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Saints, or Sinners


Hampshire Red

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So saints aren't a top 4 club and may never be. They have been the role model for many clubs, perhaps like BCFC with a new stadium within the city/ town and a brilliant academy.

But why are all the fans so p*****ed off?  Chairman called Kruger and an owner in Katherine Liebherr who never attends games but now knows her way to China in attempts to sell Hampshire's top club to the foreigners.

I hope we never see criticism of our owner and board next season like a lot of the nonsense posted here between January and March 2017. 

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Quite right, what a thoroughly excellent post. Our board, irrespective of how many games we lose in a row, irrespective of how awful things are on the pitch, irrespective of how divisive things are in the stands, are beyond reproach and that's the way it should always be. 

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29 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

So saints aren't a top 4 club and may never be. They have been the role model for many clubs, perhaps like BCFC with a new stadium within the city/ town and a brilliant academy.

But why are all the fans so p*****ed off?  Chairman called Kruger and an owner in Katherine Liebherr who never attends games but now knows her way to China in attempts to sell Hampshire's top club to the foreigners.

I hope we never see criticism of our owner and board next season like a lot of the nonsense posted here between January and March 2017. 

It's all relative though isn't it. From the outside, without knowing all of the circumstances, things appear a certain way to outsiders looking in.

Look at us for example - new stadium, local billionaire owner, improving in all aspects off the pitch - yet last season there were people who became disillusioned at the board and SL. To a fan of, say, Northampton Town or Leyton Orient - we may look like the ideal club. Those fans though - unless they're real football nerds - may not know all the goings on and issues of last season. The criticism of the board and SL - whilst going a bit OTT perhaps on occasion - wasn't totally unjust and I can understand people's issues from last season.

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19 minutes ago, Big Red Rich said:

Quite right, what a thoroughly excellent post. Our board, irrespective of how many games we lose in a row, irrespective of how awful things are on the pitch, irrespective of how divisive things are in the stands, are beyond reproach and that's the way it should always be. 

Beyond reproach? Rather a sweeping statement isn't it?

I know not whether our board and major shareholder are squeaky clean or whether they are a den of iniquity.

But I'll throw this into the mix. The very rich of our country who reside in the UK and pay all their taxes here, get my respect. If, in fact, there are any such people.

So am I a hypocrite in accepting the owner's money bankrolling our club while he is a tax exile? Is it OK to pay less UK tax so long as he shovels it into our local football, rugby, basketball clubs?

Does one action compensate for the other?

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37 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

So saints aren't a top 4 club and may never be. They have been the role model for many clubs, perhaps like BCFC with a new stadium within the city/ town and a brilliant academy.

But why are all the fans so p*****ed off?  Chairman called Kruger and an owner in Katherine Liebherr who never attends games but now knows her way to China in attempts to sell Hampshire's top club to the foreigners.

I hope we never see criticism of our owner and board next season like a lot of the nonsense posted here between January and March 2017. 

Um whys that then? Is he above criticism? Must we all bow to  the master?

With the debt we are in (All to him) he has made us pretty unsalable!

Why should we accept meritocracy, we should be aiming to replicate Southampton, steady top half premiership club while we battle relegation from the league below, a great academy producing world class stars, we got Bobby Reid!

Foreign ownership does not have to be bad, people on here appear to sugar coat our owner

 

hey ho, opinions egh!!

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46 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's all relative though isn't it. From the outside, without knowing all of the circumstances, things appear a certain way to outsiders looking in.

Look at us for example - new stadium, local billionaire owner, improving in all aspects off the pitch - yet last season there were people who became disillusioned at the board and SL. To a fan of, say, Northampton Town or Leyton Orient - we may look like the ideal club. Those fans though - unless they're real football nerds - may not know all the goings on and issues of last season. The criticism of the board and SL - whilst going a bit OTT perhaps on occasion - wasn't totally unjust and I can understand people's issues from last season.

Yes, we may look to be the ideal club to a fan of Northampton or Orient, but not yet Southampton (or Sunderland. Also getting "laughed" at on here by another of our "belters"). That'll be the day

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The problem is that everything surrounding the club's ownership eventually hinges on speculation.

Those who support SL and his continued ownership of the club,  do so because he is a local man ( albeit residing in a tax haven) who is supporting his local club and with the club's best interests at heart. Part of that support is, I think, influenced by the "careful for what you wish" syndrome and that they would prefer the long term plan that SL appears to implementing, geared towards the club becoming sustainable in the long term, rather than the risks that a new , perhaps foreign, owner might bring.

SL's fiercest critics believe that under different ownership we would have/will fare better in terms of on pitch performance.  They look at other clubs and what they have ( Southampton with their successful academy) and  Swansea rising from league 3 to the premier league. However, if we had a very wealthy new owner to buy the club from SL, how do we know that we might achieve something in the short term, perhaps even promotion, but risk everything in so doing with the bubble bursting soon after with catastrophic consequences for the club?

Interesting that Southampton are held up as the model of what we should be. They had been a top flight club for 25 years but went into administration only 9 years ago ( I think) and plunged down to league 1. I presume they had the much lauded academy throughout that period, but it did not help them to avoid adimistration, relegation and points penalty. It's also interesting to note that the manager that got them back from league 1 to the premier league came from Scunthorpe - how would City fans have reacted had we announced Adkins as the new City manager who would spearhead our promotion, not just from league 1, but to the top flight?

