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28 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Frankie has looked far more assured recently , but I think if Flint was to move on and we don't replace him with a similar aerially dominant centre half we would urgently need to look for a commanding keeper

Flint deals with a lot of balls that could have us in trouble with Frankies aerial limitations

It may be Flints immediate future could change the whole thinking, and certainly would for me

Just a thought

Funnily enough I put that about Flint moving in my original post and deleted it. Mags and Wright with FF could give us real problems at set pieces.

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27 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Spot on.  However, I think any Prem manager who saw the way Adams turned Flint yesterday would be having real doubts about him.  Richard Latham in the Sunday Independent yesterday clearly believes that his four-year contract ought to keep him at Ashton Gate.  Having said that, much as I like Frankie, I do agree that he doesn't give us what we need in terms of a commanding presence and I would certainly prioritise a new keeper.

Straying from the topic for a moment, what the hell was that one-handed punch from Giefer about yesterday? 

 

11 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

It was about stopping the ball from going into his goal

I think DP's .... that doesn't look good.. I get Dolmans point, it looked very uncomfortable. The usual 2 palms over the bar looks secure and in command , a single fisted punch didn't.

As for Flint, any club would have watched him over a period and would know he's not quick, they wouldn't be signing him for that but his other qualities. That said I hope it put a few off :fingerscrossed:

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3 hours ago, Rascal said:

You need to be introducing some of your youngsters into the first team, giving them a prolonged run from the start of the season, even if the results don't come at first, you don't need to be recruiting lots of players 5/6 should be enough, you've got what you need really, they just need plenty of coaching, as a club you need to be identifying a style of football you want to implement, with a settled formation and game plan. If your players don't know from one game to the next what they are going to be asked to do then you'll struggle again next season, you need to get the foundations right on which your trying to build, from what I've seen you've got the core of a decent side, you just need a clear plan and organisation from top to bottom, by now Johnson should know what he's wanting to do, but I don't think he does, how can you go out and recruit the players you need if you don't know what you need, buying two decent wingers, then playing 4-1-2-1-2 is silliness, same as buying two decent strikers then playing 4-5-1 without a clear idea on how you want to play you'll never get a balanced squad and without that your making it harder for yourself. Your board and head coach need to sit down together decide on a main formation you'll mostly be playing then go get the players to suit that, Instead of a headless chicken approach. 

With a "settled formation and game plan" your own players know what they are doing, but so do the opposition (as we saw yesterday. And v you lot, first half). By being more "fluid," the opposition will not always know what you are doing, but the risk then is, neither will your own players (at times/much of the time). 

I think Johnson worries about being predictable and gnarled old dogs of war like Warnock, McCarthy and others easily working out a way to snuff us out. This could be his inexperience showing.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, SARJ said:

Some well thought out suggestions & comments on this thread. A shame Johnson won't be doing any of these and we'll be playing ever changing formations and teams on a weekly basis to no avail.

That's the spirit Mystic Meg!

 

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32 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

I think DP's .... that doesn't look good.. I get Dolmans point, it looked very uncomfortable. The usual 2 palms over the bar looks secure and in command , a single fisted punch didn't.

As for Flint, any club would have watched him over a period and would know he's not quick, they wouldn't be signing him for that but his other qualities. That said I hope it put a few off :fingerscrossed:

Commenting on the reasons for Signing Aiden Flint from Bristol City, Manager Pulis said " his tatoos will fit in well with those of the rest of our back 4"

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The loanees will surely be off (though we can dream of a Tammy return it surely won't happen).

So, moving forward I would suggest: A right back, either to cover for or to replace Little with Little being kept as cover, competition. One, if not two new strikers- to replace Tammy and indeed Wilbs is knocking on now, he surely can't really continue can he? Maybe a left back to upgrade on Golbourne and maybe a keeper to give Fielding proper competition. 

Should need no more than 5 signings IMO. As for targets? Well it will be a tough League again- Villa will improve, Cardiff if they keep Warnock should improve, Birmingham could improve but jury out, wouldn't think any of the sides coming up will be worse than Rotherham, Norwich should improve- Newcastle and Brighton going up was a boost, I rate them as better than Sunderland and surely Boro when both sides compared.

Midtable maybe? 11th-14th area? Season was more disappointing in hindsight than I suggested in my original thread a few days ago- I factored into that thread us beating Birmingham and maybe moving up a place or 2 which didn't happen. Playoffs though is a bit of a pipe dream, when you consider Fulham got 80 points in 6th place that is pretty nuts in all honesty!

