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OFFICIAL Lions Tour 2017 thread


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2 hours ago, hodge said:

Gatland said there had been no official requests to move the date of the event, but why even have the press day while the club season is ongoing? Couldn't it have been done the day before the players joined up for training? 

It does seem a bit weird. That said, Sarries must have fancied that they'd a decent chance of reaching the European Cup final. The time to complain was when they got the Lions schedule, not the day of the press event.

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12 minutes ago, hodge said:

'Weight of expectation' coming from the coach of the team who are favourites to win the series :laugh:

I haven't met anyone who expects the Lions to win a single test. Many think they will struggle against the Maori and Super Rugby sides! Hansen's reputation for talking through his hoop grows bigger by the day.

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I think we have a very good chance of winning 1 test. I think it will be 2-1 to new Zealand. This lions squad is the best in a long time. Still think Launchbury should be there. 

Feel for the Saracens players. They must be burned out royally with all their games, then they have to fly to nz as well. 

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14 hours ago, The Batman said:

I think we have a very good chance of winning 1 test. I think it will be 2-1 to new Zealand. This lions squad is the best in a long time. Still think Launchbury should be there. 

Feel for the Saracens players. They must be burned out royally with all their games, then they have to fly to nz as well. 

Fair play to you. I just don't see it to be honest. It is a very good Lions squad but this is an excellent NZ side and the tour schedule is horrendous enough to strain a squad of any size. They play six matches in two and a half weeks and then the Hurricanes midweek between the first and second tests! Hope I'm wrong of course.

Hopefully it'll dent Sarries prospects in Europe next season, they're a serious team.

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8 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Fair play to you. I just don't see it to be honest. It is a very good Lions squad but this is an excellent NZ side and the tour schedule is horrendous enough to strain a squad of any size. They play six matches in two and a half weeks and then the Hurricanes midweek between the first and second tests! Hope I'm wrong of course.

Hopefully it'll dent Sarries prospects in Europe next season, they're a serious team.

 

I know NZ are still the best in the world, but they are beatable if teams attack them, they do concede tries and pens at the breakdown, it's just they tend to score more than the opposition. Old School Real Madrid "you score 3 we'll score 5" logic.

I do agree about the number of matches, but it is the same number of matches in total than the 2013 tour in Australia (and one of those matches was in Hong Kong) - obviously Mr Gatland is sticking with the same format hoping to replicate the success.

Out of the Saracens players, i think only Billy V will be starting for the Lions. I dont think Farrell will be starting at 10 as that is for Sexton and i think the Midfield he'll start with will be Henshaw and Joseph (bias on my part being a Bath fan, but for his attacking threat and his defensive organisation, he simply has to play). I'd love for him to start with Itoje, but I dont think he will, but he has him as an option for Lock or Flank if need be.

If up to me, the starting 15 would be this

McGrath, Best, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Warburton, Stander, B Vunipola.

Murray, Sexton, Farrell, Joseph, North, Watson, Hogg.

But I imagine Mr Gatland's will look very different. Wyn Jones and Halfpenny will be starting and I think he'll throw Kruis in at Lock too. We really are blessed with some phenomenal talent this tour.

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4 hours ago, The Batman said:

 

I know NZ are still the best in the world, but they are beatable if teams attack them, they do concede tries and pens at the breakdown, it's just they tend to score more than the opposition. Old School Real Madrid "you score 3 we'll score 5" logic.

I do agree about the number of matches, but it is the same number of matches in total than the 2013 tour in Australia (and one of those matches was in Hong Kong) - obviously Mr Gatland is sticking with the same format hoping to replicate the success.

Out of the Saracens players, i think only Billy V will be starting for the Lions. I dont think Farrell will be starting at 10 as that is for Sexton and i think the Midfield he'll start with will be Henshaw and Joseph (bias on my part being a Bath fan, but for his attacking threat and his defensive organisation, he simply has to play). I'd love for him to start with Itoje, but I dont think he will, but he has him as an option for Lock or Flank if need be.

If up to me, the starting 15 would be this

McGrath, Best, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Warburton, Stander, B Vunipola.

Murray, Sexton, Farrell, Joseph, North, Watson, Hogg.

