areas that have to be top drawer as to the very nature of the philosophy If and when we do recruit or self develop any kind of potential gem it won't be long before the wolves will come knocking and make an offer we won't turn down , with the idea I presume that that money will then go to purchase other young players to develop and so on , thus I would suggest a constant turnover of players , if the project is to be a sustained one

So I get the idea and it sounds great if you can make it work

What concerns me , is that for as long as I can remember

A) Our academy and history of finding and producing our own players has never been 'Excellent'

(I am not knowledgable about our current Academy set up and in BT we certainly have a man who will give everything he's got to improve this side , but we would need to Get Category One Status I would surmise to really push on 

Interested in the views of those with a better knowledge of the current situation

it also can't be good that the U23 Coach changes every 5 mins seemingly

B) Our scouting / recruiting historically , with the odd noticeable exception (SC) has been hap hazard and messy and we've never had a good , structured , established scouting network and currently , again , don't have a permanent Head Of Recruitment

C) As for our first team coaching I think it would be safe to say that as yet this remains unknown / unproven in terms of development at first team level by excellent coaching.

So in the three key areas that IMHO need to be excellent for this philosophy to succeed I'd suggest we are at best totally unproven in any of them.

We have to be better in these areas than the vast majority of numerous Clubs who all have the same idea 

Am I seeing this wrong ?

Are my concerns founded or unfounded ?

Genuinely interested in others views on this and the project / philosophy as like it or not that's the path we are following and where the confidence in some emanates from

 

I'd love to think the project can work as it would be good to watch but when I look at the reality I can't say my confidence is very high 

 

[Spoons]

Very deep for a Sunday morning Bob! 

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Very deep for a Sunday morning Bob! 

Well LJ is here for the forseeable

the players have woken up

Survival looks a decent possibility

And SL has made his views / plans absolutely clear

So been thinking about how we go forward from here and hence the project which will have even more of an influence on our future than whoever is the head coach IMHO 

Genuinely interested in thoughts on this and hoped it's one for a good thoughtful discussion that doesn't have to go downhill 

 

Hoping that some can increase my confidence !!

 

[22A]

"B) Our scouting / recruiting historically , with the odd noticeable exception (SC) has been hap hazard and messy and we've never had a good , structured , established scouting network and currently"

I'll disagree there. Scouting & Recruitment, maybe not excellent, but were adequate from the earliest days until (please feel free to discus), Jordan left and Lumsden became Manager. Before that though, there were some notable omissions (others will think of more), Paul Cheesley was born and grew up in Gordano, but City missed him and ended up buying him from that other local team; Norwich! Mike Summerbee was a reject from City's Youth Team, so Swindon snapped him up and later sold him to Manchester City when they were one of England's top teams and he also played for England in the 1970 World Cup.

[cityloyal473]

The 'project' (I hate that word in a football context) is very much 'talk the talk' at the moment.

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, 22A said:

"B) Our scouting / recruiting historically , with the odd noticeable exception (SC) has been hap hazard and messy and we've never had a good , structured , established scouting network and currently"

I'll disagree there. Scouting & Recruitment, maybe not excellent, but were adequate from the earliest days until (please feel free to discus), Jordan left and Lumsden became Manager. Before that though, there were some notable omissions (others will think of more), Paul Cheesley was born and grew up in Gordano, but City missed him and ended up buying him from that other local team; Norwich! Mike Summerbee was a reject from City's Youth Team, so Swindon snapped him up and later sold him to Manchester City when they were one of England's top teams and he also played for England in the 1970 World Cup.

The recruitment historically was down to Manager / Asst Manager and a scout traditionally and thus varied over different seasons and eras

Now times have changed and the recruitment has become a major department of Clubs and should provide a proven structured , consistent system

We still seem to be a far way off in this area , with Taylor (Who appeared to be a promising recruit) gone 

MA does, at least seem to have improved the way deals are kept in house and finalised

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Well LJ is here for the forseeable

the players have woken up

Survival looks a decent possibility

And SL has made his views / plans absolutely clear

So been thinking about how we go forward from here and hence the project which will have even more of an influence on our future than whoever is the head coach IMHO 

Genuinely interested in thoughts on this and hoped it's one for a good thoughtful discussion that doesn't have to go downhill 

 

SLs interview on the Subs Bench convinced me completely that's he has no intention of turning away from his long term plan for our club, significantly him supporting Junior so categorically when City were on a dreadful run of results

The OP sums up that plan as I understand it , pretty well.

