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OFFICIAL Lions Tour 2017 thread


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53 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I think Gatland has his test and midweek back threes the wrong way around. Have to factor in the quality of opposition but Liam Williams, Nowell and Daly all put their hands up today.

Would any of those three be able to cope with the likes of Savea and Naholo out wide on Saturday though? The physicality is going to go through the roof on Saturday, and the Lions backs are going to come up against a lot more than they have on this tour. 

The Lions have a good clear game plan that is now working well, we will find out on Saturday if it works against the All Blacks, can't wait.

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39 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Would any of those three be able to cope with the likes of Savea and Naholo out wide on Saturday though? The physicality is going to go through the roof on Saturday, and the Lions backs are going to come up against a lot more than they have on this tour. 

The Lions have a good clear game plan that is now working well, we will find out on Saturday if it works against the All Blacks, can't wait.

Aside from Daly who I'm sure will bench we won't find out for this week at least Bill, I'm positive that North, Watson and Halfpenny will start. I certainly don't see any of today's back three as being less savvy in defence than the lads who will start. I think eight or nine times out of ten New Zealand beat a scratch team like the Lions but am really looking forward to the tests now.

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On 20/06/2017 at 11:49, Portland Bill said:

Would any of those three be able to cope with the likes of Savea and Naholo out wide on Saturday though? The physicality is going to go through the roof on Saturday, and the Lions backs are going to come up against a lot more than they have on this tour. 

The Lions have a good clear game plan that is now working well, we will find out on Saturday if it works against the All Blacks, can't wait.

Just shows how much I know, Julian Savea and Naholo aren't even in the 23 let alone the starting 15!

Im amazed how 2 of the best and most powerful wingers in World rugby aren't involved on Saturday.

All black 23, with Lions to be announced at 8pm.

 

IMG_0821.PNG

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20 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

Just shows how much I know, Julian Savea and Naholo aren't even in the 23 let alone the starting 15!

Im amazed how 2 of the best and most powerful wingers in World rugby aren't involved on Saturday.

All black 23, with Lions to be announced at 8pm.

 

IMG_0821.PNG

Looks weak :whistle: :rofl2br:

Suprised Perenara isn't starting. Have you seen Codie Taylor play much Bill? I'm not sure I have. Is Cruden is injury doubt with Sopoaga backing him up?

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Quite like that team. People will talk about AWJ over Itoje but it's a fair enough call I'd say. No opposition would particularly relish seeing Itoje appear with half an hour or so to go.

I'd have liked Tipuric or CJ benching instead of Warburton and maybe Joseph or Nowell over Halfpenny but I suppose he covers the back three and gives you another kicking option. Delighted to see that back three, especially Williams at full back. 

Finally congratulations to Peter. A great Munsterman who has led us brilliantly after Paulie's retirement and then losing Axel. Doesn't always get the credit he deserves but he's a top top player. Absolutely delighted for him.

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4 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Looks weak :whistle: :rofl2br:

Suprised Perenara isn't starting. Have you seen Codie Taylor play much Bill? I'm not sure I have. Is Cruden is injury doubt with Sopoaga backing him up?

Taylor looks solid without being spectacular, yes Cruden got a leg injury about 3 weeks ago as far as I remember. 

This first test looks intriguing, the AB's back three have obviously been picked for their ability against the Lions kicking game, Smith and Dagg are probably the two best backs in NZ in that respect. Ioane is an interesting one, would imagine the Lions would test his inexperience in test rugby from the off!

Both packs are battle hardened, I'm surprised Itoje isn't starting, but I imagine Gatland is aware that the AB's kick on in the last 25 mins and a fresh Itoje will help to counteract that. 

Edit, just saw your post above, seems we are both thinking the same re Itoje!

 

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10 hours ago, Portland Bill said:

Taylor looks solid without being spectacular, yes Cruden got a leg injury about 3 weeks ago as far as I remember. 