But I imagine Mr Gatland's will look very different. Wyn Jones and Halfpenny will be starting and I think he'll throw Kruis in at Lock too. We really are blessed with some phenomenal talent this tour.

I don't think they're invincible or anything, but it is difficult enough for anyone to go to down there and get a result, let alone a scratch team like the Lions.

The schedule is all about money. The Lions are a huge cash cow, especially when they're in NZ and unfortunately player welfare suddenly doesn't seem to be so important. 

If Fatland doesn't start with Farrell then he's barking mad. There's a very convincing argument that Farrell is the best stand off in the northern hemisphere but since you can get all your best players on the pitch at once I would 100% play Sexton at stand off and Farrell at 12 with Henshaw at 13 (he's a better 13 than a 12 anyway). I don't see Joseph troubling the 22, good player but for some reason I get the impression that Fatland doesn't rate him. I expect to see Itoje starting or benching with Mako Vunipola backing up McGrath. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see George starting or benching so they could easily have five and six if you include Liam Williams who is joining them next season. I'll be amazed if anyone but Furlong togs out at 3, he's the outstanding tighthead in Europe.

I would have:

McGrath, Best, Furlong, Itoje, Kruis,Stander, Tipuric, B.Vunipola; Murray, Sexton; Daly, Farrell, Henshaw, L. Williams, Hogg

with George, M. Vunipola, Sinckler, Lawes, O'Brien, Webb, Seymour, Payne benching.

Obviously Warburton will play and probably AWJ as you say but I can't see Halfpenny getting in ahead of Liam Williams or Stuart Hogg. No point having him on the bench either as he's not an impact player and you have Sexton and Farrell on the pitch to kick goals. Other factor is that 5-10 guys will inevitably get injured before the first test starts. It'll be interesting to see who Fatland's first reserves are.

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I'd agree with the injury comment, Sexton is always a target for club and country, Farrell seems to be built of sterner stuff and seems to be able to take the hits that Sexton cant. 

The first test vs New Zealand is the morning after my birthday, my friends have not decided whether to pull an all nighter the night before or dont go out and just have an all day session on the Saturday. I'm guessing they probably already know, but they are not telling me.

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19 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I'd agree with the injury comment, Sexton is always a target for club and country, Farrell seems to be built of sterner stuff and seems to be able to take the hits that Sexton cant. 

The first test vs New Zealand is the morning after my birthday, my friends have not decided whether to pull an all nighter the night before or dont go out and just have an all day session on the Saturday. I'm guessing they probably already know, but they are not telling me.

Sexton is definitely targeted because of his injury profile, particularly head injuries. It's my opinion that the IRFU should have stood him down for a year but he's had a pretty decent head injury free run for a while so what do I know. His problem is that he's as brave as they come and puts his body on the line with no regard for his own safety. Plenty of guys do the same but not with his injury record. I wouldn't worry about Farrell and Murray combining either, both are world class and it'd be great for Farrell's development to play outside the best scrum half on the planet.

That's good timing. Hope they give you a late birthday present. I'd be inclined to go with the latter and indeed I will be for the second test at least. I'm too old foe all nighters!

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On 18/05/2017 at 17:21, The Batman said:

 

I know NZ are still the best in the world, but they are beatable if teams attack them, they do concede tries and pens at the breakdown, it's just they tend to score more than the opposition. Old School Real Madrid "you score 3 we'll score 5" logic.

I do agree about the number of matches, but it is the same number of matches in total than the 2013 tour in Australia (and one of those matches was in Hong Kong) - obviously Mr Gatland is sticking with the same format hoping to replicate the success.

Out of the Saracens players, i think only Billy V will be starting for the Lions. I dont think Farrell will be starting at 10 as that is for Sexton and i think the Midfield he'll start with will be Henshaw and Joseph (bias on my part being a Bath fan, but for his attacking threat and his defensive organisation, he simply has to play). I'd love for him to start with Itoje, but I dont think he will, but he has him as an option for Lock or Flank if need be.

If up to me, the starting 15 would be this

McGrath, Best, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Warburton, Stander, B Vunipola.

Murray, Sexton, Farrell, Joseph, North, Watson, Hogg.

But I imagine Mr Gatland's will look very different. Wyn Jones and Halfpenny will be starting and I think he'll throw Kruis in at Lock too. We really are blessed with some phenomenal talent this tour.