The "issue" is as I see it actually getting the plan to bear fruit. We've already had a potentially serious teething problem which now ihas hopefully passed and it's likely we'll encounter more next season.

Will SL change tact then? I doubt it somehow.

[marmite]

20 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not a LJ thread !!  as he forms only the 'front end' / part of the project , so interested in the views of all on this !!

The Project / Philosophy

As far as I understand , from all I've read and heard from SL / MA over the last 18 months is that the basis of our project / way forward is to build and maintain a squad of young players (With one or two experienced heads) either developed through our academy & young players purchased , all of whom we aim to develop and increase in value whilst performing to a good level on the pitch , for us , whilst they are here.

A really good sounding philosophy / ideal for sure and one many clubs are now deciding is the way forward , particularly in light of the difficulty of competing with clubs with a much higher income.

For this philosophy to be a success , IMHO , and I would hope most would agree on this it requires

 

A) Consistent Excellent coaching at all levels

B) Consistent Excellent Recruitment 

C) An Excellent Academy

 

When I use the word Excellent in those contexts , IMHO they have to be exactly that , not 'ok' or 'not bad' or 'generally good' but Excellent

IMHO these three areas alone are areas that have to be top drawer as to the very nature of the philosophy If and when we do recruit or self develop any kind of potential gem it won't be long before the wolves will come knocking and make an offer we won't turn down , with the idea I presume that that money will then go to purchase other young players to develop and so on , thus I would suggest a constant turnover of players , if the project is to be a sustained one

So I get the idea and it sounds great if you can make it work

What concerns me , is that for as long as I can remember

A) Our academy and history of finding and producing our own players has never been 'Excellent'

(I am not knowledgable about our current Academy set up and in BT we certainly have a man who will give everything he's got to improve this side , but we would need to Get Category One Status I would surmise to really push on 

Interested in the views of those with a better knowledge of the current situation

it also can't be good that the U23 Coach changes every 5 mins seemingly

B) Our scouting / recruiting historically , with the odd noticeable exception (SC) has been hap hazard and messy and we've never had a good , structured , established scouting network and currently , again , don't have a permanent Head Of Recruitment

C) As for our first team coaching I think it would be safe to say that as yet this remains unknown / unproven in terms of development at first team level by excellent coaching.

So in the three key areas that IMHO need to be excellent for this philosophy to succeed I'd suggest we are at best totally unproven in any of them.

We have to be better in these areas than the vast majority of numerous Clubs who all have the same idea 

Am I seeing this wrong ?

Are my concerns founded or unfounded ?

Genuinely interested in others views on this and the project / philosophy as like it or not that's the path we are following and where the confidence in some emanates from

 

I'd love to think the project can work as it would be good to watch but when I look at the reality I can't say my confidence is very high 

 

Interesting post Bob. I agree with many of your views but the key thing is "building for the future". SL has said he wanted to be pushing for the Prem this season. Well that didn't happen! We seem to have acquired many players "for the future" this season  but that only works if you keep the same management team, which now seems likely. It may well be a slow long term plan to achieve the Project but I don't think we, as fans, will accept too many near misses like this season. We need to establish mid table next season as a minimum and then push on and challenge for top 6 the following years. Whether we have the right people in place to achieve this remains to be seen. We got out of jail this season, I hope, but its a tough league to compete in.

