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Guardian article today on SL and Johnson


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Just now, JamesBCFC said:

Because a non serious comment made at an event with a relaxed atmosphere should always be taken completely seriously.

Oh, right. It was a "non serious" comment. Well, that clears that up then. Silly me.

 

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30 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

40% gives you 19 wins over a Championship season. 57 points just from wins. Assume maybe 12 draws and losses in the remaining 15 games and you finish up on  69 points.  Good enough for top ten this season.

Ultimately, it's points on the board that count and we finished 3 pts above the drop zone. Points per game is a better measure than win % as well and at 54 pts from 46 games LJ has achieved 1.17 ppg this season.

21 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Anyone else reckon that board meeting where SL said to LJ "we've thought about giving you the boot" was the beginning of the end for Pembo?

LJ possibly saying "not my fault Gov, it's Pembo. Can't organise a piss up in a brewery. It's him you need to get rid of. Oh and can I have Macca as my new no. 2?"

Yes, suspect you are onto something there given Pembo departed Monday morning after the Burton game.

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13 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Do you really, seriously, honestly believe that..?!

I can sort of understand the concern being raised amidst the dire run, but it is childish, bordering on ignorant to claim LJ is only in (still in) the job because he's Lansdown's buddy. 

That probably means he trusts him more than if "Mr A.N. Other" was our manager, but you seem to completely ignore the fact that either side of that (granted, horrendous) LJ's record here had been pretty decent. 

If we can reduce, if not eradicate the bad period next season, we should be pushing easily into mid table. If he struggles/fails to take us to comfortable consolidation next season, then I'll agree that he's not the man to take us forward, however last season + the start and end of this season, certainly indicate that he COULD be!

Of course I seriously, honestly believe that. What is your explanation of why LJ survived a club record 8 straight defeats, 4 wins in 26 games or whatever it was?

Here's hoping he can eradicate "the bad period" next season, as the one this season lasted from 14 October until 11 March. Five months.

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2 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The board didn't even discuss the possibility of removing LJ until March! Ha, that's unbelievable. If true.

So , Lee, we're thinking of sacking you , what do you think ? 

:blink:

S'not me boss , it's that Pembo bloke . What a loser that guy is and whilst we're on it , Des ' frocking ' Taylor ..,

Alledgedly .

:whistle2:

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3 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Oh, right. It was a "non serious" comment. Well, that clears that up then. Silly me.

 

Yes, it was.

Go and watch the video if you have to.

Its clear from the tone and reaction that it wasnt totally serious, though he did follow it up with "I genuinely believe it could happen" or words to that effect, the initial statement was made in keeping with the rest of the event- casual, good natured and not taking itself too seriously

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Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Of course I seriously, honestly believe that.

Here's hoping he can eradicate "the bad period" next season, as the one this season lasted from 14 October until 11 March. Five months.

And the top 6 form he presided over was 5 playing months prior to this and then a couple of months since.

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Just now, Kid in the Riot said:

Of course I seriously, honestly believe that.

Here's hoping he can eradicate "the bad period" next season, as the one this season lasted from 14 October until 11 March. Five months.

So you are just going to ignore the other pretty positive periods, which clearly display that he does have some credentials as a Championship level manager and isn't purely in the job because he's Lansdown's mate..? 

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3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

14 October until 11 March. Five months.

C'mon Kid. Really?

Break the season into three blocks. Games 1-15, 16-30 and 31-46.

1) 7W 3D 5L, 46% win rate, 1.6ppg (6 Aug - 29 Oct)

2) 2W, 2D, 11L 13% win rate, 0.53ppg (5 Nov - 11 Feb)

3) 6W, 4D, 5L, 40% win rate, 1.5ppg (14 Feb - 7 May)

The bad period was number 2. 5 Nov - 11 Feb. 3 months.

I'm not excusing it.  But I can't let you lump it all together like that and call it a 5 month stinker.

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10 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So you are just going to ignore the other pretty positive periods, which clearly display that he does have some credentials as a Championship level manager and isn't purely in the job because he's Lansdown's mate..? 

to be honest, he's well with in his right to ignore it, it was that bad a run, 99% of managers would of been sacked because of a run like that, Johnson being Lansdown mate was a big factor in him staying it wasn't the only factor but was a big one,

So I kinda agree with kid here

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7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

C'mon Kid. Really?

Break the season into three blocks. Games 1-15, 16-30 and 31-46.