 

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59 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

With a "settled formation and game plan" your own players know what they are doing, but so do the opposition (as we saw yesterday. And v you lot, first half). By being more "fluid," the opposition will not always know what you are doing, but the risk then is, neither will your own players (at times/much of the time). 

I think Johnson worries about being predictable and gnarled old dogs of war like Warnock, McCarthy and others easily working out a way to snuff us out. This could be his inexperience showing.

 

 

Most successful teams are successful because they have a settled, well organised team, playing a system/systems with tactics and a game plan the whole squad understands and are capable of playing. You can also be unpredictable while doing so as long as your settled players are comfortable playing in slightly different positions/systems, for example if you're going to play 5 at the back away from home and 4 at the back at home, you need to be buying full backs that are capable of playing in both formations, so you don't have to change personal to change systems therefore keeping a settled team, likewise when buying central midfielders if you're planing on playing 442 one week against one team then 451 the week after against another, you need players who can play in a 2 and a 3 so you're changes to your starting line up are minimal, so you can keep the squad settled and organised. 

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On 08/05/2017 at 07:47, Robbored said:

Jeez........:facepalm:

Im guessing that you don't read that many threads on here SR. 

Its been explained several times on here what SLs long term plan is and what role LJ plays in said plan.

Dear oh dear............:disapointed2se:

Quite right RR - I rarely read the forum or post any more - well spotted! :thumbsup: 

I was merely giving my 'end-of-season' opinion (in a thread called 'Next Season') of what I believe needs to happen for the club to continue in the Championship and make progress towards the 'promised land'. :cool:

Just my opinion... :yes: don't get yourself wound up about it... as a former STH, I felt I was entitled to voice an opinion once a season.  Still follow City, always will, but never attend these days - I have much more important things in my life these days... ta-ra... be happy... ;)

 

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On 08/05/2017 at 12:50, RUSSEL85 said:

If we can finish 12th-14th, a boring season would be idea for me. We do need to sign a quality striker to replace Tammy, failure to do so will see another struggle I wager.

you missed off the l at the end.

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On 07/05/2017 at 20:50, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don't think so.  He's a clever bloke and he will have learned a lot from this season.  My major worry about him is whether he can make the right signings, because I think some of his acquisitions this season (Hegeler, Geiger) have not been good enough.  However, with the right squad I think we can do well.

What evidence suggests he 'is a clever bloke'.

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Think we will progress and be in midtable. This season was interesting, we, Lee learnt a lot.  Tammy is gone, and his goals have to be made by other players. The defence is prio 1. LJ is the manager but he is not alone to have the Club working. Think now that we have a structure and know what we are doing. Before last season it was more hey ho. To optimistic, me including. If we can be a proper relyable team in this difficault leauge I think that will be a good progress. So, midtable will be fine. Once again our defence must be better If we should progress.

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While 25 goals will be difficult to replace, I'd be stupid to suggest otherwise, the fact that we have had 2 seasons where novices in this League have managed 20+ goals each season. That suggests we are doing something right at the creative end.
You only have to look back to some of the comments about Kodjia from last year, even Tammy went through a spell this year where he looked slightly off, it was a learning curve for both. 
I'm not saying anyone could come in and do the same but I think it's not all doom and gloom. Get the rest of the team right it will make it easier to get a new man in and firing, whether that should be another teenager I don't know. Finding another Kodjia won't be easy either , but if we continue to make chances and get shots on goal (we were amongst the highest in the League I believe) then Tammy leaving may not be so painful . :fingerscrossed:

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On 2017-5-7 at 18:48, Buster Footman's T shirt said:

Need to recruit well. LJ needs to be a lot quicker in deciding his strongest team. Then needs to stick to it as much as possible. Think 60 points is minimum target for next year. Going to try and enjoy the summer. Be interesting to see our transfer business (in and out). 

More like 65 or 70 for me. 

60 points is winning the Cardiff and Reading home games, which we should have won. 

 

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On 08/05/2017 at 01:49, SimplyRed said:

A poor season which, fortunately, the club survived.

We need to improve all departments, including the manager.  Otherwise, expect more of the same next season.