[Red Army 75]

I think the vision and passion SL has shown and the financial backing he continually given which I think every Bristol City fan appreciates. I'm glad they have a plan and continue to strive and commit to it . The chopping and changing of coaches at all levels and head scouts is obviously impeding the plan . Also I don't think anyone would of thought this season would of been so disappointing. Which obviously has resulted in big changes in coaching and scouting. I think in Brian Tinnion we have a great chance of the academy kicking on . We need cat 1 status. We need stability and consistency in keeping coaches and scouts. I really hope we get there. And we have an owner who desperately wants to get there . Yes he's made mistakes but while he owns the football club we have a chance . That's what I think and hope for .CTID 

Good post by the way BBSB

[BobBobSuperBob]

13 minutes ago, marmite said:

Interesting post Bob. I agree with many of your views but the key thing is "building for the future". SL has said he wanted to be pushing for the Prem this season. Well that didn't happen! We seem to have acquired many players "for the future" this season  but that only works if you keep the same management team, which now seems likely. It may well be a slow long term plan to achieve the Project but I don't think we, as fans, will accept too many near misses like this season. We need to establish mid table next season as a minimum and then push on and challenge for top 6 the following years. Whether we have the right people in place to achieve this remains to be seen. We got out of jail this season, I hope, but its a tough league to compete in.

And as I see it the chances of 'success' (If we refer to promotion to the Premier League) in the short term are slim, really slim

Any brighter / better players will be picked off and thus you have to produce or recruit at the same standard/success  and same rate just to stay still

The only chance of success in the way of threatening promotion would be to get together a group of players who quickly (Over one season / 18 months) who blossom together , individually and / or as a team ) before some of them are picked off 

This is possible , albeit a big ask

That doesn't bother me too much personally - I think the Championship is great and I'm in no hurry to leave it in either direction if I'm honest

What concerns me is the requirement to constantly produce or purchase raw gems to replace any lost ,  and our capability to do so, just to stay in Championship

Southampton is the obvious example of a sucesssful model but their recruitment and development of young players has been established for 30 yrs or so

When I had some involvement in the Schoolboy / youth side 25 yrs ago Southampton already had satellite coaching centres all over the place including Bath and were recruiting the best kids from the South West and in South Wales even then - they were and still are light years ahead of us and their whole youth development system has been established and fine tuned for 10-15 yrs 

In reality , I think we will pursue and try and follow this philosophy but will be forced into ( regularly ) reverting to spending on established Championship players ( 'off project' I guess would be the phrase !! ) just to maintain our status

 

[TRL]

Our philosophy as stated by SL is to use our academy and buy proven older players to blend the young talented squad.

 

If this true can some one explain

Lucic

Brownhill

O'Dowda

Engval

Magnusson

Smith

Moore

Girolamo

Mckoulsky

And On loan Abraham

 

Is this called producing your own youth products now? As it still looks to me like we are buying and recruiting talent from other teams academies not really developing our own too well.

 

That's nearly a teams worth of young talent in the way of our white elephant academy bought or recruited in the past year

[Red Army 75]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

And as I see it the chances of success in the short term are slim

Any brighter / better players will be picked off and thus you have to produce or recruit at the same standard/success  and same rate just to stay still

The only chance of success in the way of threatening promotion would be to get together a group of players who quickly (Over one season / 18 months) who blossom together , individually and / or as a team ) before some of them are picked off 

This is possible , albeit a big ask

That doesn't bother me too much personally - I think the Championship is great and I'm in no hurry to leave it in either direction if I'm honest

What concerns me is the requirement to constantly produce or purchase raw gems to replace any lost ,  and our capability to do so, just to stay in Championship

Southampton is the obvious example of a sucesssful model but their recruitment and development of young players has been established for 30 yrs or so

When I had some involvement in the Schoolboy / youth side 25 yrs ago Southampton already had satellite coaching centres all over the place including Bath and were recruiting the best kids from the South West and in South Wales even then - they were and still are light years ahead of us and their whole youth development system has been established and fine tuned for 10-15 yrs 

 

It's a shame Southampton have control of bath . When I can ride there on a bike in 30 minutes. We definitely need cat 1 status .

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, TRL said:

Our philosophy as stated by SL is to use our academy and buy proven older players to blend the young talented squad.

 

If this true can some one explain

Lucic

Brownhill

O'Dowda

Engval

Magnusson

Smith

Moore

Girolamo

Mckoulsky

And On loan Abraham

 

Is this called producing your own youth products now? As it still looks to me like we are buying and recruiting talent from other teams academies not really developing our own too well.