1) 7W 3D 5L, 46% win rate, 1.6ppg (6 Aug - 29 Oct)

2) 2W, 2D, 11L 13% win rate, 0.53ppg (5 Nov - 11 Feb)

3) 6W, 4D, 5L, 40% win rate, 1.5ppg (14 Feb - 7 May)

The bad period was number 2. 5 Nov - 11 Feb. 3 months.

I'm not excusing it.  But I can't let you lump it all together like that and call it a 5 month stinker.

The bad period was a really big number two!

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4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

to be honest, he's well with in his right to ignore it, it was that bad a run, 99% of managers would of been sacked because of a run like that, Johnson being Lansdown mate was a big factor in him staying it wasn't the only factor but was a big one,

So I kinda agree with kid here

I acknowledged in my earlier post that their relationship quite possibly afforded LJ more trust than some other random manager might be afforded. The reason SL may have that level of trust is down to other periods of results, which have been far better than that god awful period, hense SL having the faith that he could oversee an upturn in form. And he was right! 

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27 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

So you are just going to ignore the other pretty positive periods, which clearly display that he does have some credentials as a Championship level manager and isn't purely in the job because he's Lansdown's mate..? 

 

This gets pointed out every single week but the same few individuals will continue to conveniently ignore that as it doesn't suit their argument and then persist in posting the exact same stuff week after week. It's a never ending cycle.

 

Good interview from LJ and SL, a very good article. Big summer ahead but I'm looking forward to next season. I've said many times on here now that I'm sure LJ will have learned much from his first full season at this level and the way we recovered from the bad run goes some way in showing that he has done and is learning on the job. I'm proud of the way we ended the season and glad that we went against the trend and were rewarded for remaining loyal to the manager, particularly for SL who was berated for making that decision before results went on the upturn. LJ and SL were criticised when things were going bad and a fair bit was warranted but the abuse from a few was terrible and simply baffling to me. Both Lee and Steve are committed to the club and have the club's interests at heart, for that reason I'm glad they are overseeing our future. As LJ says at the end of the article, everyone needs to move on from that bad run now and I think most already have. We've since gone on to recover from it and we must now look to the future. I've seen enough before and after that time to be hopeful for the future without having any expectancy because it is City at the end of the day!

 

I wish LJ and SL all the best in making it work for next season and the seasons after that.

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Just now, JHAGa said:

 

This gets pointed out every single week but the same few individuals will continue to conveniently ignore that as it doesn't suit their argument and then persist in posting the exact same stuff week after week. It's a never ending cycle.

 

Good interview from LJ and SL, a very good article. Big summer ahead but I'm looking forward to next season. I've said many times on here now that I'm sure LJ will have learned much from his first full season at this level and the way we recovered from the bad run goes some way in showing that he has done and is learning on the job. I'm proud of the way we ended the season and glad that we went against the trend and were rewarded for remaining loyal to the manager, particularly for SL who was berated for making that decision before results went on the upturn. LJ and SL were criticised when things were going bad and a fair bit was warranted but the abuse from a few was terrible and simply baffling to me. Both Lee and Steve are committed to the club and have the club's interests at heart, for that reason I'm glad they are overseeing our future. As LJ says at the end of the article, everyone needs to move on from that bad run now and I think most already have. We've since gone on to recover from it and we must now look to the future. I've seen enough before and after that time to be hopeful for the future without having any expectancy because it is City at the end of the day!

 

I wish LJ and SL all the best in making it work for next season and the seasons after that.

aren't you doing that by ignoring the worst run in the entire history of Bristol City Football Club as well as it doesn't suit your argument?

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2 hours ago, Tipps69 said:

But SL is correct, this place for example was toxic, the hate that was being directed at SL & LJ at times was nothing short of criminal.

Is LJ telling the truth about death threats? Because if he is then my above statement is wrong as it actually is criminal!!

For what SL has done for this club, off his own back, he doesn't have to invest millions of his own money into what amounts to a hobby for everyone else but just about everything about the man has been questioned!! Is that acceptable? I'd say not or not to the extremes that it has been.

Where would we be without SL? My view is that that question doesn't bare thinking about because we could be in a hell of a lot worse of a position than we currently are.

Blimey, LJ actually had death threats?! Don't recall seeing that part when I read it this morning, perhaps it's been updated. 

If true, that is obviously well out of order....it's only a game!