It may be the same amount of matches as 2013, but that is where the similarity ends!

The quality of the NZ sides knocks spots of anything the Aussies had in 2013.

The super rugby sides would quite possibly beat most International teams, it just depends how seriously they take the Lions games. Mind you, the Chiefs played a largely reserve side against Wales last year but still put 40 points past them!

The lions will have to be the fittest side to ever leave these shores, because every team they face will run at them for 80 minutes. 

Its simply the hardest tour any team could take on, if the Lions win half the games they play, they will deserve emense credit.

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2 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

It may be the same amount of matches as 2013, but that is where the similarity ends!

The quality of the NZ sides knocks spots of anything the Aussies had in 2013.

The super rugby sides would quite possibly beat most International teams, it just depends how seriously they take the Lions games. Mind you, the Chiefs played a largely reserve side against Wales last year but still put 40 points past them!

The lions will have to be the fittest side to ever leave these shores, because every team they face will run at them for 80 minutes. 

Its simply the hardest tour any team could take on, if the Lions win half the games they play, they will deserve emense credit.

Agree with everything you say Bill. A reserve/developmental Munster team stuffed the NZ Maori earlier in the season though, there is hope.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/munster-go-back-to-the-future-to-claim-famous-win-over-maori-all-blacks-1.2864951

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5 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

It may be the same amount of matches as 2013, but that is where the similarity ends!

The quality of the NZ sides knocks spots of anything the Aussies had in 2013.

The super rugby sides would quite possibly beat most International teams, it just depends how seriously they take the Lions games. Mind you, the Chiefs played a largely reserve side against Wales last year but still put 40 points past them!

The lions will have to be the fittest side to ever leave these shores, because every team they face will run at them for 80 minutes. 

Its simply the hardest tour any team could take on, if the Lions win half the games they play, they will deserve emense credit.

That's good though Bill.

The tougher the warm up matches, the better for when the tests actually come about.

Otherwise complacency gets in the way. When i played rugby not so long ago, we learned nothing from the 40/50 - 0 matches, the ones i always enjoyed most were the close matches, regardless of whether we won or lost, the intensity and the mindset that you had to improve stuck with us (obviously yes, better when we won but you know what I mean)

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6 minutes ago, The Batman said:

That's good though Bill.

The tougher the warm up matches, the better for when the tests actually come about.

Otherwise complacency gets in the way. When i played rugby not so long ago, we learned nothing from the 40/50 - 0 matches, the ones i always enjoyed most were the close matches, regardless of whether we won or lost, the intensity and the mindset that you had to improve stuck with us (obviously yes, better when we won but you know what I mean)

True enough. We all want to see contests throughout the tour and I'm sure that's what the players want as well. It could be a case of who is left standing by the time the first test comes around with that schedule though. Then they meet the Canes midweek between the first two tests. I still can't believe that the Lions agreed to this schedule, there's certainly going to be a lot of unhappy clubs come mid July.

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1 hour ago, MichaelRobartes said:

True enough. We all want to see contests throughout the tour and I'm sure that's what the players want as well. It could be a case of who is left standing by the time the first test comes around with that schedule though. Then they meet the Canes midweek between the first two tests. I still can't believe that the Lions agreed to this schedule, there's certainly going to be a lot of unhappy clubs come mid July.

Agree with what you say Michael, I wonder who had the final say re the Lions, with regard to the schedule!

Cant wait for it all to get going now.

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How not to win a Lions series: Discord & disarray, 12 years on - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40069682

Some interesting stuff here. Woodward being a bit of a dick at the end on the Lions having players room and train together again in 2009 yet still losing. There were no similarities between Woodward's shambolic organisation in 2005 and what I considered to be a very closely fought series which could have easily gone the other way in 2009. Woodward destroyed so much of the essence of the Lions that they had to go back to a guy like McGeechan who did a fantastic job.

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On 30 May 2017 at 09:44, MichaelRobartes said:

How not to win a Lions series: Discord & disarray, 12 years on - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40069682

Some interesting stuff here. Woodward being a bit of a dick at the end on the Lions having players room and train together again in 2009 yet still losing. There were no similarities between Woodward's shambolic organisation in 2005 and what I considered to be a very closely fought series which could have easily gone the other way in 2009. Woodward destroyed so much of the essence of the Lions that they had to go back to a guy like McGeechan who did a fantastic job.