 

That's nearly a teams worth of young talent in the way of our white elephant academy bought or recruited in the past year

Think tbf the idea is to Produce our own from the academy , as well as  buying players 24 and under with a view to developing them and thus increasing their value 

[Cowshed]

39 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not a LJ thread !!  as he forms only the 'front end' / part of the project , so interested in the views of all on this !!

The Project / Philosophy

As far as I understand , from all I've read and heard from SL / MA over the last 18 months is that the basis of our project / way forward is to build and maintain a squad of young players (With one or two experienced heads) either developed through our academy & young players purchased , all of whom we aim to develop and increase in value whilst performing to a good level on the pitch , for us , whilst they are here.

A really good sounding philosophy / ideal for sure and one many clubs are now deciding is the way forward , particularly in light of the difficulty of competing with clubs with a much higher income.

For this philosophy to be a success , IMHO , and I would hope most would agree on this it requires

 

A) Consistent Excellent coaching at all levels

B) Consistent Excellent Recruitment 

C) An Excellent Academy

 

When I use the word Excellent in those contexts , IMHO they have to be exactly that , not 'ok' or 'not bad' or 'generally good' but Excellent

IMHO these three areas alone are areas that have to be top drawer as to the very nature of the philosophy If and when we do recruit or self develop any kind of potential gem it won't be long before the wolves will come knocking and make an offer we won't turn down , with the idea I presume that that money will then go to purchase other young players to develop and so on , thus I would suggest a constant turnover of players , if the project is to be a sustained one

So I get the idea and it sounds great if you can make it work

What concerns me , is that for as long as I can remember

A) Our academy and history of finding and producing our own players has never been 'Excellent'

(I am not knowledgable about our current Academy set up and in BT we certainly have a man who will give everything he's got to improve this side , but we would need to Get Category One Status I would surmise to really push on 

Interested in the views of those with a better knowledge of the current situation

it also can't be good that the U23 Coach changes every 5 mins seemingly

B) Our scouting / recruiting historically , with the odd noticeable exception (SC) has been hap hazard and messy and we've never had a good , structured , established scouting network and currently , again , don't have a permanent Head Of Recruitment

C) As for our first team coaching I think it would be safe to say that as yet this remains unknown / unproven in terms of development at first team level by excellent coaching.

So in the three key areas that IMHO need to be excellent for this philosophy to succeed I'd suggest we are at best totally unproven in any of them.

We have to be better in these areas than the vast majority of numerous Clubs who all have the same idea 

Am I seeing this wrong ?

Are my concerns founded or unfounded ?

Genuinely interested in others views on this and the project / philosophy as like it or not that's the path we are following and where the confidence in some emanates from

 

I'd love to think the project can work as it would be good to watch but when I look at the reality I can't say my confidence is very high 

 

The academy .. 

At this point the regional centre of excellence is Southampton, not Bristol City. This is not down to being cat 1 or cat 2 its down to Southampton FC no matter who they are run by having a fundamental belief that youth development is a building block.

Got a talented kid send him to the Saints is what you hear everywhere. City are not the club of choice.

At Bristol City Mr Lansdown changes philosophy by the season. Southampton keep to a commitment to youth development measurable by decades. it is a relentless pursuit of producing players

City via coaching schools, development centres, the community trust, the player pathway need to be everywhere to alter that City are not the club of choice, they are not close to being highly visible even in Bristol. 

 

[TRL]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Think tbf the idea is to Produce our own from the academy , as well as  buying players 24 and under with a view to developing them and thus increasing their value 

I know. But look how many we buy. If you want a great academy why put so many blockers in the way for the graduates. I know I have probably missed some off that list. But that is pretty much a starting line-up in the way of the academy lads before you even look at the first team

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, Cowshed said:

The academy .. 

At this point the regional centre of excellence is Southampton, not Bristol City. This is not down to being cat 1 or cat 2 its down to Southampton FC no matter who they are run by having a fundamental belief that youth development is a building block.

