Retained list due out today

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, hodge said:

Stockhausen appears to believe that a RB is our #1 priority this summer. 

Interesting Wilbs wasn't announced at the same time (unless I missed something), contract talks still going on?

Edit - I did miss it, Wilbs offered chance to extend playing career with coaching duties added, not sure how I feel about that one, hopefully he's taken a pay cut. 

What does that even mean though?

No one realistically expects that we will sign just one player this summer, we do need an experienced Championship standard right back, but no more than we need at least one (in my opinion 2) strikers.

As for Wilbraham, I love the bloke but I cannot fathom any logic in extending his playing time with us now.

We should either have added him to the coaching staff or he should have left.

[Lrrr]

Just now, GrahamC said:

What does that even mean though?

No one realistically expects that we will sign just one player this summer, we do need an experienced Championship standard right back, but no more than we need at least one (in my opinion 2) strikers.

As for Wilbraham, I love the bloke but I cannot fathom any logic in extending his playing time with us now.

We should either have added him to the coaching staff or he should have left.

Only thing I'm wondering is if by keeping him around as 4th choice we can effectively combine the money for 2 strikers to pay for 1...

[GrahamC]

Just now, hodge said:

Only thing I'm wondering is if by keeping him around as 4th choice we can effectively combine the money for 2 strikers to pay for 1...

We already have 3 others, (Taylor, Djuric & Engvall,) so that would imply no new strikers arriving (which simply won't happen).

At 38 in October what sort of playing contribution can we realistically expect?

[Northern Red]

There's no indication that Wilbraham has accepted. 

[petehinton]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

What does that even mean though?

No one realistically expects that we will sign just one player this summer, we do need an experienced Championship standard right back, but no more than we need at least one (in my opinion 2) strikers.

As for Wilbraham, I love the bloke but I cannot fathom any logic in extending his playing time with us now.

We should either have added him to the coaching staff or he should have left.

Experience, probably taken less money, well liked around the club, model pro for all young players, shown he can still do it at this level. 

No brainer for me. 

[Cov 77]

13 minutes ago, iamalagerdrinker said:

Hmm keep the club captain that's  played a handful of games, new captain surely next season?

The paragraph all other first team players are under contract is just a statement of fact , but I can see a few faces disappearing, don't mean Flint etc if big money, but the ones that will move on for various other reasons, like Goldbourne because rightly or wrongly LJ doesn't rate him, O'neill for geography reasons or even Engvall if LJ has a change of mind. 

With Little and the loanees that's say eight out leaving 4/5 to come in, tbh I don't think Wilbs will be involved much so squad smaller again.

[Fordy62]

26 minutes ago, Septic Peg said:

Can't take the credit... twas @Fordy62. He's ITK.

Not sure if I'd go that far!

[RedM]

9 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

There's no indication that Wilbraham has accepted. 

Exactly. I previously stated I was confident he would after many of you had him out the door, now my feeling has swung the other way. I'm uncertain, and perhaps he is too.

[Septic Peg]

1 minute ago, Fordy62 said:

Not sure if I'd go that far!

Only playing Fordy... was winding up Robbo really... 

[RobArnold10]

Re: Wilbs, I get the logic. Cut price deal but club pays his coaching badges, and in a world where there's no emergency loans any more should injuries occur you have a fit and ready player to come in and assist, rather than check the free agent scrap heap (Cardiff and Chamakh really didn't work) out of desperation. I really don't see the weight in the negativity.

[Shtanley]

44 minutes ago, smokey live said:

And a keeper. We need a better keeper.

Fielding isn't great but having watched Lucic in a fair few youth games I think personally them two should compete for number 1 slot. 

[petehinton]

33 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

There's no indication that Wilbraham has accepted. 

