Where are the doubters now?

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

Let's all celebrate narrowly missing relegation. 

Hoo-*******-ray. 

Still here. Still doubting. 

Sorry your day was so shit on Saturday, Fordy

[RumRed]

Just now, AppyDAZE said:

The thing ixs, i think they are well aware and play on it a bit and im not being sexist . people are people

Ended up doing archaeology at Uni so she did her job.

 

I now work in financial services, yawn.  

Wish I could be camping in a field with my trusty trowel and brushes digging stuff up whilst spending the evening drinking Rioja with a bunch of hippy women like the old days.

 

such is life.

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, RumRed said:

Ended up doing archaeology at Uni so she did her job.

 

I now work in financial services, yawn.  

Wish I could be camping in a field with my trusty trowel and brushes digging stuff up whilst spending the evening drinking Rioja with a bunch of hippy women like the old days.

 

such is life.

It's never too late to drop out, Rum. I'm seriously thinking about phoning in sick tomorrow (thing is , I do every Monday  think about it)

[Fordy62]

6 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Sorry your day was so shit on Saturday, Fordy

My Saturday was perfectly fine thank you. The never ending carousel of LJ is brilliant after we win a game is pretty tedious especially from the OP - he's as notorious a WUM as there is.

It cannot be doubted that we've wholly underachieved this season and Johnson must shoulder that blame. 

[RumRed]

Just now, AppyDAZE said:

It's never too late to drop out, Rum. I'm seriously thinking about phoning in sick tomorrow (thing is , I do every Monday  think about it)

I dropped out of most things apart from going through the motions a long time ago!  

I may join the local society down here (Brighton way) to dig, hang out with ageing hippies and listen to Led Zep.

I think you may have inspired me @AppyDAZE. Ta!

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

My Saturday was perfectly fine thank you. The never ending carousel of LJ is brilliant after we win a game is pretty tedious especially from the OP - he's as notorious a WUM as there is.

It cannot be doubted that we've wholly underachieved this season and Johnson must shoulder that blame. 

It's not about LJ is brilliant, I said be happy that we stayed up and look again at the situation next season,  do we even disagree then?

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, RumRed said:

I dropped out of most things apart from going through the motions a long time ago!  

I may join the local society down here (Brighton way) to dig, hang out with ageing hippies and listen to Led Zep.

I think you may have inspired me @AppyDAZE. Ta!

Zeppelin is one of my bands too ,  although i like pretty much most rock/ indie music

[Alan Dicks]

Johnson out

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Alan Dicks said:

Johnson out

DICKS out   :laugh:  at the risk of being arrested

[Fordy62]

Just now, AppyDAZE said:

It's not about LJ is brilliant, I said be happy that we stayed up and look again at the situation next season,  do we even disagree then?

Uhhhh, like I said in another thread, my personal choice would be to have someone else in charge at the start of next season. I think we've had too many disasters this time around for me to have any confidence in LJ. I fear that by having him in charge next season is likely to destabilise the 1000/1 dream at the back of my mind that sees us competing at the right end of the table.

But, I hope to be wrong. I hope that LJ proves me wrong. But I can't see that being terribly likely. 

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Fordy62 said:

Uhhhh, like I said in another thread, my personal choice would be to have someone else in charge at the start of next season. I think we've had too many disasters this time around for me to have any confidence in LJ. I fear that by having him in charge next season is likely to destabilise the 1000/1 dream at the back of my mind that sees us competing at the right end of the table.

But, I hope to be wrong. I hope that LJ proves me wrong. But I can't see that being terribly likely. 

No problem with that view, i just happen to think that he needs the start of next season. After all the players we have here now are the players the current regime has aquired. a new manager would want top change it again and I think that is more risky right now. Heey I'm not saying you are wrong.. who knows anyway

[AppyDAZE]

2 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Uhhhh, like I said in another thread, my personal choice would be to have someone else in charge at the start of next season. I think we've had too many disasters this time around for me to have any confidence in LJ. I fear that by having him in charge next season is likely to destabilise the 1000/1 dream at the back of my mind that sees us competing at the right end of the table.

But, I hope to be wrong. I hope that LJ proves me wrong. But I can't see that being terribly likely. 

PS you did celebrate a bit yesterday didnt you though?

[reddoh]

3 hours ago, EnclosureSurge said:

I'm still a doubter. 

When we lost 200 in a row or whatever it was, it was all Johnson's fault for some. By the same token, the turnaround can't all be down to him.

It's human nature to struggle to shake a bad feeling about someone's managerial ability - if he'd won 8 in a row (like D Wilson, however many that was) you wouldn't reasonably expect him to do the same again the following season (Wilson didn't, of course). Yet, with Johnson, I wouldn't be surprised if we lost a load of games in a row again next season, such is his inexperience and tinkering and over-complicating things. I hope we don't.