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3 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

Its a good article. However, if LJ was indeed receiving "death threats" then that is an appalling state of affairs and as a fan base we must surely be better than that. I personally wanted him sacked and did not see him as the person who would bring us long term success. BUT to make it that personal is way out of order. For me, the jury remains firmly out and I still cant really work out how are season panned out the way it did.... I would also make some observations:

1. Unless I have missed something - LJ has spent and had at his disposal more resources than any other BCFC Manager. 

2. SL did not overspend under GJ IMO - if they paid inflated wages then plainly that is an issue. BUT i always felt that the team was not strong enough. Was Nicky Maynard not our record buy at the time? This season we have had circa 6 million quid worth of players on the bench or on loan....unheard of.

3. How many young players have really been brought through. Vyner had some game time but looked out of his depth. McClouskey had 15 mins or so against Hull. That's it. ODowda is a full international and Brownhill was a star performer when Barnsley went up. I think both have underperformed for large parts of the season. The youth team have not really been knocking on the first team door... 

4. The stadium needed to be done and should have been done much earlier. How much time and £ was wasted at Ashton Vale. 

5. What fans really want BCFC to fail? Come on. We want to win which is why passion for the club turns to anger. We should be doing better and my own view is that we do not have enough winners in the higher echelons of the club. 

6. By its very nature criticism comes when things are not going well. The worst run in the history of the club will no doubt justify criticism from the fan base (and rightly so). However, I have seen loads of posts criticising the board and its policies. To be fair, given where we are, those criticisms are entirely justified.Would SL have tolerated being known as the worst financial advisor in town - NO he would not.   

Progression has come because Cotterill got us up with a thread bear squad playing unbelievable football when we were on the verge of League Two... this now needs to be built on firmly rather than simply rolling out "we have a long term project". 

The decision to stick with LJ only bears fruit if he is away from relegation next season. I for one hope to see progression and that he succeeds. Happy to then eat humble pie.  But the way our form has fluctuated it is difficult to know which BCFC will turn up. Plainly some of LJ's comments reveal that there was unrest behind the scenes regarding his coaching methods and the role of agents..... interesting indeed....

The wages were the reasons for the increasing losses back then. It was rumoured (strongly !) that we were paying Stern Jon :facepalm: £15k a week, and that was 10 years ago.

And he was beyond shit !

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5 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

aren't you doing that by ignoring the worst run in the entire history of Bristol City Football Club as well as it doesn't suit your argument?

 

I don't ignore anything. I acknowledge the bad run and I acknowledge the positives from before and after it, as opposed to just looking at the negatives and ignoring the positives.

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1 minute ago, JHAGa said:

 

I don't ignore anything. I acknowledge the bad run and I acknowledge the positives from before and after it, as opposed to just looking at the negatives and ignoring the positives.

Positive form before, can't disagree with results. I still felt we looked poor and the demise we saw for the bulk of the season was obviously coming.

Anyway on to next season.

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6 minutes ago, 054123 said:

Positive form before, can't disagree with results. I still felt we looked poor and the demise we saw for the bulk of the season was obviously coming.

Anyway on to next season.

 I wouldn't say we looked poor. We weren't hammering teams (apart from Fulham) but we were winning and the Championship is so competitive that you rarely ease to wins. Look at the GD of clubs this season outside of the top two and Fulham (funnily enough) and it shows that teams that win, rarely win comfortably due to how close the league is. When I say before the bad run, I also take into account 15/16. For me, split LJ's tenure into four parts (end of 15/16, start of 16/17, middle of 16/17 and end of 16/17) and he's done a good job in three out of four of them which gives me more than enough to be hopeful for the future, especially when you take into account he's still learning and it was his first full season at this level coming up against very experienced managers. A bump in the road was always to be expected (maybe not quite so big as it proved to be!) but we eventually came through it and I believe LJ will have learned a lot from that time. A big summer ahead for sure but I am hopeful looking forward.

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43 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Yes, it was.

Go and watch the video if you have to.

Its clear from the tone and reaction that it wasnt totally serious, though he did follow it up with "I genuinely believe it could happen" or words to that effect, the initial statement was made in keeping with the rest of the event- casual, good natured and not taking itself too seriously

So, it was a "non serious" comment that Lee genuinely believes could happen. I'm confused. As are you, I suggest. Go back and check how serious you thought it was when you commented on it on here on August 3rd. 

Lee is a very confident young chap - and you need a lot of self-belief to do what he does - but this confidence is not yet based on what he has done or achieved. This season - or part of it - will have served as a bit of a reality check to that confidence, which might be no bad thing in the long run.