This first test looks intriguing, the AB's back three have obviously been picked for their ability against the Lions kicking game, Smith and Dagg are probably the two best backs in NZ in that respect. Ioane is an interesting one, would imagine the Lions would test his inexperience in test rugby from the off!

Both packs are battle hardened, I'm surprised Itoje isn't starting, but I imagine Gatland is aware that the AB's kick on in the last 25 mins and a fresh Itoje will help to counteract that. 

Edit, just saw your post above, seems we are both thinking the same re Itoje!

 

We have a lad in Munster called Rhys Marshall from Taranaki who has been superb at hooker. If NZ have so many fellas above him then they must all be bloody good players!

I expect they remember what happened the last time they came up against Murray's box kicking. I don't expect him to get much change out of that back three, it's a good selection from Hansen. I know less about Ioane but imagine there will be more kicks his way than to the other two lads.

It'll be interesting to see how the set piece goes. Lions have lots of lineout options and will have to be dominant there to have any chance of winning. If they go well there and it chucks down as well then you never know.

NZ by 15.

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Interesting piece on POM here from Donncha O'Callaghan in The Times, it's behind a paywall but someone on the Munster forum was good enough to copy and paste it. Some good anecdotes:

Peter O’Mahony was a leader even at 19

Donncha O’Callaghan says former team-mate Peter O’Mahony will lead the Lions in the style of Martin Johnson

Imagine how it was to be Peter O’Mahony, lying there on a stretcher with both your knee and your World Cup dream shattered. Imagine how it must have felt to lose a year of your career and then your place in the Ireland team. And imagine the trauma he, and so many of us, endured when he lost Anthony Foley, his friend, mentor and coach at Munster, in October.

For nearly 18 months, life’s reality bit hard and then, on a murky March evening in the Aviva Stadium, fortune changed and a leap into a rugby fantasy world began, starting from the moment Joe Schmidt, the Ireland coach, took him to one side to say that Jamie Heaslip had suffered an injury in the warm-up and that he, Peter O’Mahony, would no longer be Irish rugby’s hard-luck story but instead would start against England.

Two hours later they named him man of the match. Last night Warren Gatland named him captain of the British & Irish Lions. All that pain, starting with the career-threatening knee injury that he suffered against France at the 2015 World Cup, through the dark months of rehab, and darker months wondering if he would ever be the same player again, has given way to a shot at rugby immortality.

Emotionally he is ready for this. If there are those who doubt whether he is mentally capable of coping with the strain of leading the Lions into the most intense arena of all, well that’s understandable. All they will know are the facts, that he wasn’t deemed good enough to start for Ireland in the RBS Six Nations Championship, that he has only captained his country against Canada and the United States.

What they might not be aware of is the man behind the stats, the character lurking beneath those intense eyes, the warrior within.

Me? Well, I’ve known the man since he was ten years old, the mascot at Cork Constitution, our local club. Even then there was an intensity burning in him. Unlike the other ballboys at the club, there wasn’t a giddiness about him, excited that he was hanging around the dressing room of an adult side. You could sense him taking everything in, looking at the first-teamers and probably thinking, “You’re in my jersey until I’m old enough to wear it”.

By the time we became Munster colleagues in 2009, I was a two-times Lions tourist, veteran of two World Cups and two Heineken Cup wins. He was 19, captain of the Ireland Under-20 side, the clear leader among the academy squad members who were training with us.

We were in the middle of a pre-season. Training was finishing up and one of the coaches asked us to do some extra work.

“Are you lot going to join us?” I shouted across to Peter, as he and the rest of the academy players made their way towards the dressing room. Those piercing eyes glared back. “Lads, let’s get to the line,” he said to his peers.

All of them ran to where we were. You could see by the reaction of their faces that once Peter said something, well that was it. They did it.

The competitiveness shone through in that fitness session and afterwards he came across and quietly spoke to me. “We’re following a specialised programme,” he said. “Because of our age, we’ve been warned not to overtrain because we might suffer burnout. Don’t put me in that scenario again.”

In no uncertain terms, I had been put in my place. I admired him for it, loving the fact that he was marrying a new school of scientific thought with old school belligerent values.