I've heard he won't accept unless it's solely a playing contract 

[JoeAman08]

Club should be more cynical in my opinion. Love Wilbraham but it is time to go. Little was the right call as well. Good squad players but this pathway won't ever open up if we just resign everyone. This team needs more outgoings than incomings. We've lost 5 so far including loans. Another 2-3 need to go as well. A top RB, striker and right footed winger and that's it bar an amazing keeper becoming available. 

[steviestevieneville]

3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don't get what's wrong with publicly criticising a player in regards to Mags. He's a professional footballer and if that upsets him, maybe he's in the wrong field. Point is, that's part of the game just as being dropped for a better player at the time. Loads of potential and I love him but he made his mistakes in the last few games before January which cost him his job. Then he got a few chances here and there and didn't take them. If coming out publicly then makes him kick it up a notch then that's the right thing to do. Paterson was sat there for months. He probably felt like he was unjustly froze out but he started working hard and got a chance and took it. He was a key part of our survival and that's what the coaches are looking for. A bit of resilience from the younger players. Earn your spot or sit on the bench. 

Don't agree at all about the public criticism. That should always be done behind closed doors, it's a matter of trust. A player knows when he's made a mistake, if he thinks the manager is going to throw him under the bus every time how do you think that would affect the relationship and trust between them. If i played under Johnson and he publicly had a go at me i would of decked him. LJ made a habit of it during the bad run which shows he didn't handle the pressure very well  

[Meh]

Silly season is here. One journalist says we want a left sided centre back and some people are close to writing Mags obituary- get a grip FFS - he will still be a city player next season - we are building for the future.

[BobBobSuperBob]

4 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don't get what's wrong with publicly criticising a player in regards to Mags. He's a professional footballer and if that upsets him, maybe he's in the wrong field.

Don't you Joe ?

Really

Possibly the thing pros hate most , being criticised publicly

SAF never did

Listened to a Portugese Football reporter the other day who was saying it was Jose Mourinhos golden rule (Not too) and one he got from The European Cup Winning Benfica Coach (Can't remember his name) and that he kept to this through his successs at Porto, Chelsea (1st time around) and Inter , but had started to do this and his success has not been same

If you want to criticise players do it in the dressing room , or better still in your office one to one , but never in the Public Domain - The bigger the audience the bigger the likely 'damage' / fallout IMHO

 

When criticised the player will either -

* A few / some may get angry and go out to try and prove you wrong

* The odd one may crumble due to lack of confidence and being , as they may see, humiliated publicly

* The vast majority will simply remember and be disgruntled and likely not forgive 

In addition friends and others in the squad are likely to be similarly unimpressed on the players behalf

 

All in all ,a high percentage of a negative outcome IMHO

The wise old coach may know once in a blue moon that a particular player actually might benefit or react positively if dug out in public

Johnson is not that experienced or wise IMHO

Johnson did it on a regular basis and alll but finished O'Donnells future at the Club publicly in about 50 secs on RB post Sheff Weds

As for Magnusson - He was a peculiar and surprising target for LJs criticism post match at Preston as he'd come on as a sub at 3 ? 4 ? Down and there were 11 players who started who one might expect to be more subject to criticism

A major flaw in LJ and we havnt seen it for a fair few weeks and hopefully he's woken up and not a week too soon IMHO 

 

[JoeAman08]

10 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Don't agree at all about the public criticism. That should always be done behind closed doors, it's a matter of trust. A player knows when he's made a mistake, if he thinks the manager is going to throw him under the bus every time how do you think that would affect the relationship and trust between them. If i played under Johnson and he publicly had a go at me i would of decked him. LJ made a habit of it during the bad run which shows he didn't handle the pressure very well  

I think there needs to be a mix. Maybe he's said to Magnusson in the past. The point I wanted to get across is that I don't think it's a big enough deal for a player to want to leave because it does happen in football. The trust thing goes both way. If you're trusted to play you need to reward that with a good performance. Could argue it for hours to be honest but it's how I feel. 

