This may be an unpopular view but...

[DolmanDave]

11 minutes ago, Dynamite Red said:

Some have very short memories we have slightly underperformed but been woeful in a lot of games. Forgetting the results, for me worse was the constant changing of playing styles, regressive tactics, constant tinkering of tactics and personnel, handling of players, scatter gun transfer policy with a record budget spent.

 

I was just about to respond with the same lines, took the words right out of my mouth.

 

who knows where we would be placed in the league if we kept a consistent team as have done recently. 

 

constant tinkering and majority of substitutions were baffling.

[Bar BS3]

23 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Wake up, wake up. City just survived this season - says it all. LJ out. Thought it was Europe  in 4 years?

I thought I'd slept well last night, but I didn't realise I'd woken up 4 years later, only to find we aren't in Europe yet. 

What? Oh I didn't and we've still got 4 years left to try and achieve that..?!

Not to mention that nobody guaranteed that, obviously. I see nothing wrong with ambitious goals/targets. Of course, they probably won't be achieved, but it's better to reach for the stars and fall short, than be a nagative ***** who can't appreciate where the club is TRYING to get to and get behind it and support them. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This maybe an unpopular view that goes against the grain but...this season, has it been that bad really?

We had a very bad patch- thinking especially the 11 losses in 12 which included the 8 losses on the spin and yes that made history for all the wrong reasons but- provided we win Sunday and perhaps rise a place 2 in the final standings. Has this season been so bad?

Positives:

• Saturday- how The Game in the Times reckoned Birmingham's win over Huddersfield who rested 10 was performance of weekend in Championship I do not know, ours clearly was. Regardless, to win at Brighton on their Championship party was fantastic.
• 3-1 v Villa
• 4-0 at Fulham
• 4-0 v Huddersfield
• Newcastle away
• A decent cup run while we are at this level the first time in some while- unlike past Cup runs it was a good Cup run in the 2nd tier which we have not done much of in past 2nd tier seasons.
• The fact we brought in quite a few younger players- a season of churn isn't necessarily easy to manage. Seen some of them begin to flourish or show signs of strong promise too- Brownhill for one. Paterson has started to flourish as well at this latter stage of the season.
• Average attendances highest in a generation- indeed I think Newcastle at home was the highest since the top flight?

Honourable mentions:

• Leeds at home
• Derby away
• Beating Hollowhead!
• Beating Fulham away in the Cup- given their home record, winning there twice in 2 games is decent.
• Though it is already sort of covered in some of the above, the 2nd half comebacks- rallies, especially in the last half hours were quite thrilling in the first third of the season IMO

I know there were many lows, not least the 11 losses in 12, which encompassed the 8 game losing streak, the whole LJ erratic selection, late goals and the Fulham and Burton home games in particular- we were put through the mill to say the least! Not saying is a stellar season by any means but looking back at it we've had quite a few memorable moments despite everything and I firmly believe this squad has its better days ahead of them.

Derby away deserves an 'honourable mention' ?! That was a real low point....

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

57 minutes ago, Akira said:

Genuinely gobsmacked at what I've just read.

So we're now safe in the league for another season... And suddenly because of that, it's been a good season? 

The performances on and off the field have been embarrassing. The disconnect most fans have felt this season has been like no other. Keeping a unproven guy in charge, risking the status of OUR club, because he's a mate of the owner, is beyond a joke. 

We've blown a real good opportunity to capitalise on having Tammy here, the likes we may not see again down here for a long time. 

This season has been a total disaster and I firmly lay the blame at LJ and SL's door. The board are weak and clearly have no say. 

And some think we've have a decent season, beggars belief, it really is. 

If a season which has started and ended well can be described as 'a total disaster', what would relegation have been?  I'm struggling to think of what several shades worse than a total disaster would be!

Sorry, for me (with over 50 years of watching City) a disappointing season, but far from disastrous.  I've enjoyed many seasons far less.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

10 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Derby away deserves an 'honourable mention' ?! That was a real low point....