 

Advice to Lansdown:

Relieve Johnson of his duties and take some advice on the best manager to appoint, because your current batting average is 1 for 8 - Tinnion, Johnson Snr, Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll, Cotterill and Johnson Jnr - some shocking appointments amongst that lot (only with Johnson senior has the club flirted with success in the second tier under Lansdown) 

Get yourself a proven manager (not a "learner" or an "up-and-coming"), who can build a Championship-level team that can keep clean sheets and can regularly score goals.  Simple, eh?  If you really, TRULY, want to see this club successful, you need to spend a few more millions and realise that - in this day and age - good players, and good managers, are NOT cheap.  Even if you make it to the promised land, you'll come straight back down unless you're prepared to spend yet more millions.

How much do you REALLY want success for Bristol City?  You have the immense wealth needed to back them - put your money where your mouth is...

 

 

Lansdown wants a self sufficient club. That is the ambition, the project, one of the pillars. He wants us to build a team and then hopefully reach the promised land within budget with home grown players. This model may keep us in the Championship, but is more likely to see us trying to avoid the trap door. Plus, if we do promote youth and they are good enough does anybody believe they will stay with us beyond a single season? There is so much money on the game now that players who have just a single good season are likely to be hoovered up by a bigger club, even if it means that they spend the rest of their career warming a bench or playing in the stiffs. Agents (parasites) will be trying to get the best commission deal for themselves, and building a team in this day and age is just simply not going to happen. 

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10 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Lansdown wants a self sufficient club. That is the ambition, the project, one of the pillars. He wants us to build a team and then hopefully reach the promised land within budget with home grown players. This model may keep us in the Championship, but is more likely to see us trying to avoid the trap door. Plus, if we do promote youth and they are good enough does anybody believe they will stay with us beyond a single season? There is so much money on the game now that players who have just a single good season are likely to be hoovered up by a bigger club, even if it means that they spend the rest of their career warming a bench or playing in the stiffs. Agents (parasites) will be trying to get the best commission deal for themselves, and building a team in this day and age is just simply not going to happen. 

Some will undoubtedly criticise you for a 'negative post' Cheese

but you sum up IMHO the highly likely reality and my fear about the 'lovely' philosophy / idea

I hope I'm wrong but I certainly can't see us being self-sustainable and establishing ourselves very comfortably in Championship at the same time

A high proportion of Clubs are also trying to do exactly the same thing and thus we have to be better than them or the vast majority of them,  in all areas , or at least most aspects / areas to succeed 

Well ...... here's hoping :fingerscrossed::blink:

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10 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Some will undoubtedly criticise you for a 'negative post' Cheese

but you sum up IMHO the highly likely reality and my fear about the 'lovely' philosophy / idea

I hope I'm wrong but I certainly can't see us being self-sustainable and establishing ourselves very comfortably in Championship at the same time

A high proportion of Clubs are also trying to do exactly the same thing and thus we have to be better than them or the vast majority of them,  in all areas , or at least most aspects / areas to succeed 

Well ...... here's hoping :fingerscrossed::blink:

I think fans have to realise that the clubs aim is to provide a team playing football for the foreseeable future. Although it would be nice to get promotion the club have no intention of seriously mounting a challenge next season or any season. Buying a season ticket is like buying a lucky dip lottery ticket. This summer is going to be a real acid test. We need quality to avoid another season like we have just had. I envision some more 'promising' league one and  league two youths, some loan 'punts', some academy promotions, and maybe one experienced head whose knees have gone.

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1 hour ago, Cheesleysmate said:

I think fans have to realise that the clubs aim is to provide a team playing football for the foreseeable future. Although it would be nice to get promotion the club have no intention of seriously mounting a challenge next season or any season. Buying a season ticket is like buying a lucky dip lottery ticket. This summer is going to be a real acid test. We need quality to avoid another season like we have just had. I envision some more 'promising' league one and  league two youths, some loan 'punts', some academy promotions, and maybe one experienced head whose knees have gone.

So SL is investing huge amounts of money with no intention of ever mounting a promotion challenge - seriously?

 

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Good thread this one, some good views from all (most :P).

Here's my thoughts this morning, as some of yours have got me thinking a bit differently to stuff I've posted elsewhere.

Imagine SL doesn't allow LJ to spend willy-nilly.  Imagine him saying that he's had two windows to get the squad bulked up in terms of numbers and now the concentration is on players that make the first eleven better, therefore with the ones occupying the slots pushed onto the bench and those on the bench on the fringes of the match day squad.

It won't be as black and white as that, but here's my plan.  None of this has any insight to whether certain players want out or not.

Keepers - we ain't gonna spend £2m or £30k a week on a keeper, so unless we can find a cheap nugget who can oust FF immediately, we go with the 4 we've got.  FF, IL, MOL, JJW.