I remember that tour Michael as being an England Rugby follower, I hoped that Woodward would do a good job, we all know how it went sadly.

Talking to friends after the first test, (the spear tackle one?!?) we agreed that probably the only two Lions who would get into the All Blacks 15 was ODriscol (probably) and Delalio (possibly), and the Blacks made sure SO wouldn't play any further part on the tour at the start, we didn't stand much of a chance.

Much as I admire Geech, I don't think it would have made any difference to the outcome of the tour.

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22 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

I remember that tour Michael as being an England Rugby follower, I hoped that Woodward would do a good job, we all know how it went sadly.

Talking to friends after the first test, (the spear tackle one?!?) we agreed that probably the only two Lions who would get into the All Blacks 15 was ODriscol (probably) and Delalio (possibly), and the Blacks made sure SO wouldn't play any further part on the tour at the start, we didn't stand much of a chance.

Much as I admire Geech, I don't think it would have made any difference to the outcome of the tour.

I hoped he would as well. 

The first test was the spear tackle yes. I agree that there weren't many players that would have made the NZ 22 even and that even an old school approach wouldn't have stopped the Lions getting their asses kicked. 

I just think it's very petty of Woodward to make that comment about 2009.Splitting the camp into test players and dirt trackers was pretty inept man management whatever way you look at it and he has to carry the can for that. However much he criticises the traditional way of doing things there's no doubt that he ballsed up big time there. SA were a very good side in 2009, after the Lions tour they went on to beat NZ in all three Tri Nations meetings, including the final match in Hamilton. The Lions were very close to winning that series, and the tour as a whole was incomparable to the shambles in 2005.

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12 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I hoped he would as well. 

The first test was the spear tackle yes. I agree that there weren't many players that would have made the NZ 22 even and that even an old school approach wouldn't have stopped the Lions getting their asses kicked. 

I just think it's very petty of Woodward to make that comment about 2009.Splitting the camp into test players and dirt trackers was pretty inept man management whatever way you look at it and he has to carry the can for that. However much he criticises the traditional way of doing things there's no doubt that he ballsed up big time there. SA were a very good side in 2009, after the Lions tour they went on to beat NZ in all three Tri Nations meetings, including the final match in Hamilton. The Lions were very close to winning that series, and the tour as a whole was incomparable to the shambles in 2005.

Mate, we would have beat South Africa four years previous if the cowardly officials had done their job and sent the'local hero' off for eye gouging, that still really boils my piss..

Nevermind, looking forward to this tour and hope we might even get a fair crack of the whip regarding decisions on the field, although I'm not 'holding my breath'.

 

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34 minutes ago, B1ackbird said:

Mate, we would have beat South Africa four years previous if the cowardly officials had done their job and sent the'local hero' off for eye gouging, that still really boils my piss..

Nevermind, looking forward to this tour and hope we might even get a fair crack of the whip regarding decisions on the field, although I'm not 'holding my breath'.

 

Them's the breaks when you're on tour I suppose. I was pretty livid at the time too. 

Peyper, Garces and Poite are the refs for the test matches. I suppose you'd say it's a good thing that there are two northern hemisphere refs there. Peyper really isn't my cup of tea and I think Poite is dreadful, the scrum and breakdown are a total lottery with him calling the shots. The nightmare Poite scenario is 1-1 after two tests and NZ 4 points up in the 80th minute and the Lions get a scrum 5. Anything could happen there.

I think Garces is a very good referee though, one of the best around. The Lions will have Peyper and Garces against the Maori All Blacks and the Chiefs earlier in the tour, though I'm sure all the players will be familiar enough with them anyway.

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Well, we're almost there!

I see there is a lot of rain falling in and around Whangarei, so conditions could be interesting. 

Realisticly the Lions should put 50 points past the NZ Barbarian's tomorrow, they are by far the weakest team the Lions will play on this tour. A team made up of many players from the fourth tier of NZ rugby.

But, when I lived out there I was always told "never underestimate a kiwi", so we will see.

Looking forward to some fantastic games in the next month, the alarm is already set!

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