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, JoeAman08 said:

I think there needs to be a mix. Maybe he's said to Magnusson in the past. The point I wanted to get across is that I don't think it's a big enough deal for a player to want to leave because it does happen in football. The trust thing goes both way. If you're trusted to play you need to reward that with a good performance. Could argue it for hours to be honest but it's how I feel. 

Nobody said he wants to leave Joe

[JoeAman08]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Don't you Joe ?

Really

Possibly the thing pros hate most , being criticised publicly

SAF never did

Listened to a Portugese Football reporter the other day who was saying it was Jose Mourinhos golden rule (Not too) and one he got from The European Cup Winning Benfica Coach (Can't remember his name) and that he kept to this through his successs at Porto, Chelsea (1st time around) and Inter , but had started to do this and his success has not been same

If you want to criticise players do it in the dressing room , or better still in your office one to one , but never in the Public Domain - The bigger the audience the bigger the likely 'damage' / fallout IMHO

When criticised the player will either 

A few / some may get angry and go out to try and prove you wrong

The odd one may crumble due to lack of confidence and being , as they may see, humiliated publicly

The vast majority will simply remember and be disgruntled and likely not forgive 

In addition friends and others in the squad are likely to be similarly unimpressed on the players behalf

 

All in all ,a high percentage of a negative outcome IMHO

The wise old coach may know once in a blue moon that a particular player actually might benefit or react positively if dug out in public

Johnson is not that experienced or wise IMHO

Johnson did it on a regular basis and alll but finished O'Donnells future at the Club publicly in about 50 secs on RB post Sheff Weds

As for Magnusson - He was a peculiar and surprising target for LJs criticism post match at Preston as he'd come on as a sub at 3 ? 4 ? Down and there were 11 players who started who one might expect to be more subject to criticism

A major flaw in LJ and we havnt seen it for a fair few weeks and not to soon IMHO 

 

I've replied to another already but it's just how I feel about it. A footballer is in the public eye and maybe criticism isn't the right word. It may come out like that but think LJ is just bluntly and painfully honest(he does need work himself). Mourhino has criticised players publicly this season(Luke Shaw for sure). Opposite ends of the coaching spectrum but it is done. As I've said, personally, I don't think it is a big deal. As long as it is said in person as well. As a man, I wouldn't take it to heart. I'd want to get better so it didn't happen again. 

[JoeAman08]

6 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Nobody said he wants to leave Joe

There were a few posts earlier that stated if they were Mags they would be wanting to leave after the comments after Preston game. Posts 128 & 134

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I've replied to another already but it's just how I feel about it. A footballer is in the public eye and maybe criticism isn't the right word. It may come out like that but think LJ is just bluntly and painfully honest(he does need work himself). Mourhino has criticised players publicly this season(Luke Shaw for sure). Opposite ends of the coaching spectrum but it is done. As I've said, personally, I don't think it is a big deal. As long as it is said in person as well. As a man, I wouldn't take it to heart. I'd want to get better so it didn't happen again. 

It's what the players think about it that matters Joe , not what you , or I think about it

[steviestevieneville]

Just now, JoeAman08 said:

There were a few posts earlier that stated if they were Mags they would be wanting to leave after the comments after Preston game. 

Yes but he hasn't said anything as far as we know . You know what it's like on here , if a few say it it'll become fact. I would of let Johnson know in no uncertain terms how i felt . LJ has admitted he's made mistakes and slagging players off in public was a massive one and a easy way to lose a dressing room 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, BobBobSuperBob said:

It's what the players think about it that matters Joe , not what you , or I think about it

It's very true but that is all I can give is my opinion. Surely not all players are the same though. I've no clue who may take a public criticism better than others. I'll agree it's risky though. 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, steviestevieneville said:

Yes but he hasn't said anything as far as we know . You know what it's like on here , if a few say it it'll become fact. I would of let Johnson know in no uncertain terms how i felt . LJ has admitted he's made mistakes and slagging players off in public was a massive one and a easy way to lose a dressing room 

No he hasn't said anything and I don't think if he left that would be the reason. Just never thought that would be enough for it to happen. 