Quite agree,  Taking a 3-0 lead?  Shocking!

[Tully Bascomb]

57 minutes ago, Thatch35 said:

Shocking season, shocking decisions, shocking waste of money on some signings, shocking tactics, shocking team changes, shocking treatment of players, shocking blame on players, shocking disappointment from early positives, shocking management interviews, shocked to be in a relegation fight, shocked city only just survived, shocked at beating brighton (:laugh:), all round shocking period, shocked City have worse ever manager still in charge, shocked LJ is a job, just shocking.

LJ out.

I don't agree with most of the things you say but you do make me laugh.

[Bar BS3]

Just now, Bullbag said:

Can try and dress this season up as much as you want but the fact of the matter is it has been a shambles.

#Johnson out

Brilliant! 

Lets sack a manager who's just taken 21 points from the last 11 games. 

#fuckinggenius

[steviestevieneville]

4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Quite agree,  Taking a 3-0 lead?  Shocking!

Wow your'e not pragmatic just blinkered. I think he's referring to losing a 3 goal lead

[Bar BS3]

Just now, Bullbag said:

Let back a clueless 'manager' who took us through the worst run in 123 years of history.

Fickle.

#fuckinggenius back to you with brass knobs on. 

And turned it around to come out the end of the season in excellent form. 

Yes, lets back him and hope that the bad patch is now a horrible memory and that the form last season, the start of this season and the end of this season are the standard, rather than the torrid time during that, relatively short, part of his tenure experienced. 

[Nibor]

If you'd asked me at the start of the season whether finishing 15th-17th was ok I'd have said no given all the money spent, we should be looking for top half.  It would be passable if we could see real signs of improvement on the pitch and a positive pattern of play emerging, the signings integrating and the future looking up.  

I don't think we can say we've seen that.  We've had a constantly changing formation and selection, we've totally failed to integrate some expensive players (Tomlin, Hegeler, Matthews, Engvall) and we've only just pulled out of a relegation nose dive at the last minute.  The last few games have been better but we've no way of knowing if LJ actually learned any lessons or whether he just happened on something that worked for a bit.  That's the key question and we won't really know the answer until we're substantially into next season.  The concern is that if the team that played the last few games is our best XI we're looking at yet another expensive clear out (and having to find a Tammy replacement).  

For next season we need a keeper, two full backs and a top class striker irrespective of what shape we're going to play, players that we aren't going to lose faith with, panic and permanently bench part way through.  Then we need a consistent selection and shape so the players can settle in and know what to do.  On what we saw this season can LJ make that happen?  Probably not, but I genuinely hope I'm wrong.

[NiceRed]

Well I've been supporting City for a similar amount of time to the original poster, so this season has probably been slightly above average, League position-wise. Obviously there will be highs and lows in such a season - probably more polarised than usual this time. 

Off the field, average attendances are nearly 3 times larger than when I first started coming (95/96). I don't feel any closer or less close to the club owners than over most of the previous 20 years. 

[Bar BS3]

3 minutes ago, Nibor said:

If you'd asked me at the start of the season whether finishing 15th-17th was ok I'd have said no given all the money spent, we should be looking for top half.  It would be passable if we could see real signs of improvement on the pitch and a positive pattern of play emerging, the signings integrating and the future looking up.  

I don't think we can say we've seen that.  We've had a constantly changing formation and selection, we've totally failed to integrate some expensive players (Tomlin, Hegeler, Matthews, Engvall) and we've only just pulled out of a relegation nose dive at the last minute.  The last few games have been better but we've no way of knowing if LJ actually learned any lessons or whether he just happened on something that worked for a bit.  That's the key question and we won't really know the answer until we're substantially into next season.  The concern is that if the team that played the last few games is our best XI we're looking at yet another expensive clear out (and having to find a Tammy replacement).  