Got a talented kid send him to the Saints is what you hear everywhere. City are not the club of choice.

At Bristol City Mr Lansdown changes philosophy by the season. Southampton keep to a commitment to youth development measurable by decades. it is a relentless pursuit of producing players

City via coaching schools, development centres, the community trust, the player pathway need to be everywhere to alter that City are not the club of choice, they are not close to being highly visible even in Bristol. 

 

Very good post and point and I'd agree 

Sadly , however much we put into it that's not going to change anytime soon either

Southampton tick every box in that respect and arguably have the best set up nationally

Its a shame that we are so close geographically - I would be upping our scouting in Ireland and Scotland for one

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, TRL said:

I know. But look how many we buy. If you want a great academy why put so many blockers in the way for the graduates. I know I have probably missed some off that list. But that is pretty much a starting line-up in the way of the academy lads before you even look at the first team

I think , because we havnt got youngsters in our academy deemed good enough at the present

Im not knowledgable on that front but listening to those that are it seems the case

[TRL]

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I think , because we havnt got youngsters in our academy deemed good enough at the present

Im not knowledgable on that front but listening to those that are it seems the case

Ie my white elephant remark. How long have we had an academy now? And what have we really ever produced.  Rosenior and Brennan ,maybe you could class Hill and Coles as they went up not down from us.

 

Interesting that the only time we had a few decent young graduates was when lennartson came in and played them... because he was a good coach/manager who knew the meaning of promoting youth.

 

We can pump all the money in the world into the academy, but until we have a head coach/manager that has the balls to use it, rather than think about their own career first then imho it is pointless 

[Cowshed]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Very good post and point and I'd agree 

Sadly , however much we put into it that's not going to change anytime soon either

Southampton tick every box in that respect and arguably have the best set up nationally

Its a shame that we are so close geographically - I would be upping our scouting in Ireland and Scotland for one

 

Bristol City engagement with its Community via coaching schools and development centres in Bristol, Bath, Melksham/Calne (both have football centres) etc -

More above.

You do not become the club of choice without wide prescience at grass roots level. Bristol City via the FC, Community Trust and Bristol Sport have a huge opportunity to attempt to be a more community centred option than Southampton, thus building relationships which a club eighty miles away not called Bristol anything should not be able to do. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, TRL said:

Ie my white elephant remark. How long have we had an academy now? And what have we really ever produced.  Rosenior and Brennan ,maybe you could class Hill and Coles as they went up not down from us.

 

Interesting that the only time we had a few decent young graduates was when lennartson came in and played them... because he was a good coach/manager who knew the meaning of promoting youth.

 

We can pump all the money in the world into the academy, but until we have a head coach/manager that has the balls to use it, rather than think about their own career first then imho it is pointless 

Fair points TRL

In fairness to LJ - now and recently is not really the time to be backing unproven youngsters (IMHO) (It can be argued that we shouldn't be in this position mind , and should be in a comfortable enough place to do it !)

They also have to be good enough - no point in throwing in youngsters just because it's the ideal thing

[Bourne End Red]

As you've touched on it's all about having the best youth coaches to help these kids develop.

We then employ people like Jamie mccalister who may be very good but are unproven. We should be head hunting proven youth coaches and paying them a lot more than they are on in order to prize them away from their current clubs.

The other problem is SL harps on about a clear pathway to the first team which I see no evidence of whatsoever. I've seen no youth thrown in or coming on as subs to back any of this up. Granted we are struggling and need to stay up so I'm guessing/hoping this is why no youth players are getting any minutes on the pitch.

What also annoys me is SL praising the academy for Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid. Yes fair enough but these lads are in their mid twenties now.

Personally I think it's a great idea and SL throws money at it but then just like the first team he doesn't employ/pay the coaches who are the most important part in all this.

I hope this plan happens and works but I wonder if it's all just pie in the sky to be honest.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, Bourne End Red said:

As you've touched on it's all about having the best youth coaches to help these kids develop.

We then employ people like Jamie mccalister who may be very good but are unproven. We should be head hunting proven youth coaches and paying them a lot more than they are on in order to prize them away from their current clubs.

