New LJ poll

[NickJ]

11 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Luckily it's not your choice. Or your money 

If your inference is that it is SL's money that finances the club, that is incorrect.

The majority of SL's money has been invested into an ASSET, ie the stadium, which he effectively owns and could sell.

The supporters have contributed a significantly higher amount in terms of income which is used to finance the club.

As such, we deserve better than a successful manager being not backed, then sacked, and replaced with somebody who had a far inferior record at the same level and tacitly accepts that the majority of his purchases are not good enough.

Johnson OUT, no question, and more to the point, SL should seriously question himself as to whether his continued support for a manager who has failed so badly relative to the resources provided, is in the best interests of the club and its supporters.

[NickJ]

21 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Any sensible and objective owner would look at what this season has been (very disappointing) look at what's going on behind the scenes (even worse) look at season ticket sales (not good) and say enough is enough and make a positive and proactive decision to find a better manager than LJ.

So obvious that the only surprising thing is people like us feel the need to make these points.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, cynic said:

So as it stands 25% (on here) want him gone then ?

Thought it would be so much more.

 

(currently 452 votes 112 sack him at end of season + two loopies).

 

It also suggests that despite their vehemence in constantly stating that the only course of action that the supporters would accept is the sacking of the Manager, that KITR and NickJ are in the minority. Personally I went for option 2, I don't believe he should be untouchable, but as he has stated himself in recent interviews that he and everyone have made mistakes, he should be given the opportunity to show that he and they are capable of learning from them. I would prefer that to happen here, rather than see him go to another club and put his learning into practice there.

 

[Super]

Interested to know who the 31 people are that voted for option 1!

[bpexile]

I went "3" hoping that LJ has got that shuffle the line-up mode out of his system but the pressure will be on from day 1 of next season especially if the summer recruiting fails.

[Port Said Red]

11 minutes ago, Super said:

Interested to know who the 31 people are that voted for option 1!

Even as a supporter of the manager, I find that almost as bizarre as the last option.

[NickJ]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

It also suggests that despite their vehemence in constantly stating that the only course of action that the supporters would accept is the sacking of the Manager, that KITR and NickJ are in the minority. Personally I went for option 2, I don't believe he should be untouchable, but as he has stated himself in recent interviews that he and everyone have made mistakes, he should be given the opportunity to show that he and they are capable of learning from them. I would prefer that to happen here, rather than see him go to another club and put his learning into practice there.

 

At the moment, you are right, we are in the minority.

But about 3-4 weeks ago (following Brentford and Preston) we were in the overwhelming majority.

Many people are fickle, but it will take a lot more than an unbeaten run of 4 games (all against lower third teams it should be said), where we are still not mathematically safe from relegation with just 2 games to go, to change my mind.

I have been unwavering in my belief from day one that Johnson will not be a successful manager for us, and don't see that changing any time soon.

From a position of massive opportunity following League One, two wasted seasons will become three next season. 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

It also suggests that despite their vehemence in constantly stating that the only course of action that the supporters would accept is the sacking of the Manager, that KITR and NickJ are in the minority. Personally I went for option 2, I don't believe he should be untouchable, but as he has stated himself in recent interviews that he and everyone have made mistakes, he should be given the opportunity to show that he and they are capable of learning from them. I would prefer that to happen here, rather than see him go to another club and put his learning into practice there.

Where did he admit to making mistakes?

A more interesting poll would perhaps be to ask who would be disappointed if LJ was sacked at the end of the season. Not many I suspect.

[Port Said Red]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Where did he admit to making mistakes?

A more interesting poll would perhaps be to ask who would be disappointed if LJ was sacked at the end of the season. Not many I suspect.

I heard his interview on radio Bristol on Saturday where he said that mistakes and that he had to be big enough to admit that, everyone and they would need to review all aspects of the season. 

Yes it's true, you can reword polls to get any answer you want to hear, I actually think this one is quite well worded, but they are all open to interpretation.

[ChippenhamRed]

2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Out of interest: why?

If you are very doubtful he's the 'long term solution' then why not get rid now (end of season), why wait and potentially prolong the agony/damage he can do to the club?

Makes little sense to me. Any sensible and objective owner would look at what this season has been (very disappointing) look at what's going on behind the scenes (even worse) look at season ticket sales (not good) and say enough is enough and make a positive and proactive decision to find a better manager than LJ.