Right Back - Focus Area #1 - stop pissing about with ML (and I love Litts), and get the best RB you can attract within the financial constraints we have.  In parallel, develop Vyner and Moore as cover, and whoever is coming through behind them.

Left Back - Focus Area #2 - very similar to above.  SG will go, JBry becomes cover and also has flexibility to cover elsewhere.  He might suffer, but tough, we are trying to better what we've got.

Centre backs - assume Flint is staying, and therefore no change.  AF, BW, HM, TM, ZV. If AF does go then you replace, but only if he does go.

Midfield - Tomlin will go, GON will go.  Hegeler might go.  Reid might go.  Focus Area #3 - go out and get the Central Midfielder to compliment MP, but who can link the midfield to the attack.  KS, JBro, even JBry provide back-up.

Wide-men - COD, Pato, JBry, JBro....dont always have to play as out and out wingers, so we have flexibility.

Strikers - Focus Area #4 - replace Tammy.  If we go with another Tammy-type loan we must be prepared that he won't match up to Tammy, so really need to get as much out of Djuric, Taylor, Engvall and McCoulsky.

So I reckon we need 4 players, and those should be 'ready now'.  They don't have to be 27-32, if they're 22 and good enough, I'd prefer that.  I think Lee will have a better chance with younger players.

Those 4 might cost us £10-12m, but I think a concentrated approach would reap better rewards. 

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Good thread this one, some good views from all (most :P).

Here's my thoughts this morning, as some of yours have got me thinking a bit differently to stuff I've posted elsewhere.

Imagine SL doesn't allow LJ to spend willy-nilly.  Imagine him saying that he's had two windows to get the squad bulked up in terms of numbers and now the concentration is on players that make the first eleven better, therefore with the ones occupying the slots pushed onto the bench and those on the bench on the fringes of the match day squad.

It won't be as black and white as that, but here's my plan.  None of this has any insight to whether certain players want out or not.

Keepers - we ain't gonna spend £2m or £30k a week on a keeper, so unless we can find a cheap nugget who can oust FF immediately, we go with the 4 we've got.  FF, IL, MOL, JJW.

Right Back - Focus Area #1 - stop pissing about with ML (and I love Litts), and get the best RB you can attract within the financial constraints we have.  In parallel, develop Vyner and Moore as cover, and whoever is coming through behind them.

Left Back - Focus Area #2 - very similar to above.  SG will go, JBry becomes cover and also has flexibility to cover elsewhere.  He might suffer, but tough, we are trying to better what we've got.

Centre backs - assume Flint is staying, and therefore no change.  AF, BW, HM, TM, ZV. If AF does go then you replace, but only if he does go.

Midfield - Tomlin will go, GON will go.  Hegeler might go.  Reid might go.  Focus Area #3 - go out and get the Central Midfielder to compliment MP, but who can link the midfield to the attack.  KS, JBro, even JBry provide back-up.

Wide-men - COD, Pato, JBry, JBro....dont always have to play as out and out wingers, so we have flexibility.

Strikers - Focus Area #4 - replace Tammy.  If we go with another Tammy-type loan we must be prepared that he won't match up to Tammy, so really need to get as much out of Djuric, Taylor, Engvall and McCoulsky.

So I reckon we need 4 players, and those should be 'ready now'.  They don't have to be 27-32, if they're 22 and good enough, I'd prefer that.  I think Lee will have a better chance with younger players.

Those 4 might cost us £10-12m, but I think a concentrated approach would reap better rewards. 

Exactly this.

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On 13/05/2017 at 10:37, downendcity said:

So SL is investing huge amounts of money with no intention of ever mounting a promotion challenge - seriously?

 

He's building for self sufficiency. Unfortunately, if the youth is any good they will be snapped up. You cannot build a team for promotion from your academy in this day and age. 

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On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 21:02, Rich said:

Very pragmatic that. With the right squad, I also think we can do well.

with the right squad anyone can do well........if you have the right manager....we have SL`s puppet.

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Just now, Cheesleysmate said:

He's building for self sufficiency. Unfortunately, if the youth is any good they will be snapped up. You cannot build a team for promotion from your academy in this day and age. 

I don't think there has been any suggestion that we will build a team from the academy - much as though it would be one heck of an achievement if we could!