He can't be called 'experienced' next season. That surely takes 10 years, give or take, in management. I'd be willing to bet - despite his recent keeping the same team and it leading to wins - he'll tinker again next season, esp if we have as large a squad (25 players or so, is it?) And for sure he'll over-complicate things come August: he's got the whole summer to buy new analysis toys, drones, visit the SAS/Michellin Star restaurants etc.

This isn't personal, I have nothing against him as a bloke. 

I also doubt his ability to get this many points out of this squad minus Tammy. Whilst a lot of managers might struggle with that, he has shown an inordinate ability to make players worse (Bryan, Reid, Golbourne) and not get the best out of talent (Tomlin). I can't see that changing in a couple of months.

All in all, I see very little changing next season with him at the helm. I think we'll still lose a lot - unless we can somehow stop conceding so many - and struggle to win as many, unless we strike lucky with a new forward.

I didn't lay 100% of the blame at his door during the winter so am reluctant to heap all the praise on him now, but he has obviously done something right recently. Either mostly on his own, managerially, or in combination with McAllister or Holden. I'm happy to say well done to him for now, I wouldn't take back anything I criticised him for a few months back - that still stands as he has got us out of a mess of his own making - but I still doubt he'll be successful with us, long term. I can see him leaving in a year or 18 months, having failed to "kick on" (from 18th). I'm also not waiting for him to fail. For me, the deeper problem lies at Lansdown's door/the Bristol Sport nonsense.

This post is about where are the doubters. I'm/we're still here. I still doubt him long term but am happy to congratulate him on the part he has played in recent wins.

I Think we would be in a bloody mess without Tammy and Pack

[robin_unreliant]

I'm sticking around but still have no faith in LJ. His constant talk of not trusting players is bound to have a long-term effect. Magnusson and Tomlin have been dropped and branded effectively as players he doesn't trust. How must they feel about that? To my mind they are two of our best players but I can't see them busting a gut to play for Johnson - I certainly wouldn't in their shoes. I wouldn't be surprised if Magners left which is a real waste.

I just don't think he knows how to handle players and this will continue to hamper us next season. 

[RedRock]

I'm here too. 

LJ convinced the Board he was the right man at the right time. Simply, he wasn't. He has now admitted he made mistakes. In my view, major errors that could have cost us our Championship status. This season has been nothing short of disaster. 

Most high profile managers, in any line of business, would be gone after 12 months of failure to deliver on core objectives. While there are mitigating circumstances - I wonder if he was happy about losing Kodjia that late in the transfer window and not getting a decent replacement, was Tomlin another unwanted 'gift from above'? - he owes us big time.

No more excuses, he's going to get his 3rd transfer window, he's got 12 months and more experience in the Championship, next season is delivery time.

So LJ, get your transfer strategy correct, improve your man-management skills, throw your FA handbook away and follow the Brighton way of power, pace, precision.

 

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Moor2Sea said:

I'm here too. 

LJ convinced the Board he was the right man at the right time. Simply, he wasn't. He has now admitted he made mistakes. In my view, major errors that could have cost us our Championship status. This season has been nothing short of disaster. 

Most high profile managers, in any line of business, would be gone after 12 months of failure to deliver on core objectives. While there are mitigating circumstances - I wonder if he was happy about losing Kodjia that late in the transfer window and not getting a decent replacement, was Tomlin another unwanted 'gift from above'? - he owes us big time.

No more excuses, he's going to get his 3rd transfer window, he's got 12 months and more experience in the Championship, next season is delivery time.

So LJ, get your transfer strategy correct, improve your man-management skills, throw your FA handbook away and follow the Brighton way of power, pace, precision.

 

Yeah, it was clear to see yesterday that none of those players was playing for LJ   ffs

[RedRock]

Just now, AppyDAZE said:

Yeah, it was clear to see yesterday that none of those players was playing for LJ   ffs

Assuming from that comment you think publically slating players is a good man-management tactic?

Fair do's. Football's all about opinions. 

[AppyDAZE]

Just now, Moor2Sea said:

Assuming from that comment you think publically slating players is a good man-management tactic?

Fair do's. Football's all about opinions. 

Has jose had any success? only asking

[Tin Soldier]

LJ has a lot to be thankyou for, one is a guy called Tammy Abraham who saved his job, (along with SL). But fair play, he kept us up, so roll on next season. 

Credit where credit is due, he proved a lot wrong, including me. The TEAM played well 2nd half Saturday, and you have got to get behind the team sometimes, even if you disagree with some of the dynamics within the club.

Work in progress hopefully?