For next season we need a keeper, two full backs and a top class striker irrespective of what shape we're going to play, players that we aren't going to lose faith with, panic and permanently bench part way through.  Then we need a consistent selection and shape so the players can settle in and know what to do.  On what we saw this season can LJ make that happen?  Probably not, but I genuinely hope I'm wrong.

We still had Kodjia, arguably the best striker in the Championship, at the start of the season though. Surely if that's what you are gaging things on, then that opinion may have been reviewed after his departure..? 

[lenred]

27 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Quite agree,  Taking a 3-0 lead?  Shocking!

And then losing it. But yet the result was classed as a great result by some on here. Subsequently Derby went on a losing run that would see them sack their manager. So yeah losing a 3-0 lead was completely  unacceptable.  As with this thread it's all about context. 

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, Tammys Scan said:

Awful season, say no more.

Can you qualify that statement in the same articulate way that OP did?

[Bar BS3]

Just now, lenred said:

And then losing it. But yet the result was classed as a great result by some on here. Subsequently Derby went on a losing run that would see them sack their manager. So yeah losing a 3-0 lead was completely  unacceptable.  As with this thread it's all about context. 

An away draw at Derby is never "completely unacceptable", however frustrating the scenario which leads to it. 

If Matty Taylor hadn't produced arguably the miss of the season, then we'd have won that game (probably) Fine lines & small margins all seemed to go against us mid season. 

[Red white and red]

I can see this thread going the distance. Many many pages of back and forward between fans with differing opinions. My 2 pence, it's not been an absolute disaster as we've not finished bottom of the league with a -58 goal difference. From my recollection we were only in the relegation zone for one weekend? We have seen in recent weeks that with a settled side we can compete with established teams at this level. Players like josh brownhill have had a run in the team and improved significantly, bailey wright for me was a fantastic signing, he's slotted straight in and formed a decent partnership with flinty! 

Having said that, I'm not blinkered. The majority of the season has been painful to watch. A manager with very little tactical awareness, a manager who didn't know his best team after about 40 games, a manager who slagged off his own players in interviews rather than doing the whole 'duty of care' thing and not mentioning names, rumours of several bust-ups with players on the training ground and the 'matthews' incident in the middle of a game, SL basically stating the club is his toy and he will do want he wants with it and surely the main point is without Tammy we would be absolutely ******! If he hadn't had an absolute blinder, we would have been gone a long time ago.

Our whole season has hinged on the shoulders of a player who is in his first season of professional football. If we do anything next season that has to change.

Onwards and upwards my chums!

[One Team In Keynsham]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This maybe an unpopular view that goes against the grain but...this season, has it been that bad really?

We had a very bad patch- thinking especially the 11 losses in 12 which included the 8 losses on the spin and yes that made history for all the wrong reasons but- provided we win Sunday and perhaps rise a place 2 in the final standings. Has this season been so bad?

Positives:

• Saturday- how The Game in the Times reckoned Birmingham's win over Huddersfield who rested 10 was performance of weekend in Championship I do not know, ours clearly was. Regardless, to win at Brighton on their Championship party was fantastic.
• 3-1 v Villa
• 4-0 at Fulham
• 4-0 v Huddersfield
• Newcastle away
• A decent cup run while we are at this level the first time in some while- unlike past Cup runs it was a good Cup run in the 2nd tier which we have not done much of in past 2nd tier seasons.
• The fact we brought in quite a few younger players- a season of churn isn't necessarily easy to manage. Seen some of them begin to flourish or show signs of strong promise too- Brownhill for one. Paterson has started to flourish as well at this latter stage of the season.
• Average attendances highest in a generation- indeed I think Newcastle at home was the highest since the top flight?