The financial structure of the club is geared towards financial self sufficiency - the redeveloped AG to give greater income on match days and non match days. Similarly investing in the academy means we have a better chance of bringing through our own young players. As far as transfer strategy is concerned I presume we will be looking to buy young players with potential, so that we benefit from that potential if they come into th first team and recoup a profit of they do move on to another team.

However, none of that precludes Sl investing money to fund transfer fees for other, experienced players who might command a decent transfer fee and higher wages. It is all part of a balance approach. In the past we seem to have the majority of the team as journey man pros on high wages, but these players turned out to be a millstone round our necks, as we could not move them on exactly because of the high wages they were on , but when they no longer had the performance in them.

Relegated prem clubs will be carrying a wage bill we cannot compete with, because they have parachute payments. In order to compete, and not to contravene financial rules, we have the be smarter and that is what I think our future strategy will be about. Throwing money at things willy nilly has not worked in the last 6/7 years so we need a different approach.

 

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Just now, downendcity said:

I don't think there has been any suggestion that we will build a team from the academy - much as though it would be one heck of an achievement if we could!

The financial structure of the club is geared towards financial self sufficiency - the redeveloped AG to give greater income on match days and non match days. Similarly investing in the academy means we have a better chance of bringing through our own young players. As far as transfer strategy is concerned I presume we will be looking to buy young players with potential, so that we benefit from that potential if they come into th first team and recoup a profit of they do move on to another team.

However, none of that precludes Sl investing money to fund transfer fees for other, experienced players who might command a decent transfer fee and higher wages. It is all part of a balance approach. In the past we seem to have the majority of the team as journey man pros on high wages, but these players turned out to be a millstone round our necks, as we could not move them on exactly because of the high wages they were on , but when they no longer had the performance in them.

Relegated prem clubs will be carrying a wage bill we cannot compete with, because they have parachute payments. In order to compete, and not to contravene financial rules, we have the be smarter and that is what I think our future strategy will be about. Throwing money at things willy nilly has not worked in the last 6/7 years so we need a different approach.

 

Does BCFC actually get all income from matchdays inc catering etc or is there a percentage that goes in the BS/SL repayment/rent cost? where are the figures that show just how better off BCFC are? or are we just fed from the BS table?

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On ‎08‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 01:49, SimplyRed said:

A poor season which, fortunately, the club survived.

We need to improve all departments, including the manager.  Otherwise, expect more of the same next season.

 

Advice to Lansdown:

Relieve Johnson of his duties and take some advice on the best manager to appoint, because your current batting average is 1 for 8 - Tinnion, Johnson Snr, Coppell, Millen, McInnes, O'Driscoll, Cotterill and Johnson Jnr - some shocking appointments amongst that lot (only with Johnson senior has the club flirted with success in the second tier under Lansdown) 

Get yourself a proven manager (not a "learner" or an "up-and-coming"), who can build a Championship-level team that can keep clean sheets and can regularly score goals.  Simple, eh?  If you really, TRULY, want to see this club successful, you need to spend a few more millions and realise that - in this day and age - good players, and good managers, are NOT cheap.  Even if you make it to the promised land, you'll come straight back down unless you're prepared to spend yet more millions.

How much do you REALLY want success for Bristol City?  You have the immense wealth needed to back them - put your money where your mouth is...

 

 

Agree, if you want the best it costs and we should at least try to keep our best players and stop cashing in on them.

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Of course money counts, but not for everything.

Cannot be bothered to work it out exactly, but the team that finished the season strongly cost us relative peanuts. At Brighton, we started with Fielding, Little, Flint, Wright, Bryan, Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Paterson, Taylor, Abraham.

Tammy complicates it, but there is a lot of relatively cheap players there. Whole lot must of cost, what, less than a couple of mil? Not exactly a United Nations squad either.

I get the buying for the future bit, but our money signings have not really paid a dividend yet. Where our priorities are is pretty well agreed. LJ has to spend whatever budget he gets this year well to make an impact. Not sure it is a mark if success when those not playing, that you signed, cost a lot more than those you 'trust'.

Important summer.

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On Sat May 13 2017 at 09:27, Cheesleysmate said:

I think fans have to realise that the clubs aim is to provide a team playing football for the foreseeable future. Although it would be nice to get promotion the club have no intention of seriously mounting a challenge next season or any season. Buying a season ticket is like buying a lucky dip lottery ticket. This summer is going to be a real acid test. We need quality to avoid another season like we have just had. I envision some more 'promising' league one and  league two youths, some loan 'punts', some academy promotions, and maybe one experienced head whose knees have gone.

spot on think your so right

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