Lee's "Europa League" comment was reported on the BBC Sport website, under a headline "Lee Johnson: Bristol City capable of going from Championship to Europe in five years" with quoted comments, such as his response to being asked where he saw us being in 5 years, and of how City aim to "fast-track" efforts to emulate Swansea and Stoke; and "I believe it as well. I believe it is putting pressure on everybody at the club, and we can deal with that pressure."

I think Lee was, is, deadly serious, and having stayed up, it won't be too long before that huge confidence returns, if it hasn't already (but he is likely to be slightly more guarded about what he says in future).

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1 hour ago, MichaelRobartes said:

I still don't think that LJ is the man for us. Of course I hope he proves me wrong.

 

Me neither. I think we're taking a gamble that the learning curve alluded to by Lee in that article is mastered and he sorts out some of his deficiencies.

If that happens, I'll be delighted. I've certainly nothing against Lee as a person.

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55 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

C'mon Kid. Really?

Break the season into three blocks. Games 1-15, 16-30 and 31-46.

1) 7W 3D 5L, 46% win rate, 1.6ppg (6 Aug - 29 Oct)

2) 2W, 2D, 11L 13% win rate, 0.53ppg (5 Nov - 11 Feb)

3) 6W, 4D, 5L, 40% win rate, 1.5ppg (14 Feb - 7 May)

The bad period was number 2. 5 Nov - 11 Feb. 3 months.

I'm not excusing it.  But I can't let you lump it all together like that and call it a 5 month stinker.

Oh, now that is sneaky! Breaking up the season into 3 blocks, why exactly? Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story of that 5 months of extraordinarily poor form. The majority of the season.

Let me tell you that from witnessing every game we played in October - things started to go t1ts up from the Cardiff game onward. We turned in a shocking display there and similarly bad ones at QPR and v Blackburn at home, a game we were VERY fortunate to win.

From 14 October v Cardiff until 7 March v Norwich our record was as follows:

Played 25, won 3, drawn 6, lost 16, 0.6ppg (14 Oct - 7 Mar)

So, yes. REALLY we did have five months of abysmal, bottom-of the league form. Not the 3 you try and claim by manipulating the stats.

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6 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

So, it was a "non serious" comment that Lee genuinely believes could happen. I'm confused. As are you, I suggest. Go back and check how serious you thought it was when you commented on it on here on August 3rd. 

Lee is a very confident young chap - and you need a lot of self-belief to do what he does - but this confidence is not yet based on what he has done or achieved. This season - or part of it - will have served as a bit of a reality check to that confidence, which might be no bad thing in the long run.

Lee's "Europa League" comment was reported on the BBC Sport website, under a headline "Lee Johnson: Bristol City capable of going from Championship to Europe in five years" with quoted comments, such as his response to being asked where he saw us being in 5 years, and of how City aim to "fast-track" efforts to emulate Swansea and Stoke; and "I believe it as well. I believe it is putting pressure on everybody at the club, and we can deal with that pressure."

I think Lee was, is, deadly serious, and having stayed up, it won't be too long before that huge confidence returns, if it hasn't already (but he is likely to be slightly more guarded about what he says in future).

So you never made a comment that you werent that serious about, but also thought it could happen?

I did at several points during 2015/16 about Leciester winning the Premier League.

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4 hours ago, MarkRed! said:

2. SL did not overspend under GJ IMO - if they paid inflated wages then plainly that is an issue.

4. The stadium needed to be done and should have been done much earlier. How much time and £ was wasted at Ashton Vale. 

I disagree on both counts - we brought in some right tat on high wages, and it crippled us for a few seasons after

2 hours ago, 054123 said:

My heart bleeds for the torrid time they have had to endure. Guess us simple folk just don't get it.

Nobody deserves personal abuse and death threats.  It's not a joking matter - people (rightly) go to prison for that sort of thing.

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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Oh, now that is sneaky! Breaking up the season into 3 blocks, why exactly? Purely because it suits your argument. A clever attempt mate, but that does not tell the story of that 5 months of extraordinarily poor form. The majority of the season.

Let me tell you that from witnessing every game we played in October - things started to go t1ts up from the Cardiff game onward. We turned in a shocking display there and similarly bad ones at QPR and v Blackburn at home, a game we were VERY fortunate to win.

From 14 October v Cardiff until 7 March v Norwich our record was as follows:

Played 25, won 3, drawn 6, lost 16, 0.6ppg (14 Oct - 7 Mar)

So, yes. REALLY we did have five months of abysmal, bottom-of the league form. Not the 3 you try and claim by manipulating the stats.

You being selective with the dates is equally as manipulative as the person you claim is being manipulative with the parts they choose.

 

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