Honourable mentions:

• Leeds at home
• Derby away
• Beating Hollowhead!
• Beating Fulham away in the Cup- given their home record, winning there twice in 2 games is decent.
• Though it is already sort of covered in some of the above, the 2nd half comebacks- rallies, especially in the last half hours were quite thrilling in the first third of the season IMO

I know there were many lows, not least the 11 losses in 12, which encompassed the 8 game losing streak, the whole LJ erratic selection, late goals and the Fulham and Burton home games in particular- we were put through the mill to say the least! Not saying is a stellar season by any means but looking back at it we've had quite a few memorable moments despite everything and I firmly believe this squad has its better days ahead of them.

I'll have a hit of whatever you're smoking.

[Robbored]

Like others have said,  if I'd been offered a mid table finish at the start of the seaso, I'd have taken it.

Its been a roller coaster for sure and the depressing run of defeats was pretty grim for us all but......LJ has turned it around and City are currently on a decent run culminating in the win at the Amex. Another victory on Sunday will be the icing on the seasons cake.

I posted on another thread - alls well that ends well.

[lenred]

3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

An away draw at Derby is never "completely unacceptable", however frustrating the scenario which leads to it. 

If Matty Taylor hadn't produced arguably the miss of the season, then we'd have won that game (probably) Fine lines & small margins all seemed to go against us mid season. 

Ifs and buts. Most people accept that things even themselves out over a season.

 I would have been very happy with a draw before the game. But to lose a 3-0 lead is unacceptable. I defy you to find me any manager who would say otherwise, whatever the circumstances. . Like I say, context. We'll agree to disagree as this thread is about the season not one result. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 minutes ago, lenred said:

And then losing it. But yet the result was classed as a great result by some on here. Subsequently Derby went on a losing run that would see them sack their manager. So yeah losing a 3-0 lead was completely  unacceptable.  As with this thread it's all about context. 

No, losing a match you expect to win might be completely unacceptable.  Drawing a match which you might have expected to lose after taking a 3-0 lead is just disappointing.  Ok, it's only semantics, but it would be good if people got things in perspective.

[lenred]

Just now, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

No, losing a match you expect to win might be completely unacceptable.  Drawing a match which you might have expected to lose after taking a 3-0 lead is just disappointing.  Ok, it's only semantics, but it would be good if people got things in perspective.

I've got plenty of perspective thanks. If you think chucking away a 3 goal lead and then bemoaning a missed chance to win 3-4 is acceptable then that's your prerogative but please do not question my 'perspective' as I happen to disagree with you. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Derby away deserves an 'honourable mention' ?! That was a real low point....

Strange isn't it how differently people see things. For me, if that moved anywhere from "honourable mention" it would be into 'highlights'.

Yes I know we threw away a 3 goal lead, but it was a game we went into with no-one giving us a chance, and came out of believeing that we could not only get results but could play too.

First half: never mind best attendance in a generation, that was up there with the best football I've seen City play in a generation. It wasn't down to Derby being bad, we were brilliant.

Second half: I still maintain that we got our tactics spot on for most of that half. We were bound to find Derby do something different (3 subs at ht I think) but we never sat back too deep, always looked to catch them on the break. When they pulled one back we continued in the same vein and then.....probably the worst miss in a generation! Had Matt Taylor put away that tap into an open goal from 6 inches we'd have been back to 4-1 and we'd have won easily. Yes, I know we concede another (great) goal and a soft pen and that's why it's probably not up there with the best of the highlights, but it certainly wasn't a low point for me!

[Nibor]

7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

We still had Kodjia, arguably the best striker in the Championship, at the start of the season though. Surely if that's what you are gaging things on, then that opinion may have been reviewed after his departure..? 

And Tammy was a complete unknown which balances that out as he turned out to be even better.

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, Nibor said:

And Tammy was a complete unknown which balances that out as he turned out to be even better.

We had Tammy and Kodjia at the start of the season. 

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, lenred said:

I've got plenty of perspective thanks. If you think chucking away a 3 goal lead and then bemoaning a missed chance to win 3-4 is acceptable then that's your prerogative but please do not question my 'perspective' as I happen to disagree with you. 