It's easy to make decisions from the sidelines, as we all do, where our "decisions' have no consequences on any of us. It is an entirely different issue when you are SL and the decision you make affect so many - players, staff and fans - and I for one do not envy him that task. 

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Yes, we may look to be the ideal club to a fan of Northampton or Orient, but not yet Southampton (or Sunderland. Also getting "laughed" at on here by another of our "belters"). That'll be the day

My point was mainly about outsiders not knowing the context or each individual club - especially the board/fan relationship. Outside of well publicised cases, like Orient, I don't generally know the board situation at most clubs.

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35 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

There was a little chap in the 1930s who wouldn't tolerate dissent. Toothbrush moustache and silly hair.

Charlie Chaplin? :P

Back to the OP. Only five years ago Saints won promotion back to "Where they (think) they belong". If the owner is able to sell a now established Prem club to owners who would invest more, that would be in the club's long term interest. Any potential buyer has probably never heard of the place, so would hopefully, do a bit of research before spending a single Yuan,Dollar or Rouble.

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1 hour ago, downendcity said:

SL's fiercest critics believe that under different ownership we would have/will fare better in terms of on pitch performance.  They look at other clubs and what they have ( Southampton with their successful academy) and  Swansea rising from league 3 to the premier league. However, if we had a very wealthy new owner to buy the club from SL, how do we know that we might achieve something in the short term, perhaps even promotion, but risk everything in so doing with the bubble bursting soon after with catastrophic consequences for the club?

 

 

 

 

I know you are generalising the majority but I'm a big critic of SL who doesn't really criticise the on the pitch performance. My concern comes from the creation and pushing of the 'Bristol Sport' brand. The idea of many sporting teams, although primarily BCFC and BRugbyFC, being administered together to save costs is a good one. In fact fans of both clubs have benefited from free tickets and discounts to the other teams. In addition fans of Bristol City have enjoyed (bar this season imo) very nice kits that are well above the standard Addidas template.

However this could all be achieved without pushing Bristol Sport as a brand. Bristol City and Bristol Rugby are two 'brands' that have been in existence for a combined 252 years. They have both attracted the support of tens of thousands and despite not hitting the highs of their respective sports, have very proud, individual histories and traditions. The history and traditions of sporting clubs are a huge reason why we find them so endearing and why they take up a huge part of our lives.

Bristol Sport threaten this at the moment by trying to create uniformity between City and Bristol. Already we've seen red appear on Bristol's traditional kit for no other reason than to be on brand, specifically, Bristol Sport's brand. This desire for one brand for two different clubs threatens who we are as clubs and our identities. If you read reviews of the new AG, specifically on  http://www.footballgroundguide.com , it is evident that visiting fans have no idea who plays at AG by just walking in. Simple things like a club crest here and there would go a long way, but it hasn't happened. 

I fear this dilution of both clubs into the vastly more prominent Bristol Sport will lead to a much more 'plastic' and soulless clubs with little differentiation with many other clubs of both codes, up and down the country.

In addition to this we have seen two similar size clubs to us, who I feel have less potential, in Huddersfield and Reading embrace reasonable ticket prices to build a fan base and fill their grounds. Reading's cheapest ticket is £20 (this also includes away fans) and Huddersfield are offering £179 season tickets. This also makes football more accessible and inclusive so the club can truly represent South Bristol and the wider area, rather than just those with a bit of disposable income. These ticket prices have not affected the clubs performances, as both are currently in the Play Offs and if Huddersfield win tonight, one of them will be in the Premier League.

However despite making savings behind the scenes, fans are not reaping the rewards, with fans of Bristol seeing a huge jump in prices between the 14/15 and 15/16 seasons, and this year is the first year I can remember where our cheapest Adult season ticket costs more than £300. 

Finally my criticism of SL extents to him being a tax dodger. Illegal or not it is clearly quite immoral when the NHS is on its knees, very few police and state schools are appealing to parents to fund their schools. He will still have wealth above and beyond what any of us can dream of so I cannot support his decision to be a tax exile at all.

For me I'd like to see Bristol Sport to be less prominent and just let Bristol City and Bristol Rugby be the clubs they are, working together but clearly different. In addition I'd like to see some fan representation at board level from both clubs to raise concerns about identity and accessibility of all kinds. 

But for now all I see is a man who just wants top flight football and rugby and doesn't understand that sport is so much more than simply success on the pitch. 

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4 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

So saints aren't a top 4 club and may never be. They have been the role model for many clubs, perhaps like BCFC with a new stadium within the city/ town and a brilliant academy.

But why are all the fans so p*****ed off?  Chairman called Kruger and an owner in Katherine Liebherr who never attends games but now knows her way to China in attempts to sell Hampshire's top club to the foreigners.

I hope we never see criticism of our owner and board next season like a lot of the nonsense posted here between January and March 2017. 

To be fair Katharina Liebherr inherited ownership of the Saints from her father when he passed away. But under that family's ownership they quickly went from league one to the premier league and established themselves there, and now they're reaching cup finals etc.

And she does attend games, she wrote a piece in the book Matches of the Millennium, detailing her fave games that she's seen at St.Mary's Stadium. And she is also present at testimonial games for ex Saints players. 

As for selling up to the Chinese, she was only selling a stake in the club, not the entire club, and that was to help make them more competitive in the premier league, under her control. You make it sound like she wants out.

Pity we haven't zoomed up from div 3 to the premier league in just three years like the Saints did under the Liebherr's....

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