The other problem is SL harps on about a clear pathway to the first team which I see no evidence of whatsoever. I've seen no youth thrown in or coming on as subs to back any of this up. Granted we are struggling and need to stay up so I'm guessing/hoping this is why no youth players are getting any minutes on the pitch.

What also annoys me is SL praising the academy for Joe Bryan and Bobby Reid. Yes fair enough but these lads are in their mid twenties now.

Personally I think it's a great idea and SL throws money at it but then just like the first team he doesn't employ/pay the coaches who are the most important part in all this.

I hope this plan happens and works but I wonder if it's all just pie in the sky to be honest.

Totally agree on both those main points BER

Headhunt and attract the best coaches definitely - and I agree  - we don't seem to follow that important path

and

Must be evidence that there is a clear youth pathway ( Difficult right now as we don't seem to have too many academy graduates pushing for a place )

[TRL]

7 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Fair points TRL

In fairness to LJ - now and recently is not really the time to be backing unproven youngsters (IMHO) (It can be argued that we shouldn't be in this position mind , and should be in a comfortable enough place to do it !)

They also have to be good enough - no point in throwing in youngsters just because it's the ideal thing

Oh I agree you can kill confidence in a relegation threatened team.. But we have always been a yo yo team. You can't out youth in when we are going for promotion. You can't put youth in when we are in a relegation battle. Unless we break our historical yo yoing when do you see us ever breaking the cheap academy cycle? For me, if we are ever to use it properly much has to change in terms of stability and the end of yo yoing between 2nd and 3rd divisions. Or you put then in. Back them 100% and give then the game time they need in Bristol City's first team (not some low level league team). Granted you need buy in from the fans who can break a promising career when frustrated with on field performances.

It has to be said some players that look average in the stiffs thoroughly thrive with better players around them. 

Clearly some must be good enough to earn new contracts. Play them. Stop buying on other teams potential. Because the only difference is the other team give their potential to shine by playing them,where we stifle ours and they don't get a sniff.

[Bourne End Red]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

Totally agree on both those main points BER

Headhunt and attract the best coaches definitely - and I agree  - we don't seem to follow that important path

and

Must be evidence that there is a clear youth pathway ( Difficult right now as we don't seem to have too many academy graduates pushing for a place )

The other problem is we are as usual playing catch up with all the other clubs who have this all in place. It's gonna take a long long time to bear fruit I think.

What I think would be a better idea like we have done is buying young players who will develop such as Odowda. I think we'd be best off recruiting players who are say 17-21 years old and develop them from there they still have room to grow in ability and value.

I fear the academy route is going to be hard to achieve and until we get to Cat 1 we really are wasting time and money because the cat 1 clubs will just come and cherry pick from us.

[Bourne End Red]

Also out of interest from anyone that watches our academy are there any players there that are remotely good enough to be breaking into the first team?

[Port Said Red]

One point I would like to make about the U23's and more especially the younger age groups, unlike the 1st team I actually think that changing the coach regularly is an advantage. i think it does them good to be exposed to as many different techniques, ideas and methodologies as possible in their formative years. I think its not until they reach the first team that more consistency is required. 

[The Humble Realist]

1 hour ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not a LJ thread !!  as he forms only the 'front end' / part of the project , so interested in the views of all on this !!

The Project / Philosophy

As far as I understand , from all I've read and heard from SL / MA over the last 18 months is that the basis of our project / way forward is to build and maintain a squad of young players (With one or two experienced heads) either developed through our academy & young players purchased , all of whom we aim to develop and increase in value whilst performing to a good level on the pitch , for us , whilst they are here.

A really good sounding philosophy / ideal for sure and one many clubs are now deciding is the way forward , particularly in light of the difficulty of competing with clubs with a much higher income.