Because it is doubtful, but not certain.  He has put together a run of 5 wins in 8 games under enormous pressure, and has an overall record at coach here which is nowhere near as bad as you portray.  And as per my last post, on balance I now think the benefits of continuity just about outweigh the benefit of change.  It is not certain that what we have seen from Johnson this season will be repeated, and neither is it certain that a "better manager" would actually do better here.  We've seen numerous appointments that had broad approval from this forum - SOD, McInnes, Coppell - not work out as well as expected, while a roundly derided appointment - Cotterill - worked out very well.  Appointing a new manager is not necessarily the magic pill.

[Spike]

3 hours ago, cynic said:

So as it stands 25% (on here) want him gone then ?

Thought it would be so much more.

 

(currently 452 votes 112 sack him at end of season + two loopies).

 

People, especially our fans, seem to have a very flippant nature. 

Going down... Sack him. 

Barely survived... Oh we survived, it's ok now. 

 

Honestly the one thing I can say about SL is at least he knows what he believes in. He's stuck by Johnson whilst many of our fans have flip flopped on whether he should stay or go. I think the right decision is for him to go and the only thing that's going to change my mind after seeing the mess this season is for us to finish in the top 10 next season with some consistency in our form. However, I think we're far more likely to be battling relegation again and this time around doing it with out a 20+ a season goalscorer. 

[ChippenhamRed]

 

People, especially our fans, seem to have a very flippant nature. 

Going down... Sack him. 

Barely survived... Oh we survived, it's ok now. 

 

Honestly the one thing I can say about SL is at least he knows what he believes in. He's stuck by Johnson whilst many of our fans have flip flopped on whether he should stay or go. I think the right decision is for him to go and the only thing that's going to change my mind after seeing the mess this season is for us to finish in the top 10 next season with some consistency in our form. However, I think we're far more likely to be battling relegation again and this time around doing it with out a 20+ a season goalscorer. 

"Barely survived" doesn't tell the whole story though.  Last 17 games: W6 D6 L5.  That's mid-table form and much closer to expectations this season, over a significant sample size of games.  It is not unreasonable that many people (myself included) who wanted him sacked in the midst of our terrible run would now reconsider in light of the recovery he has overseen.  Of course he deserved criticism for the poor run, but equally some of us are also willing to recognise that turning that around was worthy of some praise.  If we had sacked Johnson 17 games ago, we would now be saying "look what a good manager was able to do with that side".  His overall record here is nowhere near as terrible as some make out - a 40% win rate, all in the second tier.  If you can have a 40% win rate having also had a run of 1 win in 17, then you must have been doing something right the rest of the time.

[Kid in the Riot]

25 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

"Barely survived" doesn't tell the whole story though.  Last 17 games: W6 D6 L5.  That's mid-table form and much closer to expectations this season, over a significant sample size of games.  It is not unreasonable that many people (myself included) who wanted him sacked in the midst of our terrible run would now reconsider in light of the recovery he has overseen.  Of course he deserved criticism for the poor run, but equally some of us are also willing to recognise that turning that around was worthy of some praise.  If we had sacked Johnson 17 games ago, we would now be saying "look what a good manager was able to do with that side".  His overall record here is nowhere near as terrible as some make out - a 40% win rate, all in the second tier.  If you can have a 40% win rate having also had a run of 1 win in 17, then you must have been doing something right the rest of the time.

I think it's nearer 35%.

He's lost more games than he's won, I know that much. What he ultimately should be judged on is 51 pts from 44 games thus far this season (31% wins). Barely survived is pretty accurate given we were 2-1 down on Saturday and so were pretty damn close to still being in a hell of a scrap with 2 games to play. Hardly surviving comfortably!

[Nogbad the Bad]

24 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

It also suggests that despite their vehemence in constantly stating that the only course of action that the supporters would accept is the sacking of the Manager, that KITR and NickJ are in the minority. Personally I went for option 2, I don't believe he should be untouchable, but as he has stated himself in recent interviews that he and everyone have made mistakes, he should be given the opportunity to show that he and they are capable of learning from them. I would prefer that to happen here, rather than see him go to another club and put his learning into practice there.

 

Do you seriously believe if we keep LJ there is the slightest prospect that in the future a higher placed club - PL even - will attempt to prise him away?

From his previous record and what we've seen at AG that's absurd. His record losing runs both at Barnsley and City are millstones around his neck regarding future managerial progression and will remain a barrier to potential employers unless, and until, he achieves something palpable in the game. If he'd been sacked after the PNE game his stock would have been so low he may well have been unemployable at football League level. 

At best he'll be viewed as very inconsistent and highly unpredictable, a master of self promotion with illusions of coaching grandeur, and that's without taking into account any problems behind the scenes at AG this season that may have become common knowledge within the game.