[AboveCat]

I spent the eve with Mags a few weeks ago and he's obviously frustrated not playing but he's also unhappy with a few other factors. He really loves the City (area) but if an offer comes in I personally think he would go.  

[RedM]

32 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

There were a few posts earlier that stated if they were Mags they would be wanting to leave after the comments after Preston game. Posts 128 & 134

As I wrote one of the posts you mention I will respectfully reply. Yes I did say IF I were him after Preston I would certainly be considering my options and looking to manoeuvre a move. I am not saying he himself is doing this or feeling this way. 

I don't think players are beyond a public critism, as long as it's constructive, just the same as they are publicly praised. But I do think that Mags was unfairly and unnecessarily singled out. He came on when we were 3-0 down, and very soon after did slip/wrongly time a challenge allowing their player to jump over him and waltz through and score their 4th. If my memory was right I don't think Mags even was given much time to warm up before being subbed on. Johnson then made the comment about him being on his backside too easily, or something like that.

You look at the TEAM Non-Performance that evening and wonder how a player who was subbed on, when already 3 down and we having not looking like scoring all night, was flogged so publically then hardly played again for the rest of the season after that. 

He maybe a better person than I. I don't forgive and forget very easily, which I acknowledge could be seen as a flaw.

[Judda]

I like mags. He may need to toughen up but he's still young isn't he?

[BCFC Rich]

59 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Possibly the thing pros hate most , being criticised publicly

SAF never did

Listened to a Portugese Football reporter the other day who was saying it was Jose Mourinhos golden rule (Not too) and one he got from The European Cup Winning Benfica Coach (Can't remember his name) and that he kept to this through his successs at Porto, Chelsea (1st time around) and Inter , but had started to do this and his success has not been sameIf you want to criticise players do it in the dressing room , or better still in your office one to one , but never in the Public Domain - The bigger the audience the bigger the likely 'damage' / fallout IMHO

7

Not sure this is actually true, SAF actually did this every now and then particuarly with Beckham and a quick search gave me this about Ronaldo:

Quote

 

"I don't accept that he will give goals away because of the player he is," said Ferguson. "I speak to him about it. I don't accept that from anyone. In European football, if you give the ball away it takes a long time to get it back."

Ferguson said that Ronaldo had grown tired of some players trying everything they could to stop him, but the United manager believes that the World Player of the Year is allowing frustration to get the run of him.

"He always feels he's not getting the proper protection from referees and I think that, maybe, in quite a few cases he is right, and a few cases he is not right," said Ferguson. "It's hard when a player who wants to entertain doesn't get everything his own way. But you can't get everything your own way. He understands that and there's not a problem with that."

 

 

Also, Mourinho has definitely always done this even in the first spell at Chelsea. I remember in particular Joe Cole being called out for scoring a goal and then switching off.

41 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

It's what the players think about it that matters Joe , not what you , or I think about it

Joe Cole even came out and defended him after recent criticism of this tactic.

I don't actually like this tactic and I do agree with you in general but also think it can occasionally have its place. What do you do if you have invested in a player told them what to do, how you want them to play and they don't do it? no matter how much training etc. I think then you either move them on or as one last role of the dice you publically make it known your not happy and hope that has the result. I definitely not saying that is what has happened with Mags and he is young and very new to the club and it seems inappropriate in this case. But for some players it can work - using Joe Cole again that was definitely him at the height of his career and he credits that to Joses tough love.

[AboveCat]

8 minutes ago, cynic said:

If he toughens up over the pre-season, fair enough - but if he doesn't, he has no future in the Championship.

 

He certainly has a future at this level and I would hope it's with us, however, I'm not confident 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

2 hours ago, hodge said:

His list in order 1: Right-back; 2: main striker; 3: goalkeeper; 4: right winger; 5: left-back; 6: Left-sided centre-back; 7: secondary striker.

That sounds very expensive