For this philosophy to be a success , IMHO , and I would hope most would agree on this it requires

 

A) Consistent Excellent coaching at all levels

B) Consistent Excellent Recruitment 

C) An Excellent Academy

 

When I use the word Excellent in those contexts , IMHO they have to be exactly that , not 'ok' or 'not bad' or 'generally good' but Excellent

IMHO these three areas alone are areas that have to be top drawer as to the very nature of the philosophy If and when we do recruit or self develop any kind of potential gem it won't be long before the wolves will come knocking and make an offer we won't turn down , with the idea I presume that that money will then go to purchase other young players to develop and so on , thus I would suggest a constant turnover of players , if the project is to be a sustained one

So I get the idea and it sounds great if you can make it work

What concerns me , is that for as long as I can remember

A) Our academy and history of finding and producing our own players has never been 'Excellent'

(I am not knowledgable about our current Academy set up and in BT we certainly have a man who will give everything he's got to improve this side , but we would need to Get Category One Status I would surmise to really push on 

Interested in the views of those with a better knowledge of the current situation

it also can't be good that the U23 Coach changes every 5 mins seemingly

B) Our scouting / recruiting historically , with the odd noticeable exception (SC) has been hap hazard and messy and we've never had a good , structured , established scouting network and currently , again , don't have a permanent Head Of Recruitment

C) As for our first team coaching I think it would be safe to say that as yet this remains unknown / unproven in terms of development at first team level by excellent coaching.

So in the three key areas that IMHO need to be excellent for this philosophy to succeed I'd suggest we are at best totally unproven in any of them.

We have to be better in these areas than the vast majority of numerous Clubs who all have the same idea 

Am I seeing this wrong ?

Are my concerns founded or unfounded ?

Genuinely interested in others views on this and the project / philosophy as like it or not that's the path we are following and where the confidence in some emanates from

 

I'd love to think the project can work as it would be good to watch but when I look at the reality I can't say my confidence is very high 

 

Great post and good to look at this from a non LJ perspective.

 

The club would appeae to have had a good year OFF the pitch...selling kodjia for a massive profit. ..reaping sell on clauses for Albert and Bolasie and generally a decent years worth of recruitment. The stadium was also completed so that's all excellent.  

However ...I fear this is all a bit false/unusual...we have replaced kodjia very successfully with tammy but he will be gone in the summer leaving a hole. 

It's unusual for us to get those 3 extra bits of windfall in one summer ...in fact in the last 20 years I've never known us get a sell on clause windfall for anyone!

The players brought in I think most would agree are an improvement on last year but our league position doesn't reflect it..

Moore , Engval were both expensive purchases but clearly aren't up to it ....yet.

The only academy player to really break into the team is Bryan....reid is in and out .

On Saturday 6 of the 7 players on the bench were players purchased in the last 12 months...

Sorry my points are a bit rambly. ..my point really is that at the very best the off the pitch stuff is a mixed bag in terms of translating to on the pitch. ..as the OP says this needs to be better than this for any 'project' to succeed

[Kid in the Riot]

How much does SL really want the academy to succeed? I've never been 100% sure.

Yes, he's ploughed millions into it and got cat 2 status. But word on the street for many years has been that a lot of parents feel Rovers have a better and more personable youth system where youngsters are treated better. 

Rovers now have a stated desire to get cat 2 status for their academy. Unless I've missed it there are no imminent plans for us to get to cat 1 status.

If I was ploughing millions into the academy I'd be asking some serious questions as to why in the past 5 years we've only had Bryan and Reid come through. 

15 years of SL investment and it seems a long way off being how good it potentially could be. 

How much does he really want it? Does he believe himself when he says the project is working and there is this mythical pathway into the first team? Even if the pathway exists, it's either not being utilised or the players being produced aren't good enough! 

[CyderInACan]

All the talk of Saints having the pick o the best players from Bristol, Bath and surrounding areas, but how many of the lads from "our" area have gone on to become Champ/Prem players through their system? Genuine question. I can't think of any but might be wrong. Can only think of Jack Butland but he got his break with Brum. 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

All the talk of Saints having the pick o the best players from Bristol, Bath and surrounding areas, but how many of the lads from "our" area have gone on to become Champ/Prem players through their system? Genuine question. I can't think of any but might be wrong. Can only think of Jack Butland but he got his break with Brum. 

 

Southamptons youth player of the season is from Long Ashton! Kills me