The one predictable thing we know about about LJ is that any good form he presides over will inevitably be followed by a disastrous run, so the current comparatively outlandish spell of good form doesn't augur well for KO in August when no doubt he'll have yet more numerous new signings to bed in, or more likely, sideline for lengthy spells on an apparent whim.

Bristol City, at Championship level, will be the biggest, and highest placed, club LJ will ever manage imo. It remains incredible he ever got the job.

 

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, Nogbad the Bad said:

His record losing runs both at Barnsley and City are millstones around his neck regarding future managerial progression and will remain a barrier to potential employers unless, and until, he achieves something palpable in the game. If he'd been sacked after the PNE game his stock would have been so low he may well have been unemployable at football League level.

Very true and makes it all the more absurd that a number of our fans seems to have forgotten this already and now are seemingly prepared to back him to continue managing us next season. Incredible.

[Trueredsupporter]

8 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

 

, and that's without taking into account any problems behind the scenes at AG this season that may have become common knowledge within the game.

 

no wind up as I voted rid. but what are these?

Pemberton going led to better results and Tomlin?? Looks like a player that does not settle anywhere. more?.

[Jack Dawe]

3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

It also suggests that despite their vehemence in constantly stating that the only course of action that the supporters would accept is the sacking of the Manager, that KITR and NickJ are in the minority. Personally I went for option 2, I don't believe he should be untouchable, but as he has stated himself in recent interviews that he and everyone have made mistakes, he should be given the opportunity to show that he and they are capable of learning from them. I would prefer that to happen here, rather than see him go to another club and put his learning into practice there.

 

He should be "given the opportunity to show that he and they are capable of learning from" the mistakes made this season. We should? Do we owe him this? 

I think we should be recruiting for perhaps the most important position at the club from a wider circle than the owner's phone book or the people-he-is-very-close-to-within-the-game. If Lee gets run over by the number 75 next week, where the hell would SL turn then?

Maybe we should give LJ another go because the prospect of SL finding his next head coach fills one with about as much confidence as we have for next season. That, I can see.

Southampton should have given Nigel Adkins a bit longer - it was the decent thing to do - but they are a very different animal from Bristol City, sadly. 

 

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

50 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I think it's nearer 35%.

He's lost more games than he's won, I know that much. What he ultimately should be judged on is 51 pts from 44 games thus far this season (31% wins). Barely survived is pretty accurate given we were 2-1 down on Saturday and so were pretty damn close to still being in a hell of a scrap with 2 games to play. Hardly surviving comfortably!

You are incorrect....

As it stands it's 40.98% according to the manager starts website

 

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

You are incorrect....

As it stands it's 40.98% according to the manager starts website

"Manager starts website"? Sounds legit! Got a link please?

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

"Manager starts website"? Sounds legit! Got a link please?

Sorry predictive text, but happy reading...

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/lee-johnson/

[Guest]

19 hours ago, REDOXO said:

The bloke shouldn't be here. He has gone back to the drawing board so many times I it has grooves in it. 

The bloke spent bucket loads on players that hardly feature, turned good players into mush and constantly tinkered with line ups and formations to the point that we went on our historically worst run ever

finally he stumbles on a settled team including six of SCs team all of whom, except Flint, have been discarded at one time or other and has wasted the most talented striker since Andy Cole on a relegation battle. 

All this with millions sitting on the bench he spent, not to mention Engval. 

SL will back him but he has lost me and many others. 

There has been so many last straws I have lost count but now complaining about the size of HIS squad takes the biscuit. Particularly as he has his third window coming up. 

Tombola signings and Tombola selections. Luckily he has a billionaire buddy for him and us!!

agree

[Kid in the Riot]

26 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Sorry predictive text, but happy reading...

http://www.managerstats.co.uk/managers/lee-johnson/

Not happy reading I'm afraid as that's wrong. LJ has only won 22 league games (14 this season and 8 last) and has managed 67 not 61 games. D'oh.

His win % is closer to 35% than 40% trust me

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Not happy reading I'm afraid as that's wrong. LJ has only won 22 league games (14 this season and 8 last) and has managed 67 not 61 games. D'oh.

His win % is closer to 35% than 40% trust me

He hasn't managed 67 league games.... 

Count back Kid

[Kid in the Riot]

Just now, Emperor Palpatine said:

He hasn't managed 67 league games....

I didn't say he had!

22 league wins divided by the number of league games he's managed = ??