It wouldn't have been 3-4. Purely speculation, I know that none of us will ever know what would have happened if...... (except when Lee Miller missed that header in the last minute at Swindon!) but you do get a sense of the ebb and flow of a game. We'd held them, despite their renewed efforts, for 20 minutes. They got one back and that really gee-ed up both their players and the crowd. Suddenly they saw a glimmer of hope. And that's when Taylor missed that chance. I promise you that if we'd pulled it back to 4-1 then, they would have been so deflated and all that belief would have gone. I genuinely think we'd have won easily.

[Mr Popodopolous]

21 minutes ago, One Team In Keynsham said:

I'll have a hit of whatever you're smoking.

Honest question, what were your expectations back in the summer?

Mine were not terribly high, hopeful of better than last season but not terribly high. I was thinking midtable or maybe lower midtable. With hopefully some memorable games thrown in. The brilliant start obviously helped push expectations right up and who can blame people- I know I got quite excited when after a third of the season we stood in and around the top 6, all the thrilling comebacks and things looking really good.

[lenred]

7 minutes ago, italian dave said:

It wouldn't have been 3-4. Purely speculation, I know that none of us will ever know what would have happened if...... (except when Lee Miller missed that header in th least minute at Swindon!) but you do get a sense of the ebb and flow of a game. We'd held them, despite their renewed efforts, for 20 minutes. They got one back and that really gee-ed up both their players and the crowd. Suddenly they saw a glimmer of hope. And that's when Taylor missed that chance. I promise you that if we'd pulled it back to 4-1 then, they would have been so deflated and all that belief would have gone. I genuinely think we'd have won easily.

Fair play ID, I get that. But again as you say it's ifs and buts.  And  it evens itself out over the course of a season most would agree and accept. Luckily the draw has helped us stay up in the end rather than cost us and we can look forward now. Let's see what SL has to say now............

[Nibor]

Just now, Bar BS3 said:

We had Tammy and Kodjia at the start of the season. 

You seem to be suggesting that we should have lowered our expectations once Kodjia was sold because we didn't know that would happen at the start of the season, but my response is that our expectations at the start of the season were also based on not knowing if Tammy was any good at all and he proved a better player than Kodjia so learning those two things effectively cancel each other out.  You can't have it both ways.

[ChippenhamRed]

Why do so many posters insist on taking such a polar and extreme view?  Overall it's a disappointing season, we have underachieved, we should have done better - but 17th place (currently) is not "abysmal", it's not a "disaster", and a manager who has won more games than he has lost in charge of this club and just overseen an extended period of top 10 form might not necessarily be "clueless".

Just don't understand why so many are not able to make a more measured assessment of the season and acknowledge a few positives alongside the negatives.

[One Team In Keynsham]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Honest question, what were your expectations back in the summer?

Mine were not terribly high, hopeful of better than last season but not terribly high. I was thinking midtable or maybe lower midtable. With hopefully some memorable games thrown in.

I don't ever have expectations of doing well: decades of watching us play have sapped almost sense of optimism. And as a minimum in Division 2 I would take top of the bottom 4, and then anything else is a bonus.

I don't think this is the worst season I have lived through and I certainly don't think LJ is the worst manager I recall, but there is no way of dressing up the winless run as anything but a sh1tshow. In addition, our bedwetting game management tactics during that run suggested that players and management were clueless as to what they should be doing. Your honourable mention of Derby away is an example: 3 up in the first half and (IIRC) forced them to use all their subs in the 1st half. To piss that away was unacceptable. Possibly team talks by the opposing manager thereafter involved him sticking his head around the dressing room door and simply saying "lads, it's City".

I wanted LJ gone earlier this year, but I give him the benefit of the doubt in pulling together a run when it mattered at the end of the season. The concern is that a large part of our survival hinged on goals from a teenage loanee: replacing him is just one of the major jobs LJ has between now and August. 2-3 months into 2017/18 will be the test of whether he can hack it.