[View from the Dolman]

9 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Sad sad ****. Google searched my phone auto spell mistake. Blimey.

Nope, I just have an education. Mitosis is (or certainly was) covered at GCSE level.

[Mighty Squirrel Kingdom]

Still here.

If we're in no immediate danger of relegation after 38 games next season and LJ is still manager then I might change my mind. Our home record against teams in the bottom half of the Championship has been the only bright spot this season, but he's clearly still not got much of a clue about how nick points in away games at this level. We've blown six leads in away games this season: if we'd won half of those matches we wouldn't have been fretting about relegation for as long as we have.

The main issues next season:

* How to replace Tammy. He's been responsible for almost 40% of our goals this season and he won't be at AG in 2017/18. I'd not be surprised if we try to bring in another promising striker on loan for next season. We've not seen enough of Djuric for obvious reasons and Matty Taylor has bags of potential, but between them they've scored three goals in 21 appearances.

* With two games left we've got the fourth worst defence in the Championship. To be fair to LJ, this is an historical issue, although those blown leads in away games this season are fundamentally his responsibility as a manager. The only time we've had a positive goal difference in the Championship was the season we reached the playoff final and the last time we conceded 50 goals or less at this level was the season we were promoted to the old First Division and there were 42 matches per season back then rather than 46.

If we can cut down on the number of single goal away defeats and either Djuric or Taylor can score at least 15 goals, those will be steps in the right direction. But I'll be very surprised if the bookies don't have us in single figures for relegation in August.

We aren't out of the woods by any means.

[MarkRed!]

I am glad this horrible season is coming to an end and I am glad it looks like we have stayed up. I am glad for the club and the fans. We dont need League One again and should be building to be a strong championship club. I dont think I am quite yet ready to accept the "I told you" fans. Personally, I feel Johnson is a lucky lucky manager and at any other club he would have been sacked. I want him to succeed though so I am glad he has turned it around. His main problem though is that he has got any credits left that he might have stored for a rainy day. Thus, if he starts next season poorly the knives will be out and at times it was toxic. 

My thoughts would be though:

1. You have to measure the outcome of the season on where the club wanted to be. Thus, SL had said pushing for the Premier League. Johnson similarly, hence his Europa league gaffe... I don't think anyone was advocating a season based on survival based on the budget we have had. For me, the squad is not a bottom of the Championship one and we should have been aiming for 10th and above.  

2. Since the second International break we have been dire, now i went to all of the games between November and February (home and away, bar Fleetwood away) and the football was shocking. Johnson definitely lost the dressing room at some point and it was clear the players were not playing for him. His team selections were poor and players vanished only to re-appear for no apparent reason. Players were critiqued publicly and that never really works does it?

3. To LJ's credit he appears to have turned it around as our recent form has been very good since the Brentford and Preston debacles (again 2 shocking performances). We have also played some good football in parts and have looked better.

4. Events also raise the issue of Pembo as it cannot be any coincidence that form has dramatically improved since his departure. It suggests that there was conflict, which most of think was going on. 

5. I still dont rate Johnson as a manager - I think he is tactically not good enough and the team very often dont look like they have a plan. The 1st half against Barnsley was almost as bad as it has been.... His press conferences are also terrible and saying Patterson is a 25 million player is stupid... If that is the case why has he been AWOL for the majority of the season. I hope he learns from this season as it can surely only make him a better manager. 

6. In Johnson's defence he has been let down by some senior players, particularly O'Neill and Tomlin.  

7. Summer will be critical in terms of transfers. I would be showing the door to O'Neill, Tomlin, Little, Wilbraham (give him a coaching role). Matthews can XXXX XXX and Tammy and Giefer's loan will end. Thus, that should free up some pennies for some new blood. The hardest thing will be replacing the goals from Tammy but we should have the pennies to get some people in. 

Some food for thought, but I dont think anyone can crack open the champagne. It has been a poor season and we are lucky to have got through it. Credit to LJ for coming through it but he has got a big summer coming up.....

[RedRock]

9 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Has jose had any success? only asking

Understand your point. However, Jose has earned his stripes.

When LJ has a few Champions League, Premiership, FA Cup and foreign titles then maybe he can earn the respect of players and can dress them down in public. Winning something would be a step in the right direction. Winning two relegation fights, one self-imposed, ain't a great CV to date.

My fear is that we have a repeat of his dad. He can't man-manage the bigger names, who are necessary to push us to the levels we aspire. 

Anyhows, onwards and upwards. We've got him for a while so let's hope he and his self-selected young and inexperienced coaching team can take their 'L Plates' off soon.