[MichaelRobartes]

Looking at our results since Ipswich at home last season, I make it 21 wins out of 60 in the league, exactly 35%. I guess the Manager Stats website have counted the Charlton game where LJ was in the stand and included our four cup wins this season without adding the seven cup matches we've played under LJ to the total.

In all competitions I make it 25 wins from 68 matches at 36.8%.

[Spike]

2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

"Barely survived" doesn't tell the whole story though.  Last 17 games: W6 D6 L5.  That's mid-table form and much closer to expectations this season, over a significant sample size of games.  It is not unreasonable that many people (myself included) who wanted him sacked in the midst of our terrible run would now reconsider in light of the recovery he has overseen.  Of course he deserved criticism for the poor run, but equally some of us are also willing to recognise that turning that around was worthy of some praise.  If we had sacked Johnson 17 games ago, we would now be saying "look what a good manager was able to do with that side".  His overall record here is nowhere near as terrible as some make out - a 40% win rate, all in the second tier.  If you can have a 40% win rate having also had a run of 1 win in 17, then you must have been doing something right the rest of the time.

 

You can look at it as "he deserves praise" for getting us out of the s*** but bottom line it's him who got us in it. We finished 6th in 3 consecutive months at the beginning of the season, then we dropped to a lower position consecutively until this month! Had he come in after the summer so not bought any players of his own into the club I could say "well, yeah, he needed to change the team set up" but he didn't. He bought his players, he set up his tactics and when they fell apart he made mistake after mistake after mistake, constantly tinkering, unable to decide on how he wanted the team to play. He was the reason we dropped from battling for a play off spot to looking dead cert to go down and his only saving grace is how monumentally s*** some other teams have been and this month turn in form. 

Also, his win rate may be 40% but a large boost of that was done without his set up or chosen staff, this season in the league his win rate is not 40%, it's 31%, his loss rate is 48%. Prior to this month it was win ratio of 28% and loss ratio of 51%. It's a big difference when you look at the relative stats.

With regards to "1 win in 17 with a 40% win rate", well as I said, that's a skewed view at the stats, he won 6 of his 15 games last season, a win ratio of 37.5%, they were all league games and he had not brought in any of his own players at that point. Since bringing in his players his win rate has dropped to 31% proving that he's actually doing worse with his own players.

Simply put Fulham are the lowest team currently in a playoff spot and their win ratio is 48%, Newcastle is the lowest in an automatic promotion spot and theirs is 60% which shows how bad LJ's 31% actually is if we're looking for promotion.

We can sit and debate stats all day long but as much as some people would like to think he's made a full recovery for us the truth is he has not progressed, in fact he'd done the opposite. He has a lower league win ratio this season than he did the last, he's set a club record for straight losses, he's made terrible decisions throughout the season and one good month doesn't change a poor season, it just gives us the chance to start again from the same point in our next.

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

4 minutes ago, MichaelRobartes said:

Looking at our results since Ipswich at home last season, I make it 21 wins out of 60 in the league, exactly 35%. I guess the Manager Stats website have counted the Charlton game where LJ was in the stand and included our four cup wins this season without adding the seven cup matches we've played under LJ to the total.

In all competitions I make it 25 wins from 68 matches at 36.8%.

Actually looking back it's 26 wins from 67 in all competitions which is 39%

Closer to 40% mind

[Mtimmy11]

I've had many conversations around the ground (and in pubs)in the last couple of months and I've yet to meet anybody who thinks he's a positive for our club ,most just don't care because they know there's nothing can be done without the landsdowns say so

[MichaelRobartes]

 

1 minute ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Actually looking back it's 26 wins from 67 in all competitions which is 39%

Closer to 40% mind

I have certainly added an extra game somehow but I'm not sure where the 26th win is unless you're counting Charlton where he was watching from the stand.

I make it 16 league matches in 2015/16 with 7 wins (Ipswich, MKD, Forest, Fulham, Bolton, Wednesday and Huddersfield).

We've obviously played 44 league matches this season with 14 wins which totals 21 from 60 in the league since LJ took over 

We didn't play any cup matches under LJ last season so this season's three FA Cup matches which included one win in the replay at Fleetwood and four League Cup matches which included three wins.

Add those into the sum and I get 25 wins from 67 matches which is 37.3%.

[Kid in the Riot]

24 minutes ago, Emperor Palpatine said:

Actually looking back it's 26 wins from 67 in all competitions which is 39%

Closer to 40% mind

I think we were looking at LJ's league record which @MichaelRobartes has kindly confirmed is 35%. if you want to throw in a few wins against L1/L2 teams in cup competitions to boost it up a bit then that's up to you buddy.