He is a different type of leader to the other great captains that I’ve played under. Like me, Peter shared a dressing room with Brian O’Driscoll and Paul O’Connell. Yet, when he replaced Doug Howlett as Munster’s captain four years ago, he never tried to be a clone of either him, Paulie or Drico. He’s comfortable enough in his own skin to be himself.

He doesn’t deliver rehearsed speeches. He came into a dressing room where the culture was to shout and roar before big games. That was the way we psyched ourselves up, knowing that we were minutes away from engaging in a kind of sporting combat.

But Peter wasn’t into that sort of thing. When he spoke, there was real value in every word. He would give you that look and once he did that, it was almost hypnotic. I would have done anything he asked.

I thought about that last night when the announcement came through that he was to be the Lions Test captain and thought about what Ronan O’Gara used to say about Denis Leamy, how “three weeks of thought went into two minutes of talk”. Well, that’s Peter. If he’s like anyone else, it’s Martin Johnson.

Remember the 2003 World Cup final? The England players involved in it will never forget it, nor what Johnson did just before he walked down the tunnel, stopping mid-stride to turn around and look back at all his team-mates, one by one. No words were exchanged because none was needed.

Those England players have since spoken about how Johnson’s glare got them buzzing for that match.

I used to get those kind of inspirational stares from Peter just before matches. The other 22 men sharing a dressing room with him on Saturday will know what I mean.

They won’t have O’Mahony stand among them like the Al Pacino character in Any Given Sunday and deliver a Hollywood-type speech. Players can smell the bull**** when that sort of thing is attempted.

Instead they will look at someone who has played brilliantly on tour, 

Instead they will look at someone who has played brilliantly on tour, who arrived in New Zealand with a reputation as a ball-carrier and who has since earned kudos for the quality of his skills. He wouldn’t be skipper if he was out of form.

Being in a high-class environment suits a man of his temperament. So does the captaincy.

It wouldn’t have surprised me if Peter had knocked on Jack Nowell, Liam Williams or George North’s doors over the past week, taken them to one side and said: “I’ve played against you, you destroyed us. You’re an incredible player. Trust yourself to find your form”.

He will find the right words. Just as he did the day after Anthony was buried, when in Munster’s Champions Cup game against Glasgow the referee called the two captains together and pleaded for calm. “They’re over-emotional,” Glasgow’s Jonny Gray suggested.

O’Mahony pushed him in the chest.

“Don’t ****ing tell us what emotions we should have,” he said.

That was the day we all saw our little brother grow up. A proud moment for the previous generation of Munstermen. Last night’s announcement, though, trumped even that.

Seeing him become captain of the Lions is an even prouder moment.

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2 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

We have a lad in Munster called Rhys Marshall from Taranaki who has been superb at hooker. If NZ have so many fellas above him then they must all be bloody good players!

I expect they remember what happened the last time they came up against Murray's box kicking. I don't expect him to get much change out of that back three, it's a good selection from Hansen. I know less about Ioane but imagine there will be more kicks his way than to the other two lads.

It'll be interesting to see how the set piece goes. Lions have lots of lineout options and will have to be dominant there to have any chance of winning. If they go well there and it chucks down as well then you never know.

NZ by 15.

I was reading that Ioane is the quickest player in NZ, even quicker than Barrett!, I've a sneaky suspicion that the AB's may be looking to kick in behind to try and nullify the rush defence of the Lions. I think the ball will be in the air a fair amount in this game!. 

I expect the first 15-20 minutes to be full of kicking and brutal exchanges up front. 

If the AB's do get their running game going then your prediction may be right, but I've a feeling it will be a lot closer simply because it's the first test. 

I do think that the AB's have changed some selections to try and counter the Lions, in this respect Gatland has got one up on Hansen. Being a three game series, I would have thought that Naholo and J Savea could possibly be being saved for the 2nd and third games, those two fresh and right up for it, could be a scary prospect, I still find it hard to believe that neither will be involved on Saturday though.