[shelts]

Many unanswered questions on the manager and a fair few of the players. When we had our bad run he should've gone after the away defeat at Forest . Credit where it is due he's turned it around. I still have my doubts about next season but I'm pretty sure SL will give LJ a fair few quid to spend and well see a few out the door and and maybe some of our youth will come to the fore . We can only hope can't we?

[Super]

I'm just glad this season is almost done been a tiring season and on the whole a poor one. Sadly unless we see changes I can't see next season being any different.

[Taz]

Don't get me wrong, really pleased that we are (virtually) safe. 

However, I still have absolutely no faith in Johnson at all, and he'll have to do a hell of a lot to prove to me (and many others probably) that he's the right man for the job.

To go virtually all season without knowing your best 11, is quite frankly, totally inept. It's no coincidence that for the past few games we've named a pretty much unchanged starting 11, and the results and performances have picked up. 

Obviously if things are going wrong, you expect the manager to change personnel. Usually that's more like 1 or 2 players, and it's not been unusual to see at least 3 or 4 changes from one week to the next. 

Do I think that Lee Johnson will take OUR club up the table? No

Do I want Lee Johnson to take OUR club up the table? Yes, I would love it to happen and for him to prove myself and many others wrong. I just don't think it will happen.

[Kid in the Riot]

Nice to see so many sensible and realistic responses to this thread, especially given the twattish OP is completely undeserving of such well-measured replies.

LJ should be dismissed at the season's end but there is zero chance of this happening.

I suppose putting to one side the fact he just isn't a competent leader, the main issue I can see is that I can't think of a single player that our Head COACH has improved since he's been here. Instead I see pretty much universally players getting worse. In the last few weeks he's simply resorted to playing players who were here when SC was here and we know they are capable of being semi-decent at this level. In terms of his signings...well by and large the less said the better.

It'll be interesting to see what happens this summer. I foresee many players looking to move on. Even ones who came in last summer and in January must already be wondering what they walked into. The likes of O'Neill and Tomlin are already looking like expensive mistakes and neither will want to stay here and play under LJ. It's looking like another high turnover of players which is unbelievable really but then that's what happens when you have people in charge who don't really know what they're doing. I'm sure SL will be as lucid with his cash as ever, he might have to spend a bit more than usual to attract decent players here this summer.

[Septic Peg]

Still a LJ doubter and I'm still here.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. When LJ was announced, I groaned. He had no experience of the Championship and no success with previous teams. 

Oldham and Barnsley fans came on here and told us what to expect. They weren't wrong were they?

So I buckled down and gave LJ my support. Some good signings made over the summer - Tammy albeit on loan came after direct intervention from LJ, Brownhill, Patto, O'Dowda and Mags were positives. Then he made a few shockers - O'Neil (Poor Gaz wouldn't make the move so now has to commute up and down the M4 daily), Engvall (who the **** is Engvall?) and Matthews (thankfully he is on loan - just turned to dog muck and no one knows why).

New Year time and I started to get fed up. Either the Cardiff or Reading game and I was thinking, he's gonna have to go. I cant wick it when clubs go choppy changy with managers but I'd felt he'd run his course. SL stuck by him.

Then came the Burton game and magic, the ride evened out bar Brentford and PNE, which brings us to now.

 

I still don't think he is the right man. But he'll get his 3rd window. He'll have 5 to 10 games to show his new team. If we are in the relly zone come October, I'll be writing to Keith Dawe myself and begging him to pick another man and to dig his heels in if SL isn't in agreement.

12 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

I stick with the teacher thing. I'm sure we had one like this and all us boys would try to embarrass her/ chat her up in class  my mind isnt playing tricks I know this happened but Im not prepared to name my old school  in S. Bristol circa 1970s guesses are welcome

BS3 area? Luckwell, Ashton Gate, Ashton Vale, Southville, South St. Or Ashton Park, Bemmy Down if talking secondary school.

[Inactive user]

15 hours ago, Thatch35 said:

Missing the point mate. This season was a total diaster. Inept clueless manager, millions wasted on crap players, and just one player who kept city up who isn't even a city player. Next season could be a rotherham quite easily. Johnson out.

Agree with nearly all of that.  But the question is, where does the fault really lie?

[redfieldred]

On 22/04/2017 at 22:21, Sweeneys Penalties said:

big difference between wanting LJ to fail and believing he isn't up to the job I'm afraid. We survived 16/17 despite him, not because of him. I accept he'll be in charge at the start of next season, but I don't expect much from it. Could City do better? Oh yes

I think he can only improve as a manager given that he learns from the dreadful run in the middle of this season. 

What most 'outers' want is a poor start to the season. I think sacking him then would be easier , but wrong. I think he will be a top manager. The team has lost a lot from winning positions but that is fixable as he proved by staying up. Other failing teams such as 2013 never got in winning positions to lose - they just lost.