Saturday morning can't come quick enough now!, should be something special.

Edit, just saw this re Ioane. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/93989729/lions-tour-rieko-ioane-has-the-mental-fortitude-to-handle-his-biggest-test

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1 hour ago, Portland Bill said:

I was reading that Ioane is the quickest player in NZ, even quicker than Barrett!, I've a sneaky suspicion that the AB's may be looking to kick in behind to try and nullify the rush defence of the Lions. I think the ball will be in the air a fair amount in this game!. 

I expect the first 15-20 minutes to be full of kicking and brutal exchanges up front. 

If the AB's do get their running game going then your prediction may be right, but I've a feeling it will be a lot closer simply because it's the first test. 

I do think that the AB's have changed some selections to try and counter the Lions, in this respect Gatland has got one up on Hansen. Being a three game series, I would have thought that Naholo and J Savea could possibly be being saved for the 2nd and third games, those two fresh and right up for it, could be a scary prospect, I still find it hard to believe that neither will be involved on Saturday though.

Saturday morning can't come quick enough now!, should be something special.

Edit, just saw this re Ioane. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/93989729/lions-tour-rieko-ioane-has-the-mental-fortitude-to-handle-his-biggest-test

Thanks Bill, interesting read. Good to know that Ioane hasn't much pedigree! :rofl2br:

I suspect that you may be right about the kicking, at least initially. I'm not sure how much NZ will want to be kicking to the likes of Williams though (he will obviously now stink the place out and drop every ball). This will be the ultimate test of the Lions rush defence, I think the players will be fit enough individually to keep the standards up for 80 minutes, but as a unit? We'll find out. A lot will come down to the bench, Lions have good impact there but I'm not sure about Warburton and Halfpenny as impact players. I suppose if the latter comes on and kicks the winning goal everyone will say Gatland is a genius.

What do you think of Smith over Perenara? I was looking forward to seeing the latter up against Murray who (in my unbiased opinion) is the best scrum half on the planet right now.

It's not a very conservative prediction, but I just can't see a scratch team staying with NZ for 80 minutes, no matter who is togging out for them. I hope I'm wrong and we get a much closer test/series than that.

I think Lions need to win this test to have any chance because, as you say, NZ have fresh guys to come in. 

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5 hours ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Thanks Bill, interesting read. Good to know that Ioane hasn't much pedigree! :rofl2br:

I suspect that you may be right about the kicking, at least initially. I'm not sure how much NZ will want to be kicking to the likes of Williams though (he will obviously now stink the place out and drop every ball). This will be the ultimate test of the Lions rush defence, I think the players will be fit enough individually to keep the standards up for 80 minutes, but as a unit? We'll find out. A lot will come down to the bench, Lions have good impact there but I'm not sure about Warburton and Halfpenny as impact players. I suppose if the latter comes on and kicks the winning goal everyone will say Gatland is a genius.

What do you think of Smith over Perenara? I was looking forward to seeing the latter up against Murray who (in my unbiased opinion) is the best scrum half on the planet right now.

It's not a very conservative prediction, but I just can't see a scratch team staying with NZ for 80 minutes, no matter who is togging out for them. I hope I'm wrong and we get a much closer test/series than that.

I think Lions need to win this test to have any chance because, as you say, NZ have fresh guys to come in. 

I would say the main difference between the two scrum halfs are that Perenara is a much better runner/support player than Smith, and makes more breaks than Smith. Smith has the better/sharper pass though. Perenara tends to enjoy the latter stages of games when the play becomes 'broken'. His kicking tends to be better as well I would say. 

Smiths passing ability from rucks and scrums probably means he's a better starter, because of the pace the game will be played at in the first half, the AB's will want a very fast paced game, I think the Lions will look to slow it where possible.

 

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Not long now, looking forward to a pre match fry up and a bloody Mary (cuz they're Red.).

will give a cheer for my two mates who I watched the last time the Lions played in NZ who are now no longer with us..

Can we do it? Yes.

Will we do it? We'll find out...

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